Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Taken]

You know

You are

You know

You are starting to sound like a broken record.

Perhaps that is because you are doing my thinking and knowing for me. LoL

 

[Taken]

Does,you and your household, (Acts 16:31) mean if am saved my family will be too?

Some wish to prove from this text that when the head of a family comes to faith, he can be assured that his whole family will follow him in faith.

BOL follows the traditions his Church sets forth. It's the pride of the the church claiming the oldest, the first, the blah, blah, and hanging on to ancient Jewish customs, as if they are still in effect, or were ever in effect for a Gentile.

IF one considers the OT, and that ONLY men attended Temple, yes, when a man was active, followed the order in attending, and teaching what he learned to his wife and family, YES, when the man was forgiven, saved, the Spirit of God with Him, it followed down to the mans whole family.

While Christ Jesus was on earth, the Jews were learning something different from the old Covenant and Laws. It was not instant understanding. They still practiced their old traditions and laws.

Not every Temple had No women one day then was filled with women then next day.
Not like they got the memo over an internet!
The teaching was a drawn out process of a few disciples writing a few letters or appearing a few times in their city.

Imagine the people having 4,000 years of steeped religious history and then every Jew scattered across the lands, hearing this GREAT upset to their traditions, a couple of times....Gee...no wonder Paul had angry men in the crowds. Ha, look how angry BLO gets because people don't care about stepping backwards in Agreement with the teaching he follows after.

Inanutshell, agree with your disagreeing with BOL.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

...why it was so important for 8-day-old babies to be circumcised.

The foreskin circumcision was a TOKEN of Abraham of the old covenant And promise between God and Abraham and his descendants, until God circumcised their hearts.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Salvation is a one time event even in Catholicism.
Sanctification is a process.

Jesus said we must be born from above.
Once we accept baptism and our Lord, the concept is not to lose it with mortal sin.
Protestants have a misunderstanding with what you're saying because it sounds like Catholics are saved, then lost, then saved, then lost. This is not Catholicism.

Wrong.

The Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught that salvation is a process, whereby we cooperate with God's grace throughout our life by responding with faith and obedience.

The salvation we receive at Baptism is NOT the end of the story. This is why the Bible is clear about the phases of salvation.

We have been saved (Acts 2:38, Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

We are being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is the ongoing process of salvation – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

We WILL BE saved (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is our final salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

 

[BreadOfLife]

..........I'm right here, I haven't run anywhere. I just don't care about engaging in never ending arguments with the hard headed. Its not my job to persuade you or anyone else of anything.

And I'm not trying to poursuade YOU of anything.
As I have stated on numerous occasions, my mission here is simple:
To expose the lies and myths that people like you and your anti-Catholic buddies here like to spread so that others who are seeking the truth won't be seduced by those lies.

That's it. That's why you will never see me create a thread.
I simply respond to the lies. I'm not here to make friends OR enemies - just to expose lies.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is our final salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Mithraism, and the cult of Sol Invictus that descended from it, as can plainly be searched

not even a little bit Scriptural, except as strange gospel

but of course not being able to Quote "one can go to heaven when they die"
has never stopped a religious person before, i guess

 

[BreadOfLife]

The foreskin circumcision was a TOKEN of Abraham of the old covenant And promise between God and Abraham and his descendants, until God circumcised their hearts.

And a man could NOT be a true Jew according to the Covenant without being circumcised in the flesh.
So, there goes your argument against infant Baptism . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mithraism, and the cult of Sol Invictus that descended from it, as can plainly be searched

Then PROVE it.

What I stated comes straight from the Word of God (Matt. 24:13, 1 Cor. 3:12–15, Rev. 2:7, 2:26, Rev. 3:21) . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Uh huh - and that promise is CONDITIONAL.

God is not an idiot - not matter how much YOU want Him to be. He doesn't hand out guaranteed salvation to all those who cry out to Him and then fall back into a life of sin and disobedience. We must endure in faithfulness to the END.

Does,you and your household, (Acts 16:31) mean if am saved my family will be too?

Some wish to prove from this text that when the head of a family comes to faith, he can be assured that his whole family will follow him in faith. There is no such promise here. If you read these verses carefully you will see that the offer of salvation by faith in Jesus was offered to the jailer, and to his whole household. The message of salvation was proclaimed to the jailer, and his whole household. The message of salvation was believed by the jailer, and his whole household. And as the jailer professed his faith by being baptized, so did the others in his household. The offer was to the jailer and all of his household. The acceptance of this offer was by the jailer and his whole household, but there is no guarantee that this will always be so.

The words Paul spoke, when rendered literally, would read something like this: “You (singular) believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you (singular) will be saved, you (singular) and your household.” Paul is proclaiming the gospel to the Philippian jailer. He tells him that if he believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as his savior, then he will be saved. This offer is not for him alone, however, but for his whole household as well. If they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, they will be saved as well. The promise is not made that if he, as the head of the household believes, his entire household is saved by his faith.

Notice that in verse 32 Luke records that Paul and Silas preached the “word of the Lord” to him, along with his house. Verse 34 then informs us that the jailer had come to believe, along with his entire household.

The gospel is offered to the jailer, and to his household. The gospel is preached to him, and his household. The gospel is received/believed by the jailer and his entire household.

Note these words in Jeremiah 31: 29 “In those days they will not say again, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’ 30 “But everyone will die for his own iniquity; each man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge. 31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Ezekiel 18 is perhaps even more emphatic, separating the destiny of parent and child. A godly parent may have an ungodly (unsaved) child; an ungodly parent may have a believing and faithful child. The destiny of fathers and sons is independently determined.

In 1 Corinthians chapter 7 we are told that the unbelieving mate is “sanctified” by the believing mate (7:14), but note that they are still called an unbeliever. The issue here is not the salvation of one family member due to the faith of another, but the privileged status and blessing that the unbeliever has by living in the household of the believer. God’s blessings spill over on the rest of the family, but this does not include the blessing of salvation. Paul goes on to ask in verse 16, “For how do you know, of wife, whether you will bring your husband to salvation?” Paul is saying that it is best for the believing partner to remain married to the unbeliever, if they are willing for the believer to remain, because there are certain blessings which come upon the unbeliever. He goes on to say that if the unbelieving mate does not wish to remain in that marriage, the believer is to let them go, for how can they assume that they can bring the unbeliever to faith?
All of this is to say that the Bible has a very consistent answer to your question. Every individual is lost because of their sins, and is saved if and when they trust in Jesus Christ for their salvation. This is why our Lord speaks of “hating” one’s father, mother, brothers, and sisters:
26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27 “Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple (Luke 14:26-27).
We must love Him, obey Him, and serve Him, above all others, including those closest to us.
Does,you and your household, (Acts 16:31) mean if am saved my family will be too?

It means just what the Old Covenant meant about circumcision of infants.

The child entered the Covenant - NOT by his own choice - but by the faith of his parents. The Covenant includes the stipulation that this child was to be raised in the faith of his parents.

You ARE correct, however, regarding your last comment in RED.
We must cooperate with His grace by faithful obedience . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

Then PROVE it.

What I stated comes straight from the Word of God (Matt. 24:13, 1 Cor. 3:12–15, Rev. 2:7, 2:26, Rev. 3:21) . . .

so iow you don't know what the Word is yet either, see, just further evidence wadr.
your google aint broke, btw

 

[BreadOfLife]

so iow you don't know what the Word is yet either, see, just further evidence wadr.
your google aint broke, btw

No - my Google is working fine.
However - YOU are the one who made the asinine accusation - so the onus is on YOU to prove it.

As for the Word - I gave you no less that FIVE passages that prove you wrong.
Evidence is stronger that unsubstantiated attacks . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

John 3:5 is not a formula. It's a statement.

It's BOTH.

What do we see just 2 chapters earlier?? We see the Baptism of our Lord.
What elements are present?? WATER and the HOLY SPIRIT.

So you claim to BE born again, but not yet saved.
Disagree. Salvation is given, sanctification is accomplished, before the spirit is quickened.

And, as I already showed you - the Bible shows us the varying phases of the ongoing process of salvation:

We have been saved (Acts 2:38, Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

We are being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is the ongoing process of salvation – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

We WILL BE saved (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is our final salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Disagree with such method.
You did not call on the Lord, You gave no repentance, gave no confession.

Disagree. Forskin circumcision was a token to set men and their sons and their sons sons and so forth apart, as they would be partakers of the blessing of the Covenant God made with their fathers, to their fathers and their sons.

Heart circumcision was about faith, that God performed on His faithful, quickening their spirit.

Disagree. The role of a parents is to raise up their child in the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord, not call on the Lord "FOR" their kids who knows nothing that is going on.
Children Leave your parents, if you haven't learned about Lord, your choice to do so, if you have, your freewill to submit to Him or not.

Disagree. Men pronounce the Baptism, AFTER a man freely submits in heartfelt belief in God, and desire to call on Him in faithfulness.
The Lord does the Baptizing with His Holy Spirit.

Wrong on ALL counts.

Baptism was given to ALL members of a family - regardless of age (Acts 10:1-49, Acts 11:13-14, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16).

And, as I have already shown on multiple posts - the Early Church INDEED baptized infants and referred to the practice as being handed down by the APOSTLES:

Irenaeus
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen
"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]).
"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian of Carthage
"As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

Gregory of Nazianz
"Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood. From his most tender age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. Do you fear the seal [of baptism] because of the weakness of nature? Oh, what a pusillanimous mother and of how little faith!" (Oration on Holy Baptism 40:7 [A.D. 388]).
"‘Well enough,’ some will say, ‘for those who ask for baptism, but what do you have to say about those who are still children, and aware neither of loss nor of grace? Shall we baptize them too?’ Certainly [I respond], if there is any pressing danger. Better that they be sanctified unaware, than that they depart unsealed and uninitiated" (ibid., 40:28).

John Chrysostom
"You see how many are the benefits of baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins, but we have enumerated ten honors [it bestows]! For this reason we baptize even infants, though they are not defiled by [personal] sins, so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his [Christ’s] members" (Baptismal Catecheses in Augustine, Against Julian 1:6:21 [A.D. 388

Augustine
"What the universal Church holds, not as instituted [invented] by councils but as something always held, is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority. Since others respond for children, so that the celebration of the sacrament may be complete for them, it is certainly availing to them for their consecration, because they themselves are not able to respond" (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 4:24:31 [A.D. 400]).
"The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic" (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]).

 

[GodsGrace]

Wrong.

The Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught that salvation is a process, whereby we cooperate with God's grace throughout our life by responding with faith and obedience.

The salvation we receive at Baptism is NOT the end of the story. This is why the Bible is clear about the phases of salvation.

We have been saved (Acts 2:38, Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

We are being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is the ongoing process of salvation – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

We WILL BE saved (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is our final salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

I believe this is what I said.
Sanctification, or progressive justification, requires our cooperation.
Once we accept God's requirements for salvation, we must Continue with those requirements.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe this is what I said.
Sanctification, or progressive justification, requires our cooperation.
Once we accept God's requirements for salvation, we must Continue with those requirements.

Actually - this is what you said:
"Salvation is a one time event even in Catholicism."

This is incorrect and not what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[Taken]

And I'm not trying to poursuade YOU of anything.
As I have stated on numerous occasions, my mission here is simple:
To expose the lies and myths that people like you and your anti-Catholic buddies here like to spread so that others who are seeking the truth won't be seduced by those lies.

That's it. That's why you will never see me create a thread.
I simply respond to the lies. I'm not here to make friends OR enemies - just to expose lies.

LOL ~ funny.

 

[Taken]

And a man could NOT be a true Jew according to the Covenant without being circumcised in the flesh.
So, there goes your argument against infant Baptism . . .

LOL - what argument?

Circumcision of the foreskin didn't MAKE people a Jew...lol

Circumcision of the foreskin didn't MAKE a man saved or born again...lol

Circumcision of the foreskin didn't MAKE a person Baptized....lol

Circumcision of the foreskin is exactly what Scriptures said, and I said.

Circumcision of the foreskin was a TOKEN of the OLD covenant BETWEEN God and Abraham!
Gen 17:14

As usual you are way off base, and IF that is what you learned in Catholic Schooling....
You should go learn the truth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL - what argument?
Circumcision of the foreskin didn't MAKE people a Jew...lol
Circumcision of the foreskin didn't MAKE a man saved or born again...lol
Circumcision of the foreskin didn't MAKE a person Baptized....lol
Circumcision of the foreskin is exactly what Scriptures said, and I said.
Circumcision of the foreskin was a TOKEN of the OLD covenant BETWEEN God and Abraham!
Gen 17:14
As usual you are way off base, and IF that is what you learned in Catholic Schooling....
You should go learn the truth.

First of all -= NOTHING in the Old Covenant made a man born again.

Secondly - circumcision wasn't just a "token" of the Covenant - it was a REQUIREMENT of the Law.
It was a REQUIREMENT for entering into the Covenant.

Finally - Gen 17:14, which YOU referenced, says the following:
Gen 17:14
Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."

MUCH more than just a "token".
Do your homework, pal . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually - this is what you said:
"Salvation is a one time event even in Catholicism."

This is incorrect and not what the Catholic Church teaches.

Read my entire post again.
How many times, according to the Catholic Church, is one saved??
They are saved one time, and then that salvation must be maintained.

If one commits a mortal sin, which is not easy, it's the only way, according to the Catholic Church, that one becomes separated from God, which equals loss of salvation.

If one commits only veniel sins, which do not require confession, he remains saved.
In that case it's recommended that one confesses at least once per year, preferrably during the Easter time.

 

[Taken]

It's BOTH.

What do we see just 2 chapters earlier?? We see the Baptism of our Lord.
What elements are present?? WATER and the HOLY SPIRIT.

I am only interested in Jesus' Baptism...which has NOTHING to do with WATER.

Matt 3:11
....he (Jesus) shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and Fire.

Dude...your "so-called" Baby Baptism did nothing. The Lord doesn't Baptize with Water!

Jesus said;
John 3:5
EXCEPT a man be BORN of Water and OF the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Dude..."IF" you have NOT been SAVED, you are are not BORN of the Spirit of God.
Those things HAVE NOTHING to do with Water or "Works"! (That you keep saying are A Condition of Salvation). No they are not.

Jesus said;
Rom 10:9
"IF" thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, AND, believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thous SHALT BE SAVED.

Dude...Babies DO NOT make such confession!
Dude...WATER does not save you, give you the Holy Spirit, or Baptize you, or Give you Gods Seed to make you born again!

And, as I already showed you - the Bible shows us the varying phases of the ongoing process of salvation:

Salvation is an ACT of God, not an "ongoing" process.

A man Learning to perfect IN HIS WALK in the spriit is an on going process. And it is ONLY effected, AFTER a mans SOUL is Saved, and the mans SPIIRT is Born Again.

We have been saved (Acts 2:38, Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

Oh good grief, God gives men lots of gifts and blessings......they are NOT gifts OF Salvation.

Sheesh....going to school for 13 years is not a PROCESS of GRADUATION. It the mans kids process of LEARNING and then ONE TIME being given his diploma.....and wow along the way the kid has help.

Man goes through a process of Learning...God helps them along the way.....and WOW....like a Graduation....there is a ceremony a man can partake in and be dipped in water....and ooh rah....God has the prize...a Diploma....?? Huh, Huh? No, the gift of Salvation that a man has to reach out and take......just like a kid reaches out and take his diploma....just like Eve reached out and took the fruit.

If you didn't Reach out and Take your gift of Salvation....you don't have it.

And you surely were not BORN Again, Before receiving the Gift of Salvation OF your soul, From the Lord.

YOUR "so-called" Baby baptism was no more than a TOKEN, between your parents and God to raise you in the Word of God.......

Just like God accepted a TOKEN of Abraham's foreskin AS a TOKEN to keep the Conenant between Abraham and his descending sons.

We are being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is the ongoing process of salvation – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Complete gibberish, regarding application to ANY MAN WHO HAS become saved and born again.

You should pay attention to WHAT applies to a man WHO believes in the Lord, and WHO doesn't. MANY Jews do NOT believe..IN the Lord Jesus, as the Son of God...."THEY" have an ONGING forgiveness, still obey their laws, still have curse SIN laws, still are NOT savED,
Still MUST DO WORKS to become savED, according to THEIR LAWS...

WHY call yourself a Christian ... BUT THEN PRACTICE Jewish Laws?

We WILL BE saved (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is our final salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Jews WHO believe in God, but DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS, endure to the end, DUH!
THEY have to KEEP obeying their laws, traditions, customs, works SO AT THEIR END they WILL BE SAVED!

Good grief....don't you KNOW, you are NOT subject to what the Jews are Subject to?
Don't you KNOW they do not believe IN the Lord Jesus, the Son of God?
Don't you know they can not be SAVED until they have LIVED their whole life being OBEDIENT to their Laws?

Don't you KNOW, Christians HAVE ALREADY ACCEPTED Jesus Death, resurrection, Blood, forgiveness ONCE and Forever?

Don't you KNOW, ON THE CROSS, Jesus resurrected EVERY believer in HIM...FROM ALL the Curse Laws of Sin?

Don't you KNOW every man WHO IS FORGIVEN OF the Lord, can not sin....BECAUSE that man IS resurrected FROM everything that was called a SIN?

Don't you KNOW the Lords Spirit IS within the man and FOREVER Keeps the man IN BELIEF of the Lord?

Seriously, DO YOU NOT KNOW, the Lords Spirit Dwells IN a saved and born again man....and DUH...the Lord does not, can not DWELL IN SIN?

Wrong on ALL counts.

You are extremely ignorant, taught ridiculous things, and know not enough to go read for yourself what and only what applies to a man saved and born again.

Baptism was given to ALL members of a family - regardless of age (Acts 10:1-49, Acts 11:13-14, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16).

Oh good grief. You don't live 2,000 years ago when ONLY men went to Church and the families didn't.

Grow up, leave your mommy and daddy, and go be responsible for learning and doing what the Lord teaches applies to you.

And, as I have already shown on multiple posts - the Early Church INDEED

And you have repeatedly touted the Catholic Church being the "early Church".
So? They have been wrong for centuries?

Water never has given a man salvation or a born again spirit.

Water has been used by men,,, particularly Priests to wash, purify themselves....but then came Jesus, whose purification is FIRE, not Water.

baptized infants and referred to the practice as being handed down by the APOSTLES:

Why do you practice Jewish laws and customs?

 

[Taken]

First of all -= NOTHING in the Old Covenant made a man born again.

LOL - covenants do NOT birth a man a new spirit any more that water does...Duh!

There was a WAY for a OT man to be Saved and Born Again...

Secondly - circumcision wasn't just a "token" of the Covenant - it was a REQUIREMENT of the Law.
It was a REQUIREMENT for entering into the Covenant.

Yes it was a token. And gee, what a newsflash, if one did not participate in the circumcision, they were not included in the covenant... lol

Finally - Gen 17:14, which YOU referenced, says the following:
Gen 17:14
Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."

MUCH more than just a "token".
Do your homework, pal . . .

And straight off you should have challenged me and said that verse Gen 17:14 says nothing about a token......but you didn't.

Then you make the foolish remark...

[wasn't just a token]

No one said is was JUST a TOKEN...

It was precisely a TOKEN. God said!

Well whoops, the verse number was a typo...PALSY WALSY...

Gen 17: 11
...ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin
AND IT SHALL BE A "TOKEN" of the "COVENANT" betwixt me (God) and you (Abraham).

So, you are again in error.