Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[bbyrd009]

No - my Google is working fine.
However - YOU are the one who made the asinine accusation - so the onus is on YOU to prove it.

As for the Word - I gave you no less that FIVE passages that prove you wrong.
Evidence is stronger that unsubstantiated attacks . . .

why would i let a wolf interpret Rhema for me anyway, BoL?

which i guess you'll take wrong, what i mean is i don't pay too much attention to what Institutionalized Believers think Scripture is saying, no offense meant ok.
I have milk in my fridge!

 

[Taken]

I believe this is what I said.
Sanctification, or progressive justification, requires our cooperation.

Once we accept God's requirements for salvation,

It's DONE, Finished, Salvation is effected, given and received.

we must Continue with those requirements.

Requirements sounds LIKE 'WORKS".
There are NO WORK requirement to KEEP Salvation.

Works are rewarded if one does them.
And not rewarded if one does NOT do them.

Unless you are Jewish. Then they do not receive Salvation until the end of their lives, (enduring to the end); and "IF" they have kept believing in God (not Jesus), and "IF" they have done the Works ... to the end of their lives, "they WILL BE SAVED"...

BOL, is claiming to be a teacher of Catholic Christianity .... and imposing Jewish Laws, customs, teaching, as his basis, but calling it Catholicism. Weird.

 

[Heb 13:8]

God is not an idiot - not matter how much YOU want Him to be. He doesn't hand out guaranteed salvation to all those who cry out to Him and then fall back into a life of sin and disobedience. We must endure in faithfulness to the END.

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

It means just what the Old Covenant meant about circumcision of infants.

The child entered the Covenant - NOT by his own choice - but by the faith of his parents. The Covenant includes the stipulation that this child was to be raised in the faith of his parents.

Not by his own choice? So God is a rapist?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Read my entire post again.
How many times, according to the Catholic Church, is one saved??
They are saved one time, and then that salvation must be maintained.
If one commits a mortal sin, which is not easy, it's the only way, according to the Catholic Church, that one becomes separated from God, which equals loss of salvation.
If one commits only veniel sins, which do not require confession, he remains saved.
In that case it's recommended that one confesses at least once per year, preferrably during the Easter time.

Agreed, for the most part - except for your comment in RED.
It's not difficult to commit a mortal sin.

Mortal sin requires grave sin, knowledge of the gravity and full consent consent.
People commit mortal sins all the time.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL - covenants do NOT birth a man a new spirit any more that water does...Duh!
There was a WAY for a OT man to be Saved and Born Again...

No, there wasn't because there was no expiation of sin with the blood of animals.
Jesus was the perfect sacrifice - there was NO other.

Study your Bible . . .

Yes it was a token. And gee, what a newsflash, if one did not participate in the circumcision, they were not included in the covenant... lol
And straight off you should have challenged me and said that verse Gen 17:14 says nothing about a token......but you didn't.
Then you make the foolish remark...
[wasn't just a token]
No one said is was JUST a TOKEN...
It was precisely a TOKEN. God said!
Well whoops, the verse number was a typo...PALSY WALSY...
Gen 17: 11
...ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin
AND IT SHALL BE A "TOKEN" of the "COVENANT" betwixt me (God) and you (Abraham).
So, you are again in error.

And the Hebrew word used here is לאות, which means a "PROOF" or a "SIGN" - not a token.
Circumcision was a PROOF of entering into the Covenant with God, Einstein.

 

[mjrhealth]

And a man could NOT be a true Jew according to the Covenant without being circumcised in the flesh.
So, there goes your argument against infant Baptism . . .

whats that got to do with infant baptism, make up another story did we.

 

[Taken]

No, there wasn't because there was no expiation of sin with the blood of animals.

LOL.... speaking of the OT, the OLD covenant, Yes there was forgiveness of sin, and yes it was their offering of an animal, and the spilling of the animals blood for their atonement. And yes it was necessary to be repeated.

Jesus was the perfect sacrifice - there was NO other.

Try to stay in context. Jesus' revealing to men was under the New Covenant, with the offering of His BLOOD, once for permanent Forgiveness, and under the Old Covenant animal offering of it's blood, was repeatedly necessary.

Study your Bible . . .

Lol ~ You are the one out of context.

And the Hebrew word used here is לאות, which means a "PROOF" or a "SIGN" - not a token.

It was a token of the Covenent. If you need to change the Scripture, no surprise, that's you.

Circumcision

was a PROOF of entering into the Covenant with God, Einstein.

It was a token, but then nothing new, for you to change Scripture, then want to argue "your" words. Frankly, 'your words" have zero interest to me or effect on me.

 

[Taken]

whats that got to do with infant baptism, make up another story did we.

The more he talks, the more he reveals...he was taught to apply every part of Scripture to himself. The Old Covenant, the New Covenant, The Jewish Laws, The Consequences for violating Jewish Laws, etc. etc. And if it doesn't quite mesh together, well then Change the terms and argue about him changing the terms and he can scream you are wrong for not agreeing with his terms. LOL

The OT had clans, families, groups, and the NT with it's Tribes, families, groups, each SET APART. And "A" man was the HEAD of the Clan, the Tribe, who taught "THE" men "of" the Clan,, the Tribe, IN TEMPLE, and those men taught their wives and families, IN HOMES.

So ya, the MAN, the Head, ACTED on behalf of the his family, being what HE did and believed, was what HE effected within HIS own family.

Guess BOL didn't get the memo. The Clans, the Tribes have become scattered. Now there are Rabbi's Appointed by men, that do not speak FOR the clan, FOR the tribe. Individuals must CHOOSE to go and hear, IF they want to. There is no ousting out of the Clan, the Tribe, if they don't go and listen and do!

Seems, leave mommy and daddy; learn the knowledge in Scripture that applies to you;
Make your own declaration and confession, and KNOW what it means; has escaped BLO's understanding.

Daddy got my born again baptism OF the Holy Spirit (via WATER) FOR ME, and I don't remember it....doesn't fly.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit IS NOT BY WATER!
It is expressly by a man receiving the Seed of God, From God, By God, To the individual WHO confesses heartfelt belief TO the Lord.

The OLD Covenant is MOOT, for a man WHO has accepted that Jesus IS the Christ.
Catholic teaching, apparently doesn't teach this, or the students of Catholic teaching are confused in their understanding of knowing what applies to them and what doesn't.

BOL's teaching is APPLY everthing; and one has covered all the bases and hope its the safe bet...LOL....

Scripture however teaches to KNOW, and DO what applies to you, by knowing HOW to divide the word of truth.

It's weird. Preach the NEW....but don't forget to DO the OLD, that IS Passed away! Lol

God Bless,
Taken

 

[mjrhealth]

The OLD Covenant is MOOT, for a man WHO has accepted that Jesus IS the Christ.

The old covenant was mute for us gentiles any way, it was never given to us, People trying to live in the hold when they should be in the new.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

They try to mix the law with the Spirit and see what we get, religion at its worst.

 

[Taken]

The old covenant was mute for us gentiles any way, it was never given to us, People trying to live in the hold when they should be in the new.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

They try to mix the law with the Spirit and see what we get, religion at its worst.

That is correct.

Men are confused and speak with two mouths....oh, oh, I'm not under the Law...oh, oh, I am under the cursing sin of the law....lol

The FAIL of a Gentile to understand.....IS:
(Well for BOL, it is multiple things)...

But specifically....Truly heartfully BELIEVE in God, and His Word, called Jesus came among men in the Flesh, and gave His flesh body for the a man to have forever Life. That simple.

Hey...MAN, "IF" you do that....The Lord WILL forgive you, FOR NOT BELIEVING...Then He will GIVE YOU that promised FOREVER LIFE...
Then His Spirit will DWELL IN YOU AND KEEP YOU FOREVER Believing IN Him...

So WHAT SIN did a Gentile man DO BEFORE coming to the Lord in Confession?

NOT BELIEVE. And corrupted his inner soul, within his body. AND?
WHAT DID the Lord do, AFTER the mans confession?
FORGIVE the man!

Kill the body of sin, washed it, sanctified it, covered it with His LIGHT, remembers it's sin no more, justifies the body, keeps the body with Christ.....UNTIL the Lord shall call up that body to GLORIFY it.

AND Restored the mans soul.
And Circumcised the mans heart.
And Quickened the mans spriit, WITH Gods Seed.
And Forever dwells within the man.

So, WHAT SIN can such a man thereafter COMMIT....WITH a dead body, restored soul, spirit born of God, kept with Gods Indwelling Spirit?

ZERO!

But, but, but....what about all the Laws we hear about in Scripture....WHEN the Jews (disciples) are teaching the (Jews) ?

Exactly. What about them?
Gentiles were NOT the primary men being taught or SPOKEN TO, by Jesus' (the Jew, who came to SEEK the Lost Jews) and Jesus' chosen Jewish disciples to Learn His NEW Covenant, and go teach WHO? The Jews!

So ya, there was a lot of chatter ABOUT Sin.
The Jews were learning something DIFFERENT.....and we find, following after the disciples faded away in their own physical deaths.....the Jews went back to practicing the OLD Covenant.

And Paul, both a Jew and Gentile, who had the difficult task of teach Gentiles, something different? No, something NEW to them.

And today, we find men calling themselves born again Christians, all AMEN, accepting Jesus' ONE TIME OFFERING OF His Body, His BLOOD.....yet claiming they STILL SIN.

According to WHAT do they claim to STILL SIN? Jewish Laws!

Because the fact IS, IF they SILL are commiting SIN...they are STILL rejecting Belief IN GOD and His Word and that He restored their soul.... which was Precisely what the Lord Forgave them for rejecting.

It's a corrupt teaching...to claim the Lord FORGAVE, and then his forgiveness FAILED, because gee...He had no idea that His restoration of the their soul and quickening of their spirits and His own indwelling Spirit, was powerless to KEEP them sanctified!

LOL...

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Agreed, for the most part - except for your comment in RED.
It's not difficult to commit a mortal sin.

Mortal sin requires grave sin, knowledge of the gravity and full consent consent.
People commit mortal sins all the time.

So then protestants are correct in calling the Catholic Church a silly religion.
A rapport with God must have some type of continuity.
If I have a good relationship with God, and then commit a mortal sin, for instance miss Mass, and I died, I'd go to hell? So then what is my relationship worth? Why am I trusting in Jesus if my rapport with Him cannot save me?

Is Catholicism a yo yo religion then, as some accuse?
Saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost...................

How can I have a joyful and abundant Life if I fear for my salvation every moment?
If a mortal sin is so easy to commit, I'd be in constant danger.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So then protestants are correct in calling the Catholic Church a silly religion.
A rapport with God must have some type of continuity.
If I have a good relationship with God, and then commit a mortal sin, for instance miss Mass, and I died, I'd go to hell? So then what is my relationship worth? Why am I trusting in Jesus if my rapport with Him cannot save me?

Is Catholicism a yo yo religion then, as some accuse?
Saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost...................

How can I have a joyful and abundant Life if I fear for my salvation every moment?
If a mortal sin is so easy to commit, I'd be in constant danger.

First of all - simply "missing" mass isn't a sin.
Purposely refusing to go to mass when you know it is your required Sunday obligation with FULL knowledge and consent makes it sinful.

Don't forget - committing a mortal sin isn't "accidental". It is done with full consent and knowledge that it is a grave sin. It's like murder. Killing somebody in self defense isn't murder - BUT, killing a person with premeditation and malice aforethought IS murder.

When you commit a mortal sin, you are saying that you KNOW this will cut you off from God's grace and do it anyway.
You can always repent - but if you sinned just because you knew you could go to confession - your repentance and contrition is NOT genuine, rendering your absolution worthless. However - if you are truly repentant, God will always forgive.

This is hardly a "yo-yo" religion scenario.

 

[BreadOfLife]

whats that got to do with infant baptism, make up another story did we.

Apparently, you didn't read the posts prior to this one, as usual . . .

 

[Taken]

First of all - simply "missing" mass isn't a sin.
Purposely refusing to go to mass when you know it is your required Sunday obligation with FULL knowledge and consent makes it sinful.

Don't forget - committing a mortal sin isn't "accidental". It is done with full consent and knowledge that it is a grave sin. It's like murder. Killing somebody in self defense isn't murder - BUT, killing a person with premeditation and malice aforethought IS murder.

When you commit a mortal sin, you are saying that you KNOW this will cut you off from God's grace and do it anyway.
You can always repent - but if you sinned just because you knew you could go to confession - your repentance and contrition is NOT genuine, rendering your absolution worthless. However - if you are truly repentant, God will always forgive.

This is hardly a "yo-yo" religion scenario.

Where in Scripture are these "so called" sins written ?

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL.... speaking of the OT, the OLD covenant, Yes there was forgiveness of sin, and yes it was their offering of an animal, and the spilling of the animals blood for their atonement. And yes it was necessary to be repeated.

Try to stay in context. Jesus' revealing to men was under the New Covenant, with the offering of His BLOOD, once for permanent Forgiveness, and under the Old Covenant animal offering of it's blood, was repeatedly necessary.

WRONG.
If there was true expiation for sin in the Old Covenant, there would have been NO need for Jesus. The sacrifices offered to God were IMPERFECT. Only Jesus was the PERFECT sacrifice (Heb. 10:14).
Heb. 8:7
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

STUDY your Bible . . .

It was a token of the Covenent. If you need to change the Scripture, no surprise, that's you.
It was a token, but then nothing new, for you to change Scripture, then want to argue "your" words. Frankly, 'your words" have zero interest to me or effect on me.

The only one "changing" Scripture here is YOU.
As I already educated you - the word used here לאות, means a "PROOF" or a "SIGN" - not a token.

Circumcision was a requirement for entering into the covenant with God.
I'll make it easy for you: Show me ONE example of a person in the OT who refused to be circumcised and was welcomed into the Jewish Covenant with God and I'll drop the subject..

 

[BreadOfLife]

Where in Scripture are these "so called" sins written ?

Which "so-called" sins?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Where in Scripture are these "so called" sins written ?

Regarding Mortal Sin - John refers to it as “deadly sin” (1 John 5:16).

Direct violations of the 10 Commandments which are contrary to the Church’s moral teachings or contrary to Scripture might include: murder, envy, abortion, artificial contraception, adultery, fornication, stealing, hatred, heresy, drunkenness, drug abuse, gossip, intentionally missing mass, and many others.

Jesus gave His Church the power to forgive sins or hold them bound (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:18, John 20:22-23).

 

[Taken]

Where in Scripture are these "so called" sins written ?

Purposely refusing to go to mass ...sinful.

murder....commiting is a mortal sin.

this will cut you off from God's grace

You can always repent

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

So then protestants are correct in calling the Catholic Church a silly religion.
A rapport with God must have some type of continuity.
If I have a good relationship with God, and then commit a mortal sin, for instance miss Mass, and I died, I'd go to hell? So then what is my relationship worth? Why am I trusting in Jesus if my rapport with Him cannot save me?

Is Catholicism a yo yo religion then, as some accuse?
Saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost...................

How can I have a joyful and abundant Life if I fear for my salvation every moment?
If a mortal sin is so easy to commit, I'd be in constant danger.

 

[Taken]

Regarding Mortal Sin - John refers to it as “deadly sin” (1 John 5:16).

Direct violations of the 10 Commandments which are contrary to the Church’s moral teachings or contrary to Scripture might include: murder, envy, abortion, artificial contraception, adultery, fornication, stealing, hatred, heresy, drunkenness, drug abuse, gossip, intentionally missing mass, and many others.

Sin under the OT Laws WAS, man AGAINST Gods Law, WAS, man AGAINST God, ie A SIN.

Sin under the OT Laws WAS, ALL SIN WAS AGAINST God, ie ANY violation of the LAW, ie a SIN.

Sin under the OT Laws HAD, Consequences FOR the SINS, AGAINST God.

Sin under the OT Laws WAS, Man Against Man, ie A SIN.

Sin under the OT Laws WAS, Man Against Man, HAD, Consequences For the Sins of man against man.

Under the NEW Covenant ~ ANY man WHO,
WAS AGAINST GOD, in Disbelief, WHO submitted to the Lord IN BELIEF, Has BEEN FORGIVEN ALL of His SINS Against God.

Such man IS CLEANSED FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

Such man IS REDEEMED FROM ALL CURSE SINS "OF THE LAW".

Such man HAS the power to FORGIVE other men OF the "other mans" Trespasses Against him. <--- THAT is between ONE man and another man.

Men do not have the Power to Forgive Sins Against God. <--- THAT is between ONE man and God.

Jesus gave His Church the power to forgive sins or hold them bound (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:18, John 20:22-23).

THE "CHURCH" is not a building, or appointed clergy. The Church is within the individual WHO has the power to or not to Forgive INDIVIDUALS who trespass against the One.

You have given for "supposed" Saved men...declaring "they" are the ones in Violation of the "Law", by not attending Church.

What is their consequence?

You have given for "committing murder" by "supposed" Saved men....a delcaration they have SINNED.....Against WHO?

Apparently God....since you further declared their consequence WOULD BE BY GOD, for them to be CUT OFF FROM GOD.

You give a Declaration and Consequence FOR a Saved man; that Scripture does not.

All saved AND born again men CAN NOT SIN.
Their SIN was NOT believing IN the Lord.
Once they DO, they can NEVER AGAIN, NOT believe in the Lord.
Their SIN affected their SOUL.
The Lord restored their SOUL, that it CAN NOT EVER not believe in the Lord.

1 John 3:9

There IS NO SIN consequence Lodged AGAINST SUCH MAN. THE Lord REDEEMED the man FROM the Consequences of SIN Against God.

Gal 3:13

Men are to forgive men their trespasses against such man.

Luke 17:3

You follow under the OT LAW.

I follow under the Word of God. My Sin against Him is forgiven, period.
There is NO consequence for past Sins of Disbelief and Past commission of Sins Against God.
There is NO future sins Against God, I am capable to commit. Not by my Power, but by Gods Power, to Keep me unto Him only.

I certainly CAN Trespass against men, and men Trespass against me. It is not SIN, and either man can settle the remedy with forgiveness and reparations between themselves. And IF there ARE consequences beyond what can be resolved between the two; that is NOT a SIN consequence; but usually a CIVIL consequence.

Murder is a trespass of one man against another man.

Your teaching and your Church still operate under OT LAWS, sins, consequences, hope you can endure in obedience to the Laws until your ending, so you hope to be saved.

I was never under the OT Laws, nor am now.
I am under the NEW Covenant, and Have already received my Forgiveness, Salvation,
Cleansing, Sanctification, Uncorruptable Seed from God, a quickened spirit, His Indwelling Spirit, direct communication with MY Lord, My God.

While you wait and wonder and continue to SIN....I have elected to be IN Chirst and be Assured to Trust He is Faithful and what He gave me is accomplished.