Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hey Breadman, I didn't think you'd answer right away.
You have to go to your guru for answers, right?

 

[Taken]

The answer is simple...We are not yet "Born of God"....we ARE born of the Spirit.

1 John 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ IS BORN OF GOD.

To keep saying that we cannot sin....does not make it true.

Sure it does. It's true in Scripture. And I believe it is true. So, for me it is true.

Sin is not ACCOUNTED to us...but every time we miss the mark...it is sin.

What exactly is "THE MARK"?

To say that we do not sin...make a person look stupid, with fairy dust in their eyes.

I didn't say 'WE". I said 'whosoever" And I said "I"

1 John 5:18
Whoseoever is born of God sinneth not.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God cannot sin.

Oh and here is Jesus; BORN OF GOD.
1 John 5:1

Thanks for sharing; John "looks stupid" to you. "And"Whosoever is BORN OF GOD.....does sin!

Obviously I disagree.

The only COVERING that we wear is Christ....nothing of our own doing.

Jesus is the True Light.
Sin is darkness.
You are teaching darkness can over come the light.

We, in and of ourself , still sin. Period.

Where is the list of what IS SIN?
Surely you know?

 

[Taken]

[QUOTE="BreadOfLife[/QUOTE]

That's a GREAT question.[/QUOTE]

So GREAT, that you couldn't answer it!

Funny.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever
How did David know it would be forever?

As long as we cooperate with God's grace (Matt. 7:21-23, Matt. 23:37, Matt. 25:31–46, Luke 13:34, Rom. 8:28, 2 Cor. 6:1, Rev. 3:15-16) - we WILL dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So GREAT, that you couldn't answer it!
Funny.

Because I'm NOT the one who believes in that garbage - YOU do.
I've been asking YOU guys for over 2000 posts to show me where the BIBLE teaches OSAS - and NOBODY has been able to do that . . .

 

[Helen]

Time out
I have to go to the dentist
We'll pick this up when I get back
Won't be long

Make sure that you tell us how it went!
It is not my favourite thing to do!

 

[Taken]

How dense ARE you??
I already explained that to you as I would to a small child.

I said:

Initial salvation.
Maintaining salvation through enduring faith.
Final salvation.

I taught this to 2nd graders preparing for their First Communion - and they ALL got it . . .

That's too bad. You should have taught them the truth.

Salvation is received as a gift from God.
Faith is received as a gift from God.
Gifts received from God are kept by the Power of God...1 Pet 1:5

 

[Helen]

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God cannot sin.

And I said "I"

Easy...either the bible is not true, or you are not truthful. I wonder which...now let me think...
It cannot be both.

The way I see you slashing at BOL with scripture , everyone else here can see that you do still sin. Your whole attitude is sin...you do not "Love your brother ..and you don't count him as a brother, then you do not love or your neighbour as yourself.
Gal 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,gentleness, self-control."

For someone who claims not to sin, you sure do show a lot of hostility and readiness to attack or confront. Not quite what is expected of a sinless christian showing the love of God. Hummmm

If you claim that you do not sin, then you are totally deluded.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's too bad. You should have taught them the truth.

Salvation is received as a gift from God.
Faith is received as a gift from God.
Gifts received from God are kept by the Power of God...1 Pet 1:5

Here is what 1 Pet. 1:5 says in CONTEXT, Einstein:
1 Pet. 1:3-55
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who THROUGH FAITH are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

We have HOPE - IF we continue in FAITH.
A gift is not forced on ANYONE or it is not a gift . . .

 

[Helen]

@Taken
Though we are called to holiness of life Matthew 5:48)and commanded to love the Lord our God with every fibre of our being Matthew 22:36-40, none of us do so perfectly.
The standard is God and we all miss the mark. It would be a grandiose delusion to believe that we can attain the perfection God requires of us.

The idea of perfectionism undermines the idea of Christ’s constant intercession for the believer!!
Hebrews 7:25 tells us that he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. The need for intercession is because sin is apparent in the life of the believer. If we all can reach a point of sinless perfection, there would be no need for our Heavenly Intercessor in heaven!!.

Philippians 3:12-14
"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
And you set yourself above that...that you have attained sinlessness???

To reduce sin to nothingness by claiming perfection ultimately call God a liar.

 

[APAK]

True believers KNOW they do not practice sin to the point of enjoying it and making it a lifestyle. And they also KNOW that are NOT considered sinners by God. They are born of (the spirit of) God. They hate sin and always want to run away from the idea of sinning if they could forever, as they walk in the spirit of God. Believers are the FIRST to be convicted of sin whenever it occurs in their soul and body. The world calls them sinners, God says NO they do not! The mature believer understands all these words very clearly and the sinless life is in their grasp.

Unbeliever ignore these words as they do not BELIEVE in Jesus, the Christ.

Immature believers cover up or are confused with constant wrestling over these words written above concerning sin. They still want to go back and get counsel from the 'old man' of the world that is already crucified within them. The old counselor tells them they are always SINNERS! as everyone else in the world. They stay in an immature state of confusion.

Unbelievers love to divide and conquer as they befriend and use these immature believers as they condemn the faithful mature ones, and laugh.

Get off the dime and mature in Christ, and not just say that you believe and follow Christ in words all day long. Walk the walk in the spirit, beyond the basic assurance to eternal life; trusting more and adding more faith in the new spirit to maturity.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

As long as we cooperate with God's grace (Matt. 7:21-23, Matt. 23:37, Matt. 25:31–46, Luke 13:34, Rom. 8:28, 2 Cor. 6:1, Rev. 3:15-16) - we WILL dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

So you are OSAS, is that correct?

 

[Helen]

I've been asking YOU guys for over 2000 posts to show me where the BIBLE teaches OSAS - and NOBODY has been able to do that . . .

What I believe:- ( and I do believe in OSAS My first 20 years as a believer I believed it hung on works...the last 35 yrs I have believed OSAS)

"He saved us, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy...that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:5-7) And again, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become the children of God-who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, but of God." (Jn.1:12-13) And again, "For by grace are you saved through faith, and THAT not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Eph.2:8-9) And again, "So then, it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace." (Rom.9:16; 11:5-6)

For the longest time I struggled with the verses that we all know..trying to reconcile both sides of the argument..but then, at last I made a big leap of "faith" (actually, desperation) and just CHOSE to believe that once a person has been born again he or she is secure for ALL ETERNITY--period!

I had found myself unable to rely on a so-called "Heavenly Father" who was a double-talker that hated almost everyone and loved almost no one.
Nor did I desire to relate to a heavenly father that "loved" me and had chosen to hate most other people...including at least some of my (now deceased) family and friends!! I had to settle thing with God...we cannot trust and love someone who we see as untrustworthy.

Paul knew he could be disqualified from his high calling. (1 Cor.9:26-27)
But missing the high calling in Christ, is not the same as missing salvation.
Salvation is solid, sure...our high calling is what we press toward every day of our Christian life to make solid.
I am by no means perfected, obviously. But I have experienced healing of my soul, and a great rust in God that is beyond anything I ever imagined would happen. What a wonderful word PEACE is.. because I now know My Heavenly Father is a Restorer at hearts.
Joy unspeakable and full of glory...

I am not trying to persuade you....just saying where 'I am' on this, re the OP thread on OSAS.

Bless you...Helen

 

[Heb 13:8]

If you're talking about following listing - your failure is an ignorance of not only Scripture - but of its linguistic implications.

Well that's the thing. You're looking at the Gospel through teh wrong lense, works and not grace.

Gal 2:16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith ind Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

 

[pia]

Joy unspeakable and full of glory..

This entire post is such a blessing, and anyone surely, even a ten year old can understand this.....Surely nothing can bring us that wondrous peace and joy if we still think He will reject us....It is a difficult thing to try to live as He asked us to, if we always think we are not enough, that we haven't done enough, that we haven't studied enough and so on....My point being that HE is enough, for now and for all time....The Bible tell us that God was satisfied with His sacrifice, and that He became the propitiation for our ( mankind's) sins....It ought not be as confusing as many make it out to be, nor as burdensome....Nor should it EVER create fear in a person...fear is of the devil, and we are told that perfect Love casts out ALL fear, not some fears, ALL fear......None of this is rocket science but some seem to take joy in making it as difficult as at all possible, as if God would have chosen such a way ?
Jesus is quoted as saying :" Come to Me, you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest..Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am lowly and humble in heart and My yoke is easy and my burden light."
Now how could anyone possibly equate any of the religions demands and requirements with this statement alone ? Everything we read in the Bible is about how He alleviated people of their burdens, whether physical or spiritual, while He usually always had to correct the religious of His day.....Nothing has changed in that respect, that much is clear today...

 

[GodsGrace]

Easy...either the bible is not true, or you are not truthful. I wonder which...now let me think...
It cannot be both.

The way I see you slashing at BOL with scripture , everyone else here can see that you do still sin. Your whole attitude is sin...you do not "Love your brother ..and you don't count him as a brother, then you do not love or your neighbour as yourself.
Gal 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,gentleness, self-control."

For someone who claims not to sin, you sure do show a lot of hostility and readiness to attack or confront. Not quite what is expected of a sinless christian showing the love of God. Hummmm

If you claim that you do not sin, then you are totally deluded.

Amen!
I second that emotion!

 

[GodsGrace]

Gal 2:16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith ind Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

You're going to have to explain what the works of the law are because there's a lot of misunderstanding about this.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Taken
Though we are called to holiness of life Matthew 5:48)and commanded to love the Lord our God with every fibre of our being Matthew 22:36-40, none of us do so perfectly.
The standard is God and we all miss the mark. It would be a grandiose delusion to believe that we can attain the perfection God requires of us.

The idea of perfectionism undermines the idea of Christ’s constant intercession for the believer!!
Hebrews 7:25 tells us that he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. The need for intercession is because sin is apparent in the life of the believer. If we all can reach a point of sinless perfection, there would be no need for our Heavenly Intercessor in heaven!!.

Philippians 3:12-14
"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
And you set yourself above that...that you have attained sinlessness???

To reduce sin to nothingness by claiming perfection ultimately call God a liar.

Great post!

 

[GodsGrace]

Time out
I have to go to the dentist
We'll pick this up when I get back
Won't be long

Did we pick this up?

 

[GodsGrace]

And I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever
How did David know it would be forever?

The LORD IS my shepherd.

As long as the LORD or Lord IS your shepherd, you definitely have the blessing to believe that you will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

If He stops being your shepherd, you're in trouble.
But, of course, you don't believe this is possible.