One Creed to live by and die for...
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@Enoch @Christophany @amigo de christo @Keturah @Wrangler @face2face @Michiah-Imla @Episkopos and others are all welcome to add in
They me start and get more into the OP. The OP is just the intro...the bold move forward is now bein g attempted and about to begin with your help.
I do not know exactly how to proceed that will get the best bang and experience etc, so let me go with this in discussing more of the theme of the thread.
By addressing the existing Creeds of the 2nd century and on and then some how by analyzing them, showing their progression and why they were changed over time- as a first major objective. And as a second major objective, how close or far away they became from the Creed in the OP and other key statements not stated yet by me, or anyone else, given by the Son of God, drawn exclusively from scripture.
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God's portion of the creed:
Hear, O Israel: Our God YHWH—YHWH [is] one!
And you have loved your God YHWH with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.(Deuteronomy 6:4-5) (LSV)
The Son's portion of the creed:
(including the son's or lord's prayer to his Father, and for us before the Kingdom was realized through his reborn/resurrection by his Father)
Need to add more in this part with essential beliefs of the Son and for us as believers
-----------------------------------------------
There are essentially 4 historical Creeds used by MS Christianity starting in the 2nd century AD. Jump in anytime for corrections and errors and improvements....
1. The Apostles Creed of 140-175 AD,
2. The Nicene Creed of 325 and 381 AD,
3. The Athanasian Creed of 382 - 542 AD,
4. and the Chalcedonian Creed of 451 AD
.....yes this can be some work, although it can educate the minds of many, including myself.
It can answer the question why are creeds or the one creed so important to our spiritual growth and lives
They me start and get more into the OP. The OP is just the intro...the bold move forward is now bein g attempted and about to begin with your help.
I do not know exactly how to proceed that will get the best bang and experience etc, so let me go with this in discussing more of the theme of the thread.
By addressing the existing Creeds of the 2nd century and on and then some how by analyzing them, showing their progression and why they were changed over time- as a first major objective. And as a second major objective, how close or far away they became from the Creed in the OP and other key statements not stated yet by me, or anyone else, given by the Son of God, drawn exclusively from scripture.
------------------------------------------------
God's portion of the creed:
Hear, O Israel: Our God YHWH—YHWH [is] one!
And you have loved your God YHWH with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.(Deuteronomy 6:4-5) (LSV)
The Son's portion of the creed:
(including the son's or lord's prayer to his Father, and for us before the Kingdom was realized through his reborn/resurrection by his Father)
Need to add more in this part with essential beliefs of the Son and for us as believers
-----------------------------------------------
There are essentially 4 historical Creeds used by MS Christianity starting in the 2nd century AD. Jump in anytime for corrections and errors and improvements....
1. The Apostles Creed of 140-175 AD,
2. The Nicene Creed of 325 and 381 AD,
3. The Athanasian Creed of 382 - 542 AD,
4. and the Chalcedonian Creed of 451 AD
.....yes this can be some work, although it can educate the minds of many, including myself.
It can answer the question why are creeds or the one creed so important to our spiritual growth and lives
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Behold
Well-Known Member
I see you still haven’t found:
“Jesus is God”
Sure i did.
John 1
"The Word was God".
"Jesus is the WORD made flesh".
> Deity of Christ.
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ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
If that’s what you conclude, that’s a private interpretation.
And If this were true, the Apostles would have sounded like you and your partners in their inspired writings.
I’m familiar with the Apostles voices, but your voice sounds foreign to me.
“And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” (John 10:4-5)
I’ll speak of God and Christ the way they did in scripture.
“If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” (1 Peter 4:11)
The 1st official creed was first published just over 70 years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and some minor teaks were added/edited in. I do not know whatthe version is below.
The Apostles Creed
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, Our Lord;
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary;
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell;
On the third day he rose from the dead;
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;
From thence he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
The holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
-------------------------
As in this Creed and others born well after the time of Christ, a group of men got together to pen then consensus ideas of their important elements of their belief.
Were they all under the guidance of the Spirit of God. Most would not be in my estimation. Some were....
Notice they did not use the Shema daily cry of adoration and love for their God, their Father. At least they began by establishing the fact that the Father was their ONLY God.
I also see in their writings they make another section for the Holy Spirit below the actions of the Son. They tended therefore to separate this Spirit from the Father's Spirit...
These men were clearly a type monotheists and Monotarianism was their core belief for sure, save the Spirit of God as separate from the Father. They believed in one, cardinal one God the Father, as the only creator of all, including his Son. This is a big statement to make. Although the complexion of this Creed would change drastically, as we all should know.
The Apostles Creed
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, Our Lord;
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary;
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell;
On the third day he rose from the dead;
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;
From thence he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
The holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
-------------------------
As in this Creed and others born well after the time of Christ, a group of men got together to pen then consensus ideas of their important elements of their belief.
Were they all under the guidance of the Spirit of God. Most would not be in my estimation. Some were....
Notice they did not use the Shema daily cry of adoration and love for their God, their Father. At least they began by establishing the fact that the Father was their ONLY God.
I also see in their writings they make another section for the Holy Spirit below the actions of the Son. They tended therefore to separate this Spirit from the Father's Spirit...
These men were clearly a type monotheists and Monotarianism was their core belief for sure, save the Spirit of God as separate from the Father. They believed in one, cardinal one God the Father, as the only creator of all, including his Son. This is a big statement to make. Although the complexion of this Creed would change drastically, as we all should know.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
My advice
And that is simply this , I used to be able to quoate a lot of things that were true , BUT I WALKED IN DARKNESS .
Just cause a person knew about the gospel and about the godhead , I lived in darkness . PUT THE FEAR OF GOD into the peoples .
This gringo knew and could quoate things verbatum , BUT LIVED FOR THIS WORLD and its lusts . I was a devil worse than most
yet would have been called a top solider of GOD by this sold out generation . WE better get back in the BIBLE
and make sure THAT JESUS is the one we been following and a LOVING . THAT GOD is the one we been following and a loving .
FOR MANY love lies and pleasures and love to sit under the massive many who have twisted scrips to suit their own lustful desires .
AND my , me oh my , I DONT want folks to be a DOING THAT . I DID , but as i said many in churches
would have been calling me a TOP SOLIDER OF THE LORD . That oughtta tell us all something . Yeah i said it .
First about myself , my OLD SELF , and about the CHURCHES OF TODAY . MANY WALK IN DARKNESS
they can quoate some truths but THEY KNOW NOT NOR LOVE THE TRUTH AT ALL .
my advice to all is simply this and this alone . Now i hope it stirs all up to get back in those bibles for themselves .
And that is simply this , I used to be able to quoate a lot of things that were true , BUT I WALKED IN DARKNESS .
Just cause a person knew about the gospel and about the godhead , I lived in darkness . PUT THE FEAR OF GOD into the peoples .
This gringo knew and could quoate things verbatum , BUT LIVED FOR THIS WORLD and its lusts . I was a devil worse than most
yet would have been called a top solider of GOD by this sold out generation . WE better get back in the BIBLE
and make sure THAT JESUS is the one we been following and a LOVING . THAT GOD is the one we been following and a loving .
FOR MANY love lies and pleasures and love to sit under the massive many who have twisted scrips to suit their own lustful desires .
AND my , me oh my , I DONT want folks to be a DOING THAT . I DID , but as i said many in churches
would have been calling me a TOP SOLIDER OF THE LORD . That oughtta tell us all something . Yeah i said it .
First about myself , my OLD SELF , and about the CHURCHES OF TODAY . MANY WALK IN DARKNESS
they can quoate some truths but THEY KNOW NOT NOR LOVE THE TRUTH AT ALL .
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Stick to ER WORD of the bible and never look back . GOD IS HIS WORD and let the KING BE PRAISED .
APAK has stated......throughout this thread
"Now for those that think that Yahshua is also God, ".............
"Nothing changes because you and others do not want to learn God's word.".........….....
"The word ‘God’ was added into this verse deliberately in a few translations to say that God was Jesus who was revealed in the flesh. The KJV lead the way.".....................
"God’s truth and plan of salvation was revealed with his word of, and through a man called Jesus whom God himself created, as the last Adam.".......................….
"The man was not God, although what was in him. it was his Father’s Spirit."........
".......let's learn more about our lord and savior shall we. About a role that many do not want to admit he performed as it does not make him sound or look like an equal of god or god himself.".....................
"It says that Jesus was a powerful prophet, and by strong implication, served his God by speaking and doing God's own word(s) or he obeyed his commands. And of course the verse also is saying Jesus is not God!".........
"Jesus was CHOSEN by God to be his prophet. Again, by obvious deduction, Jesus cannot be God.!"...................
"His role and perfect execution as the Son and prophet of God made him our savior today..amen!".............
"As in this Creed and others born well after the time of Christ, a group of men got together to pen then consensus ideas of their important elements of their belief."
"Were they all under the guidance of the Spirit of God. Most would not be in my estimation. "......................
Still waiting on your explanation of this PERSONAL comment to me !
"True, and it won't be defined as you define it either. And why do you capitalize word? This answer can explain a few things I already know of you.
I decline to engage with you in light of your denial of the deity of Jesus Christ's being God and your denial of the HS inspired word of God. Seems to me YOU wish to usurp his authority as did another.......look where his future lies!
"Now for those that think that Yahshua is also God, ".............
"Nothing changes because you and others do not want to learn God's word.".........….....
"The word ‘God’ was added into this verse deliberately in a few translations to say that God was Jesus who was revealed in the flesh. The KJV lead the way.".....................
"God’s truth and plan of salvation was revealed with his word of, and through a man called Jesus whom God himself created, as the last Adam.".......................….
"The man was not God, although what was in him. it was his Father’s Spirit."........
".......let's learn more about our lord and savior shall we. About a role that many do not want to admit he performed as it does not make him sound or look like an equal of god or god himself.".....................
"It says that Jesus was a powerful prophet, and by strong implication, served his God by speaking and doing God's own word(s) or he obeyed his commands. And of course the verse also is saying Jesus is not God!".........
"Jesus was CHOSEN by God to be his prophet. Again, by obvious deduction, Jesus cannot be God.!"...................
"His role and perfect execution as the Son and prophet of God made him our savior today..amen!".............
"As in this Creed and others born well after the time of Christ, a group of men got together to pen then consensus ideas of their important elements of their belief."
"Were they all under the guidance of the Spirit of God. Most would not be in my estimation. "......................
Still waiting on your explanation of this PERSONAL comment to me !
"True, and it won't be defined as you define it either. And why do you capitalize word? This answer can explain a few things I already know of you.
I decline to engage with you in light of your denial of the deity of Jesus Christ's being God and your denial of the HS inspired word of God. Seems to me YOU wish to usurp his authority as did another.......look where his future lies!
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Stick to every WORD o GOD in that bible .
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
It’s absolutely astounding what religion does to people.
They divide over things not EXPLICITLY stated in the Holy Bible.
Astounding!
If only this scripture existed to convince me:
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is
They divide over things not EXPLICITLY stated in the Holy Bible.
Astounding!
If only this scripture existed to convince me:
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ God?” (1 John 2:22)
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Try telling that to the all inclusive lovey do false generation and leaders .
WHO Now report to their churches that GOD IS LOVE and every religoin is of him and fine and we all daddys kiddos .
EVERY OTHER RELIGOIN DENIES JESUS AS THE CHRIST . SO Yeah , try telling that to the false love generation
that knows neither GOD nor LOVE andrather love their ears tickeld by an ANTI CHRIST RELIGION
that DENIES THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE ON CHRIST AS THE CHRIST .
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
It’s dualism, which allows one to shake off the shackles of logic. True that Jesus being the Christ (of God) is the central message of the NT does not divert their attention from the mutually exclusive claim that he ALSO IS.
Your advice aye...Writing some trash here I see. Finally I'm seeing what is behind the mask you wear.
And I would get off my high horse in the process as I read your ridiculous post. It is pure nonsense.
One of your favorite lines is that 'we better get back in the Bible.' Evidentially you do not want to yourself and maybe do not know how.
Are you not interested in how the Creed you believe in came about? And how it is different from scripture?
You might learn something new.
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For those that are suddenly deathly afraid to read and understand scripture especially regarding its alignment or grossly mis-alignment with their personal Creed of Christianity, here's an historical fact regarding how the Holy Spirit became yet another 'person' of God and not of the Spirit of the Father, the one person God as it was believed previous to this time since Christ.
Concisely put, from about 374 AD the Cappadocian 'Fathers' developed on their own, a new theology stating that the Holy spirit was yet another person of the Godhead/Godhood. It passed the political, cultural and heavily Greek influenced religious test and climate of that time, and in 380 AD the Roman Emperor Theodosius outlawed Arianism and inserted the three persons in one Godhead religion. And in less that 6 years the 3rd person became part of the orthodox god-hood gang.
Now you know the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would often say at the end of his speaking sessions.
I would copy and paste this one and research it for yourself so to ensure it is not just another fake news conspiracy theory, just another wild tall tale told by a nobody of any consequence.
Concisely put, from about 374 AD the Cappadocian 'Fathers' developed on their own, a new theology stating that the Holy spirit was yet another person of the Godhead/Godhood. It passed the political, cultural and heavily Greek influenced religious test and climate of that time, and in 380 AD the Roman Emperor Theodosius outlawed Arianism and inserted the three persons in one Godhead religion. And in less that 6 years the 3rd person became part of the orthodox god-hood gang.
Now you know the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would often say at the end of his speaking sessions.
I would copy and paste this one and research it for yourself so to ensure it is not just another fake news conspiracy theory, just another wild tall tale told by a nobody of any consequence.
face2face
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You seem to jump from manifestation to duality - how do you do that?
Simple. The Bible reveals clearly that Jesus of Nazareth was (and is) FULLY GOD AND FULLY SINLESS MAN at one and the same time. So God the Word who existed from eternity past took human form and became Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews and the Savior of the world.
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face2face
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@everyone, for decades I've had these conversation and found it's very rare for a Christian to address the Bible’s exclusive emphasis on Jesus’ humanity. Most will say they accept the
humanity of Jesus in addition to his alleged deity, but Scripture says nothing of this position.
What's sad, is the work God achieved in his son, relates to the nature of Christ and its the one place
Christians refuse to look.
Rather than turning to the Apostles they adopt the reasoning of vain men.
Mosheim says:
"The doctors who were distinguished for their learning explained the sacred doctrines
after the manner of Origen on whom they fixed their eye - in accordance with the principles
of that philosophy which they learned in their youth
at school, namely, the Platonic philosophy as corrected by Origen.
"Those who wish to get a full insight into this subject may examine Gregory Nazianzen
among the Greeks and Augustine among the Latins who were regarded in the
subsequent ages as the only patterns worthy of imitation, and may be fitly styled, next
to Origen, the parents and supporters of philosophic or scholastic theology. They were
both admirers of Plato.
It frustrating because the Christian believes in their heart they are speaking to the Word
of God but they are actually speaking to Platonic Doctrines.
F2F
humanity of Jesus in addition to his alleged deity, but Scripture says nothing of this position.
What's sad, is the work God achieved in his son, relates to the nature of Christ and its the one place
Christians refuse to look.
Rather than turning to the Apostles they adopt the reasoning of vain men.
Mosheim says:
"The doctors who were distinguished for their learning explained the sacred doctrines
after the manner of Origen on whom they fixed their eye - in accordance with the principles
of that philosophy which they learned in their youth
at school, namely, the Platonic philosophy as corrected by Origen.
"Those who wish to get a full insight into this subject may examine Gregory Nazianzen
among the Greeks and Augustine among the Latins who were regarded in the
subsequent ages as the only patterns worthy of imitation, and may be fitly styled, next
to Origen, the parents and supporters of philosophic or scholastic theology. They were
both admirers of Plato.
It frustrating because the Christian believes in their heart they are speaking to the Word
of God but they are actually speaking to Platonic Doctrines.
F2F
face2face
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Explain that nature to us Enoch? Show us from the Bible how a man can be held under death's dominion - condemned to die! and possess divine nature simultaneously? A nature which can't be tempted by evil, in a nature that can! Maybe you have a section in Hebrews or Romans you can take us to?
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