One taken to heaven and the other left to face the Tribulation...

[n2thelight]

Jesus points out that is the reason the angels are here. Paul says the church will leave respectfully. The sheep being separated from the goats, and the harvest of the wheat, involves Angels, and slightly more hands on and physical. That is why no one "sees" the Second Coming correctly. They do not see how Jesus' teachings fit into Revelation. At the Second Coming Jesus, the 144k, and the angels are going over the whole earth gathering the sheep and the wheat as Jesus taught. This is not a battle scene. This is going on during the Trumpets and Thunders. It will take months, even years. Satan nor the FP have even begun. The first thing Satan is allowed is not until the 5th Trumpet. He is allowed to release his own angels from the pit, they have been bound in for thousands of years. The FP is not even revealed until the 7th Trumpet when Satan's angels are once again defeated and once again cast out of heaven.

The Second Coming is not at the end. The Second Coming and rapture happen before the 7th Seal. Then the Trumpets start.

No No NOOO!!

That can't be as the 7th seal trump and vial happens at the same time ,ie, The Day of the Lord.

 

[n2thelight]

0

So, Jesus will kill you to remake you if He returns today and you are alive?

What method will he use to kill you and your loved ones?

Again the flesh will die, period!!!! Those alive at His return will simply be changed … Not understanding why you keep saying He's gonna kill us .

 

[Truther]

Again you not understanding, scripture just gave you all these answers ,let's do this again

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

People have been dying since we were made flesh.

Here's the point of the matter ,all will not have died(sleep) , whichever way death may come, meaning some will still be alive when Christ returns

Those who have died are with Christ at death that's who He brings back with Him at His 2nd coming
Guess I'm still not understanding what you talking about

What do you mean by beheading and the rest of that list?

I think we agree that some in a generation will be caught away to escape death...like Enoch?

There are some that think every saint must die first.

 

[Truther]

0


Again the flesh will die, period!!!! Those alive at His return will simply be changed … Not understanding why you keep saying He's gonna kill us .

No, the flesh will be changed, not die. This process will be skipped for some at the rapture.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



We shall go from life to life.

Not, life to sleep to life.

 

[Davy]

You aren't answering me.

No, how is Jesus going to kill you and your loved ones at his return if he returns today?

But I did answer you, just not how you wanted.

 

[Davy]

The Second Coming starts the Judgments it does not "swoop in" at the end. The Lamb on earth is going to be present during these worse of times. That is what Jesus teaches us.

So says man's doctrine, but not The Word of God.

On the 6th Vial, Jesus is still... warning His Church that He comes "as a thief". He doesn't come until the 7th Vial, which is the final day of this world when God's cup of wrath is poured out upon the wicked (Revelation 16:15-17).

 

[Davy]

I have seen a couple who do see the 6th Seal as the Second Coming. Most look at you funny when you say that and walk away.

The 6th Seal is not the 7th Trumpet. A Seal is a Seal, and a Trumpet is a Trumpet, and they are not the same event.

The events of the 6th Seal do... reveal Christ's coming at the end also, so does the 7th Trumpet, and so does the 7th Vial.

Now that ought to serve as a 'wake-up' Message from The LORD in His Book of Revelation, because it's not how man want's the order to be according to numbering that counts there; it's the type of EVENTS prophesied that matter, just as it is in all The Word of God. Jesus gave only 7 main Signs in His Olivet discourse, and they are the same seven Signs in His Revelation, just expanded. The very last Sign He gave was that of His coming and gathering of His saints.

It's those who like to practice occultism and mysticism that are drunken on numerology and sequences.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I agree there is no 7 years, but also there is no "reign of antichrist" either.

Satan is given 42 months, and that is not even a complete 3.5 years, depending on days in a month. That is considered the greater tribulation, because Satan will either be the best friend or the worst enemy to those on the earth. Satan does not kill those who refuse the mark, just makes life miserable. Revelation 13, says he can only kill those who refuse to worship him or the FP. Now it happens that those who refuse the mark more than likely refuse to worship as well. There may be some who compromise and take the mark, but still refuse to worship. Those individuals will be killed by Satan and still go to the Lake of Fire. Worshipping Satan comes first, even before the image and mark are introduced.

There is no antichrist "lead up" to the Second Coming. The Second Coming happens and judgments from God. Satan is the lawless one in 2 Thessalonians 2, not a human. One of the judgments let's Satan unlock the pit and free his own fallen angels. Then the FP comes on the scene, and then an image is made. That is the order of the Second Coming, not some Hollywood event or some interpretations that miss the mark completely.

Well, I respect your right to an opinion, but feel that the Antichrist has been taught since the beginning of the Church. The "man of sin" is clearly taught by Paul in 2 Thes 2, and this is based on the "Little Horn" of Dan 7, who is clearly a human king, in my thinking.

But you have to make up your own mind on this. What we both agree on, however, is that the Church will not be immune from this time period.

 

[Randy Kluth]

So you really believe that Rev 6 happened in the last 2000 years?

I suppose it depends on what part of ch. 6 you're talking about? John begins to talk about the future right after talking about the 7 churches in Asia Minor. He was to prophecy about things "after this."

So my assumption has to be that he began to speak, in ch. 6, about things that immediately began to happen. Ultimately, John spoke of the 3.5 years of Antichristian rule.

So when the 4 horsemen went out, they may have represented things that would happen all the way up until the time of Antichrist.

Did it finally subside into a world of peace, with few skirmishes worldwide?

Can you find this time of world peace in the book of Rev. as Christ returns to it in it's condition?

You'll have to explain what "world peace" you're talking about? What biblical prophecy are you here referring to?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes the Jews were dispersed.

Then they have been regathering per the Prophets.

Do the Gentiles or Jews rule the city of Jerusalem now, especially since Trump officially made it the capital of Israel?

So, the times of the gentiles are fulfilled before our eyes, giving way to this....


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


....Which has not happened in history yet.

OK, I see where we're having some disagreement. You think the liberation of Jerusalem in '67 somehow meant the end of Gentile rule over Jerusalem? Yes, I've heard this for years, particularly after Hal Lindsay's book came out, "The Late Great Planet Earth." His focus was on a supposed countdown to Christ's Pretribulational Coming, due to its being imminent now that Jerusalem has been released from Gentile oppression.

The error in this idea is in the equation of relative freedom from Gentile bondage with a complete and final deliverance of Jerusalem promised by the Prophets. They prophesied that the age of Israel's suffering would come to a complete end with a final judgment against the Gentiles who oppress Israel. That has not happened yet!

Not only so, but the Prophets predicted this "final salvation of Israel" would mean a complete end to the Jewish Diaspora, which has not been completed yet. As well, Israel would become a godly nation again, which also has not happened yet.

The deliverance of Jerusalem in 1967 was only a partial deliverance, since the issues of a Palestinian State remains at issue in the UN. Intefadehs have continued since '67, and the world is still railing against Israel, claiming their possession of all Jerusalem is "illegal."

So no, the oppression of Jerusalem has not yet ended. We are just seeing signs of Israel's final liberation, yet to come. I would agree with that!

 

[Timtofly]

So you agree with me that the living saints will be caught up without having to die first?

Yes. Instantly changed.

 

[Timtofly]

No No NOOO!!

That can't be as the 7th seal trump and vial happens at the same time ,ie, The Day of the Lord.

That is only an interpretation. Where does John say they all happen at the same time? They do not even happen the same way. They do not even do the same thing, for the same reasons. It is like saying the super bowl, the gator bowl, and the rose bowl are the same event, but looking at it in different ways. They have to be the same event, they all have a football.

 

[Timtofly]

So says man's doctrine, but not The Word of God.

On the 6th Vial, Jesus is still... warning His Church that He comes "as a thief". He doesn't come until the 7th Vial, which is the final day of this world when God's cup of wrath is poured out upon the wicked (Revelation 16:15-17).

The warning is for the church now.

Do you think Jesus is literally going to say those words in verse 15, during the vials being poured out? Is your claim the church is going to gather with Satan to cheer the winning side?

 

[Timtofly]

The events of the 6th Seal do... reveal Christ's coming at the end also, so does the 7th Trumpet, and so does the 7th Vial.

Now that ought to serve as a 'wake-up' Message from The LORD in His Book of Revelation, because it's not how man want's the order to be according to numbering that counts there; it's the type of EVENTS prophesied that matter, just as it is in all The Word of God. Jesus gave only 7 main Signs in His Olivet discourse, and they are the same seven Signs in His Revelation, just expanded. The very last Sign He gave was that of His coming and gathering of His saints.

It's those who like to practice occultism and mysticism that are drunken on numerology and sequences.

So your obsession with the numbering does not count?

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. The 7th Trumpet is Satan being cast out of Heaven. The 7th vial is an earth quake and Jerusalem is divided.

The 7th Seal is silence in heaven.

The 6th vial is Satan gathering his army.

The 6th Seal is humans asking the mountains to hide them or kill them.

None of these things even go together.

The battle of Armageddon is not even during the 7 Seals, the 6 Trumpets, the 7 Thunders, nor the 7 vials.

 

[Timtofly]

Well, I respect your right to an opinion, but feel that the Antichrist has been taught since the beginning of the Church. The "man of sin" is clearly taught by Paul in 2 Thes 2, and this is based on the "Little Horn" of Dan 7, who is clearly a human king, in my thinking.

But you have to make up your own mind on this. What we both agree on, however, is that the Church will not be immune from this time period.

Satan is the being alive for this whole time. The church is immune to Satan. Those who join Satan are not the church. Satan was working before Christ. The church by this time should be aware of Satan's deception. Not many seem to be. They have their opinion, and just think I am voicing mine. My opinion is God's Word. Not sure why pointing out facts, is just an opinion. Must be the way life is in a 24 hours a day News world. No one can tell fact from opinion any more.

No single antichrist was taught in Scripture. John said many antichrists would come. No one can even agree on who Christ is, much less a person claiming to save the Jews from the bondage of other nations.

You may accept who Christ is. Does not mean 100% of the world does.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Satan is the being alive for this whole time. The church is immune to Satan. Those who join Satan are not the church. Satan was working before Christ. The church by this time should be aware of Satan's deception. Not many seem to be. They have their opinion, and just think I am voicing mine. My opinion is God's Word. Not sure why pointing out facts, is just an opinion. Must be the way life is in a 24 hours a day News world. No one can tell fact from opinion any more.

No single antichrist was taught in Scripture. John said many antichrists would come. No one can even agree on who Christ is, much less a person claiming to save the Jews from the bondage of other nations.

You may accept who Christ is. Does not mean 100% of the world does.

Brother do you even hear yourself? You're obviously getting puffed up.

You say, "The church by this time should be aware of Satan's deception. Not many seem to be. They have their opinion, and just think I am voicing mine. My opinion is God's Word."

Holy Cow! Is this arrogant or what? The Church is ignorant, and your word is equal to God's Word? I have a major red light going off. Nobody should believe someone who says, "Trust me--I'm God's word for you. Don't trust anybody else."

So your word is spiritual, and the rest of the world, including the Church, is just a "24 hours news cycle?" In equating the Church with the unsaved world you do a terrible disservice to God, and slander the real Church.

No, we're not perfect, but many of us hear God at least as much as you, if you even hear God at all. My thought now is that you hear God in part, and in part are puffed up and failing to censure yourself against possible pride and error.

You say, "Satan was working before Christ." Have you considered that Christ was alive well before Satan even existed, that he existed as the Word of God before Satan was even created an angel of God?

Holy Cow! You need someone to counter your arrogant attitude, and bring you back down to earth. You think?

 

[n2thelight]

No, the flesh will be changed, not die. This process will be skipped for some at the rapture.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.



We shall go from life to life.

Not, life to sleep to life.

You still not understanding. Put it like this, those who have died throughout all of time have changed and are in Heaven ,in other words they have put off the flesh only those alive at His return will not taste a physical death, ie , flesh, as they will be changed .

The fact remains , Christ will not return until that time,(7th trump 7th seal and 7th vial) period!!!

satan comes at 666 before the return of Christ. there is NO rapture in between

 

[n2thelight]

So your obsession with the numbering does not count?

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. The 7th Trumpet is Satan being cast out of Heaven. The 7th vial is an earth quake and Jerusalem is divided.

The 7th Seal is silence in heaven.

The 6th vial is Satan gathering his army.

The 6th Seal is humans asking the mountains to hide them or kill them.

None of these things even go together.

The battle of Armageddon is not even during the 7 Seals, the 6 Trumpets, the 7 Thunders, nor the 7 vials.

You have it all screwed up, Paul even told ya ,that Christ will not return until after satan is revealed

 

[Davy]

The warning is for the church now.

Do you think Jesus is literally going to say those words in verse 15, during the vials being poured out? Is your claim the church is going to gather with Satan to cheer the winning side?

And now you show you doubt... what Jesus said on that 6th Vial timing as written...

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

Jesus gave that to point to the timing of His return to gather His Church. He gave that warning to His Church. In Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is where He first used that "as a thief" metaphor for the day of His coming to gather His Church. Put all that together there, and it means His coming to gather His Church is on that 7th Vial timing. It's easy.

But you don't listen to Him there. You listen to something else, since you deny that Scripture as written.

 

[Davy]

So your obsession with the numbering does not count?

That's just it, I'm not the one obsessed with numbering order in Revelation, but my post was about the more important matter of 'event' recognition. Thus you just made up baloney just the opposite of what I said.

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming. The 7th Trumpet is Satan being cast out of Heaven. The 7th vial is an earth quake and Jerusalem is divided.

The 6th Seal (2nd part) is the day of Jesus' coming to gather His Church on the "day of the Lord". There are other Scriptures which links that day of God's cup of wrath with the gathering to Christ; Revelation 16:15-17 is one of them. 2 Thessalonians 2:8 is another.

The 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe timing of Revelation 11 is about the day of Christ's coming and beginning His reign with His elect, and the rewards handed out to His elect. Saying that is when Satan is cast to earth to begin his reign is to mock that Rev.11:8 Scripture...

Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."
KJV

Satan is cast down to the earth with his angels for the time of "great tribulation", which happens within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing, which is PRIOR to the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe. You can count on those last 3 trumpet - woe periods being in order.

The 7th Seal is silence in heaven.

The 6th vial is Satan gathering his army.

The 6th Seal is humans asking the mountains to hide them or kill them.

None of these things even go together.

You simply revealed the error of thinking I was talking about with being stuck on the sequence of the written order in Revelation, instead of grasping the link between the 'events'.

Cup of wrath on the 6th Seal = .......................day of Jesus' return.
7th Vial cup of wrath & battle of Armageddon = day of Jesus' return.
7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe = ...............................day of Jesus' return.

The 7th Seal is actually a completion of all the Seals.

The battle of Armageddon is not even during the 7 Seals, the 6 Trumpets, the 7 Thunders, nor the 7 vials.

Fact is, the battle of Armageddon happens on the day of God's cup of wrath poured put on the wicked, which is the "day of the Lord" timing when Jesus comes "as a thief". Both Apostles Paul and Peter showed the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night", and the final day of this world is the day they were pointing to with that. It is the day Jesus pointed to for His coming also, "as a thief". If one cannot grasp that simple metaphor He gave "as a thief" which is an anchor to show the day of His coming, then they must have cobwebs in their head.