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Featured Paper Money and Fiat Currency is the Mark of the Beast

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by gaviria.christian, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of leaning on others, I decided after reading Revelation that there was much I didn't understand, so I went to look for a book about it. I was very disappointed when I realized the author knew less than I did. I checked the bibliography to see what his sources were; and they were almost exclusively other books by men with their interpretations.

    The author had not obeyed the commandment to seek first the kingdom. He seldom quoted the Bible unless it was explicitly about prophecy. Only the "prophetic" seemed of interest; and that determined what books he read and how he thought.

    I decided to read it again slowly -- and I found all kinds of new connections with parts of the Bible few people would think might have a bearing on Revelation. I found they helped explain Revelation, and Revelation helped explain them. I also saw a wonderful consistency in how the authors of the Bible used "symbols." It took me quite a while since some days I managed to get through only one or two verses.

    Speaking of the carnal, I had to research what "grass" meant when reading Revelation. I had read the rest of the Bible; but to be honest, the passages about grass had gone right my head. I found that "man" is compared to grass. What Jesus said about the mustard seed gained new meaning -- first a herb, then it becomes a tree. Of course, I think John was talking about the same thing when he wrote about grass and trees. I even began to read Genesis in a new day. There is something about man that is very much like grass; and when I read "grass" in Genesis, I think it can mean both physical grass and the part of man that can be described as grass.

    Then there is this wonderful verse about how God can help us grow as grass -- and I infer it's so we can become trees and not wither as the grass.

    Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
     
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  2. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    John in his day, would think that EVERYTHING that WE take for granted, is a miracle.

    How do you know WHAT John saw in the visions given to him? If he saw planes, trains and automobiles, or audible and visual communications of great distances, or bombs and rocket fire FROM OUT OF heaven,...what could he compare it to, by those things that existed in the 1st century in which he lived???
    NOTHING! Nothing at all!!
     
  3. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    ^ 1st century after Christ.
     
  4. A_Man

    A_Man Active Member

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    The 666 talents of gold were gold and not fiat currency, so yoru theory doesn't fit.

    But if you ever got paid in fiat currency and received it or paid for the computer you typed this on, would that mean you are eternally damned?

    How would using money mean that you actually indulged in real idolatry. I don't think you are damned for this, but you must have some really messed up conscience issues if you believe this.

    But I am wary of this economic system we are in that depends on usury, inflation, and has governments printing money. Our current financial system-- our money at least-- reached its current state in the '70's. That's not really long enough to know if its going to work out well. It seems like a long time to us because we lived during this time, and aren't looking back over history.
     
  5. A_Man

    A_Man Active Member

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    I don't like canned spinach. I like spinach, but canned spinach just tastes evil--gooey much that tastes like a can. Should I create a thread on why canned spinach is the mark of the beast?

    It's nasty stuff, but it doesn't fit the Biblical description of the mark of the beast, so I won't post it.

    First century Jews and Christians might have debated if they should coins with emperors on them that were worshiped as gods. Many of us use money that says 'In God We Trust' that has symbols on it that were adopted by the masons after they were developed by the government.
     
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  6. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I take him at his word when he uses the word "miracles."

    So you think John made mistakes! We know so much more today than he knew then. Isn't it great to feel he was ignorant? Oh for shame to think we're so superior. Should we cross out "miracles" and add "fake miracles" into Revelation?

    Maybe Elijah used nuclear bombs when he called down fire from heaven but the people who wrote about it were as ignorant as John and thought it was a miracle. Maybe Moses also had nuclear bombs?

    Numbers 16:34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
    35 And there came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.


    What kind of faith do you have anyway? Do you think neither God nor the Dark Side can perform miracles, that everything has to be explained in physical terms? Call me naive if you want; but I think John meant "miracles" when he wrote "miracles." I would not wish to add or to take away from what he wrote.

    Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


    Try keeping things simple. If the text says "miracles," read "miracles" and don't be second-guessing John. For the record however, there are times when prophets know they don't understand what they're seeing or know they lack adequate words to describe them; and they say so, using phrases such as "like unto" or "as it were." If John had seen a nuclear bomb and lacked words to describe it, he would written something like "as if." John clearly knew people were not standing on "glass" when he wrote thus:

    Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

    It would be daft to think they were standing on a "sea of glass" but it is what it looked like. John knew that although that's what it looked like, that's not what it was. We err then if we think we know more than John because we had the advantage science.
     
  7. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Good point.
    I think you're right to be wary of the current economic system; but that doesn't make me leap to conclusions.
    It might work out. Popeye the Sailor could be the beast that comes out of the water!
     
  8. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Your religious glasses are still on!
     
  9. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Its not about the numerically written nunmber 666 in any way. The number 666 in Revelation IS A REFERENCE, for us to go find it in God's word.
    Clue #1- it is the number of a man
    Clue #2- it has to do with wisdom
    Q. What man had wisdom, and was involved with the number 666? (KJV only).
    A. 1 Kings 10:14- king Solomon.

    Again, the number of itself IS NOTHING.
    It has no religious meaning whatsoever!! It is just an event/situation that took place in Solomon's life.

    So then, what should we be looking at in 1 Kings 10:14?[14] Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold.
    > From the Queen of Sheeba (her government), she gifted 666 talents of gold to Solomon in one year.

    In our terms of today: in the period of one year, those who take the mark of the Beast, shall freely receive (gifted) an income from the goverment.

    Q. What is UBI, "Universal Basic Income"?
     
  10. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    That's no real answer to anything, just an attempt to dismiss me.
    Was I discussing 666 with you? You may not like what I have to say to you about this. You shock me by dismissing 1 Kings 10:14 as having no spiritual meaning.

    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    The Bible is not a book about trivial earthly affairs. If an earthly matter is described in the Bible, it was included because it also has a spiritual meaning. It is meant to teach us spiritual truths. We need to seek "doctrine" in all Scripture. We may not always be able to find the doctrine in every passage; but we should still seek it and not dismiss it as unimportant. I now consider you an misguided person who rejects the authority of Scripture. The ball is in your court now if you will accept the reproof for having such an attitude towards the Bible.
     
  11. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    I had this same kind of problem. I use parts of the Book of Revelation at times as God has given me some things, but there was and is much of it that still reads at best fuzzy to me. So a couple of years ago I bought a set of two books which covered only the Book of Revelation. I read a bit over ½ of the first volume slowly carefully and like you I found little which gave me more than I already had. I never have finished reading them. I guess I will one day.

    Mostly now in addition to my own reading, I gain from sometimes reading carefully through what people on forums such as this believe and write. I don't usually participate, not because I agree or disagree with them but because I am fuzzy on the subject. What I do get sometimes from such readings or studies is cross references in the scriptures themselves that had not previously occurred to me.


    I have not gone through all of the symbols. Some symbols I know from personal usage especially regarding other places in the Bible but there are certainly some that I do not. Perhaps that one day of going through the whole commentary as well as through Book of Revelation is coming soon for me. It would be a long in depth study but if that is what God requires, I will find the time.

    Thank you for your input on this. I cannot start it today as I am involved in several other things, and tomorrow I'll be out of town all day, but perhaps as soon as Tuesday I will give it new start. I will be praying about it in the interim.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
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  12. gaviria.christian

    gaviria.christian Member

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    What is your question?
     
  13. gaviria.christian

    gaviria.christian Member

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    The Torah commands, "you shall have righteous balances and weights", which fiat currency is not, because paper money was first issued to represent gold when people were forced to turn in their gold, then was devalued, then the backing of gold was removed, which then became fiat currency, which then left people chasing mere names and numbers through an imaginary value, a false weight and a false number, the "mark of the beast". Someone intelligent understands this and how "666 talents of gold" relates to this financial system, but idiots will perish unaware that a great thievery has been committed through this form of money and that it impoverishes the world through it.
     
  14. A_Man

    A_Man Active Member

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    I don't see how your theory equates with being 'intelligent.' Have you actually read the book of Revelation?

    Revelation 14
    9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    Do you think the poor people, that first generation, who used paper money when the government decided to take it off the gold standard were damned? Do you think the angel in this verse said, "How dare you be the victim of a government that stole your gold and turned your money in fiat currency. As punishment for being a victim, you will be damned for all eternity."

    Have you got any verses that say that the people who get scammed in the marketplace with an unjust weight all go to Hell? Maybe a verse in the Old Testament that says that people cheated by merchants who use false weights get the death penalty at least? Why would the victims be tormented for all eternity? How is that interpretation 'intelligent.'

    My wife was actually discovered someone who had a false weight. We were buying some lengkeng (longan) in a country that had fiat currency. It was during the fasting month, too. The vendor was selling them for so much a kilo. My wife had a weigh of testing it-- maybe a kilo from another vendor, and called him out on it. He said he couldn't make money with a normal weight. His prices were below market. I heard the story and I was thinking she should have told him that he'd probably be better off not fasting and use just weights. Do you think all his victims who unknowingly bought his fruit are going to Hell for it?

    Notice how the passage above associates taking the mark of the beast with worshipping his image. Those who take it partake in idolatry. They aren't just victims of an unjust weight.

    And if I were to agree with you that fiat currency were an unjust weight, why would that make it the mark of the beast. There are a lot of laws in the Torah. What if someone posted that wearing flax mixed with wool is the mark of the beast, or that moving one's neighbor's boundary stone is the mark of the beast, or that being murdered (a victim of 'thou shalt not kill' as opposed to a victim of unjust weights) are the mark of the beast. Why would whatever sin you want to pick out of the Torah be the same thing as the mark of the beast? It makes no sense.

    As far as 666 goes, Solomon collected gold, not fiat currency. He was wise, and the country was filled with gold and silver during his reign.

    Before you go around implying that you are intelligent and that those who disagree with you are idiots, maybe you should actually read what the Bible has to say on the topic you are posting on. You should also consider whether calling someone an 'idiot' is akin to calling someone 'raca' or 'thou fool' as we see on the sermon on the mount.

    If governments fiat currency is great thievery that impoverishes the world, that does not prove that it is the mark of the beast. Personally, I would like to see currencies begged to a basket of commodities, not just gold, and not fiat currency. I can agree with being against fiat currency. But I do not agree that being a victim of it damns you.

    Did you ever address my point. Have you ever used fiat currency? Do you consider yourself damned to be tormented for all eternity for doing so? How did you pay for the computer you are using.
     
  15. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Reproof? I'm misguided?
    .
    Here is a scriptural edification for you, on the source of understanding ALL doctrine, concerning God's word:
    Isa. 55
    [8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
    [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    John 16[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into ALL truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    .
    So, when you can think His thoughts and know His ways, about His meaning of His OWN words, and not your own, then and only then will you have the sound doctrine(s) of HIS truth.
     
  16. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    You are able to see that fiat money has replaced gold, and paper checks evolved to symbolze fiat money, but what you are not seeing, is that
    digitized money (Bit-Coin etc.) is going to replace ALL OF IT!
    In that new economic paradigm, fiat money, gold and checks will be outlawed and not redeemable, unless converted into "digital money".

    What does UBI, "Universal Basic Income" mean to you?
     
  17. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    So in essence, in the near future, people will be spending their "hard earned numbers" and not their "hard earned cash".
     
  18. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    You were the person who said the 666 was an earthly thing. I reminded you the Bible is about spiritual things. I'd say you need to seek more truth from God instead of dismissing a passage from the Bible as being about only some earthly thing.
     
  19. gaviria.christian

    gaviria.christian Member

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    Yes, I have read the book of Revelation, otherwise how would I have known about the mark of the beast? And yes, even the poor are cursed by fiat currency, which is why the mark of the beast is issued to everyone, great and small, and rich and poor, which has been fulfilled through fiat currency. There is also no such thing as eternal torment. The lake of lava will destroy both body and soul, meaning ceasing to exist. And 666 talents of gold relates to all the names of fiat currencies that exist today, which were formerly names of weights, such as "pesos", "pounds", "dollars", etc, which were used to measure gold, and after paper money was issued to represent gold, then devalued, then the backing of gold was removed from paper money, which is when it also became fiat currency, it left people buying with mere names, "dollars", "pesos", "pounds", which no longer had anything to do with weight nor gold, as if people began buying with the mere name "talent", which is the "name of the beast", and people were also left buying and selling with mere numbers, through modern banking, the "number of the name".
     
  20. gaviria.christian

    gaviria.christian Member

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    People are already spending hard earned numbers, through banking and debit cards.
     
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