Parable Of The Unmerciful Servant

[CoreIssue]

Again this seeing grace as a commodity. We can easily grieve the Spirit. When the Spirit is chased away...the grace goes too. You can't have a non-spiritual grace that has no presence of God.

Grace isn't like a coin we put in our pockets. Nobody owns grace. Grace is how God puts us into a spiritual race...how we equips us to overcome sin and the world.

But we can easily fail grace...just by treating His gift as a commodity. We can easily frustrate the purpose of God by trying to exploit His gifts.

If the gift can be taken back it is not a gift, so not grace.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Exactly. That price may include mental, spiritual, and physical anguish and torment.

My point here, Enoch, was that if they are "paying a price," this insinuated they would be paying for their own sins, which the parable suggests from the outset that they cannot.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Grace that is cancelled? Rescinded? Is that really grace?

Certainly. A king gives grace to a servant who owes a debt. That is really grace. The servant goes out and shows no pity on his fellow servant, and so greatly angers the king by this that he rescinds the grace. Your supposition, Mark, is that the grace is only real if it is irreversible, and that doesn't seem to hold weight in light of several passages of scripture including this one.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[CoreIssue]

Certainly. A king gives grace to a servant who owes a debt. That is really grace. The servant goes out and shows no pity on his fellow servant, and so greatly angers the king by this that he rescinds the grace. Your supposition, Mark, is that the grace is only real if it is irreversible, and that doesn't seem to hold weight in light of several passages of scripture including this one.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

First of all, this was Old Testament.

Second, the debt forgiveness was condition, as was a reality in the Old Testament.


Third, nobody was born again in the Old Testament. They could only be judged righteous, which they could lose.

Romans 8 and James 2 state clearly OSAS for the church saint.

Grace is a gift. It is not a gift if it can be taken back.It is a loan

 

[Hidden In Him]

The born-again will never get my Christ or blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

I think you meant "deny" Christ here. I shouldn't have brought up denying Christ or the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, since that will just expand this thread out to covering all sorts of things. I was hoping to stick to the parable at hand in this thread. My apologies. I have however created a new thread on Matthew 24:45-51, if you want to cover that. This one is so active that I can't get back to it, but deal with that one if you haven't had a chance to look at it yet. It is entitled "Could the disciples have lost their salvation."

 

[marks]

Yes. :) Taking the mark, denying Christ, blaspheming the Holy Spirit, abusing the church in leadership, and refusal to forgive. Those are the five I see listed that can annul grace.

So . . . not forgiving someone will remove your salvation, having annulled grace?

I hope you have a very good memory, and don't forget anyone!

Much love!
mark

 

[Helen]

Certainly. A king gives grace to a servant who owes a debt. That is really grace. The servant goes out and shows no pity on his fellow servant, and so greatly angers the king by this that he rescinds the grace. Your supposition, Mark, is that the grace is only real if it is irreversible, and that doesn't seem to hold weight in light of several passages of scripture including this one.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

I'm getting a bit confused here..I answered your post #216 where you said:-

I do think this is a type of torment. But He addressed that last servant as "you wicked and slothful servant." I don't think he was referring to a saint there. :)

...to which I answered in post #220.

So, was the servant a type christians or not? ( if not what is he point of the story?) I'm getting somewhat lost. lol

Bless you... H

 

[Hidden In Him]

Again this seeing grace as a commodity. We can easily grieve the Spirit. When the Spirit is chased away...the grace goes too. You can't have a non-spiritual grace that has no presence of God.

Grace isn't like a coin we put in our pockets. Nobody owns grace. Grace is how God puts us into a spiritual race...how He equips us to overcome sin and the world.

But we can easily fail grace...just by treating His gift as a commodity. We can easily frustrate the purpose of God by trying to exploit His gifts.

If we have taken wrongly the time when we received grace....taking it for ourselves ...we can become a monster of sorts. A spoiled sinner.

Grace is God's way with us through Christ. Better to learn to be as He is rather than selfishly claim good things for ourselves. A gift of God is never to us but meant to work THROUGH us to others.

The outpouring of the Spirit is likewise given by grace. But I regard the outpouring of the Spirit and the forgiveness of sins to be two separate events.

 

[marks]

That's indoctrination my friend. You read that in a book. If I read a pamphlet about a trip to Greece....that doesn't make me a tourist. If you just read the bible and claim all the good stuff for yourself...then you are just a spoiled sinner.

Look deeper.

No. That's Scripture. I'm certain you must have read those passages.

Yes. I read it in a Book. Not just any Book.

And, you've introduced yet another Straw Man. You realize these are Logical Fallacies, right?

If you just read the bible and claim all the good stuff for yourself...then you are just a spoiled sinner.

You can read about Greece but not go there. And you can read about salvation, but not go there either. This is true.

Much love!
Mark

 

[CoreIssue]

I think you meant "deny" Christ here. I shouldn't have brought up denying Christ or the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, since that will just expand this thread out to covering all sorts of things. I was hoping to stick to the parable at hand in this thread. My apologies. I have however created a new thread on Matthew 24:45-51, if you want to cover that. This one is so active that I can't get back to it, but deal with that one if you haven't had a chance to look at it yet. It is entitled "Could the disciples have lost their salvation."

Ooops and fixed.

Already looked to see other.

 

[Helen]

@Hidden In Him You have probably got your hands very full replying to all the fast postings here. Brave man . :)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Grace is a gift. It is not a gift if it can be taken back.It is a loan

LoL. We seem to be going round and round at this point rather than dealing with the actual scriptire I addressed in the OP. Once that happens these conversations get endless. Join me on the other thread. I'd like to know what your verse by verse interpretation of that parable is, and blessings in Christ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So . . . not forgiving someone will remove your salvation, having annulled grace?

I hope you have a very good memory, and don't forget anyone!

LoL. I mentioned somewhere that this was specifically spoken to Peter in direct response to a question about how much should HE forgive, he being a disciple. That's what led to creating a new thread on Matthew 24:45-51, which was also taught directly to the disciples. In other words, I think one's responsibility as a Christian leader was especially in view, for to whom much is given much will be required. But that still leaves open the question of how it applies to the typical believer.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So, was the servant a type christians or not? ( if not what is he point of the story?) I'm getting somewhat lost. lol

You aren't the only one, LoL. I was responding to the additional parable you brought up. Yes, both servants in both parables I believe were initially saved, but did not walk in obedience to their Lord. My point was that the servant who buried his talent in the sand was addressed as a wicked servant, which would suggest he was no longer in good standing with the master.

 

[Hidden In Him]

@Hidden In Him You have probably got your hands very full replying to all the fast postings here.

Making my head spin, LoL. I think there was a post of yours I wanted to respond to, but when you get three pages behind it can be tough finding what's been responded to and what hasn't. Serves me right for creating a thread with these implications. Not sure what I was thinking, but too late now.

Brave man . :)

Brave, or just reckless? LoL.

 

[Enoch111]

My point here, Enoch, was that if they are "paying a price," this insinuated they would be paying for their own sins, which the parable suggests from the outset that they cannot.

And that is why parables should not be stretched beyond appropriate bounds. The are there for illustrative purposes, not to establish doctrine.

 

[Episkopos]

And that is why parables should not be stretched beyond appropriate bounds. The are there for illustrative purposes, not to establish doctrine.

That's a ridiculous statement. Jesus taught by teaching using parables. The illustrations were a way of teaching the ways of the kingdom. You may have missed that.

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus taught by teaching using parables.

As Jesus plainly stated Himself, He used parable to hide spiritual truths from the wilfully blind and deaf, and then He explained the parables to His disciples (including us).

MATTHEW 13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Therefore parables illustrate spiritual truths. Bible doctrine is stated in the plain teachings of Christ and the apostles (not to exclude what is already taught in the Old Testament.

 

[Episkopos]

Therefore parables illustrate spiritual truths. Bible doctrine is stated in the plain teachings of Christ and the apostles (not to exclude what is already taught in the Old Testament.

You are splitting hairs here. If the bible tells us what the parables mean....then they are teachings (doctrines). All you have to do now is get a hold of a bible and read. That's in plain sight. The only people who would not have received the parables as teaching were those who didn't have the testimony of the gospels.

Of course that doesn't mean that people will understand or take the teachings seriously. Just look at all the people who think that Jesus was just a precursor to Paul...who had the REAL gospel...so that the teachings of Jesus could be relegated to the time of His own earthly ministry...before becoming obsolete through His going up to heaven.

 

[Hidden In Him]

And that is why parables should not be stretched beyond appropriate bounds. The are there for illustrative purposes, not to establish doctrine.

OH... Enoch, please don't take that position, for your own sake. You will be depriving yourself and everyone you teach of serious evaluation of the parables, which were very specifically intended by the Lord to teach a right understand of both doctrine and prophecy.

Up to you, but holding to that stand would be a terrible mistake, IMO.