Paul’s very clear warning about today’s #1 disastrous doctrine

[Zachary]

.
A superior post, GraceIsMine ... thanks for sharing it with us!

 

[Zachary]

Life NOT in the Spirit
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I am warning those in the church who are sinning habitually (i.e. without repentance)
that they are NOT walking in the Spirit ... and are NOT "in Christ Jesus".

 

[mjrhealth]

(i.e. without repentance)

Do you even know waht repentance is??

G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Ie to change ones mind,

Like teh prodigal son

Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

First thing he did was change his mind, I am a fool, and turned back to His father, that is repentance, God im wrong you are right, teh asking for forgiveness comes after. One can ask for forgivenes till the sun goes down, and not change, one must change ones mind and realise that one is doing wrong before teh wound will heal.

 

[Graceismine]

Hypergrace.. hmm

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

But now we have christians runnung around condemned by there sin ,because apparently Christ grace is apparently not sufficient

2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Do you know why, even after coming to Christ we still sin, because He never came to stop us sinning but to take away teh condemnation because we are proud arrogant people and end up sounding just liek this man.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Or as Paul (i think) put it

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

or

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That is why when we walik in teh spirit

Life in the Spirit
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

ARe we free to gainfully run around sinning as so many love to put it, No, but it sets us free so we can live, we cant live if sin condemns us, if sin is condemning us than He has not set you free because you dont believe.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

But now we have christians runnung around condemned by there sin ,because apparently Christ grace is apparently not sufficient

You quoted the Scripture that says there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. No! Christians do not go running around under condemnation for their sin or even feeling condemned. Christians should be waiting on the Lord asking for mercy because they have been convicted of their sin by the Holy Spirit.

 

[mjrhealth]

convicted of their sin by the Holy Spirit.

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Thats why they run arouind condemned, if they believed Him they wouldnt need to ask they would know they are forgiven

 

[H. Richard]

Life NOT in the Spirit
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I am warning those in the church who are sinning habitually (i.e. without repentance)
that they are NOT walking in the Spirit ... and are NOT "in Christ Jesus".

***
It seems to me that those that are so worried about the sins of others they miss the point that they are sinners too.

Repentance is an attitude of the heart. It is not a RITUAL that men do to save themselves; it is an attitude that acknowledges I am not worthy to be called God's child but because God loves me, and all of mankind, so much that He gave His Son to atone for ALL the sins of the world.. The Son's work on the cross provides all that is necessary for mankind's salvation. The problem is that the religious want save themselves by what they do and they want others to do it too.

Attitudes:

Some wish to be religious policemen on the forums. They think that they know the truth in the scriptures, feel that others do not, and that the forum must be protected from those that do not believe as they do. When they enter into a discussion it is not to "share" what they believe but to "impose" what they believe on others or to destroy what another believes. This is a very serious attitude problem.

What killed Jesus, Stephen, Paul and Peter? "The attitudes of people did!

It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Jesus of being wrong and wanting to have Him killed. It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Paul of being wrong and wanting to kill him. It is the same attitude problem that made the Pharisees charge (accuse) Stephen of being wrong and wanting to kill him. It is the same attitude problem that made the RCC charge (accuse) others of heresy and have them burned at the stake. It is the same attitude problem that made Calvin have those of the RCC burned at the stake. It is the same attitude problem that made the religious people in Salem hang those they thought were witches. It is the same attitude problem that causes Muslims to kill others.

This SAME attitude problem is found on forums in some of the posters. If a person dares to challenge another's believe system, then attack them, call them names, make fun of them, and above all else try to make yourself look superior to them by ridiculing them. It is an attitude that makes people rail against others, to denigrate and character assassinate another. It comes from insecurity and an evil heart that does not know what love is. The Children of God will not do it.

Having the wrong attitude towards others has killed many in the name of religion. It will also get your name added to a "do not respond list." list

 

[epostle1]

There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread between redemption and salvation. They are not the same thing.

Basically, redemption is collective and salvation is individual. By his passion, death, and resurrection, Christ redeemed humanity collectively from slavery to sin and from the debt of punishment mankind -- as a whole -- owed due to sin. Each and every person, Christian or non-Christian, is redeemed because he is a member of the human race.

Salvation is the application of redemption to individuals. Although a member of redeemed humanity, and therefore himself redeemed, a person can freely choose to deliberately reject the graces won for him by Christ and go to hell.
No one can judge who does this.

 

[Zachary]

There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread between redemption and salvation. They are not the same thing.

Basically, redemption is collective and salvation is individual. By his passion, death, and resurrection,
Christ redeemed humanity collectively from slavery to sin and from the debt of punishment mankind -- as a whole -- owed due to sin.
Each and every person, Christian or non-Christian, is redeemed because he is a member of the human race.

You must be joking, or delusional, or deceived, or ...?
IMO, no one who is a born-again believer ... believes what you do.

 

[H. Richard]

There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread between redemption and salvation. They are not the same thing.

Basically, redemption is collective and salvation is individual. By his passion, death, and resurrection, Christ redeemed humanity collectively from slavery to sin and from the debt of punishment mankind -- as a whole -- owed due to sin. Each and every person, Christian or non-Christian, is redeemed because he is a member of the human race.

Salvation is the application of redemption to individuals. Although a member of redeemed humanity, and therefore himself redeemed, a person can freely choose to deliberately reject the graces won for him by Christ and go to hell.
No one can judge who does this.

***
The only confusion I see is your trying to get works in as a requirement for getting the free gift Jesus has given us.

You have no business judging the children of God in how they live their lives. They only have to live it in faith that Jesus atoned for their sins of the flesh..

Perhaps you missed what Paul said about judging the brothers "IN CHRIST". Or is it that you can not stand it that Jesus gave men a free gift and you just can't believe it?

Rom 14:1-13
14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.

4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God."

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.
NKJV

 

[Heb 13:8]

Isn't it obvious that I do NOT believe ALL of our sins (past, present, future) were taken care of on the Cross.

The Lord Jesus baptized me with the Holy Spirit,

<_<

 

[Heb 13:8]

Believers are condemned by man, but never Jesus Christ.

 

[Zachary]

Believers are condemned by man, but never Jesus Christ.

[SIZE=medium]Romans 8:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]who do not walk according to the flesh, but (who walk) according to the Spirit. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. [/SIZE]

 

[Heb 13:8]

[SIZE=medium]Romans 8:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; [/SIZE][SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]

Rom 8:33, 38-39 - agape love in believers only. neither death nor life can separate the elect from God.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Rom 8:33-39

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love (agape) of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love (agape) of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Rom 5:5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love (agape) has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

2 Cor 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love (agape) of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

 

[bbyrd009]

Believers are condemned by man, but never Jesus Christ.

Pharisees were believers. :)

 

[Heb 13:8]

Pharisees were believers. :)

Ok bbyrd

 

[H. Richard]

Pharisees were believers. :)

***
The Pharisees believed in their religion some what. Even thought their religion condemned murder the Pharisees did it anyway. In other words they put on a show of piety for others to see but in their hearts they were just as evil. They could not see their own hearts. They thought they were above their fellow man just a as those today think it...

 

[bbyrd009]

***
The Pharisees believed in their religion some what. Even thought their religion condemned murder the Pharisees did it anyway. In other words they put on a show of piety for others to see but in their hearts they were just as evil. They could not see their own hearts. They thought they were above their fellow man just a as those today think it...

yes, me too, this is hard to overcome, huh? It seems we are called to be "humble gods," and this is an oxymoron to us. Or at least to me.

Anyway, i mostly meant to point out that using the term "believers" means that one has an approved definition for "believer" that they rigidly hold to, while God may not care at all.
One man's believer is another's heretic, iow, so i might ask for a definition of "believer" here to make the point, or at least suggest that belief is not faith, even if they are--surely intentionally--often conflated in our translations. Note that they are not conflated in the Lex.

So, what is a believer? What does this mean? Ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Believers are condemned by man, but never Jesus Christ.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord! ’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name? ’
23Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’