Paul and Faith Alone…

[Godssrvr]

Would you please give your understanding of "repent" as you see it for those of us reading along

This is something I recently wrote that shows my understanding of "repent" as in the context of justification.
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Can a lost person repent, but still be lost? Yes! If the repentance was not related to faith in Christ, it brings no "justification of life" before God!

We can "repent" (change our thinking) about anything. I can repent about what kind of cereal I eat for breakfast this morning, but it doesn't justify me before God. As it relates to sin, I can repent of certain behaviors in my life, but that can't justify me before God. God said we are.......

"justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus". Romans 3:24

The thought that we can possibly add to our justification through obedience is self righteousness, and that is what we need to repent of. But don't listen to me, read Romans chapters 3-5 and see what God says!

Justification requires me to recognize God says I am completely wicked before Him no matter what change I bring in my mortal life. Any offering of obedience from mortal man is worthless before God in the context of justification (Isaiah 64:6, Romans 3:10,19,23). I can change how I live, and I can become the most loving person the world has ever seen on the outside, but if my spirit has never been born of God, (regenerated in Christ), I'll still spend eternity in hell. The change needed for salvation is a spiritual change, and can only be made by God through a work of the Holy Spirit through man's faith in Christ (John 3:5-7).

A believer is one who has forsaken any dependence on self righteousness, to trust completely in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Trusting only the sacrifice of His life as God in the flesh on the cross, being buried, and risen from the dead. God said "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Romans 3:20a). To "turn from sin" in the context of justification is to depend on the law to be justified, and is not of faith toward Christ. We receive "justification of life" based on the life Jesus led, not the life we lead. Romans 5:17-19 Titus 3:5 Philippians 3:9

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

John 3:5-7
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 John 5:4-5
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Pisteuo]

This is something I recently wrote that shows my understanding of "repent" as in the context of justification.
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Can a lost person repent, but still be lost? Yes! If the repentance was not related to faith in Christ, it brings no "justification of life" before God!

We can "repent" (change our thinking) about anything. I can repent about what kind of cereal I eat for breakfast this morning, but it doesn't justify me before God. As it relates to sin, I can repent of certain behaviors in my life, but that can't justify me before God. God said we are.......

"justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus". Romans 3:24

The thought that we can possibly add to our justification through obedience is self righteousness, and that is what we need to repent of. But don't listen to me, read Romans chapters 3-5 and see what God says!

Justification requires me to recognize God says I am completely wicked before Him no matter what change I bring in my mortal life. Any offering of obedience from mortal man is worthless before God in the context of justification (Isaiah 64:6, Romans 3:10,19,23). I can change how I live, and I can become the most loving person the world has ever seen on the outside, but if my spirit has never been born of God, (regenerated in Christ), I'll still spend eternity in hell. The change needed for salvation is a spiritual change, and can only be made by God through a work of the Holy Spirit through man's faith in Christ (John 3:5-7).

A believer is one who has forsaken any dependence on self righteousness, to trust completely in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Trusting only the sacrifice of His life as God in the flesh on the cross, being buried, and risen from the dead. God said "by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Romans 3:20a). To "turn from sin" in the context of justification is to depend on the law to be justified, and is not of faith toward Christ. We receive "justification of life" based on the life Jesus led, not the life we lead. Romans 5:17-19 Titus 3:5 Philippians 3:9

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

John 3:5-7
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 John 5:4-5
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Thank you for explaining.

 

[Marymog]

Anyone that comes to Christ has to acknowledge that they are sinful, right???? Isn't that repentance?

Repentance implies a recognition of wrong done to God and a desire to turn from evil and do good. So the answer is yes.

Anyone that comes to Christ (who is God) must acknowledge any of the sins (wrongs done to God) they have committed.

 

[Godssrvr]

Repentance implies a recognition of wrong done to God and a desire to turn from evil and do good

I agree we must acknowledge our state of depravation, but to think we can "turn from evil and do good" is not to understand. God said we can't do good Romans 3:10-11. If we are trying to "do good" in order to be justified, that's the same as trying to keep the law. We are justified by faith alone, to try to "do good" is the opposite of understanding you CAN'T! We cannot justify ourselves, if you can show me scripture that says we can be justified by a "desire to turn from evil and do good", I'll change my view. Until then, repentance is to trust in Him alone, knowing we can't trust in ourselves. "No confidence in the flesh" Philippians 3:3

 

[skypair]

The mentality of turning from sin is the mentality of keeping the law

No, sir. It is turning from sin in the power of the Holy Spirit. We have the will .. the Spirit supplies the power. And once the Spirit indwells you, you are without sin, 1Jn 3:9.

We must have His righteousness imputed to us through faith in Him. Romans 4:3-8

I should have realized this would be your next assertion. No, we are not imputed with righteousness like those in the OT .. we have the righteousness of Christ Himself because He indwells us -- He is the Comforter, Christ in us.

skypair

 

[skypair]

Do you ever read it?

Don't be insulting.

The word of God says salvation is by grace. If not trusting in His grace without works, there is no salvation.

Nobody is relying on "works." Read Isa 55:7, Job 33:27-28, Lk 18:13, 2Cor 10:5, Ro 12:1, Psa 34:18, Acts 20:21 ("repentance towards God and faith in Christ"), etc. and get a better idea of what God commands you to do if you desire to be saved.

skypair

 

[skypair]

Repentance implies a recognition of wrong done to God and a desire to turn from evil and do good. So the answer is yes.

Yes, Mary. And it is the "heart's desire." You know what the heart is? It is the place where we see the person we ideally want to be. This is an intentional decision regarding the rest of your life. It is saying that you have faith in the promises of God.

Jesus said, "I have come that you might have life and you might have it more abundantly." That is NOW and in ETERNITY. And, oh my gosh .. after 55 years of trusting Him, He has proved faithful to His promises! I wish everyone would just get rid of their "hangups," sins, and trust Him intentionally -- with the heart and not just with the mind.

skypair

 

[Godssrvr]

Nobody is relying on "works." Read Isa 55:7, Job 33:27-28, Lk 18:13, 2Cor 10:5, Ro 12:1, Psa 34:18, Acts 20:21 ("repentance towards God and faith in Christ"), etc. and get a better idea of what God commands you to do if you desire to be saved.

Since I see you have (again) used Romans 12:1 to make your point of how to be saved, I see no need to read any of these references you've included because Romans 12:1 is written to believers about their "reasonable service" and has nothing to do with receiving eternal life. I'm sorry but you really have no idea of the truth. You need to become blind before you can see. You would fit right in with the Pharisees. John 9:39-41

 

[Godssrvr]

Don't be insulting.

Don't use scripture out of context to support a false gospel.

 

[skypair]

Since I see you have (again) used Romans 12:1 …

"Present your bodies a living sacrifice" is giving your life to Christ, my friend. He will "transform by the renewing of your mind." (12:2, Titus 3:5)

So I will gladly trust in the gospel of Acts 2:36-40 which is the pattern gospel of the new covenant. It is pretty sad that you need to be blind to the gospel in order to be saved.

skypair

 

[Godssrvr]

"Present your bodies a living sacrifice" is giving your life to Christ, my friend.

God doesn't ask us to "give our life to Christ" to be justified. His grace is freely given through faith Romans 3:24-28. If you had continued your quote from Romans 12, you would have shown that Paul told these "brethren" it was their "reasonable service". They were already saved, not trying to be! Our service to God has nothing to do with how we are justified, which scripture clearly teaches is by grace through faith in Christ alone.

The gospel of salvation is simple, but those deceived of the truth complicate it for others by misrepresenting scripture and bible terminology. Paul gives us the simple gospel here....

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[H. Richard]

"Present your bodies a living sacrifice" is giving your life to Christ, my friend. He will "transform by the renewing of your mind." (12:2, Titus 3:5)

So I will gladly trust in the gospel of Acts 2:36-40 which is the pattern gospel of the new covenant. It is pretty sad that you need to be blind to the gospel in order to be saved.

skypair

***
The church under grace did not start with Peter at Pentecost. I know you will not believe it but I would like for you to see if you will connect the 3 dots.

dot 1; Peter's sermon in Acts 2.
dot 2; Peter's vision in Acts 10:10-16.
dot 3; Peter was astonished Acts 10;44-45.

Question, if the vision in Acts 10-10 was to inform Peter of God's including the Gentiles why was it necessary since most say he knew it at Pentecost?
Question, why was Peter, and the Jews with him, astonished that the Gentiles were saved when they were supposed to know it already in Acts 2.

 

[skypair]

***
The church under grace did not start with Peter at Pentecost. I know you will not believe it but I would like for you to see if you will connect the 3 dots.

dot 1; Peter's sermon in Acts 2.
dot 2; Peter's vision in Acts 10:10-16.
dot 3; Peter was astonished Acts 10;44-45.

I understand you "Mid-Acts" pov. The reason for Acts 10 is that Peter had the keys to the kingdom and only he could open the kingdom to the Gentiles granting them the Holy Ghost. Did that mean his gospel was any different in its major revelations? No. It still must begin with Acts 2:36-37 (= Jn 16:8-10) — conviction of sin, revelation of Christ's atonement, and invitation to repentance.

Question, if the vision in Acts 10-10 was to inform Peter of God's including the Gentiles why was it necessary since most say he knew it at Pentecost?

He didn't see it at Pentecost.

Question, why was Peter, and the Jews with him, astonished that the Gentiles were saved when they were supposed to know it already in Acts 2.

They didn't know it already. The commission was to take the gospel to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the uttermost parts of the earth; but the "how" had not been revealed yet.

skypair

 

[skypair]

If you had continued your quote from Romans 12, you would have shown that Paul told these "brethren" it was their "reasonable service"

Right, the process of becoming a disciple/servant was a) give your life to Christ, b) be justified, and c) be regenerated and have your mind renewed by the Holy Ghost (be sanctified, Titus 3:5). It is necessary for Paul to say this among new Christians and particularly so that those who are not saved will understand the process.

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

What would it mean to you that they could "believe in vain?" To me, it would mean being a Calvinist in your thinking that you needn't repent in order to receive salvation and the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) In fact, that is the issue Paul turns to and spends 27 verses (15:12-39) explaining to them how, if Christ was resurrected from the dead, then they too must die in order to receive the "body that shall be." That is, the "new man." (Eph 4:24, Col 3:9-10) Give it a read and see if you come up with the same thing.

skypair

 

[Helen]

What would it mean to you that they could "believe in vain?" To me, it would mean being a Calvinist in your thinking that you needn't repent in order to receive salvation and the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) In fact, that is the issue Paul turns to and spends 27 verses (15:12-39) explaining to them how, if Christ was resurrected from the dead, then they too must die in order to receive the "body that shall be." That is, the "new man." (Eph 4:24, Col 3:9-10) Give it a read and see if you come up with the same thing.


skypair

Hello there
I think that 2 Cor 6:1 is the verse that keeps me balanced in the message of grace. I have never read "not believe in vain" as having anything to do with salvation though ...but everything to do with the depth of grace.. =
"God's ability in us, to do what we cant do " Strongs.
In other words grace=God's ability in our life.
Some see grace as 'just covering all' while I see Paul's heart cry as 'don't leave His wonderful grace in your top draw in the morning, but recognize His amazing grace in our everyday life.

.........H

 

[H. Richard]

I understand you "Mid-Acts" pov. The reason for Acts 10 is that Peter had the keys to the kingdom and only he could open the kingdom to the Gentiles granting them the Holy Ghost. Did that mean his gospel was any different in its major revelations? No. It still must begin with Acts 2:36-37 (= Jn 16:8-10) — conviction of sin, revelation of Christ's atonement, and invitation to repentance.


He didn't see it at Pentecost.


They didn't know it already. The commission was to take the gospel to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the uttermost parts of the earth; but the "how" had not been revealed yet.

skypair

***

Peter was sent to the Jews to proclaim that Jesus was the promised Messiah and King. There is nothing about the cross except that the Jews rejected their Messiah and King which the body of Acts 2 proclaims. --- The 12 were sent to the nation of Israel to get them to accept Jesus but they could not do it. The 12 were under the covenants made to the Jews. Today we are not under the Jewish covenant.

Paul was specifically sent, by the ascended Lord, to the Gentiles. Paul was sent to the whole world. It is amazing to me that most will accept the lie so easy, the lie that Peter started a grace Gospel. As a matter of fact after Peter witnessed the fact that Gentiles were to be saved too, Peter went back to Jerusalem and there is no record that he went anywhere else in the Scriptures.

After Acts There is no mention of any gospel of the kingdom. Nor is there any mention in the N.T. where Peter went anywhere but Jerusalem. Why?? because the gospel of the kingdom was put on hold until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

 

[skypair]

In other words grace=God's ability in our life.
Some see grace as 'just covering all' while I see Paul's heart cry as 'don't leave His wonderful grace in your top draw in the morning, but recognize His amazing grace in our everyday life.

That's pretty good. What I see many people doing is saying that grace is salvation itself or salvation + blessings that follow. That is definitely not what it means. We receive salvation and blessings only by the application of Bible truth. Application of the Bible truth is by obedience, right? Abraham doesn't get the Promised Land without leaving Ur. Noah doesn't survive the flood without building an ark. We don't get the blessings of "it will be well with you" unless we obey the "first commandment with promise," honor your parents.

God often has MERCY on lost sinners but free grace is the Word of God that leads them to God, to the gospel, and to repentance unto life.

skypair

 

[skypair]

Paul was specifically sent, by the ascended Lord, to the Gentiles. Paul was sent to the whole world. It is amazing to me that most will accept the lie so easy, the lie that Peter started a grace Gospel.

OK, now you are declaring that there is more than one way to be saved, H. Not so. Peter's gospel was the same as Paul's. They were simply given in different contexts. Where Peter preached the one gospel to the Jews in Jerusalem, Paul preached the same gospel to the Athenians in Acts 17. Paul's gospel had all the main points of Peter's. Both gospels commanded "all men every where to repent." (Acts 17:30, cf, Acts 2:38)

After Acts There is no mention of any gospel of the kingdom. Nor is there any mention in the N.T. where Peter went anywhere but Jerusalem. Why?? because the gospel of the kingdom was put on hold until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

Peter wasn't preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Like you said, there is no mention of it even in Acts. And Peter was known to have gone east from Jerusalem, likely to the Jews in Babylon.

skypair

 

[Helen]

That's pretty good. What I see many people doing is saying that grace is salvation itself or salvation + blessings that follow. That is definitely not what it means. We receive salvation and blessings only by the application of Bible truth. Application of the Bible truth is by obedience, right? Abraham doesn't get the Promised Land without leaving Ur. Noah doesn't survive the flood without building an ark. We don't get the blessings of "it will be well with you" unless we obey the "first commandment with promise," honor your parents.

God often has MERCY on lost sinners but free grace is the Word of God that leads them to God, to the gospel, and to repentance unto life.

skypair

Yes, most people just say that grace is 'unmerited favour' which it is...but the thing is, that is not only what it is!! It is deeper, wider and much richer than just unmerited favour. It is active and enabling.

You said :- <We receive salvation and blessings only by the application of Bible truth. Application of the Bible truth is by obedience, right? >

Like most things...maybe we are saying the same thing but in different ways.
The other day I was arguing a point with someone, forgotten who...and it took about five posts to finally agree that we were saying the same thing but saying it differently.

So here on your quote I would n't say it like that. If I were chatting with someone I would say...'we receive salvation by saying thank you,' and salvation comes by suddenly seeing the awesomeness of all the God did through Jesus Christ. Receive speaks for itself ...it is a joyful taking of what God is giving.
After our first initial joy and euphoria we quickly learn that we have moved into a relationship... one of speaking and hearing...our ears get tunes to "leave the land" or "build the boat..." and we start our life of walking in faith and of hearing and doing what what God speaks to us. And He draws us on, deeper and deeper...

Are we on the same page?

 

[skypair]

After our first initial joy and euphoria we quickly learn that we have moved into a relationship... one of speaking and hearing...our ears get tunes to "leave the land" or "build the boat..." and we start our life of walking in faith and of hearing and doing what what God speaks to us. And He draws us on, deeper and deeper...

Yeah, good stuff. My main thought is that it all begins by obeying the gospel of grace .. not obeying your own thoughts and ways but obeying God's (Isa 55:7).

skypair