Paul and Faith Alone…

[michaelvpardo]

What you are describing is repentance to yourself, michael. Do you see that? You are committing to yourself to change. What that amounts to is saying that you can save yourself. No, you have to repent to God because you can't turn from sin and be obedient to God in your own power. It can't be one of these things where God "gives" you repentance and there is no interaction or cooperation with God necessary to accomplish it.

Do you know what Reformers leave out when they want salvation or blessings from God? Obedience! It's all a matter of the mind — mind games.


You mean like we are, no? Were you not a sinner and idolatrous? No, we all need to repent, turn our hearts around from self to God through Christ.

skypair

Do you realize that you've simply repeated what i've said using different words?
I've defined repentance from the human perspective , but as the work of God within us, which is what scripture describes and defines repentance as. It is God who works to will and to do in us, but He does His work according to His election. We however experience His election as our choice; that's the only way it's possible for us to be aware of it. Get it?

 

[bbyrd009]

how could you possibly "change your mind" in that case?

but i won't tag you, or Scott, because the Q has just been ignored too many times at this point, and i am not interested in putting anyone on the spot any more than i already do. But you guys are kidding yourselves, seems to me

 

[mjrhealth]

and the earth became void, and without form

Did noy God exist before the world was?? Therefore love was alwasy in existence... because God is love...

 

[Dcopymope]

Did noy God exist before the world was?? Therefore love was alwasy in existence... because God is love...

Wait, you mean there are people who believe that since the earth was without form and void that so to was love? What, do they believe that love is some sort of concrete invisible object floating in space? What the hell is going on here? For Christ's sake these weirdo ideas are making my head spin.

 

[skypair]

I've defined repentance from the human perspective , but as the work of God within us, which is what scripture describes and defines repentance as. It is God who works to will and to do in us, but He does His work according to His election. We however experience His election as our choice; that's the only way it's possible for us to be aware of it. Get it?

Interesting perspective. I haven't heard that one before. So is your choice a) to repent to God of sin or b) repent to yourself that you will put away sin?

skypair

 

[bbyrd009]

Did noy God exist before the world was?? Therefore love was alwasy in existence... because God is love...

so, from the perspective of the earth or world then, how is that relevant?

 

[bbyrd009]

what Dc is saying, iow; i don't get the connect, sorry

Wait, you mean there are people who believe that since the earth was without form and void that so to was love? What, do they believe that love is some sort of concrete invisible object floating in space? What the hell is going on here? For Christ's sake these weirdo ideas are making my head spin.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Interesting perspective. I haven't heard that one before. So is your choice a) to repent to God of sin or b) repent to yourself that you will put away sin?

skypair

I understand repentance as turning from sin (doing our own will) to God (doing His will) and see it as an ongoing process with the Lord revealing sinful actions and thoughts which require a response from us now, and throughout our lives. The Apostle Paul refers to this when describing the nature of "the old man" whom we are to reckon as dead, and being lead by the Spirit of God. Following the Spirit of God isn't optional for a child of God, but as a good father, the Lord disciplines us through times when we seek to do our own will (God knows our weaknesses and is our guide and helper through them.) The way of Christ is the way of obedience, but He spoke directly to the issue in the gospels when He told of 2 sons given a task by their father. One was rebellious in responding, but did the will of his father anyway, while the second responded enthusiastically, but failed to do his father's will. Jesus pointed out that it was the first who actually did the father's will (the implication being that it was the first that He approved.)

 

[skypair]

I understand repentance as turning from sin (doing our own will) to God (doing His will) and see it as an ongoing process with the Lord revealing sinful actions and thoughts which require a response from us now, and throughout our lives.

Well, this is true .. but what justifies is repentance of the heart right up front. It is a certain "promise" to turn from our wicked and unrighteous ways (Isa 55:7) and "turn unto our God." A few passages that will give you the idea of what this is (besides Isa 55:7) are Ro 12:1, 2Cor 10:5, Col 3:9-10, Eph 4:24 and it really is a matter of your heart -- do you "mean business" with God .. are you going to make Him Lord of your life and dethrone self as He leads you TODAY. If you make a promise, it is like marriage, Mike -- He's going to be there for you!

He told of 2 sons given a task by their father. One was rebellious in responding, but did the will of his father anyway, while the second responded enthusiastically, but failed to do his father's will. Jesus pointed out that it was the first who actually did the father's will (the implication being that it was the first that He approved.)

Right, my understanding of it is the first said he would obey but didn't .. the second said he wouldn't but then did obey. But it was one time obedience. There are many that say they will be faithful till the end thinking that is what saves -- but then they aren't. We aren't called to make the kind of commitment of our own. We have to rely on Him. So the one who said he wouldn't but then did obey submitting himself to God like a bride does to her husband -- that is what God wants.

skypair

 

[Godssrvr]

"Repentance" as it applies to justification, is a change of mind from what you once believed would bring eternal life, to faith alone in the gospel of Christ.

There are biblical examples of this all through scripture. I like this one best.....

Philippians 3:2-10
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

 

[aspen]

Paul was not throwing out the law. He was speakng to an audience who only knew the law and also knew they could not keep it. It was a message of freedom. We are a difference audience - many of us have grown up with the opposite problem (which we try to blame on Paul). Easy salvation theough faith alone.

The bottom line is that we are called to love, which mean faith+works=love.

 

[Godssrvr]

Paul was not throwing out the law

That seems to be the opinion of some, but it's not the truth of scripture. We are talking about being born again, and it isn't by keeping the law, but by faith in Christ. These scripture references should show you when we come to Christ by faith, we are no longer under the law. If you're under the law, you're not under grace.

Romans 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:23-26
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[skypair]

"Repentance" as it applies to justification, is a change of mind from what you once believed would bring eternal life, to faith alone in the gospel of Christ.

Changing your mind is pretty easy .. repenting of all that you know and understand and trusting is what God teaches you is true repentance (2Cor 10:5, Isa 55:7, Ro 12:1) of the heart. Salvation/justification calls for HEART repentance (Ro 10:9-10).

skypair

 

[skypair]

Easy salvation theough faith alone.

This is so true. We think that, just because we believe, God will save us. But even Calvin said "faith originates in obedience." Scripturally in salvation, that means repentance of the heart .. a firm commitment to trust Christ over self.

The bottom line is that we are called to love, which mean faith+works=love.

Correct. There is no place in scripture that says "faith alone," but there is a verse (Jas 2:24) that says, "Ye see by works a man is justified and not be faith only." So what the gospel is calling us to is works, not of the flesh or the law, but of the mind (believe) and heart (repent).

skypair

 

[Godssrvr]

We think that, just because we believe, God will save us.

To think receiving eternal life is more than faith alone is exactly what you need to "repent" of. Jesus said it was as simple as taking a drink of water.

John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Carefully read Romans 3-5 to see the truth of faith alone. You are trusting the doctrine of Lordship Salvation. Probably because you listen to those who teach it. Since where you spend eternal life is determined by what you believe about this, don't you think it might be in your best interest to consider the possibility that you are deceived of the truth?

Check out Dr. Ralph Yankee Arnold, or Tom Cucuzza to see if there is a different understanding that more closely matches the truth of scripture. Check out Dr. Arnolds "The Real Reason for the Law" on you tube, as well as "Understanding the Two Natures". Just do it to see how his teaching matches scripture, you might see something you hadn't seen before.

 

[skypair]

To think receiving eternal life is more than faith alone is exactly what you need to "repent" of. Jesus said it was as simple as taking a drink of water.

I already did that, of course! That's why I am suggesting you do so, too.

John 14:4 --- Jesus couldn't preach trusting in the cross while He was still alive.

You are trusting the doctrine of Lordship Salvation.

In a way, Gssrvr. I do tell people that they must repent of SELF being Lord and making Him Lord. But not in the sense of John MacArthur. I really go with the idea of 2Cor 10:5 -- "Casting down every imagination and high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ."

Plus, I have done this myself and have experienced 55 years of Christian life, not to mention the joy of that day that He saved me, 1Pet 1:8-9.

skypair

 

[Godssrvr]

Plus, I have done this myself and have experienced 55 years of Christian life, not to mention the joy of that day that He saved me, 1Pet 1:8-9.

If you or anyone on here is saved, it's because at some point in life they trusted completely in the sacrifice Jesus made for them through His death, burial, and resurrection. If you say you have done that, I praise God for it! It's very hard to recognize it through the reading of your posts. Looks more to me like you are trying to prove your faith with works, which is not faith in Christ alone. If you wish to trust your misunderstanding of James 2 to teach the same doctrine as MacAurthur, good luck with that mentality at the judgment seat.

 

[skypair]

If you or anyone on here is saved, it's because at some point in life they trusted completely in the sacrifice Jesus made for them through His death, burial, and resurrection.

And so you don't believe that you have to "untrust" in yourself in order to totally trust in Christ? Right now you are trusting that what you believe is true .. not in Christ. If you actually trusted in Christ, you would "Abhor yourself, and repent in dust and ashes." (Job 42:5-6) And God would give you a new life like He did Job. (42:10)

What you have done is failed to deal with your sin issue. You seem to be one of those "Just as I am" folks who thinks God will adopt you despite your sin. You are not in touch with your own heart or conscience (your soul) until you have repented and made Him Lord of your life.


skypair

 

[Godssrvr]

You seem to be one of those "Just as I am" folks who thinks God will adopt you despite your sin

Yep, because I believe what God's Word says! All I have said is what is true from scripture. Your understanding of "repent" is not biblical, because you think it means "turn from sin". The mentality of turning from sin is the mentality of keeping the law to be justified by self righteousness which is impossible. We must have His righteousness imputed to us through faith in Him. Romans 4:3-8

Nothing I can say can make you see the truth, only scripture. Do you ever read it? You can't hear it until you read it, and you can't hear it until you seek the truth of it rather than the man made doctrine you seem to be following. The word of God says salvation is by grace. If not trusting in His grace without works, there is no salvation. That is the truth of the bible. It's up to each individual to accept it or not.

Ephesians 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[Pisteuo]

Your understanding of "repent" is not biblical, because you think it means "turn from sin".

Would you please give your understanding of "repent" as you see it for those of us reading along. If you have already I apologize as I haven't read every post.