Paul taught that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality

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Marty fox

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Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Paul spoke in current and past tense in the verses below that we even though we are still alive on earth we have been seated with Christ spiritually thus we reign on thrones with Jesus now


Ephesians 2:4-6

4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
 

3 Resurrections

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Paul spoke in current and past tense in the verses below that we even though we are still alive on earth we have been seated with Christ spiritually thus we reign on thrones with Jesus now
This statement is also true of those who were faithful to God in their lifetimes during the past millennium years from 968-967 BC until AD 33 (when that millennium ended). By faith, they lived and reigned with Christ during that literal thousand years, and shared in the benefits of having Satan's deception of the nations bound during this time period.

Many (but not all of these souls) were martyred for their faithful testimony concerning the word of the Lord and for predicting the coming of the Just One. And there were those who refused to give homage to the Sea Beast when it first began its existence back under Nebuchadnezzar's conquest of Jerusalem.

John also saw others who refused to participate in the use of the mark beginning in 19 BC which the Jewish religious leadership required of everybody coming to worship at the temple (the required use of the Tyrian shekel coin which gave homage to Rome's pagan gods).

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
These thrones were the 12 apostles of the Lamb to whom Christ granted the authority to judge the twelve tribes of Israel during the days of the early church in Jerusalem (Matt. 19:28). In the regeneration when Christ was resurrected in AD 33 and sat on the throne of His glory, He delegated to His 12 apostles this enthroned authority to judge matters in the early Jerusalem church.
 

Marty fox

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Context please which would make this POV true.

The context is that Paul used the very same words as John did in revelation and stated that we have been made alive with Christ and we are seated us with Jesus in the heavenly realms
 
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Davidpt

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Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Paul spoke in current and past tense in the verses below that we even though we are still alive on earth we have been seated with Christ spiritually thus we reign on thrones with Jesus now


Ephesians 2:4-6

4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Except per Amil, this according to some Amils, these in verse 4---the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands---are not alive on the earth. They are in heaven in a disembodied state. There is no way in a million years that Ephesians 2:4-6 is being applied to someone in a disembodied state dwelling in heaven awaiting their bodily resurrection.

BTW, what are you trying to do here? If you look at the bottom of this thread where it lists Similar threads, note this thread---Paul claimed 3 times that Rev 20:4 was a current reality. Replies 461 Views 10K

Wow, 461 replies, 10k views, and that you still failed to prove what you set out to prove, lol, proved by the fact you needed to start yet another thread involving the same topic. I've heard that the 3rd time is a charm, except this would only be the 2nd time. Maybe when you fail to prove what you are setting out to prove per this 2nd one, and then start a third one, maybe that is when you will get lucky and that the third time will be a charm?
 
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PinSeeker

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There is no way in a million years that Ephesians 2:4-6 is being applied to someone in a disembodied state dwelling in heaven awaiting their bodily resurrection.
LOL! For the ones there (with Jesus in a disembodied state), what Paul describes in Ephesians 2:4-6 already happened for (was already applied to) them at some point during their lives here on earth. They, having been dead in their sin, were born again of the Spirit and raised in Christ also, each at his/her appointed time, by God's grace through faith, just as we are (have been) today. And, if Jesus doesn't come back first, then, when we die, we will join them in that state, in the presence of Christ, awaiting the time of His return, having come to life and reigning with Him over the course of God's millennium.

...maybe that is when you will get lucky and that the third time will be a charm?
No "charms" needed. :)

Grace and peace to you, David.
 
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Marty fox

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Except per Amil, this according to some Amils, these in verse 4---the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands---are not alive on the earth. They are in heaven in a disembodied state. There is no way in a million years that Ephesians 2:4-6 is being applied to someone in a disembodied state dwelling in heaven awaiting their bodily resurrection.

BTW, what are you trying to do here? If you look at the bottom of this thread where it lists Similar threads, note this thread---Paul claimed 3 times that Rev 20:4 was a current reality. Replies 461 Views 10K

Wow, 461 replies, 10k views, and that you still failed to prove what you set out to prove, lol, proved by the fact you needed to start yet another thread involving the same topic. I've heard that the 3rd time is a charm, except this would only be the 2nd time. Maybe when you fail to prove what you are setting out to prove per this 2nd one, and then start a third one, maybe that is when you will get lucky and that the third time will be a charm?

What John was also saying is that even death doesn't stop us reigning with Christ. The reigning that Paul describes referring to Revelation is spiritual not physical.

No need for your insulting and sarcastic comments that is not debating in Christian brotherly love we are supposed to be on the same side.

Maybe you shouldn't assume the worst in fellow Christians and extend grace that maybe there is a good reason for it.

I am on 4 different sites, and someone elsewhere asked me about this, so I remembered it and posted it here not realizing that I previously had.
 

PinSeeker

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The reigning that Paul describes referring to Revelation is spiritual not physical.
But a very real thing. :) "Spiritual" somehow seems to mean something not really happening to many, unfortunately, and/or that the physical is the only thing that's real. I don't think you're one of those who think that, but yeah.

Grace and peace to you, Marty.
 
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Marty fox

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But a very real thing. :) "Spiritual" somehow seems to mean something not really happening to many, unfortunately, and/or that the physical is the only thing that's real. I don't think you're one of those who think that, but yeah.

Grace and peace to you, Marty.

Yes amen more real than physical.

When reading these scriptures, we need to think like the new saints that they were written too before all of the scriptures were put together into one book. This helps us understand more what the writers were teaching and why they taught that way.

Thanks for your post
 

Davidpt

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LOL! For the ones there (with Jesus in a disembodied state), what Paul describes in Ephesians 2:4-6 already happened for (was already applied to) them at some point during their lives here on earth. They, having been dead in their sin, were born again of the Spirit and raised in Christ also, each at his/her appointed time, by God's grace through faith, just as we are (have been) today. And, if Jesus doesn't come back first, then, when we die, we will join them in that state, in the presence of Christ, awaiting the time of His return, having come to life and reigning with Him over the course of God's millennium.

That's reasonable. And the way I look at things in general, if something is at least reasonable, it should then at least be worthy of considering. You haven't changed my mind at this point, but I do at least admit that what you have submitted, that it is reasonable.

Now if Amils could only convincingly show me how it's reasonable that this in verse 6---and shall be priests of God and Christ--somehow makes sense in regards to someone in heaven in a disembodied state?

but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Are the ones in a disembodied state still reigning with Him a thousand years per Amil? If yes, one then also has to apply---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ--to them while they are in a disembodied state. Are all Amils Catholic or something? Don't Catholics believe that departed saints can be and should be prayed to? That departed saints have influence over those back on earth? So on and so on.
 

Jay Ross

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The context is that Paul used the very same words as John did in revelation and stated that we have been made alive with Christ and we are seated us with Jesus in the heavenly realms

Perhaps this is true, however the future context of Rev 20:4 is that Jesus will raise up the beheaded saints because oof their faith in Him and who do not have the mark of the beast to reign with Him in the heavenly for 1,000 years as priests. It is my view that this will happen in around 20 years' time when Satan will be judged as recorded in Isiaih 24:21-22.

However, Paul is presenting a present context for all the saints.

Ephesians 2:6: - and will raise us up together, and seat us together in the heavenly places along side of Christ Jesus,

Colessians 2: 12: - buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Colossians 3:1: - If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.

In other words, live your life in full relationship with Christ.

It is my understanding that the context of both verses is very different.

In Ephesian 2:6, Colossians 2:12 and 3:1, we are all to live our lives in our present circumstances as if we have no other hope but in Christ.

Shalom
 

Jay Ross

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This is interesting. What state do you assume they will be in when beginning to do that? A disembodied state? Or a resurrected immortal bodily state?

I know you know the answer to your question and since I am not assuming the answer it is found in the verses below: -

Rev 20:4-6: - 4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Shalom
 

Davidpt

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What John was also saying is that even death doesn't stop us reigning with Christ. The reigning that Paul describes referring to Revelation is spiritual not physical.

No need for your insulting and sarcastic comments that is not debating in Christian brotherly love we are supposed to be on the same side.

Maybe you shouldn't assume the worst in fellow Christians and extend grace that maybe there is a good reason for it.

I am on 4 different sites, and someone elsewhere asked me about this, so I remembered it and posted it here not realizing that I previously had.


You must be a different Marty than the one I recall on BibleForums years ago. The Marty I recall back then didn't take things like that personal like you are taking it here. I wasn't being sarcastic nor insulting, I was half heartedly joking. I won't do that any more since you apparently now take everything the wrong way and assume the worst about someone you disagree with.

To illustrate the difference between you and me, had you said word for word to me what I said to you, this is likely how I would have responded.

HA Ha, Marty. That's a good one. :)

Then I would have just left it at that, even if I thought you were being sarcastic when you said those things. So what if you were? Big deal. Nothing to get all bent out of shape about. In my case, I was just having a bit of fun is all. After all, I have been knowing you for years. Lighten up, have a little fun sometimes. Not everything has to be serious all the time.
 
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Davidpt

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I know you know the answer to your question and since I am not assuming the answer it is found in the verses below: -

Rev 20:4-6: - 4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Shalom

Are you perhaps SDA? I know they believe the thousand year reign takes place in heaven, which would mean they are in an immortal bodily state in that case. Other Premils, such as me, typically take the thousand year reign to be upon the earth.
 

Jay Ross

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Are you perhaps SDA? I know they believe the thousand-year reign takes place in heaven, which would mean they are in an immortal bodily state in that case. Other Premils, such as me, typically take the thousand-year reign to be upon the earth.

No, I am not SDA, they would not want me among their ranks as I would be question what they believe as well, pointing out the flaws in their understanding. In my posted response to you I only quoted the scriptures.

In searching the scriptures, I have not found any reference to the 1,000 years of the Priestly rule of Christ taking place on the face of the earth. Rev 19 actually suggests that Christ comes down with an army after the 1,000 years of the imprisonment of the Heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the earth, to deal initially with the Beast and the False prophet after they have done their thing towards the end of the little while period just before Satan is captured and is also dispatched into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:7-10: - Satanic Rebellion Crushed

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where also the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now if you can show me the verse that you believe shown that Christ rules the earth from the face of the earth, then I would be obliged to you if you can show me where in the scriptures that this is stated emphatically.

Shalom
 

Davidpt

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No, I am not SDA, they would not want me among their ranks as I would be question what they believe as well, pointing out the flaws in their understanding. In my posted response to you I only quoted the scriptures.

In searching the scriptures, I have not found any reference to the 1,000 years of the Priestly rule of Christ taking place on the face of the earth. Rev 19 actually suggests that Christ comes down with an army after the 1,000 years of the imprisonment of the Heavenly Hosts and the Kings of the earth, to deal initially with the Beast and the False prophet after they have done their thing towards the end of the little while period just before Satan is captured and is also dispatched into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:7-10: - Satanic Rebellion Crushed

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where also the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now if you can show me the verse that you believe shown that Christ rules the earth from the face of the earth, then I would be obliged to you if you can show me where in the scriptures that this is stated emphatically.

Shalom

Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.


I take it that you are factoring in this passage, correct? The way I interpret the above, which may differ from the way you interpret it, is like such.

Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:


after that he must be loosed a little season----after many days shall they be visited

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

IOW, I see Isaiah 24:22 and this---And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison---being the beginning of the thousand years. While I see Revelation 20:7-15 being when they are visited after the thousand years. Which then means when they are shut up in the prison, this is parallelling when those who have part in the first resurrection are living and reigning with Christ a thousand years.

It then boils down to, when does this initially happen---And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison? Does that happen a thousand or maybe even thousands of years prior to the 2nd coming? Or does that happen during the 2nd coming? If the former, it then appears to agree with what you are proposing. If the latter, it then appears to disagree with what you are proposing.
 
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PinSeeker

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That's reasonable. And the way I look at things in general, if something is at least reasonable, it should then at least be worthy of considering. You haven't changed my mind at this point, but I do at least admit that what you have submitted, that it is reasonable.
Thank you for that, David. Not that I really deserve any credit, but what you say here is a breath of fresh air for me... compared to a lot of other things on this board. Yeah, a breath of fresh air. Thanks, my friend.

Now if Amils could only convincingly show me how it's reasonable that this in verse 6---and shall be priests of God and Christ--somehow makes sense in regards to someone in heaven in a disembodied state?

but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Are the ones in a disembodied state still reigning with Him a thousand years per Amil?
Well, during the millennium, yes. Being a little picky here, but reigning with Him in the "thousand years," the millennium. It may not seem like it at first blush, but there's a difference. But yes.

If yes, one then also has to apply---but they shall be priests of God and of Christ--to them while they are in a disembodied state.
From the point we are born again, and members of God's Israel, David, yes, we are prophets, priests, and kings.

Prophets: We are not prophets in the same sense as Isaiah, Amos, and Micah (among others, of course) were; the age of prophecy ended with John's Revelation. A prophet’s primary function in the Old Testament was to serve as God’s representative or ambassador by communicating God’s Word to His people. God no longer communicates through the prophets of old, as Hebrews 1:1-4 indicates ("Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son"). On the day of Pentecost, Peter declared that unlike the more limited exercise of prophecy during the time of the old covenant, God would henceforth pour out his Spirit “on all people." Peter said the result would be a fulfillment of God words: “Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on My servants, both men and women, I will pour out My Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy" (Acts 2:17-18). To make a long story long... :) ...today, we exercise our office as prophets by speaking the words of God (in the Bible) to those who will listen, by sharing the Gospel with them. In this way, we are called to be spiritual shepherds... to prophesy.

I'll cut to the chase on the other two... :)

Priests: We are called to intercede for our family before God; Jesus, as our High Priest, intercedes constantly for us even now.

Kings: God has firmly written into the nature of every person to lead, provide for, and defend ~ especially spiritually ~ those in his or her charge; and this is especially true for men with their families.

In short:
  • We are prophets if we confess His Name, (Matthew 10:32, Romans 10:9-10, Hebrews 13:15; we do so in this life and in our disembodied state)
  • We are priests if we present ourselves as living sacrifices of thankfulness to Him (Romans 12:1, 1 Peter 2:5-9; we do this also in this life and in our disembodied state)
  • We are kings if we fight with a free and good conscience against sin and the devil in this life (Galatians 5:16-17, Ephesians 6:11, 1 Timothy 1:18-19), and hereafter reign with Him eternally over all creatures (Matthew 25:34, 2 Timothy 2:12).

Are all Amils Catholic or something?
Some are, I think; I'm not Catholic. But Catholicism... well, has its problems... :)

Don't Catholics believe that departed saints can be and should be prayed to? That departed saints have influence over those back on earth? So on and so on.
They do. Yes, that's... bad. :)

Grace and peace to you, David.
 

Marty fox

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Perhaps this is true, however the future context of Rev 20:4 is that Jesus will raise up the beheaded saints because oof their faith in Him and who do not have the mark of the beast to reign with Him in the heavenly for 1,000 years as priests. It is my view that this will happen in around 20 years' time when Satan will be judged as recorded in Isiaih 24:21-22.

However, Paul is presenting a present context for all the saints.

Ephesians 2:6: - and will raise us up together, and seat us together in the heavenly places along side of Christ Jesus,

Colessians 2: 12: - buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Colossians 3:1: - If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.

In other words, live your life in full relationship with Christ.

It is my understanding that the context of both verses is very different.

In Ephesian 2:6, Colossians 2:12 and 3:1, we are all to live our lives in our present circumstances as if we have no other hope but in Christ.

Shalom
Fair enough I believe that it has already happened and is still happening today when saints are martyred

I believe that John was being told that we will still reign with Christ even after death
 

Jay Ross

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It then boils down to, when does this initially happen---And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison? Does that happen a thousand or maybe even thousands of years prior to the 2nd coming? Or does that happen during the 2nd coming? If the former, it then appears to agree with what you are proposing. If the latter, it then appears to disagree with what you are proposing.

Let me initially suggest to you that I believe that Rev 19 and Rev 20 are parallel accounts that occur during the seventh age. Rev 19's subject is predominately focus on Christ while Rev 20 is predominately focused on Satan.

Let me also suggest to you that the beasts and Little Horn of Daniel 7 are wicked angels who have rebelled with Satan against God. The beast entities have no human form but are able to influence people to manifest their mentioned prominent characteristic and act in the described manner as revealed in the scriptures.

So, from my study of the scriptures, it is my understanding that in around 20 years' time, the following will unfold: -

1. - the visitation of the iniquities of the Jewish fathers upon their children's children during the fourth age/generation will have completed its time span. (Exodus 20:4-6)
2. - That the time span of 2,300 years of the Little Horn being given armies to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts will have drawn to its logical end.
3. - That after the fulness with respect to time of the gentiles is completed, i.e., the 2,300 years of Daniel 8:13-14 of trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, that all of Israel will be saved. (Rom 11:25b-26)
4. - That God will begin gathering all of Israel to Himself and plant them in His fertile fields scattered throughout all of the earth and will teach them on the message contained in the rock that comes down out of heaven that then becomes the largest mountain/Religion in all of the earth.
5. - That Rev 16:14-16 and Isaiah 24:21-22 will play out around this same time and the judgement of Kings of the earth will occur on the face of the earth and at the same time, the heavenly hosts will also be judged and imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment, nominally for 1,000 years.
6. - It is my understanding that in around 20 years, time that the Saints who have been beheaded for their faith will take part in the first resurrection to become priests with Christ and rule with Him for 1,000 years.

It is during this 1,000-year period of peace on the earth that the great Harvest of Saved Souls will occur.

Then after the 1,000 years an angel will descend from heaven to unlock the Bottomless pit and release the Kings of the earth, the beast, now an amalgamation of the four beasts of Daniel 7:2-8, the Little Horn, now described as the false Prophet and Satan and over a little while period they will all try to upsurge God to enable Satan to become a deity in place of God.

After Rev 13 when we will see the rebellion against God taking place in and around Jerusalem and people being forced to take the mark of the beast the Jesus comes down out of Heaven to do battle with the Beast and the False Prophet and their armies and we see the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 and the Birds of the air and the beasts of the field will devour the slain bodies littered across the land surrounding Jerusalem.

Then Jesus will capture the beast and the Little Horn and dispatch them into the Lake of Fire and God will send down fire from heaven and Satan too will be dispatched into the Lake of Fire. This last event takes place towards the very end of the seventh age and when Christ returns with all of His heavenly hosts and descend from heaven to the earth on the clouds the final judgement of all of the peoples of the earth will take place.

I hope that the above clarifies my position.

Shalom
 
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