Paul's Thorn In The Flesh=Not a Sickness but a Messenger of Satan to buffet me.

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GISMYS_7

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Paul's Thorn In The Flesh=Not a Sickness but a Messenger of Satan to buffet me.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”
(2 Cor. 12:7-10
In vers
eaching...s/pauls_thorn/
e 7, right after the thorn in the flesh is mentioned, there is a phrase set off by commas which says, “The messenger of Satan to buffet me.” This is an explanation of what the thorn was. It was not a thing but rather a demonic messenger. The word used as “messenger” here is always translated as angel or messenger and refers to a created being. So, Paul’s thorn was literally a demon sent from Satan to buffet him.
http://www.awmi.net/reading/t
 

Helen

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Paul's Thorn In The Flesh=Not a Sickness but a Messenger of Satan to buffet me.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”
(2 Cor. 12:7-10
In vers
e 7, right after the thorn in the flesh is mentioned, there is a phrase set off by commas which says, “The messenger of Satan to buffet me.” This is an explanation of what the thorn was. It was not a thing but rather a demonic messenger. The word used as “messenger” here is always translated as angel or messenger and refers to a created being. So, Paul’s thorn was literally a demon sent from Satan to buffet him.
http://www.awmi.net/reading/t

AMEN..100% agree. :)

That is the best post you have made!! ( INHO)
 
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Hidden In Him

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Paul's Thorn In The Flesh=Not a Sickness but a Messenger of Satan to buffet me.

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”
(2 Cor. 12:7-10
In vers
e 7, right after the thorn in the flesh is mentioned, there is a phrase set off by commas which says, “The messenger of Satan to buffet me.” This is an explanation of what the thorn was. It was not a thing but rather a demonic messenger. The word used as “messenger” here is always translated as angel or messenger and refers to a created being. So, Paul’s thorn was literally a demon sent from Satan to buffet him.
http://www.awmi.net/reading/t

Very good! Wommack's teaching is actually improving on this passage. He once taught it somewhat differently, but his presentation of it now is exactly as I have been teaching it for years. There is more to it as well.

Very glad to see he has it nailed now!
Thanks for posting.
 
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quietthinker

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Could it be possible that he had poor eyesight resulting from perhaps his Damascus road experience? In one of his communications that apparently he wrote himself he refers to the large letters (large print) he is using implying that other letters he sent were dictated.
When it comes to being tormented by demons I'm certain that all those who take on the name of Jesus will experience that.
 

Hidden In Him

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When it comes to being tormented by demons I'm certain that all those who take on the name of Jesus will experience that.

Greetings Quiet Thinker! I enjoy your posts and your spirit.

About this, the reference was more to the demon being assigned by Satan specifically to instigate persecution against him, rather than merely torment him. To quote the article, "So, in context, Paul’s thorn was a demonic angel or messenger sent by Satan which continually stirred up persecution against him.” So it was a little more than just a demon that was tormenting him in some way. That it was behind the persecution being raised against him is also suggested by the context, since at the end of the previous Chapter he lists all the different types of persecution he suffered, with the implication that no matter where he went Satan was causing all kinds of hell for him to try and silence him from preaching the exceedingly great revelations God had given him (2 Corinthians 11:24-28).
Could it be possible that he had poor eyesight resulting from perhaps his Damascus road experience? In one of his communications that apparently he wrote himself he refers to the large letters (large print) he is using implying that other letters he sent were dictated.

This is indeed the common interpretation here, but actually Paul was drawing attention to how much he was willing to go out of his way to share everything with them that God had given him. To explain that one in context would be quite a bit of work, though. Usually that's a very poorly understood passage.
 
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quietthinker

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PATIENCE

A bleeding brow, a battered face
The shredded flesh, some called it grace!
A thief that saw rebuked his own
And glimpsed what only few had known

A flickering hope, a public plea
The answer given, you will be free
That desperate cry not left unheard
This smouldering wick not quenched not spurned

Lord teach me how to hear the deaf
Embrace that weakness of the flesh
That weakness that in judgement sits
And batters faces with its sticks
 

Hidden In Him

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PATIENCE

A bleeding brow, a battered face
The shredded flesh, some called it grace!
A thief that saw rebuked his own
And glimpsed what only few had known

A flickering hope, a public plea
The answer given, you will be free
That desperate cry not left unheard
This smouldering wick not quenched not spurned

Lord teach me how to hear the deaf
Embrace that weakness of the flesh
That weakness that in judgement sits
And batters faces with its sticks

Stunning.
And how beautiful it is when a soul turns from darkness to light, through grace and mercy (James 5:20).
 

Enoch111

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...Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities... Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities...
These statements DEBUNK the notion that Paul's thorn in the flesh was some kind of demon. That word "infirmities" means weaknesses or illnesses:

Strong's Concordance

astheneia: weakness, frailty
Original Word: ἀσθένεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: astheneia
Phonetic Spelling: (as-then'-i-ah)
Short Definition: want of strength, weakness, illness
Definition: want of strength, weakness, illness, suffering, calamity, frailty.

That thorn in "the flesh" (Paul's body) was some kind of disability or infirmity causing physical weakness. Some have suggested that his legs were affected, others have suggested that his eyesight was affected, since he signed his epistles with large letters.

An infirmity can also be a "messenger from Satan" as Scripture amply proves.

LUKE 13 -- CRIPPLED WOMAN WITH SPIRIT OF INFIRMITY
10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity
[PLEASE NOTE] eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her,Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound,[PLEASE NOTE] lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
 

Hidden In Him

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Strong's Concordance
astheneia: weakness, frailty
Original Word: ἀσθένεια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: astheneia
Phonetic Spelling: (as-then'-i-ah)
Short Definition: want of strength, weakness, illness
Definition: want of strength, weakness, illness, suffering, calamity, frailty.

LoL. I once had a friend who posted this sort of thing all the time, but no one needs to know phonetic spelling, transliteration, English translation or the fact that it's a feminine noun, Enoch. It's like irrelevant overkill, LoL. :) What's important is Greek usage in the LXX and the NT especially, with examples from Classical usage also helpful on occasion.
That thorn in "the flesh" (Paul's body) was some kind of disability or infirmity causing physical weakness. Some have suggested that his legs were affected, others have suggested that his eyesight was affected, since he signed his epistles with large letters.

"some kind of" + "suggested" + "suggested" = just guessing. The fact is, Enoch, there is no absolutely evidence on any of this from early church sources. If Paul had some form of physical infirmity that he was talking about in this passage, someone would have made mention of it. But nothing is passed down in Christian tradition from the Ante-Nicene at all. Zero. It's just widely held modern tradition, based on nothing other than pure speculation. It's backed up by nothing.
An infirmity can also be a "messenger from Satan" as Scripture amply proves.

LUKE 13 -- CRIPPLED WOMAN WITH SPIRIT OF INFIRMITY
10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity
[PLEASE NOTE] eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her,Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?


16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound,[PLEASE NOTE] lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Yes. There is such a thing as a spirit of infirmity through which Satan binds one, as was the case here. But this spirit is a far cry from what Paul was dealing with. The demon Paul described was an angel of Satan (probably a high ranking one) sent to buffet him. It means BEAT upon him, not merely bind him. Why? Because of the exceedingly great revelations that had been given him. It was trying to silence him by raising persecution against him, and he was trying to explain how he knew what the driving force was behind why he was always being physically beaten (2 Corinthians 11:24-25; Galatians 6:17; Colossians 1:24; 1 Thessalonians 2:2). Paul was not "bound" to having to be carried around by people. He was fully functional and travelled everywhere. He even worked continually to support not only himself but Timothy and Silas (1 Thessalonians 2:9; Acts 20:33-34). The only "infirmities" he ever talked about were when he was beaten for the sake of the gospel.
 
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Helen

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Could it be possible that he had poor eyesight resulting from perhaps his Damascus road experience? In one of his communications that apparently he wrote himself he refers to the large letters (large print) he is using implying that other letters he sent were dictated.
When it comes to being tormented by demons I'm certain that all those who take on the name of Jesus will experience that.

I heard that long ago...but threw it out as soon as I heard it. Ha!
Sounds like a man trying to make something fit, which isn't really there at all!

I believe Paul meant just what he said...when he told us what it was... "a messenger of Satan ..." So, why do we believe the other things that Paul tells us, ybut don't believe something that he clearly says? hmmmm

Bless you :)
 

Enoch111

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I believe Paul meant just what he said...when he told us what it was... "a messenger of Satan ..." So, why do we believe the other things that Paul tells us, ybut don't believe something that he clearly says?
But Paul said BOTH "a messenger of Satan" or well as "my infirmities" (twice). A fundamental principle of interpreting Scripture is to allow that which is easily understood to clarify that which is not. So this "messenger of Satan" was an infirmity foisted on Paul by Satan which God would not remove, because His grace is made perfect in "weakness" (which is also on of the meanings of astheneia = infirmity). The woman crippled by Satan is a parallel example (see my post #8).

To imagine that a demon was sitting on Paul's shoulder while he went about his apostolic endeavors with great power and authority is quite absurd. This man wrote over half th New Testament, and traveled on his missionary journeys more than any other apostle.

But to believe that Paul was hindered by some physical disability is more than credible, since he mentioned his infirmities several times in this context. He had been beaten, stoned, and suffered shipwreck. Is it any wonder if he had suffered serious injuries and rendered infirm?
 

Hidden In Him

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A fundamental principle of interpreting Scripture is to allow that which is easily understood to clarify that which is not. So this "messenger of Satan" was an infirmity foisted on Paul...

Enoch, the Greek word άγγελος is used 176 times in scripture. Since you believe in "fundamental principles of interpreting Scripture":
1. How many of those 176 times is it translated using the word "angel"? And please answer. No offense, but I find it annoying when people engage me in a debate and then evade answering direct questions.
To imagine that a demon was sitting on Paul's shoulder while he went about his apostolic endeavors with great power and authority is quite absurd. This man wrote over half th New Testament, and traveled on his missionary journeys more than any other apostle.

So then your position is that the more authority a believer has in Christ, the more Satan simply leaves him alone?
2. What scriptures do you have to support this position?
(see my post #8)... Is it any wonder if he had suffered serious injuries and [was] rendered infirm?

And I saw Post #8 and responded. You did not respond to mine.
3. How does scripture state plainly that Paul was working day and night to support himself, Silas and Timothy if he had been "rendered infirm" by serious injuries?
4. Since he wrote half the NT, don't you think someone somewhere in church history would have known what they were and mentioned them specifically?

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden
 
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Frank Lee

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JMO but I've always thought Paul's thorn was the memories of those poor people he helped put to death. Physical pain is not nearly what continual thoughts and satanic attacks over those you helped kill. Their faces and words would return again and again.
 

oldhermit

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It has been a very long time since I have posted on this site but, I would like to examine this question of Paul's thorn in the flesh.
Let us open up the context of chapters 11 and 12.

The context is Paul's defense of his apostleship. If one is able to boast according to the standard of the flesh, then he has more reason to boast than anyone else and he begins to compile a list of reasons to prove why this is true, 11:16-28. Beginning in verse 22, he says, "Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I." These are all genealogical factors that he has in common with all other Jews. Then in verse 23, he begins to set forth a list of comparisons in which he is proven to excel above them all. "Are they servants of Christ? (I speak as if insane) I MORE SO; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death."

24. “Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes.”
25. “Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep.”
26. “I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;
27. “I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.”
28. “Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. From 11:29 through 12:8 he stresses the fact that these are all things that Paul regards as weaknesses of the flesh. These are things that are hard to endure and that he had the right to boast in the fact that he has suffered in the flesh more than all of them. In 12:6 he says that he does not wish to boast in these things, "... but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me."

In verse 7, he gives the paramount reason for his capacity for boasting which was "the surpassing greatness of the revelations." To keep him from boasting and exalting himself in this he was given a "thorn in the flesh." The "thorn" represents something that is external to the flesh but that is intrusive to the flesh. In spite of his petition from God to remove it, God says "My grace is sufficient for you." It is not through Paul's own power that he is able to endure these suffering that have been imposed upon his flesh (not to mention the psychological stress that accompanies these types of experiences), it was the grace of God that enabled him to endure them and to continue to preach in spite of them. The connecting statement that links all of this to gather is in verse 10 when he says, "THEREFORE." Whatever he says next is rooted in everything he has said up to this point and he connects it to the thorn that was given him. "Therefore, I am well content with weaknesses, insults, distresses, persecutions, and difficulties for Christ's sake. Why? Because "when I am weak THEN I am strong." The thorn made him weak. The grace made him strong. NOW, he is able to rejoice in his sufferings - in his thorn.

So, because of the "the surpassing greatness of the revelations," Paul was allowed to suffer all of these hardships - thorn in the flesh - in order to keep him from exalting himself. One is not so likely to be self-exalting when he is having the hide stripped from his back with a scourge or having to go hungry or floating around in the sea or having his bones broken from being beaten with rods or lying in a pit left for dead after having been stoned. God allowed these things so that Paul would learn humility in spite of the exalted status that God had granted him. Remember what God told Ananias in Acts 9:16 "I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."

I know this is a very brief exegesis of this text and I certainly do not claim it to be infallible. It is possible that I have missed it but, it seems to me that Paul has been very clear in explaining the nature of the thorn that he had been given. If anyone has a better exegesis of this text than this, I am certainly open to correction.

His problem with his eyesight has been a favored speculation even among many commentators. We do know from Gal. 6:11 that Paul seems to have had some type of deficiency with his eyes but the nature of what the thorn was seems very clearly defined in the context of 2Cor. 12. Paul uses three different descriptive terms all of which refer to the same thing. He calls it a 'thorn in the flesh', a 'messenger from Satan', and 'my weaknesses'. These weaknesses are not of a singular nature. They are described as insults, distresses, persecutions, and difficulties all of which are in the plural. I do not doubt that his seeming deficiency with his eyes would certainly fall within this menagerie of weaknesses. The 'thorn in the flesh' is simply a descriptive term which he employed to describe a host of things he was called to endure for the cause of Christ. Their purpose was to keep him humble in the midst of his exalted position. It is hard to be proud and self-exalting when someone is beating the hide off of your back with a scourge or breaking your bones with rods or stoning you. These types of experiences are by their very nature, humbling.
 
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Hidden In Him

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It has been a very long time since I have posted on this site but, I would like to examine this question of Paul's thorn in the flesh.
Let us open up the context of chapters 11 and 12.

The context is Paul's defense of his apostleship. If one is able to boast according to the standard of the flesh, then he has more reason to boast than anyone else and he begins to compile a list of reasons to prove why this is true, 11:16-28. Beginning in verse 22, he says, "Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I." These are all genealogical factors that he has in common with all other Jews. Then in verse 23, he begins to set forth a list of comparisons in which he is proven to excel above them all. "Are they servants of Christ? (I speak as if insane) I MORE SO; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death."

24. “Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes.”
25. “Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep.”
26. “I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;
27. “I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.”
28. “Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. From 11:29 through 12:8 he stresses the fact that these are all things that Paul regards as weaknesses of the flesh. These are things that are hard to endure and that he had the right to boast in the fact that he has suffered in the flesh more than all of them. In 12:6 he says that he does not wish to boast in these things, "... but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me."

In verse 7, he gives the paramount reason for his capacity for boasting which was "the surpassing greatness of the revelations." To keep him from boasting and exalting himself in this he was given a "thorn in the flesh." The "thorn" represents something that is external to the flesh but that is intrusive to the flesh. In spite of his petition from God to remove it, God says "My grace is sufficient for you." It is not through Paul's own power that he is able to endure these suffering that have been imposed upon his flesh (not to mention the psychological stress that accompanies these types of experiences), it was the grace of God that enabled him to endure them and to continue to preach in spite of them. The connecting statement that links all of this to gather is in verse 10 when he says, "THEREFORE." Whatever he says next is rooted in everything he has said up to this point and he connects it to the thorn that was given him. "Therefore, I am well content with weaknesses, insults, distresses, persecutions, and difficulties for Christ's sake. Why? Because "when I am weak THEN I am strong." The thorn made him weak. The grace made him strong. NOW, he is able to rejoice in his sufferings - in his thorn.

So, because of the "the surpassing greatness of the revelations," Paul was allowed to suffer all of these hardships - thorn in the flesh - in order to keep him from exalting himself. One is not so likely to be self-exalting when he is having the hide stripped from his back with a scourge or having to go hungry or floating around in the sea or having his bones broken from being beaten with rods or lying in a pit left for dead after having been stoned. God allowed these things so that Paul would learn humility in spite of the exalted status that God had granted him. Remember what God told Ananias in Acts 9:16 "I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."

I know this is a very brief exegesis of this text and I certainly do not claim it to be infallible. It is possible that I have missed it but, it seems to me that Paul has been very clear in explaining the nature of the thorn that he had been given. If anyone has a better exegesis of this text than this, I am certainly open to correction.

His problem with his eyesight has been a favored speculation even among many commentators. We do know from Gal. 6:11 that Paul seems to have had some type of deficiency with his eyes but the nature of what the thorn was seems very clearly defined in the context of 2Cor. 12. Paul uses three different descriptive terms all of which refer to the same thing. He calls it a 'thorn in the flesh', a 'messenger from Satan', and 'my weaknesses'. These weaknesses are not of a singular nature. They are described as insults, distresses, persecutions, and difficulties all of which are in the plural. I do not doubt that his seeming deficiency with his eyes would certainly fall within this menagerie of weaknesses. The 'thorn in the flesh' is simply a descriptive term which he employed to describe a host of things he was called to endure for the cause of Christ. Their purpose was to keep him humble in the midst of his exalted position. It is hard to be proud and self-exalting when someone is beating the hide off of your back with a scourge or breaking your bones with rods or stoning you. These types of experiences are by their very nature, humbling.

Greetings, Old Hermit, and blessings to you in Christ!

Your post is so humbly put forward that I almost would rather not challenge it, even though it is the traditional interpretation and in line with Enoch's argument, both of which I fully oppose. But you seem so humble and non-confrontational, LoL....

But if you could, what would be your counter to my posts in this thread?

Nice to see you at this Forum again. I'm a relatively new member and I like this particular community a lot.
 

oldhermit

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What precisely would you like to challenge in my post?
 

Hidden In Him

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Ok, let's start here:
In verse 7, he gives the paramount reason for his capacity for boasting which was "the surpassing greatness of the revelations." To keep him from boasting and exalting himself in this he was given a "thorn in the flesh" ...

So, because of the "the surpassing greatness of the revelations," Paul was allowed to suffer all of these hardships - thorn in the flesh - in order to keep him from exalting himself. One is not so likely to be self-exalting when he is having the hide stripped from his back with a scourge

Now I noticed you never actually mentioned Satan in your interpretation. Let me start by asking you what part Satan was playing, i.e. what he was trying to accomplish by sending this "messenger" to Paul?
 

oldhermit

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First, this is not an interpretation, it is a generalization of revealed principles. As to the question of Satan's involvement, Satan is the instigator of all persecution of the saints and men are used by Satan to accomplish this. What Satan did to Paul, he also did to Job. Whether one chooses to believe this was accomplished through some demon sent by Satan is really immaterial. The end result was the same. You also have to remember that ἄγγελος does not always refer to a supernatural being.
 
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Hidden In Him

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As to the question of Satan's involvement, Satan is the instigator of all persecution of the saints and men are used by Satan to accomplish this. What Satan did to Paul, he also did to Job.

Ah! Job is a good example, because Satan clearly used people to carry out his attacks against Job. Excellent that you should mention him.
As to the question of Satan's involvement, Satan is the instigator of all persecution of the saints and men are used by Satan to accomplish this

Very good. We are in complete agreement here.
You also have to remember that ἄγγελος does not always refer to a supernatural being.

I understand, but my question to Enoch on this was that if the word is used 176 times in the NT and translated "Angel" all but 2 of those times, certainly some weight should be carried in considering this the proper translation, particularly when the extended phrase is an "angel of Satan," who himself is the leader of fallen angels.
Whether one chooses to believe this was accomplished through some demon sent by Satan is really immaterial.

Ok, now here is why I was asking. So long as we agree this "messenger" was sent by Satan as the text states it was, then most certainly Satan had to have some objective in sending it. So again, what do you believe his objective was in doing so?

Blessings. Btw, please try to quote me when you respond. If not, I won't get the notification that you have, and I'm kinda all over the place right now.