PETER AND PAUL PREACHED DIFFERENT GOSPELS

[Enoch111]

It's been the same Gospel since Adam, not just the church age.

Yes and No. Justification has always been by grace through faith, but the promise of the Holy Spirit and the outpouring of the Spirit could not occur until and unless Christ was crucified, resurrected, ascended, and exalted. And the Church Age began on the day of Pentecost. That is why we have this statement in Acts 2:47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved.

 

[Randy Kluth]

It's been the same Gospel since Adam, not just the church age.

I think I know where you're coming from, but in a sense, this would be impossible. You can't have a gospel of salvation until Adam sinned. That is, this would be true unless you believe that God predestined man to sin, which I don't believe.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The way I would look at it is that the different writers had their own backgrounds and emphases but it was the same Gospel in the church age.

From the beginning, ie since the Fall, God has predetermined that He would send His Son to die on the cross. In other words, the Gospel has been anticipated since the Fall.

The Bible also says the Gospel, in a preliminary sense, was foreshadowed in the promise God made to Abraham, to become father of all nations. So even while the Law was in effect, effectively excluding the nations, the Gospel of Christ was anticipated. There is no room here for "Dispensationalist" separation between the Church and Israel.

 

[reformed1689]

The church is a heavenly people (Ephesians 2); after the Rapture, the tribulation saints won't be in the church, even though all true justification is by faith.

No that is wrong on so many levels.

 

[reformed1689]

I think I know where you're coming from, but in a sense, this would be impossible. You can't have a gospel of salvation until Adam sinned. That is, this would be true unless you believe that God predestined man to sin, which I don't believe.

God ordained that man would sin. But correct, there was no Gospel at all before the Fall because it wasn't necessary. But I wasn't speaking of pre-fall.

 

[reformed1689]

Yes and No. Justification has always been by grace through faith, but the promise of the Holy Spirit and the outpouring of the Spirit could not occur until and unless Christ was crucified, resurrected, ascended, and exalted. And the Church Age began on the day of Pentecost. That is why we have this statement in Acts 2:47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved.

That's not a different Gospel. That's the same agent of Salvation throughout history.

 

[farouk]

From the beginning, ie since the Fall, God has predetermined that He would send His Son to die on the cross. In other words, the Gospel has been anticipated since the Fall.

The Bible also says the Gospel, in a preliminary sense, was foreshadowed in the promise God made to Abraham, to become father of all nations. So even while the Law was in effect, effectively excluding the nations, the Gospel of Christ was anticipated. There is no room here for "Dispensationalist" separation between the Church and Israel.

We see things very differently!

 

[farouk]

No that is wrong on so many levels.

We see things very differently!

 

[Enoch111]

That's not a different Gospel. That's the same agent of Salvation throughout history.

Since you just don't get it, we will leave it at that.

 

[Doug]

Surely you know John 3:16 was written well after the crucifixion and you need to take the WHOLE book, not just parts of it.

Right...the whole book rightly divided

 

[Doug]

No. Burden of proof is on you to show that he preached something different.

There are no verses in which Peter preaches Paul's gospel

 

[Enoch111]

There is no room here for "Dispensationalist" separation between the Church and Israel.

Evidently you have failed to study the matter. So here is the Scripture separating the Church from redeemed and restored Israel.

ROMANS 11: REDEEMED AND RESTORED ISRAEL

ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH ARE SEPARATE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [Note: the Church has become primarily a Gentile Church during the Church Age, while unbelieving Israel is spiritually blind. Following the Rapture, God will resume His dealings with Israel]

ALL (BELIEVING) ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED
26 And so all Israel shall be saved... [Note: only those who repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ at His Second Coming are saved out of Israel. Apparently one-third of the Jews at that time]

CHRIST IS THE DELIVERER WHO WILL DELIVER ISRAEL FROM ITS ENEMIES AS WELL AS FROM SIN AND WICKEDNESS
...as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob... 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

ISRAEL IS BELOVED BECAUSE OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB ("THE FATHERS")
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [Note: "the election" means the redeemed elect (saved) of Israel after the Second Coming]

GOD HAS NOT CHANGED HIS MIND OR HIS COVENANT
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

THE UNBELIEF OF ISRAEL RESULTED IN THE SALVATION OF GENTILES
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

THEREFORE ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE WILL ALSO OBTAIN MERCY
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

GOD WILL HAVE MERCY ON ALL
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

NO ONE CAN FATHOM THE UNSEARCHABLE WAYS OF GOD
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

TO GOD BELONGS ALL THE GLORY
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Obviously this will all come as a shock to you. But now you have two clear choices: (1) believe God and abandon all your FALSE theology or (2) cling to your false theology and ignore what God says (to your own peril).

 

[Doug]

You've completely made that up. Not a shred of evidence for that, that I know of?

I said "That is wrongful application...Jesus taught Peter the gospel he preached. The gospel Peter preached was set aside until the future tribulation."

Peter ordained to preach his gospel of the kingdom Galatians 2:7

Preaching the gospel of the kingdom
until the end Matthew 24:14

 

[farouk]

I must admit that where 1 Corinthians 10.32 speaks of Jews, Gentiles and the church of God, these three distinctions among people make for helpful Scriptural definitions.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Nor a shred of evidence that @Doug has shown either.

Thank you, brother. Good to know w

I said "That is wrongful application...Jesus taught Peter the gospel he preached. The gospel Peter preached was set aside until the future tribulation."

Peter ordained to preach his gospel of the kingdom Galatians 2:7

Preaching the gospel of the kingdom
until the end Matthew 24:14

It's crazy to think Peter set aside a Gospel he was ordained to immediately take first to his own countrymen, and then to all nations.

The gospel of the Kingdom is the very Gospel Jesus preached. It was the one he gave to his apostles. And Paul considered himself a 13th apostle, or at least another in the same mold.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Evidently you have failed to study the matter. So here is the Scripture separating the Church from redeemed and restored Israel.

ROMANS 11: REDEEMED AND RESTORED ISRAEL

ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH ARE SEPARATE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [Note: the Church has become primarily a Gentile Church during the Church Age, while unbelieving Israel is spiritually blind. Following the Rapture, God will resume His dealings with Israel]

ALL (BELIEVING) ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED
26 And so all Israel shall be saved... [Note: only those who repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ at His Second Coming are saved out of Israel. Apparently one-third of the Jews at that time]

CHRIST IS THE DELIVERER WHO WILL DELIVER ISRAEL FROM ITS ENEMIES AS WELL AS FROM SIN AND WICKEDNESS
...as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob... 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

ISRAEL IS BELOVED BECAUSE OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB ("THE FATHERS")
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [Note: "the election" means the redeemed elect (saved) of Israel after the Second Coming]

GOD HAS NOT CHANGED HIS MIND OR HIS COVENANT
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

THE UNBELIEF OF ISRAEL RESULTED IN THE SALVATION OF GENTILES
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

THEREFORE ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE WILL ALSO OBTAIN MERCY
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

GOD WILL HAVE MERCY ON ALL
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

NO ONE CAN FATHOM THE UNSEARCHABLE WAYS OF GOD
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

TO GOD BELONGS ALL THE GLORY
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Obviously this will all come as a shock to you. But now you have two clear choices: (1) believe God and abandon all your FALSE theology or (2) cling to your false theology and ignore what God says (to your own peril).

How can it come as a shock to me? I memorized all this back in the early 70s. I agree there are distinctions between nations and ethnicities and have always said this. Rom 9-11 is predicated on this, and on the idea Israel is a distinct nation with distinct promises.

But it is another thing to say that Dispensationalist Theology is true, that Israel has a separate time and standard for salvation than other nations. Yes, Israel has its own times and seasons for coming to national salvation, but all may equally have access to salvation in the present age--both Jew and non-Jew. This opportunity does not await the salvation or Christianization of any nation.

Israel will, as a nation, be saved at Christ's coming, whereas other nations have become Christian in the present age. They all have their own time in which they can come to salvation as nations. But salvation is equally available to all in the present age, whether it is immediately accepted or not.

The difference is, each nation has its own time to come to salvation as a nation, but all nations have the same basis for salvation and share the same opportunity for salvation now, among the individuals that comprise those nations.

In other words, individual Jews have the same opportunity to get saved as individuals in all other nations, and share that potential in the present age. But nations embrace salvation as a country in different times.

We've seen many nations become Christian nations in the present age. But we know Israel's time of national salvation will be when Christ comes back.

That is not Dispensational Theology. Rather, these are just dispensational and national distinctions, which I'm fully on board with.

 

[Randy Kluth]

God ordained that man would sin. But correct, there was no Gospel at all before the Fall because it wasn't necessary. But I wasn't speaking of pre-fall.

I don't at all believe God "ordained that man would sin." That would be contradictory and schizophrenic for God to do this (no disrespect for Him intended).

I'm just saying that God's word says He did not originally intend for Man to sin, and told Him not to quite explicitly. To plan Man's demise would run contrary to God's holy character and benevolent nature, which would *never* want Man to separate from Him by sinning.

But I will go this far. God was the same before the Fall as He is after the Fall. The same God before Man sinned had in mind a remedy for sin should Man choose that option. So all was anticipated, even if not "ordained."

 

[marksman]

Peter and Paul did not preach the same gospel messages. Below are the differences between the gospels and Apostleship's of Peter and Paul.

Peter's Apostleship: His Apostleship was commanded by Jesus Christ along with the other eleven disciples before Paul. Peter was primarily the Apostle to Israel (Galatians 2:8). Peter's Apostleship was diminishing after Paul was converted.

Paul's Apostleship: Paul was persecuting the church of God before being converted. After his conversion Paul was given revelations from the Lord Jesus Christ; Paul did not learn from any man including the twelve Apostles (Galatians 1:12). Paul was primarily the Apostle to Gentiles (Romans 11:13 2 Timothy 1:11).

Peter's Justification: Peter and the other eleven Apostles taught justification unto eternal life by believing on the name of Jesus; by believing Jesus is Christ, the Son of God (Acts 10:43 Matthew 16:16 Acts 4:12 Acts 2:36 John 20:31).

Peter preached that Israel under the old covenant was redeemed and cleansed by the crucifixion and shed blood of Jesus (Matthew 26:28 Hebrews 9:15 1 Peter 1:2 1 Peter 1:18-19 1 Peter 2:24). Peter preached forgiveness of sin at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 3:19).

Paul's Justification: Paul taught justification unto eternal life by the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 Galatians 6:14 Colossians 1:20). Justification by faith that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again for complete salvation unto eternal life (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Colossians 2:10). Paul taught forgiveness of all sin now by the blood of Jesus (Ephesians 1:7).

Peter's gospel: Peter preached remission of sins in the name of Jesus (Acts 10:43). Peter taught the gospel of the kingdom (Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6 2 Peter 1:11). Israel would inherit the promise of the Davidic kingdom on earth (Luke 1:32 Genesis 13:15). Israel would rule and reign with Jesus for a thousand year period (Revelation 20:6). Israel would be a light for salvation unto the Gentile nations that would enter the kingdom (Isaiah 60:3).

Paul's gospel: Paul taught the gospel of the uncircumcision (Galatians 2:7). Paul taught salvation to all freely by faith in Christ apart from the covenants of Israel, and apart from keeping the law (Romans 9:4 Romans 3:28 Galatians 2:19).

Peter and the resurrection: Peter preached the gospel of the circumcision (Galatians 2:7). Israel under the old covenant promises was promised to be a holy nation, a kingdom of kings and priests to rule over the Gentile nations with Christ (Revelation 1:6 Exodus 19:6 Revelation 5:10). Peter preached that the resurrection of Christ gave Israel assurance of that coming kingdom because Christ was raised to sit on the throne of David in that prophetic kingdom (1 Peter 1:3 Acts 3:25 Acts 2:30). Peter preached the receiving of the Holy Ghost to empower Israel to enter the kingdom (Luke 24:49 Acts 1:8 Acts 2:33 Acts 2:38).

Paul and the resurrection: Paul taught that Christ was risen for our justification (Romans 4:25).

Peter and works: Peter preached works as necessary for salvation in order to enter the kingdom (Acts 10:35 1 Peter 1:15 1 Peter 2:9 2 Peter 1:10-11). Peter preached to Israel repentance and baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Peter preached holiness, and to remain steadfast unto the coming of Jesus and his kingdom (2 Peter 3:17).

Paul and works: Paul taught salvation without works (Titus 3:5 Romans 4:6 Ephesians 2:8-9).

Peter and the church: Peter preached to Israel (Acts 3:12). Gentiles had to come through Israel and it's covenants to be added to the church (Exodus 12:48 Acts 11:1); Gentiles had to believe the preaching of the word delivered to Israel as preached by Peter (Acts 13:48).

Paul and the church: Paul taught the church as the body of Christ, a new creature where there was neither Jew or Gentile (Galatians 6:15 Galatians 3:28 Ephesians 2:14).

Peter and heaven: Peter taught that Israel would receive the kingdom on earth ( Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6 2 Peter 1:11 Acts 2:30). He taught their reward was stored in heaven but not in heaven (1 Peter 1:4).

Paul and heaven: Paul taught the church seated with Christ in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6).

Both Peter and Paul were ordained of God to preach the gospel. Those who believed their gospels are in Christ. Peter's gospel faded away as Israel was diminished, and is not the gospel that is preached today. Paul preaches the gospel by which we are saved today. Paul in his epistles reveal the mysteries and doctrine for the church today.

I am not sure what the purpose of your post is.

 

[reformed1689]

There are no verses in which Peter preaches Paul's gospel

Correction, there are no verses in which they preach a different Gospel.

 

[reformed1689]

Right...the whole book rightly divided

That's not what rightly divided means......