PETER AND PAUL PREACHED DIFFERENT GOSPELS

[reformed1689]

Since you just don't get it, we will leave it at that.

No I get it completely. You are simply wrong.

 

[reformed1689]

We see things very differently!

And you are still wrong.

 

[Doug]

Thank you, brother. Good to know w

It's crazy to think Peter set aside a Gospel he was ordained to immediately take first to his own countrymen, and then to all nations.

The gospel of the Kingdom is the very Gospel Jesus preached. It was the one he gave to his apostles. And Paul considered himself a 13th apostle, or at least another in the same mold.

Jesus did indeed preach the gospel of the kingdom and gave that gospel to the twelve.

Paul was given mystery (Ephesians 3:3), and his gospel was hid to the twelve (Luke 9:45)

 

[Doug]

I am not sure what the purpose of your post is.

To understand and rightly divide scripture. To know what gospel is delivered to us today.

 

[Doug]

Evidently you have failed to study the matter. So here is the Scripture separating the Church from redeemed and restored Israel.

ROMANS 11: REDEEMED AND RESTORED ISRAEL

ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH ARE SEPARATE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [Note: the Church has become primarily a Gentile Church during the Church Age, while unbelieving Israel is spiritually blind. Following the Rapture, God will resume His dealings with Israel]

ALL (BELIEVING) ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED
26 And so all Israel shall be saved... [Note: only those who repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ at His Second Coming are saved out of Israel. Apparently one-third of the Jews at that time]

CHRIST IS THE DELIVERER WHO WILL DELIVER ISRAEL FROM ITS ENEMIES AS WELL AS FROM SIN AND WICKEDNESS
...as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob... 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

ISRAEL IS BELOVED BECAUSE OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB ("THE FATHERS")
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [Note: "the election" means the redeemed elect (saved) of Israel after the Second Coming]

GOD HAS NOT CHANGED HIS MIND OR HIS COVENANT
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

THE UNBELIEF OF ISRAEL RESULTED IN THE SALVATION OF GENTILES
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

THEREFORE ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE WILL ALSO OBTAIN MERCY
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

GOD WILL HAVE MERCY ON ALL
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

NO ONE CAN FATHOM THE UNSEARCHABLE WAYS OF GOD
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

TO GOD BELONGS ALL THE GLORY
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Obviously this will all come as a shock to you. But now you have two clear choices: (1) believe God and abandon all your FALSE theology or (2) cling to your false theology and ignore what God says (to your own peril).

Romans 9 through 11 is about Israel, not the church, the body of Christ.

Romans 9:24 Not only the Jews believed the gospel of the kingdom, and the preaching of Jesus and the twelve, but also Gentiles (Acts 10:45). This was not our gospel of grace. They only believed on the name of Jesus (John 3:18 John 20:31).

Romans 9:27 This is identifying the remnant of Israel as what Paul is talking about. The remnant is the believing Jews and Gentiles who will enter the promised kingdom on earth (Isaiah 2:2-3 Exodus 19:5-6).

Romans 9:30 Those Gentiles had faith, which Israel rejected.

Romans 11:5 At the time Paul was writing, the remnant of Israel, Jew and Gentile, were participants in the church.

Romans 11:11 The believing Gentiles would provoke unbelieving Israel to jealousy.

Romans 11:13 Paul was speaking to the Gentiles, not in the body of Christ, but in the remnant of Israel.

Romans 11:17 The Gentiles were grafted into the remnant of Israel.

Romans 11:20 Unbelieving Israel was broken off the tree. The Gentiles were grafted in by faith

Romans 11:20 The Gentiles could also be broken off branches.

Romans 11:25-27 Israel will be saved.

 

[Doug]

That's not what rightly divided means......

What does it mean?

 

[reformed1689]

What does it mean?

It means to handle it correctly.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus did indeed preach the gospel of the kingdom and gave that gospel to the twelve.

Paul was given mystery (Ephesians 3:3), and his gospel was hid to the twelve (Luke 9:45)

The mystery was not that Paul had a different Gospel. It was that whereas Israel was the exclusive People of God in the OT era, God had planned all along to fashion a way to allow entry for the pagan nations.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

From the beginning, ie since the Fall, God has predetermined that He would send His Son to die on the cross. In other words, the Gospel has been anticipated since the Fall.

The Bible also says the Gospel, in a preliminary sense, was foreshadowed in the promise God made to Abraham, to become father of all nations. So even while the Law was in effect, effectively excluding the nations, the Gospel of Christ was anticipated. There is no room here for "Dispensationalist" separation between the Church and Israel.

Be careful here

Dispensationalism does not separate Israel and Gentile concerning the gospel. Only concerning specific promises (physical) given to the nation of Israel and not to the gentiles..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The church is a heavenly people (Ephesians 2); after the Rapture, the tribulation saints won't be in the church, even though all true justification is by faith.

this is wrong.. Tribulations saints will be as much of the body of Christ as all people will..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are no verses in which Peter preaches Paul's gospel

this too is wrong, on so many levels.
Peter-
Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’
Paul -
Romans 10:13
For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you, brother. Good to know w

It's crazy to think Peter set aside a Gospel he was ordained to immediately take first to his own countrymen, and then to all nations.

The gospel of the Kingdom is the very Gospel Jesus preached. It was the one he gave to his apostles. And Paul considered himself a 13th apostle, or at least another in the same mold.

Amen

Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But it is another thing to say that Dispensationalist Theology is true, that Israel has a separate time and standard for salvation than other nations. .

only a very small group of people who claim to be dispensational believe this. It is not mainstream dispensational theology. I have been a believer in dispensations my whole life, and have always believed the gospel is the same for all in all ages, By faith.

I have also met some people that think the jews were saved by the LAW, and when we are in the tribulation period. they will return to being saved by law.. This is not true..

 

[Randy Kluth]

only a very small group of people who claim to be dispensational believe this. It is not mainstream dispensational theology. I have been a believer in dispensations my whole life, and have always believed the gospel is the same for all in all ages, By faith.

I have also met some people that think the jews were saved by the LAW, and when we are in the tribulation period. they will return to being saved by law.. This is not true..

This much I can agree with. However, I'm quite familiar with Dispensational Teaching. If it just treated nations and ethnicities separately, recognizing that they each have their own timetables, I would agree with it. But it goes far beyond that.

I'm fullly in agreement with your denial that in order to maintain Jewish distinctiveness we have to incorporate a return to the Law of Moses. And I certainly don't believe that Israel returns to God in the period of Antichristian persecution!

On the contrary, the return of the Jews to God takes place, I believe, at Christ's Coming and afterwards. The idea that Dispensations have switched "after the Pretrib Rapture," and at the inception of "the Great Tribulation," is not something I agree with. There is no evidence, biblically, of a Pretrib Rapture at all, unless it is read into symbolic allusions to the same. There is no explicit biblical theology of a Pretrib Rapture, which is what we should, if we are responsible, rely on.

In my view, the Jewish People will remain, as a whole, adamant in Judaism and rebellious against Christianity to the end. Though God will protect the nation from complete destruction, there will still have to be a definitive and complete judgment against the Jewish People in order to turn them back to God and to Christ. And this judgment, along with Jewish rebellion, continues throughout the period of Antichristian rule. It will only end at Christ's Return.

It is imperative, therefore, that Israel maintain a Christian presence among their own, and that other nations have a Christian presence among their own, during the time of Antichrist's reign. To think otherwise goes against the stated purpose of the book of Revelation, which is to exhort Christians to testify, to endure, and to proclaim the Kingdom of Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This much I can agree with. However, I'm quite familiar with Dispensational Teaching. If it just treated nations and ethnicities separately, recognizing that they each have their own timetables, I would agree with it. But it goes far beyond that.

Do please explain how my belief goes much further?

I'm fullly in agreement with your denial that in order to maintain Jewish distinctiveness we have to incorporate a return to the Law of Moses. And I certainly don't believe that Israel returns to God in the period of Antichristian persecution!

On the contrary, the return of the Jews to God takes place, I believe, at Christ's Coming and afterwards.

I agree here it goes with what Romans 11 says, when the time of the gentile is fulfilled. then all Israel will be saved It is at that time they repent. And they call out to Jesus and are saved.

The idea that Dispensations have switched "after the Pretrib Rapture," and at the inception of "the Great Tribulation," is not something I agree with. There is no evidence, biblically, of a Pretrib Rapture at all, unless it is read into symbolic allusions to the same. There is no explicit biblical theology of a Pretrib Rapture, which is what we should, if we are responsible, rely on.

Well I am undecided on this, And remember, discpensationalism consists of all beliefs. Including pre-trib, mid trib and post trib. So again, We need to be careful to judge a whole system based on what some believe

In my view, the Jewish People will remain, as a whole, adamant in Judaism and rebellious against Christianity to the end. Though God will protect the nation from complete destruction, there will still have to be a definitive and complete judgment against the Jewish People in order to turn them back to God and to Christ. And this judgment, along with Jewish rebellion, continues throughout the period of Antichristian rule. It will only end at Christ's Return.

It is imperative, therefore, that Israel maintain a Christian presence among their own, and that other nations have a Christian presence among their own, during the time of Antichrist's reign. To think otherwise goes against the stated purpose of the book of Revelation, which is to exhort Christians to testify, to endure, and to proclaim the Kingdom of Christ.

I think we agree here

I believe that the missionaries in the tribulation period (144000 and the 2 witnesses) are jewish. as John specified. So we do see a start to a return of Israel to receive her messiah.. but agree. It is not going to be complete until the end As the ot prophecy concerning the time of Jacob's trouble shows.

 

[farouk]

this is wrong.. Tribulations saints will be as much of the body of Christ as all people will..

The tribulation principle as in John 16.33 is always with us, and with the church.

The great tribulation of Matthew 24 is, however, a unique, future event, the context of which clearly is not the church but a future remnant of Israel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The tribulation principle as in John 16.33 is always with us, and with the church.

The great tribulation of Matthew 24 is, however, a unique, future event, the context of which clearly is not the church but a future remnant of Israel.

The tribulation will be worldwide Jew and gentile alike will be saved in that time period.

They will be saved the same way we are. By Grace through faith in Christ.

 

[farouk]

The tribulation will be worldwide Jew and gentile alike will be saved in that time period.

They will be saved the same way we are. By Grace through faith in Christ.

So you do distinguish between the Jew and the Gentile?

Do you also distinguish between those groups and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32)? because the coming of the Lord Jesus for His church is what the Rapture is. Matthew 24, clearly in the context, is not about the church, but about a future Jewish remnant during a unique future event that goes far beyond the general tribulation principle.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you do distinguish between the Jew and the Gentile?

When it comes to eternal life and salvation no. there is no jew or greek, male or female slave or free

Do you also distinguish between those groups and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32)? because the coming of the Lord Jesus for His church is what the Rapture is. Matthew 24, clearly in the context, is not about the church, but about a future Jewish remnant during a unique future event that goes far beyond the general tribulation principle.

When jesus comes, he will resurrect his children, It does not matter what nationality they are. or if they are jew or gentile

I am unsure why you think I think otherwise?

 

[farouk]

When it comes to eternal life and salvation no. there is no jew or greek, male or female slave or free



When jesus comes, he will resurrect his children, It does not matter what nationality they are. or if they are jew or gentile

I am unsure why you think I think otherwise?

Some of what you say I do indeed agree with, but we probably don't agree about dispensational distinctions.