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Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by H. Richard, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    thRQKCVSAT.jpg

    They're already here!
     
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  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Of course I'll fail! How can I convince you of anything? But whether or not I can convince you has no bearing on whether or not the Bible means a certain thing.

    :)
     
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  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Does that matter?

    Many have talked themselves out of knowing anything given the time to do so.

    Is that what I said? No it is not.

    I realize that. I said, "I guess you're idea is that it's just sloppy", which was in response to . . .

    . . . i.e. they were not careful, that is, they were sloppy.

    Except I believe it was God Who wrote Scripture.

    Much love!
     
  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    so wadr i would...contemplate that the Naive dialectic demands that every truth contain its own counter-truth, so to speak, in order to reflect what is it? and to hide wisdom from the wise, who naturally expect to read the Bible from the Hegelian dialectic, like they have been raised, go team, literally, history, facts and proof, even though not a single absolute truth may be derived from Scripture at all, as we already maybe know right.

    but gee, GG, even over/above that i would say that John Doe was obscured for most of 2000 years, also that who knows what...manifestations of the Rev might be valid tomorrow? I mean still looking for two literal people to lay dead in some street for 3days or whatever?
     
  5. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ha i hate to see ol Joel caste like that, knowing what i know about his preferences for ever even assuming the ministry. He is Aaron, i tell ya what. Love the guy myself. Anyway i'd hafta read that in the lex at least to reoly to your q sorry
     
  6. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's my point that is being missed.

    If I look at the verse that says Jesus make clay with spit and dirt and put it in the man's eyes, and then he could see, I can read this as an account of a miracle, which contains some strange elements, but that was how Jesus did it, and I can read this as the same account, and give meanings to those strange elements, though I don't see those meanings listed specifically.

    The spit is the original water of creation, the dirt the earth, now reblended after being separated, reblended into the original primordial ooze from which the world was make, now beginning creation over in this man's eyesockets, giving him sight.

    Or . . . the eye is make of water and earthy elements, and Jesus mixed them in the man's eye sockets to make his missing eyes.

    I can stick with what is stated, or I can add flights of fancy to the story. How many "flights of fancy" do you suppose are enacted upon Scripture? Would you expect them all to agree? Oh, but those who have them love to hold to them.

    But if we can divorce ourselves from the desire to inject ourselves into what we read, and are willing to change ourselves instead of changing the meanings of the words we read, we'll be much more likely to agree.

    Much love!
     
  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Is it me that doesn't want to discuss this? Or is it you??

    Time will tell.

    Much love!
     
  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    well we do have plenty of warnings in there i guess, tares, seven worse spirits, twice the sons of hell you are so yeh, i guess ppl, believers, dont really read Paul to their destruction much after all maybe
    huh?
     
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    um, didnt we just cover how you could convince me of stuff? i am not hard to convince. But anyway, i undersatand your assumption there, sure, and to that i would say thats what juries are for, state your first absolute truth from Scripture and lesssee! What do you have to lossse?
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    and then whether the Bible actually means what you think It means there, a whole diff subject iow, we could cover later maybe. easier to demonstrate after you have realized the um nature of truth thing prolly
     
  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    You have evidence to think either that I exist, or that there is some sort of fraud being perpetrated. I have that evidence also that God exists, this Someone who both knows me and makes known that they know me. And if this is fraudulent, well, it would be comparable to the bank robber busting into the vault to donate money to the bank.

    I reply to you directly, in a relevant way (hopefully!). He does so with me. I don't even really think in terms of what it would take to convince me otherwise, as this evidence seems so compelling! What I read in the Bible and what I experience in my life has convinced me.

    But the visuals . . . well, we do not hope for what we already have . . . our walk is by faith not sight.

    Much love!
     
  12. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure if GodsGrace's kindness or patience can help you. If you are not careful religion can put you in bubble. Some people still think the world is flat. If you think that the scriptures only convey one doctrine....you need to count the number of denominations that are out there. Wiser to look to see how differing scriptures can be harmonized and sometimes you have to take that to the language level and the cultural level. Then there are some scriptures that are klondike. Like you must hate your father and mother to be a disciple of Christ and it is better not to touch a woman... if that caught on we would not be having this discussion. Believe it or not we all have mothers. No Mark....your way is not the only way described in the scriptures.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  13. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    the inference @ "whether or not I can convince you" being that you would be convincing me of the "truth," right?

    You would be convincing me of something that is "from" the Bible, iow
     
  14. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That's part of the fun with posting when you haven't read the latest responses because we're all writing at the same time!

    LOL!

    Just that I don't see that I convince anyone of anything, I only share what I have, and the Holy Spirit will do the convincing if there is convincing to be done.

    But let's play!

    True, or not true:

    Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

    And absolute truth from Scripture. If you do not believe that God exists, you cannot please Him.

    Do you believe?

    Much love!
     
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  15. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    :D
     
  16. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Since I too am included in my own post, as there are many areas that are still growing in my faith. But, I would never, ever say I know ALL truth...one day The Holy Spirit WILL bring me into all truth. So, you kind of made my point?
     
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  17. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    You cannot separate or rank faith and works because they are interdependent. Like Jesus, who was fully man and fully God, our sanctification is fully faith and fully works.
     
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  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The atheist once proudly said, "I found it! The Bible says, "there is no God."

    To which the believer replied, "you have taken that out of context. It says, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.""

    And if the person does not want to serve the Lord, he will take the wrong message from that scripture passage and run with it...

    Wealth is in italics. It could just as well be translated well-being. There is no word for it in the original Greek.

    Excuse me, every last one of us was conceived in sin (Psalms 51:5). All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:10); babies are not exempt from these scriptures. They declare the word "mine!" very early on.

    It does not confirm that at all. What it confirms is that Jacob and Esau didn't commit any sins while they were in their mother's womb.

    I would share what the heresy is with all of you...except for the fact that it stumbled me in my faith for a very long time, and I do not wish the same experience on any of you. Call it a cop-out if you wish...you can take my word for it or call me a liar until you stumble on the same heresy in your own reading of the NASB (it is also in the NIV and who knows what other version; but not in the kjv).

    Now where did I ever say that Elizabethan English is the only way to salvation? I am saying that other translations are watered-down and lack the potency of the fullness of the saving gospel of Jesus Christ. That it is written in Elizabethan English is a side-point that has no relevance to the issue. Truth is, the kjv is the only version that has the form of sound words that we are commanded to hold fast to in 2 Timothy 1:13. It is the only translation that preserves every jot and tittle that Jesus said will never pass away from the true word of God (Matthew 5:18)

    copied from my Facebook page: The fact that there is a controversy (concerning kjv-only) means we should examine the validity of the claims of both sides. On the kjv-only side, there is Matthew 7:13-14 and Matthew 5:18. Jot and tittle have been taken away in other versions; and they are also based on different manuscript sources. You have to really seek the Holy Spirit's answer on which ones are right (see Jeremiah 29:13). Personally, I feel that other versions are watered-down and that people go to them because they have itching ears (2 Timothy 4:1-5). Not everyone; some started with the NIV or NASB thinking they were valid translations. In my own life I began with the kjv and someone suggested that I "try another version". I did, and my walk with Christ then proceeded to go downhill until I returned to the kjv. Just a testimony (see Revelation 12:10-11).

    But suppose that I have the whole truth, even being right 100% of the time? How would you know that unless you were also right 100% of the time and also knew it? If you don't have the whole truth and are not right 100% of the time, then you would be in disagreement at least some of the time with anyone who has it 100% of the time.

    Now of course I am being somewhat facetious. I have posted elsewhere that I believe that I can be wrong at any time and that I need to keep a humble and flexible attitude so that if anyone can prove me wrong, I would be willing to change my pov. However, I also posted in the same breath that we ought to read the Bible in such a way as to find the truth; and that when we find it, we need to hold it as truth unless someone can show us biblically that we are wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  19. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    To start here, I do NOT believe that any one person has it right 100% of the time. We are still fallible and will remain so until He completes us. I do love the KJV but I will not say all other versions are as watered down as you say. I know there was something with the NIV not too far back that was def. error and since, it has been corrected. I don't know of the others and, I'm sure there could be errors and we just do not know it. Either way, as we submit to Him, His Spirit WILL lead us into truth no matter which bible we use. If we seek Him as He tells us to, He WILL reveal Himself. Cannot remember where I heard this, but it did impact me at the time 'if we tore out a page from each book of the bible, we would STILL end up with the same message.
    "What is impossible for man..."
    It is kind of hard to listen to another Christian tell another that they have all truth concerning the Word Of God. Not much humility there me tinx. :)
     
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  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Since sanctification is the work that God performs in us of making us like Christ, it is not accomplished in us through any works of righteousness that we can do. It is entirely a work of the Holy Spirit.

    Those who are made like Christ will operate in good works as the result. But this (operating in good works) is to be distinguished from the work that the Holy Spirit does in us of making us holy.

    I may give to the poor as the result of being sanctified; but I am not sanctified by the act of giving to the poor. I am sanctified by faith and by keeping my eyes on the Lord (2 Corinthians 3:18).
     
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