If this is correct, why would it be prophesied that they will keep the Law, completely, including temple observances?
Much love!
Postrib vs Dispy.
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If this is correct, why would it be prophesied that they will keep the Law, completely, including temple observances?
Much love!
I don't believe that is said. When Israel was restored after the Babylonian Captivity, they had been essentially "divorced" from God, but had been given, later, to return to the Law of Moses and its observation.
However, in the time of Christ, their divorce from the Law was final, because God had intended to show, through the Law, that righteousness by the Law could not, at any rate, bring eternal life. It could only prepare the way for Christ to atone for our sins, by which our observance of His laws of righteousness would be accepted.
It would no longer be the Law of Moses that brings righteousness accepted by God. But after Christ's atoning death, righteousness would only be accepted by embracing his law, or as we say, the command to love God and to love our neighbor, and to accept Christ as our exclusive means of righteousness for salvation.
So any time you read that there would be a renewal of observance of the Law, the implication is only one of two things. One, it it after the Babylonian Captivity, and before Christ's atonement for our sins, when the Law was restored.
Or two, it is an expression of NT observance through the language of the Law of Moses, at a time when the Law was still in effect and had to be expressed in that form to avoid any sense that the Law could be abrogated before Christ's atonement. In other words, NT righteousness was expressed in the OT era, while the Law was still in effect, through the use of OT symbolism.
I would have to treat each passage separately. But Hebrews is pretty plain that the old covenant not only had passed away at the death of Christ, but that the continuing observance of the Law by the Jews at the temple was close to be completely removed, as well. This happened in 70 AD, when the Romans annihilated the temple. I don't believe Bible Prophecy says anywhere that the Law of Moses will ever again be restored. This legal division between Jew and Gentile has been brought down forever. This "wall" has been completely "torn down."
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So you wish to dismiss one set of Scriptures by establishing a different set of Scriptures? It would be better to reconcile them rather than to ignore either of them!
What do you do with these?
Psa 78.69 He built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth that he established forever.
Eccl 1.4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.
Ezekiel 11:17-20 KJV
17) Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
18) And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.
19) And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
20) That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Ezekiel 36:24-28 KJV
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 37:21-27 KJV
21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23) Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24) And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25) And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26) Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27) My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Here are three places.
Much love!
In saying forever, is that translated from 'olam'? I haven't looked at the passages, but I know that olam is a commonly used word for "eternal" or "forever", although the word itself isn't that specific. I understand it to mean the hidden, as in, past what you can see. I think some define it as "over the horizon", something like that.
Much love!
Ronald Nolette
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So MOses trusted in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus? NOT! He did not know the name of Messiah. Nor did He know the term christian. He was a believer, but an OT believer who was not aware of who Jesus was, what He would do, and that only one day Messiah would come. Everything else is speculation and adding to Scripture based on assumptions.
Truth7t7
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"Earth" is established "Forever"
It's called the "New Earth" it's not Venus, Mars, Jupiter, or the Moon, but "Earth"
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
Isaiah 65:17-18KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
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Yes, some scholars interpret them to refer to the Persian restoration, in which Israel was indeed returned to the Law of Moses. I don't hold to that view in regard to Eze 37, in particular. That does seem to refer to a NT fulfillment. However, "my statutes," though referring in the time of the prophecy they had to refer to the Law of Moses, they would not, I think, refer to the Law of Moses in the NT era.
For example, when God told Israel to obey His laws, He referred to whatever laws were in force at the time. Even though the Law of Moses is passé now, the ethical demands of God, that we "live in His image," remain in effect in perpetuity, because we were created for such.
Words like "statutes" and "laws" are therefore generic commands to obey God, regardless of the form of those laws and statutes. God could've been much clearer if He had wanted to command Israel to return to the 613 requirements of the Law of Moses.
In reality, He couched His prophecies in the language of the time, so that a return to God's statutes under the Law would be equally applicable as under the time of NT fulfillment. Anyway, that's how I see it.
What God is very clear about is that the NT era does not anticipate a return to the Law. We are told, without ambiguity, that the Law could not save, that Christ has come to nail the statutes of the Law to the cross.
We are now saved by Christ's resurrection. We could never, at any rate, have been saved by statutes of the Law that exposed sin, causing us to fall short of eternal life.
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If we go a little further back in the chapter,
Ezekiel 36:8-15 KJV
8) But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.
9) For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
10) And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:
11) And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
12) Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.
13) Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations;
14) Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.
15) Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.
God tells the mountains, this will be the last. After this, no more bereavement, no more reproach.
Much like what He foretold through Ezekiel,
Ezekiel 39:25-29 KJV
25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Much love!
Keraz
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But the Jewish State of Israel does not fulfil those prophesies.
He would say His people are those who believe in Him and keep His Commandments. Since Jesus came, ethnicity is of no consequence or value. Ephesians 2:11-18
Those who claim to descend from Judah, etc, and who call their nation; Israel, but do not believe in God, [about 52% of Israelis] or bother much with His Commandments, are prophesied to be removed. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Isaiah 22:14, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Romans 9:27
Keraz
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Ezekiel 36:8 and many other prophesies, is about what will happen soon after the forthcoming Lord's Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
The people who re-inhabit all of the holy Land, will be all the righteous believers in God, those who have accepted the Salvation of Jesus. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26
I agree. The heart of God's promise to Israel is not just that they come into existence, but that they ultimately triumph over their enemies, "never more" to be tormented by them. The inference here is that Israel will never again become guilty of gross sins, deserving of exile.
In context "forever" means forever, as in continuous for all time--continuous existence. CLICK--see 2.b.
Eccl 1.4; Psalm 78.69
Timtofly
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Moses knew about the Atonement:
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
How many different books did God have with names in them? How did Moses understand there was even such a book? Moses had been with God on the mount. God explained many things to Moses, that Moses did not write down.
Not sure you can declare what Moses knew or did not know. We do not know all Moses knew, because Moses did not record all that Moses knew.
Ronald Nolette
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Of course He knew of atonement. but He did not know Jesus was going to be crucified and risew from the dead on the third day.
Timtofly
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Kind of hard to explain the Atonement without explaining God would come in the flesh, die on the Cross, and rise from the dead.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well then show me from the old testament where Abraham and Moses knew the name Jesus, knew He was to die on the cross, shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins and physically rise form teh dead for their justification and I will believe it.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
How did Abraham know of Atonement? What verse shows that? Jesus appeared to Abraham, as that is the only physical body, God has. Jesus was physically born one time, but that does not mean Jesus is bound by physical time. Some claim God used a physical form to appear to Abraham. Why not the actual physical body of the Resurrection?
Abraham told Isaac that God would provide Himself a lamb. Did Abraham lie to Isaac? It was a ram, an adult sheep. Why is Jesus called the Lamb of God, when He was crucified as a mature adult?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Jesus is called the Lamb of God. Abraham told Isaac God would provide Himself a Lamb. This was after Abraham met the physical form of Jesus Christ.
Do you think Moses asked God to explain this verse after he wrote it down?
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Not to mention, Moses wrote down the account of Abraham and Isaac as well. To say Moses only wrote down what was discussed, and never asked for any details, is not even human nature. Should God have spelled it out, so you could believe it on demand?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
The verses you quote are true, but your hypothesis that Abraham knew the name of Jesus and that Jesus would die and rise form teh dead based on that and the appearance on the plains of Mamre is all speculation without evidence.
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