Postrib vs Dispy.

[Timtofly]

The verses you quote are true, but your hypothesis that Abraham knew the name of Jesus and that Jesus would die and rise form teh dead based on that and the appearance on the plains of Mamre is all speculation without evidence.

The evidence is that Abraham still exercised faith in obeying God. Your claim is that it was Abraham's opinion made up without fact, when Abraham answered Isaac's question about the Sacrifice. Abraham should have just said, "I don't know" to Isaac?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The evidence is that Abraham still exercised faith in obeying God. Your claim is that it was Abraham's opinion made up without fact, when Abraham answered Isaac's question about the Sacrifice. Abraham should have just said, "I don't know" to Isaac?

No my opinion was that you made up Abrahams knowledge about Jesus without fact. I know that Abraham exercised faith towards god. He just did not know the details of Jesus life, death , and resurrection.

 

[Timtofly]

No my opinion was that you made up Abrahams knowledge about Jesus without fact. I know that Abraham exercised faith towards god. He just did not know the details of Jesus life, death , and resurrection.

You deny that Abraham did meet the crucified Jesus Christ. I accept the fact that before Abraham was, the risen Christ was also. The Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You deny that Abraham did meet the crucified Jesus Christ. I accept the fact that before Abraham was, the risen Christ was also. The Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world.

So you are saying Jesus was crucified before He was actually crucified? WOW! Now it was determined that before Creation Jesus would be crucified, but He actually wasn't crucified and risen until He was born and grew to be a man in AD. 30c.

To say Jesus spoke with Abraham about His crucifixion and resurrection with there being no evidence to say so, is dangerous.

 

[Naomi25]

As to the Rapture, there is no question that it will be before the Tribulation (which coincides with the reign of the Antichrist). The Bible makes it clear that the Man of Sin cannot take control until the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way". And since the Church is indwelt by the Spirit, the Church is also taken out of the way. That is the only way that Satan and the Antichrist can have total control of the inhabitants of the world for 3 1/2 years.

If I may comment on this thought?

I believe there is a very valid question as to the timing.
You base your argument on 2 Thess 2 and the Man of Sin. Let’s look at the passage.


2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, [2] not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [3] Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [4] who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. [5] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? [6] And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. [8] And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

I’d like to address the ‘Restrainer’. You claim that this Man of Sin cannot appear until the Church is gone because the Restrainer who ‘restrains’ him is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is within the Church.
I object to this notion on many fronts. Chiefly, my objection is that none of that is in the text, it is purely supposed. Could the Restrainer be the Holy Spirit? Yes. But it could be a number of other things too…the text simply doesn’t tell us, and making a conclusion that then leads to more conclusions? Error compounding error.
Even IF the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit, why must we assume that the Church must leave for him to withdraw his restraint upon this Man of Sin? Cannot the Spirit do whatever he needs to? He is God, no? The assumption that the Church must be Raptured before any of this can happen is based solely upon that being the desired outcome, nothing more. The text doesn’t give you leave to presume it.


I have several more objections based on this passage alone, but for sake of brevity, I’ll leave it there for the moment.

 

[Naomi25]

Yes God is omnipresent. But you seem to have forgotten that until the day of Pentecost in 30 AD, the Holy Spirit had not been given as a gift to those who believe. He had not be sent down to earth by the Father. And just as He came down to earth for the Church Age He will return to Heaven when the Church is raptured and to allow Satan full control. As to an angel being the Restrainer mentioned in 2 Thessalonians, that is just laughable. Even Michael the archangel said to Satan "the Lord rebuke thee".

You say it’s “laughable” that an angel would be able to restrain the Man of Sin. Why? He is just a man. Even one who, at some point, may have certain powers given to him by Satan.
In scripture we have plenty of ideas of conflict between spiritual beings. The primary one would be in Daniel, where the angel who is sent to give Daniel a message is held up by a “Prince”…and needs Michael to come to his assistance.
This tells us that an ‘angelic’ battle rages behind the scenes, so to speak. And while, yes, we know Michael would not use his own authority to rebuke Satan, that does not give us a full picture of what this other place, or its structures look like.
One ought to keep in mind that God’s purposes will be done, and if he gives authority to someone like Michael to do it, no one, not even Satan would stand in his way. All power, Michaels…even Satan’s, ultimately, comes from God.

If you’re interested in digging into that topic a little more, do a search on “divine council”. Or read Enoch.

 

[Enoch111]

Chiefly, my objection is that none of that is in the text, it is purely supposed.

You see this is the problem today. People want EXPLICIT statements because they cannot (or will not) connect the dots. But God expects us to connect the dots. And I have done so using what is already revealed about Satan and how he is restrained by GOD -- not by angels. God the Holy Spirit is the Divine Restrainer.

 

[Naomi25]

You see this is the problem today. People want EXPLICIT statements because they cannot (or will not) connect the dots. But God expects us to connect the dots. And I have done so using what is already revealed about Satan and how he is restrained by GOD -- not by angels. God the Holy Spirit is the Divine Restrainer.

Okay. Show me. What are “the dots”? What bible passages have you linked together to prove solidly that the Restrainer IS, without a doubt, the Holy Spirit?