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Featured Pre-Trib Rapture is Dead!!!

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Rollo Tamasi, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Rollo Tamasi

    Rollo Tamasi Well-Known Member

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    I should listen
     
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  2. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Your point on πτώμα is good. I hadn't noticed it. I was assuming the same word was used in both texts, so Bravo! :)

    Now, the above was always my original interpretation. But one problem is that in the parallel text of Luke 17:24-37, false Christs and false prophets are never mentioned, which would mean the text of Luke would not be able to stand on its own independently if that were the consistent meaning of the expression.

    ... but the presence of πτώμα in Matthew's account does make me take inventory...

    It's as if He is using two very similar expressions to teach two different things... teaching on the "corpse" (i.e. the spiritually dead "body") of false christs in one text, and on the living "body" of Christ in the other...

    Now isn't that something...

    Thanks for the post, sister. That's interesting.
     
  3. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that. :) I think the body of Christ grows when everyone is willing to listen. The problem comes when everyone's talking yet no one's willing to listen.
     
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  4. Rollo Tamasi

    Rollo Tamasi Well-Known Member

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    I will listen
     
  5. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    satan is alive now? hmm
     
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  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering more about how he would die. That's a new one on me. :confused:
     
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  7. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    @Naomi25

    OH!! I was just reading through both passages again, and I think I have the entire package now. It's not two different meanings but one: The expression is indeed "where the [dead] body is, there will the vultures be gathered" in both instances, and a derogatory expression about those who will be left on earth (i.e. the carnal, who are destined for destruction) verses the spiritual who will be caught up with Christ in the air (Matthew 24:30-31). In Luke, when the disciples ask "Where Lord?", they are actually asking where the left behind ones will be located, and His answer is the same, "They will be left on earth, and die as a result."

    That would mean I was mistaken in claiming "the body" in Luke is the body of Christ. The above interpretation would retain, however, that those who are "taken" in both texts are those caught up in the rapture before the destruction comes (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, 1 Thessalonians 5:9).
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    But the OT does not say how he will take them.

    REV 13 AND 14 are about Israel, not church.

    And the three in the furnace are not during the hour of testing, the trib.

    In your approach you do not address all the martyrs who have not been, are not and will not be protect via thinking.

    You are shopping carting the bible.

    Are you into kingdom theology?

     
  9. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Satan never ceases to exist.

    At the second coming his cast into hell. Than later judge and cast into lake of fire and brimstone for eternity.

    Annihilation is a false teaching. The fallen angels, demons and damned never cease to exist.
     
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  10. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
    .. concerning them which are asleep,
    .... that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
    .. even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
    .... For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
    ...... that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
    ........ shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
    .. with the voice of the archangel,
    .... and with the trump of God:
    ...... and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    ........ Then we which are alive and remain
    .......... shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
    ............ to meet the Lord in the air:
    and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    Wherefore comfort one another with these words.'

    (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)

    'For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
    .. but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
    .... Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep,
    ...... we should live together with Him.'

    (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

    'Now we beseech you, brethren,
    .. by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    .... and by our gathering together unto Him,
    ......That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,
    ........ neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
    .......... as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    Let no man deceive you by any means:
    .. for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
    .... and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    ...... Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
    ........ so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    .. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    .... For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
    ...... only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    ........ And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
    .......... whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth,
    ........... and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
    ............ Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    .............. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
    ................ because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    .................. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    .................... That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord,
    .. because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    .... Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    ...... Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
    ........ Now our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God, even our Father,
    .......... which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
    ............ Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.'

    (2 Thessalonians 2)

    'Behold, I shew you a mystery;
    .. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    .... In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
    ...... for the trumpet shall sound,
    ........ and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
    .......... and we shall be changed.
    ............ For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
    .............. and this mortal must put on immortality.
    '
    (1 Cor. 25:51-53)

    * I don't apologize for quoting such lengths of Scripture, for it is important that we actually read what is written. There are several clues given within these Scriptures as to when this event will take place. This is the event which is called 'The Rapture', though it is not called that in Scripture itself.

    * This event is not the hope of the church which is the Body of Christ, but it was the hope held by believers during the Acts period, including Paul, before the revelation of the Mystery concerning the church of the one Body was given to him. The hope associated with the church which is the body of Christ, is to be found within the pages of the epistles written following that revelation, (Eph. Phil. Col. 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus).

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  11. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    OP ----->pretrib rapture is dead

    No.
    The Crucified with Christ who are the forgiven, saved, sanctified ARE the dead, have prepared for them, the Rising up TO their Lord, in the Air, Observing The Beginning of Tribulation.

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
  12. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Amen!

    Spirits NEVER Die.
    Good thing too.....or a mans Spirit being Quickened would also be subject to Die...
    And it isn't.

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
  13. Vexatious

    Vexatious Active Member

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    I'm wondering, are you in the fertilizer business, given all that dung you're shoveling, Pretribber? You say the corpses are those left behind, even though Jesus was answering the question of where people are taken. Only in the corrupt mind of a pretribber could "[To] Where?" mean those who haven't moved. Jesus equates those taken to those destroyed in Noah's flood and those destroyed in Sodom. Only in the corrupt mind of a pretribber could Jesus be referring to those left behind, because the subject is those taken (those left behind means not everyone is taken).

    To where, Pretribber are people taken, according to the taken passages, if not to destruction? Not taken to Jesus. Not taken to the sky. No other destination but destruction is given because this passage has nothing to do with the rapture. You shamelessly insert the Devil's pretrib lie and insist that the word "taken" is a reference to the rapture, without one shred of contextual support. Additionally, there's not the slightest hint that those taken are taken before the tribulation (they are taken in the tribulation, by the tribulation).

    Then, you reference the verse of angels collecting the elect, even though you know the text is explicit that this is "after the tribulation", not before, because pretribber shameless lies never end. This verse about angels gathering the elect is not part of the "taken" verses, and has nothing to do how or where people are "taken". Additionally, you are wrong thinking "gathering the elect" means the rapture.

    You say "in both texts are those caught up in the rapture before the destruction comes." Liar. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 makes no reference to destruction (has nothing to do with the tribulation) and 1 Thessalonians 5:9 makes no reference to being caught up (and, isn't about Christians avoiding tribulation). The first reference is about the resurrection, after (not before) all death and destruction. The second reference about Christians not going to Hell, in spite of suffering in this world, not about Christians avoiding tribulation and suffering.
     
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  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Good morning, Vexatious. You do know I'm not Pre-Trib, right? (see Post #7).

    I'll get to the rest of your post in a while. I don't have time to read it atm, but I'll check in later on in the afternoon probably.

    Blessings in Christ,
    Hidden in Him
     
  15. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Misunderstanding.

    Jesus returns ONCE....NOT TWICE.

    No one is claiming "THEMSELVES" that Jesus returns "TWICE".

    The supposed "TWICE" returning is ONE claiming those are the RESULTS of an others belief. Thus the misunderstanding and debate.

    Jesus IS IN Heaven.
    Jesus Descends TO THE CLOUDS. (Not earth).
    While Jesus IS IN THE CLOUDS...
    He calls UP TO HIM, HIS Church.
    His CHURCH is ON EARTH.
    His CHURCH rises UP.
    RESULT...
    Jesus and His Church are IN THE CLOUDS,
    Neither in the Heaven or on, or in the Earth.

    DURING the Tribulation...(7 years)

    Jesus is in the Clouds/Air ABOVE the EARTH.
    Jesus' Church is in the Clouds/Air ABOVE the EARTH.

    There will be things happening in conjunction, ON the earth, affecting, the earth, the people thereof.
    People taking the Mark of satan, people choosing to believe and be Sealed in Christ, people hiding.


    AND at the same time, IN the air, things will be happening IN the air....Jesus, His Church, His saints, His angels, satan's angels, souls being risen up who came into believe during the first half of the Tribulation.

    And the last half of the Tribulation, when NONE SEALED in God/Christ will remain ON the Earth.

    The end of the Seven Years, IS WHEN Jesus descends from the CLOUDS TO THE EARTH.

    No, not TWO returns to Earth....but ONE.
    Rev 1:7

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
  16. Rollo Tamasi

    Rollo Tamasi Well-Known Member

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    Fantasy at it's best.
    May Jesus bless you richly,
    Rollo
     
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  17. Rollo Tamasi

    Rollo Tamasi Well-Known Member

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    satan and his demons are hugely crowded at your front door.
    Beware the ides of November!
     
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  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Pax!

    :)
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    nice catch
    amen! well, each in his own turn, but ya! And not with two eyes, but sure! :D
    as long as your present beliefs do not contradict any other truths in the Bible i see no probs tbh
    you will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up
    there is only one immortal
    no one has ever gone up to heaven
    no one knows where they go when they die
    the kingdom does not come by observation
    today is the day
    give no thought for the morrow

    etcetc, etc
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  20. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    We all have our destiny. Mine is with the Lord forever In peace and joy....and that is not the picture of the Tribulation.

    On the flip side, I have no objection if experiencing the Tribulation ON Earth is something you look forward to and expect to experience.

    Simply, we hope for and expect a different destiny.


    Thank you, and You as well Rollo...
    God Bless,

    Taken
     
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