PREPARING FOR THE COMING TRIBULATION

[Brothertom]

PREPARATION FOR THE COMING TRIBULATION.
In the end, natural preparation for the tribulation will have little or no effectiveness, unless inspired by the Lord. The greatest thing we can do is to resolve ourselves to be possessed by the Lord Jesus, while resolved to obey Him & Trust in Him....even unto the worst of natural possibilities;
Starvation, Thirsting, or even seeing our family members suffer; death, & abuse. This cannot be projected as to how we might react, nor can we plan ahead; because it will never happen the way we may think.

"God has never forsaken ANY who put their trust in Him!" I see Hebrews 11, the hall of fame of faith chapter, as more than a historical event. I see it as a roadmap for us; a prophecy to expect, to resolve ourselves as righteous Job; "EVEN THOUGH HE SLAY ME, YET WILL I WORSHIP HIM!"
I want us to consider this, too. There will be a remnant of Jesus's here in America that will endure to His appearing, & Parusia...gathering together. God will stop time, & all on the Earth will be able to peer into eternity, where He sits & rules, while they watch Him gird His Sword as the Avenging Son, & powerful Father.......& slay the wicked while sweeping the faithful alive to Heaven..[ in the twinkling of an eye..].

This is the time Jesus warned of us...when I believe Islam will be in control of America totally. This is when MANY will betray one another...in order to survive...& deny Christ....& even their family members. They will proclaim Christ as Allah, as Mohammed.

"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

I think that many so-called Christians will justify capitulating to Islam under the premise that Allah is Jehovah, & has revealed himself through the power of Islam's savior, the anti-Christ & his prophet...who calls down pillars of fire on the Earth...[ I met them, & witnessed this in Eritrea...]
Remember..the way that so many will bow to Allah, is that you cannot buy food, water, heating or rent a home without the MARK, & without the mark, you must be beheaded! When this becomes a reality, most everyone will capitulate....to survive. Those who do....will ensure their place in Eternal Fire...without mercy from God. This is the test that comes upon the entire Earth.

There were ten Virgins, but only five were wise. The foolish virgins oil of anointing; the resolve to cling to Jesus more than the Love of their own lives, had dried up. The World, their Satanic Natures, themselves, & temptations from Satan in the World, had quenched Him out & they were empty & cold. These, could not, & will not endure the Tribulation Period...which will be rather long; 42 months.

" But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
During this time, the Church will be hunted, & overcome.

"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

This is the Islamic Anti-Christ, who is alive today, & I believe resurrected from the deadly wound to the head; Osama Bin Laden. I believe I met him, & his false prophet in N. Africa.

"Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. "

This must be our victory & our true preparation.

http://brideinthewilderness.blogspot.com/?view=classic

 

[tgwprophet]

Brothertom worte: " PREPARATION FOR THE COMING TRIBULATION.
In the end, natural preparation for the tribulation will have little or no effectiveness, unless inspired by the Lord. The greatest thing we can do is to resolve ourselves to be possessed by the Lord Jesus, while resolved to obey Him & Trust in Him....even unto the worst of natural possibilities;
Starvation, Thirsting, or even seeing our family members suffer; death, & abuse. This cannot be projected as to how we might react, nor can we plan ahead; because it will never happen the way we may think. "

Hi brother, Sorry, but I cannot agree with that any less. Persecutiuon even unto being be-headed is what those who will not accept the Beast's Mark can look forward to... but the AMOUNT of persecution is certainly considered effected by the amount of preparation as well as God's intervention.

A well prepared person or group would be an asset to our Lord when trying to shield others from danger. Your idea that preparation is useless is to say; we as people have absolutely no effective consideration concerning the events surrounding them. Your idea is all actions and reactions to circumstances are futile other than prayer. Your idea tells us then.. that we cannot even help ourselves or one another. Your idea cannot be right. Be a watchman, viligant in his duty to see peril on the horizon that one can have sufficient oil for their lamps. My personal words for all would be for them to be ready at a moments notice to survive where there is remote land, areas that mobility is difficult but not becasue of population, but rather becasue it is very difficult to inhabit. Learn ways to survive in plain sight. Prepare yourself with camping equipment that needs no refilling. A good knife for everyone and extras for those who join you is a very good idea (take extreme caution when allowing someone to join). Fishing equipment is as important as any hunting firearm. a book on wild foods is a must if you do not know them already, and there is more. There are "prepers" that have or are building safe havens for themsleves.. these are useless, for no one without the Beast's Mark can own land. I spent years on understanding this aspect of weathering Tribulations and learning what to take, where to go and how to survive.

 

[Alanforchrist]

PREPARATION FOR THE COMING TRIBULATION.
In the end, natural preparation for the tribulation will have little or no effectiveness, unless inspired by the Lord. The greatest thing we can do is to resolve ourselves to be possessed by the Lord Jesus, while resolved to obey Him & Trust in Him....even unto the worst of natural possibilities;
Starvation, Thirsting, or even seeing our family members suffer; death, & abuse. This cannot be projected as to how we might react, nor can we plan ahead; because it will never happen the way we may think.

"God has never forsaken ANY who put their trust in Him!" I see Hebrews 11, the hall of fame of faith chapter, as more than a historical event. I see it as a roadmap for us; a prophecy to expect, to resolve ourselves as righteous Job; "EVEN THOUGH HE SLAY ME, YET WILL I WORSHIP HIM!"
I want us to consider this, too. There will be a remnant of Jesus's here in America that will endure to His appearing, & Parusia...gathering together. God will stop time, & all on the Earth will be able to peer into eternity, where He sits & rules, while they watch Him gird His Sword as the Avenging Son, & powerful Father.......& slay the wicked while sweeping the faithful alive to Heaven..[ in the twinkling of an eye..].

This is the time Jesus warned of us...when I believe Islam will be in control of America totally. This is when MANY will betray one another...in order to survive...& deny Christ....& even their family members. They will proclaim Christ as Allah, as Mohammed.

"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

I think that many so-called Christians will justify capitulating to Islam under the premise that Allah is Jehovah, & has revealed himself through the power of Islam's savior, the anti-Christ & his prophet...who calls down pillars of fire on the Earth...[ I met them, & witnessed this in Eritrea...]
Remember..the way that so many will bow to Allah, is that you cannot buy food, water, heating or rent a home without the MARK, & without the mark, you must be beheaded! When this becomes a reality, most everyone will capitulate....to survive. Those who do....will ensure their place in Eternal Fire...without mercy from God. This is the test that comes upon the entire Earth.

There were ten Virgins, but only five were wise. The foolish virgins oil of anointing; the resolve to cling to Jesus more than the Love of their own lives, had dried up. The World, their Satanic Natures, themselves, & temptations from Satan in the World, had quenched Him out & they were empty & cold. These, could not, & will not endure the Tribulation Period...which will be rather long; 42 months.

" But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
During this time, the Church will be hunted, & overcome.

"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

This is the Islamic Anti-Christ, who is alive today, & I believe resurrected from the deadly wound to the head; Osama Bin Laden. I believe I met him, & his false prophet in N. Africa.

"Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. "

This must be our victory & our true preparation.

http://brideinthewilderness.blogspot.com/?view=classic

You can prepare for the coming tribulation, But the TRUE Church will be raptured before the tribulation starts.
Both Jesus and Paul who was inspired by God, Say we wil NOT be here for the tribulation period.

 

[tgwprophet]

Actually, there are Christians that are not taken and suffer not only persecution but also be-heading - ( Rev 20:4 ). This AlanforChrist is in contrast to your contention. Notice those that are be-headed for Christ, reign with Chrst for the 1,000 years. Why do I claim there will be those that are persecuted but not be-headed? This is becasue; though all the World could come against Israel - it should mean all the armies of the World, not all the people of the world - think of any children or women if they can't go to do battle why think ALL the men of the world will?

Brothertom wrote: " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. "

That is Scriptural - so how is it this reflects those that endured til the end - unless enduring til the end is available?

So, instead of thinking the rapture is for the Church(es), consider the rapture may instead be for those Chrstians that could not possibly deny the Mark of the Beast... ie; those who are too old, those that are too young, those who are incrsorated, Those afflicted by a varety of illnesses of which they could not leave the hospital, the nursing home or the hospice care would require a safety net such as the rapture. But the strong, those needing more testing, those being tested that they may receive higher or more rewards... thy could all be left to assist others for example.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Actually, there are Christians that are not taken and suffer not only persecution but also be-heading - ( Rev 20:4 ). This AlanforChrist is in contrast to your contention. Notice those that are be-headed for Christ, reign with Chrst for the 1,000 years. Why do I claim there will be those that are persecuted but not be-headed? This is becasue; though all the World could come against Israel - it should mean all the armies of the World, not all the people of the world - think of any children or women if they can't go to do battle why think ALL the men of the world will?

Brothertom wrote: " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. "

That is Scriptural - so how is it this reflects those that endured til the end - unless enduring til the end is available?

So, instead of thinking the rapture is for the Church(es), consider the rapture may instead be for those Chrstians that could not possibly deny the Mark of the Beast... ie; those who are too old, those that are too young, those who are incrsorated, Those afflicted by a varety of illnesses of which they could not leave the hospital, the nursing home or the hospice care would require a safety net such as the rapture. But the strong, those needing more testing, those being tested that they may receive higher or more rewards... thy could all be left to assist others for example.

Those who are beheaded in the book of Revelation, ARE NOT in the Church age, The Church is in heaven at that time.
Those who go through the tribulation are the Jews and the backsliders.
The tribulation is the wrath of the devil, Then the wrath of God,
And the Bible says [In relationship to the tribulation period] we Christians AREN'T appointed to wrath.

Those who believe the Church has to go through the tribulation period, Are calling God a liar.

 

[tgwprophet]

Revelation 20:4 notes those that among other things, would not takes the Beast's Mark nor worship the Beast nor the Image of the Beast. This means Christians who will not follow the Beast will suffer even unto be-heading. These people surely do not resemble back-sliders. Also, at the moment the Jews accept Christ, expect Chirst to come to do battle.

If your allegation is true... all Jews are killed before Armageddon and backsliders are rewarded to reign with Christ 1000 years.

And the Bible says [In relationship to the tribulation period] we Christians AREN'T appointed to wrath. According to this statement you wrote... The Two Witnesses must also be raptured, not killed - for they are certainly Christians. OK, so they are not appointed to wrath.. but that does not mean they are protected from wrath, but merely points out that any wrath they suffer is not the will of God.

Brothertom wrote: " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. "
So... how is it this reflects those that endured til the end - unless enduring til the end is available?
Meaning these people are Christians and survive be-heading - then " enduring " reflects some persecution.


In your final words you claim... " Those who believe the Church has to go through the tribulation period, Are calling God a liar. "
Here you have decided that anyone not agreeing with your understanding must go to Hell, not a very good thing to claim, you may wish to re-vise that statement. However, there is one safety rope available. and that is the description of the Church. If by Church you mean all Christians - then you should be in error. Compounding this, you claim anyone not in agreement with you - goes to Hell, for they are calling God a liar. If you really mean that, then what should your end be if you are wrong? - That is reason enough to re-think your stance. I think your understanding is a trifle skewed, but not enough that it can not be altered a bit and aligned with the Word of God. Best Wishes.

 

[Brothertom]

"Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

THEN.... the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will MOURN, and they WILL SEE the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24

The rapture [ parousia; gathering together, ] and the ourpouring of Wrath from the sword of His mouth, occur at the same time, after THE TRIBULATION of those days. Christians, or as He states, "His Elect", that endure to His coming will be translated into a New Body & be with God forever. However, it is also clear that many will be killed by the Anti-Christ for their faith before then, as it is that many will fall away.

To me, the danger of believing that one will fly away , in an unbiblical "secret" rapture, is living for your own life, & the enjoyment of it; very similar to many adhering to the heretical ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED lie. Without realizing that we must deny ourselves, & pick up our own Cross daily [ die to our wicked selfishness ], & follow Jesus to become like Him, we empty ourselves of anointing oil. This is maturing, becoming sons of God. This is enduring to the end, learning how to love no matter the cost. Consider Stephan, the first martyr.

The five foolish virgins refused to bare their Cross, & rather than be filled with the Holy Spirit anointing a Crucified life, chose to walk their own way, though it well may have been religious. In this life, they lost the faith that only grows by abiding in Him; that anointing oil of Presence, & when the dark night came....& it will, they could not endure, or see, or believe, & they could not endure until the end. This is why we musy prepare now, to know Him & to obey Him to learn How to love Him & men. Just knowing the dogma or doctrine will prove to be useless, without knowing Him & loving Him. This is true worship in His eyes.

"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me, And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. "

This IS the great Trial that will encompass the entire Earth, & the Lord Jesus designed it & allowewd it to prove in every man this one truth; "Who do you Love?"

 

[Alanforchrist]

Revelation 20:4 notes those that among other things, would not takes the Beast's Mark nor worship the Beast nor the Image of the Beast. This means Christians who will not follow the Beast will suffer even unto be-heading. These people surely do not resemble back-sliders. Also, at the moment the Jews accept Christ, expect Chirst to come to do battle.

If your allegation is true... all Jews are killed before Armageddon and backsliders are rewarded to reign with Christ 1000 years.

And the Bible says [In relationship to the tribulation period] we Christians AREN'T appointed to wrath. According to this statement you wrote... The Two Witnesses must also be raptured, not killed - for they are certainly Christians. OK, so they are not appointed to wrath.. but that does not mean they are protected from wrath, but merely points out that any wrath they suffer is not the will of God.

Brothertom wrote: " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. "
So... how is it this reflects those that endured til the end - unless enduring til the end is available?
Meaning these people are Christians and survive be-heading - then " enduring " reflects some persecution.


In your final words you claim... " Those who believe the Church has to go through the tribulation period, Are calling God a liar. "
Here you have decided that anyone not agreeing with your understanding must go to Hell, not a very good thing to claim, you may wish to re-vise that statement. However, there is one safety rope available. and that is the description of the Church. If by Church you mean all Christians - then you should be in error. Compounding this, you claim anyone not in agreement with you - goes to Hell, for they are calling God a liar. If you really mean that, then what should your end be if you are wrong? - That is reason enough to re-think your stance. I think your understanding is a trifle skewed, but not enough that it can not be altered a bit and aligned with the Word of God. Best Wishes.

Whatever hapends in the tribulation period has nothing to do with the Church age, The Church has been raptured to heaven before the tribulation starts.
As I have said, Those in the tribulation period are the Jews, The backsliden Christians who get left behind, And those who get saved during the tribulation.

Those that endure to the end, Are the"ELECT JEWS".. Not the Elect Church.

I quote AGAIN,
Anyone who believes we go through the tribulation period, Is calling God a liar., Either that or they don't know the Bible.

PS. It's not my understanding, It's what the Bible says.
I never give my interpretation, I let the Bible interpret itself, I just tell you what it says.

"Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

THEN.... the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will MOURN, and they WILL SEE the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24

The rapture [ parousia; gathering together, ] and the ourpouring of Wrath from the sword of His mouth, occur at the same time, after THE TRIBULATION of those days. Christians, or as He states, "His Elect", that endure to His coming will be translated into a New Body & be with God forever. However, it is also clear that many will be killed by the Anti-Christ for their faith before then, as it is that many will fall away.

To me, the danger of believing that one will fly away , in an unbiblical "secret" rapture, is living for your own life, & the enjoyment of it; very similar to many adhering to the heretical ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED lie. Without realizing that we must deny ourselves, & pick up our own Cross daily [ die to our wicked selfishness ], & follow Jesus to become like Him, we empty ourselves of anointing oil. This is maturing, becoming sons of God. This is enduring to the end, learning how to love no matter the cost. Consider Stephan, the first martyr.

The five foolish virgins refused to bare their Cross, & rather than be filled with the Holy Spirit anointing a Crucified life, chose to walk their own way, though it well may have been religious. In this life, they lost the faith that only grows by abiding in Him; that anointing oil of Presence, & when the dark night came....& it will, they could not endure, or see, or believe, & they could not endure until the end. This is why we musy prepare now, to know Him & to obey Him to learn How to love Him & men. Just knowing the dogma or doctrine will prove to be useless, without knowing Him & loving Him. This is true worship in His eyes.

"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me, And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. "

This IS the great Trial that will encompass the entire Earth, & the Lord Jesus designed it & allowewd it to prove in every man this one truth; "Who do you Love?"

Please note, All the tribes of the earth shall mourn.....NOT THE CHURCH..As we won't be here, We are the clouds coming back with Jesus.

 

[tgwprophet]

What I posted remains.

And what you posted is your opinion of what happens... you simply claim it is correct with the Word of God.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Alan, Your words: "Anyone who believes we go through the tribulation period, Is calling God a liar., Either that or they don't know the Bible."

Actually, I believe it is you that is misunderstanding scripture. Do a word search on trials and tribulations in the NT. The amounts they are used in scripture may surprise you. Then realize that when these words are mentioned they are NOT speaking of unexpected medical bills or car repairs or unemployment or illness. The first century church underwent their own "tribulation" period and the latter day will as well, only ours will be global in nature.

The second thing you need to know is that tribulation and wrath are miles apart. As your word search will show you, christians grow spiritually when enduring tribulation by exercising our faith in Christ. Wrath is simply judgment and punishment and I agree that the church won't be here for that.

 

[tgwprophet]

Do you have a qualifier that those who endure to the end are only Jews? Also, the Two Witnesses ARE Christians and they do not go in the rapture. More-over exactly how can you dis-qualify not only the Two Witnesses - who are prophets but also the 144,000 as not being part of the Chruch? Your claim requires that ALL those who are be-headed are also... only Jews. I have never seen a scripture making these claims... so please give me direct reference.

 

[Rex]

PREPARATION FOR THE COMING TRIBULATION.
In the end, natural preparation for the tribulation will have little or no effectiveness, unless inspired by the Lord. The greatest thing we can do is to resolve ourselves to be possessed by the Lord Jesus, while resolved to obey Him & Trust in Him....even unto the worst of natural possibilities;
Starvation, Thirsting, or even seeing our family members suffer; death, & abuse. This cannot be projected as to how we might react, nor can we plan ahead; because it will never happen the way we may think.

To bad a simple message to stand firm has to take second place to prophesy interpreters, like they don't have enough threads to disagree in already.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Hi Alan, Your words: "Anyone who believes we go through the tribulation period, Is calling God a liar., Either that or they don't know the Bible."

Actually, I believe it is you that is misunderstanding scripture. Do a word search on trials and tribulations in the NT. The amounts they are used in scripture may surprise you. Then realize that when these words are mentioned they are NOT speaking of unexpected medical bills or car repairs or unemployment or illness. The first century church underwent their own "tribulation" period and the latter day will as well, only ours will be global in nature.

The second thing you need to know is that tribulation and wrath are miles apart. As your word search will show you, christians grow spiritually when enduring tribulation by exercising our faith in Christ. Wrath is simply judgment and punishment and I agree that the church won't be here for that.

If you knew the Bible, You would know there is a difference between trials and tribulations that Christians face in this age,
And they are far different to the comimg great tribulation period.

There is also a differenve between tribulations and wrath, The comming great tribulation period, Is the dispensation of wrath, And Christians AREN'T appointed to wrath.

As I said, Those who believe the Church is going through the great tribulation period, Is callin God a liar..FACT.
Either that, Or they don't know the Bible, Either way, shame on them.

Do you have a qualifier that those who endure to the end are only Jews? Also, the Two Witnesses ARE Christians and they do not go in the rapture. More-over exactly how can you dis-qualify not only the Two Witnesses - who are prophets but also the 144,000 as not being part of the Chruch? Your claim requires that ALL those who are be-headed are also... only Jews. I have never seen a scripture making these claims... so please give me direct reference.

Those who endire to the end, Are the Jews who get saved in the tribulation period, Problebly along with the backsliden Christians and those who get saved during the tribulation.
The two witnesses are some of those who get saved during the tribulation period.


The Old Testament was under law, The dispensation of law.
The New Testament and The New Testament Church is under grace. The dispensation of grace.
The tribulation period is the dispensation of wrath,
And God says Christians in the Church age, [the dispensation of grace], ARE NOT appointed to wrth.
That means the Church doesn't go through the tribulation period.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Alan, Your words: "That means the Church doesn't go through the tribulation period."

If you are still considering the whole of Daniel's week as the "tribulation period", than you are in error. There is no verse in scripture that even hints at a "tribulation" lasting seven years. The 70th week is divided into four categories. Seals, (which scriptures verify within the context of Rev. 6 are NOT part of anyone's wrath) the great trib (church)/time of Jacob's trouble (Jews) ( GT begins with the 5th seal and concludes with the 7th seal rapture), trumpet judgments (wrath of the Lamb), and vial judgments (wrath of God).

The difference between the great trib and Jacob's trouble is duration. The great trib will probably be a couple of years at most while Jacob's trouble will extend all the way through the 70th week.

Your words: If you knew the Bible, You would know there is a difference between trials and tribulations that Christians face in this age."

Let's see, the first century christians (aka, this church age and still going on in many places) were beaten, starved, lost their homes and possessions, imprisoned, tortured, crucified, hung, fed to the lions, baked, broiled, fried, boiled (sometimes in oil), stretched on a rack, torn in two and beheaded just for starters. Now exactly what will be different in the "great trib", besides the global scale???

 

[Alanforchrist]

Revelation 20:4 notes those that among other things, would not takes the Beast's Mark nor worship the Beast nor the Image of the Beast. This means Christians who will not follow the Beast will suffer even unto be-heading. These people surely do not resemble back-sliders. Also, at the moment the Jews accept Christ, expect Chirst to come to do battle.

If your allegation is true... all Jews are killed before Armageddon and backsliders are rewarded to reign with Christ 1000 years.

And the Bible says [In relationship to the tribulation period] we Christians AREN'T appointed to wrath. According to this statement you wrote... The Two Witnesses must also be raptured, not killed - for they are certainly Christians. OK, so they are not appointed to wrath.. but that does not mean they are protected from wrath, but merely points out that any wrath they suffer is not the will of God.

Brothertom wrote: " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. "
So... how is it this reflects those that endured til the end - unless enduring til the end is available?
Meaning these people are Christians and survive be-heading - then " enduring " reflects some persecution.


In your final words you claim... " Those who believe the Church has to go through the tribulation period, Are calling God a liar. "
Here you have decided that anyone not agreeing with your understanding must go to Hell, not a very good thing to claim, you may wish to re-vise that statement. However, there is one safety rope available. and that is the description of the Church. If by Church you mean all Christians - then you should be in error. Compounding this, you claim anyone not in agreement with you - goes to Hell, for they are calling God a liar. If you really mean that, then what should your end be if you are wrong? - That is reason enough to re-think your stance. I think your understanding is a trifle skewed, but not enough that it can not be altered a bit and aligned with the Word of God. Best Wishes.

The Church isn't here for the tribulation period, It is raptured to heaven before the trib starts,
Why do people want to tribulate when God says we will escape it??.
Those who believe we go through the tribulation, Either don't know the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar,..Either way, Shame on them.

Hi Alan, Your words: "That means the Church doesn't go through the tribulation period."

If you are still considering the whole of Daniel's week as the "tribulation period", than you are in error. There is no verse in scripture that even hints at a "tribulation" lasting seven years. The 70th week is divided into four categories. Seals, (which scriptures verify within the context of Rev. 6 are NOT part of anyone's wrath) the great trib (church)/time of Jacob's trouble (Jews) ( GT begins with the 5th seal and concludes with the 7th seal rapture), trumpet judgments (wrath of the Lamb), and vial judgments (wrath of God).

The difference between the great trib and Jacob's trouble is duration. The great trib will probably be a couple of years at most while Jacob's trouble will extend all the way through the 70th week.

Your words: If you knew the Bible, You would know there is a difference between trials and tribulations that Christians face in this age."

Let's see, the first century christians (aka, this church age and still going on in many places) were beaten, starved, lost their homes and possessions, imprisoned, tortured, crucified, hung, fed to the lions, baked, broiled, fried, boiled (sometimes in oil), stretched on a rack, torn in two and beheaded just for starters. Now exactly what will be different in the "great trib", besides the global scale???

I never said the tribulation lasts seven years, But the anti-christ is hear for the seven years, The first three & a half years he brings peace and unity, Then the wrath.
The Bible makes it clear enough [for those who know it], That the Church has to go before the anti-christ can come,
That means the Church is raptured to heaven for the whole of the seven years.
Jesus is coming back for a people just like Him, A Church doing outstanding miracles and great works of power.
Do you see that kind of Church in the book of revelation, Apart from the two Prophets???.
If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How do you think he is going to deal with millions just like Jesus??..He can't, Thats why we have to be raptured first.
If the Church was here for the first three & a half years, That means we would have to compromise our faith, and compromise the word of God.

The people that say we are going through the great tribulation, Either don't know the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar.
Either way, Shame on them.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Alan, Your words: "That the Church has to go before the anti-christ can come, That means the Church is raptured to heaven for the whole of the seven years."

That's subjective thinking because that sentiment isn't in the bible.

Your words: "Jesus is coming back for a people just like Him, A Church doing outstanding miracles and great works of power.
Do you see that kind of Church in the book of revelation, Apart from the two Prophets???."

I don't see that kind of church now, do you? I think as a whole, at this moment, the church is kind of pathetic and needs something to give it a boost.

Your words: "If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How do you think he is going to deal with millions just like Jesus??..He can't, Thats why we have to be raptured first."

I'm not trying to be facetious but the devil DID deal with Jesus by torture, crucifixion and death. Praise God, it was part of His plan and thru His sacrifice we get victory over death, but the devil will deal with us the same way in a period of time called the great trib. What did Jesus say? "Take up your cross and follow me", that involves way more, than giving up our habits and encouragement to stop sinning. What did Jesus ask of the Father? John 17:15 - "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." Now read Eph 6:10-17, the evil day spoken of in vs. 13 is the great trib.

Your words: "If the Church was here for the first three & a half years, That means we would have to compromise our faith, and compromise the word of God."

Now you're coming closer to understanding. The great trib is a judgment upon the church because the majority of today's church does just that! 1 Peter 4:17-18 - "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

If there were a pre-trib rapture why would Peter say that the righteous (the church) will have it so bad, they'll "scarcely be saved"?
No one here is looking forward to the great trib, but, the fact is, we will undergo it and if we fail to prepare our hearts and minds now and determine within ourselves with the hope of the HS that we wil "stand" firmly in our faith, then those that don't prepare, will surely fall.

 

[Questor]

There are ways to prepare for what is coming, in prayer, in meditation on the Word, or simply picturing what it is going to be like midway through the Tribulation when the AntiChrist declares from Temple Mount that he is god, and all who do not worship him will die.

There is no way to escape being killed if the Devil is trying to kill you, and YHVH allows it to happen.

And it is written that it will happen, to some, and to many, and I do not think myself exempt.

So I simply take heart from the fact that YHVH, even though He allows me to be killed, will not fail to be with me at the end.

He needs us to be a living, breathing, yet willing to die witness for Yah'shua.

And yet I have friends who would also rather put their trust in a fairy tale of escapism, in the nonsense of a pre-trib rapture than trust their God to preserve them unto to life or death. They actually think I am choosing not to be raptured...as if I do not want to be protected from tribulation.

I am choosing to face reality, nothing more. The Scriptures say that many will 'wash their robes' in the tribulation of those days.

[SIZE=x-small]9[/SIZE] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[SIZE=x-small]10[/SIZE] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
[SIZE=x-small]11[/SIZE] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[SIZE=x-small]12[/SIZE] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[SIZE=x-small]13[/SIZE] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[SIZE=x-small]14[/SIZE] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[SIZE=x-small]15[/SIZE] Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
[SIZE=x-small]16[/SIZE] They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
[SIZE=x-small]17[/SIZE] For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Rev 7:9-17 (KJV)



If YHVH needs me as a perfect witness, He will also make me able, even now, to view it ahead of time as a necessary thing. He has, in the past, made me able to get through a minor operation without feeling any pain, as I sang in worship under my breath. He has shown me that prayer and praise takes away fear as well.

And yes, I know my death could be ugly, and brutal, and terrifying. I have already died in my dreams vividly, and in slow motion, experiencing every twitch of my reaction. It was weird, because I was not frightened by it. Startled, stunned even, but not frightened.

I recall recent video's of children in Syria being taught to use a sword on the streets...and recall that Sharia law uses a blade for executions, and wince away from the reality of what is coming...and still I know that YHVH will be with me...if He chooses that I shall be one who will die, if He chooses not to protect me.

I do not choose this. There are none who would want to, unless it means denying Yah'shua, denying my Saviour.

I do believe that the question may be asked of me...of all of us. And we must be prepared, to be willing, to answer the question, regardless of the consequences, by facing the possibility, and being grimly determined to stand.


Q

 

[Alanforchrist]

Hi Alan, Your words: "That the Church has to go before the anti-christ can come, That means the Church is raptured to heaven for the whole of the seven years."

That's subjective thinking because that sentiment isn't in the bible.

Your words: "Jesus is coming back for a people just like Him, A Church doing outstanding miracles and great works of power.
Do you see that kind of Church in the book of revelation, Apart from the two Prophets???."

I don't see that kind of church now, do you? I think as a whole, at this moment, the church is kind of pathetic and needs something to give it a boost.

Your words: "If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How do you think he is going to deal with millions just like Jesus??..He can't, Thats why we have to be raptured first."

I'm not trying to be facetious but the devil DID deal with Jesus by torture, crucifixion and death. Praise God, it was part of His plan and thru His sacrifice we get victory over death, but the devil will deal with us the same way in a period of time called the great trib. What did Jesus say? "Take up your cross and follow me", that involves way more, than giving up our habits and encouragement to stop sinning. What did Jesus ask of the Father? John 17:15 - "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." Now read Eph 6:10-17, the evil day spoken of in vs. 13 is the great trib.

Your words: "If the Church was here for the first three & a half years, That means we would have to compromise our faith, and compromise the word of God."

Now you're coming closer to understanding. The great trib is a judgment upon the church because the majority of today's church does just that! 1 Peter 4:17-18 - "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

If there were a pre-trib rapture why would Peter say that the righteous (the church) will have it so bad, they'll "scarcely be saved"?
No one here is looking forward to the great trib, but, the fact is, we will undergo it and if we fail to prepare our hearts and minds now and determine within ourselves with the hope of the HS that we wil "stand" firmly in our faith, then those that don't prepare, will surely fall.

If you knew the Bible [Which you obviousley don't],
[1]You would know the Church is raptured before the anti-christ can come.
[2]You would know we are in the days of the later rain, But the former and later rain is coming, And that is when the Church will be just like Jesus, In holiness and Doing outstanding miracles.
Some of us, Like me, Are doing the works that Jesus said we would do, Right now,.
The Bible says Jesus is coming for a glorious Church, One doing outstanding miracles, John said the Church will be just like Jesus when He comes... So the anti-christ CANNOT work while we are still here.FACT.

It was God's plan and purpose for Jesus do die, If God didn't want Jesus to die for us, Not the devil's idear.
You really really don'tknow the Bible..DO YOU.
You said,

"but the devil will deal with us the same way in a period of time called the great trib".
[End quote].

Anyone who believes that lie, Is either very ignorant of the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar...Either way, Shame on you.


If you was to read, and UNDERSTAND, Jn 17: 15 & Eph 6: 10--
17, You would know as we stand, WE WIN. Not suffer at the great tribulation. Plus,
God is talking about this age, Not the coming trib.

How can the tribulation be God's judgment on the Church when it isn't on the earth at that time??
Plaus, God said we ARE NOT appointed to wrath.
Plus, Jesus has alreadt taken our sin judgement whe He died for us.


I think it's back to the Bible for you, This time read and understant it.

 

[TWC]

If you knew the Bible [Which you obviousley don't],
[1]You would know the Church is raptured before the anti-christ can come.
[2]You would know we are in the days of the later rain, But the former and later rain is coming, And that is when the Church will be just like Jesus, In holiness and Doing outstanding miracles.
Some of us, Like me, Are doing the works that Jesus said we would do, Right now,.
The Bible says Jesus is coming for a glorious Church, One doing outstanding miracles, John said the Church will be just like Jesus when He comes... So the anti-christ CANNOT work while we are still here.FACT.

So, do you actually have scripture to back up what you're saying or are you just parroting what you heard from behind a pulpit?

 

[tgwprophet]

In another post it was stated the back-sliders and the Jews are the only ones to suffer Tribulation. However God's Word stated those who weather Tribulations will reign with Jesus 1000 years. so it is the back-sliders that rrigh over the Church? lol