PREPARING FOR THE COMING TRIBULATION

[Questor]

Alan,

You seem not to understand that YHVH has a reason for people to be willing to stand, and die for Yah'shua.

Yah'shua still needs believers to stand as witnesses, even under the most extreme circumstances, and perhaps, just perhaps, He even wants to find out who is willing to stand for Him.


Q

 

[John_8:32]

You can prepare for the coming tribulation, But the TRUE Church will be raptured before the tribulation starts.
Both Jesus and Paul who was inspired by God, Say we wil NOT be here for the tribulation period.

Scriptures please.

 

[Alanforchrist]

So, do you actually have scripture to back up what you're saying or are you just parroting what you heard from behind a pulpit?

Of cause I have scriptures to back up what I say, Do you think I would say it if I didn't??.

In another post it was stated the back-sliders and the Jews are the only ones to suffer Tribulation. However God's Word stated those who weather Tribulations will reign with Jesus 1000 years. so it is the back-sliders that rrigh over the Church? lol

The tribulation Jews and the Church that comes back with Jesus will reign with Jesus for 1000 years.

Alan,

You seem not to understand that YHVH has a reason for people to be willing to stand, and die for Yah'shua.

Yah'shua still needs believers to stand as witnesses, even under the most extreme circumstances, and perhaps, just perhaps, He even wants to find out who is willing to stand for Him.


Q

Of cause God wants us to make a stand for Him, But we do it from the standpoint of victory.
Rom 8: 37. 1 Cor 15: 57. 2 Cor 2: 14. 1Jn 5: 4--5.

Scriptures please.

2 Thess 2: 1---8. And in realtion to the coming tribulation, V13 and 1 Thess 5: 9. says we won't be here for the coming tribulation. V14 says we will have the charater and power of Jesus, If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How is he going to handle millions just like Jesus.


Jesus in relation to the coming trib, says in Lk 21: 36, Watch and pray that we wil esape the coming trib.
Both Jesus and Paul, Inspired by God, Said we won't be here for the trib.

Plus If the rapture was after thetribulation, Will will meet Jesus in the air and make an emediate u-turn and come straight back to earth, And if that was the case, Why would Jesus says He is going to heaven to prepare a place for us, If we aren't going there??.

There are to many scriptures that prove the pre-trib rapture for it not to be true.
Anyone who thinks we are going through the great tribulatiom Eithe rdoesn't know the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar...FACT.

 

[John_8:32]

Of cause I have scriptures to back up what I say, Do you think I would say it if I didn't??.


The tribulation Jews and the Church that comes back with Jesus will reign with Jesus for 1000 years.


Of cause God wants us to make a stand for Him, But we do it from the standpoint of victory.
Rom 8: 37. 1 Cor 15: 57. 2 Cor 2: 14. 1Jn 5: 4--5.


2 Thess 2: 1---8. And in realtion to the coming tribulation, V13 and 1 Thess 5: 9. says we won't be here for the coming tribulation. V14 says we will have the charater and power of Jesus, If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How is he going to handle millions just like Jesus.


Jesus in relation to the coming trib, says in Lk 21: 36, Watch and pray that we wil esape the coming trib.
Both Jesus and Paul, Inspired by God, Said we won't be here for the trib.

Plus If the rapture was after thetribulation, Will will meet Jesus in the air and make an emediate u-turn and come straight back to earth, And if that was the case, Why would Jesus says He is going to heaven to prepare a place for us, If we aren't going there??.

There are to many scriptures that prove the pre-trib rapture for it not to be true.
Anyone who thinks we are going through the great tribulatiom Eithe rdoesn't know the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar...FACT.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

One who is raptured off should not be in danger of being deceived. If there were a rapture, there would be no need for this warning. Let's look at the timing of what should be called the resurrection...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

OK, when is that?

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

When? The last trump!

There are seven trumpets...

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This is the triumphant return of Christ at the seventh and last trump.

 

[TWC]

Of cause I have scriptures to back up what I say, Do you think I would say it if I didn't??.


The tribulation Jews and the Church that comes back with Jesus will reign with Jesus for 1000 years.


Of cause God wants us to make a stand for Him, But we do it from the standpoint of victory.
Rom 8: 37. 1 Cor 15: 57. 2 Cor 2: 14. 1Jn 5: 4--5.


2 Thess 2: 1---8. And in realtion to the coming tribulation, V13 and 1 Thess 5: 9. says we won't be here for the coming tribulation. V14 says we will have the charater and power of Jesus, If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How is he going to handle millions just like Jesus.


Jesus in relation to the coming trib, says in Lk 21: 36, Watch and pray that we wil esape the coming trib.
Both Jesus and Paul, Inspired by God, Said we won't be here for the trib.

Plus If the rapture was after thetribulation, Will will meet Jesus in the air and make an emediate u-turn and come straight back to earth, And if that was the case, Why would Jesus says He is going to heaven to prepare a place for us, If we aren't going there??.

There are to many scriptures that prove the pre-trib rapture for it not to be true.
Anyone who thinks we are going through the great tribulatiom Eithe rdoesn't know the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar...FACT.

Speaking of facts...
Paul taught that the dead would rise first before anyone remaining would be caught up. He reiterated this by saying that those who are alive and remain shall by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

In John's gospel, it was well understood that Lazarus would be part of the resurrection on the last day.
The first resurrection in Revelation is clearly and undeniably a post-tribulation event.
If there must be a resurrection prior to there being a rapture, and the first resurrection is after the tribulation, then the rapture must also be after the tribulation.

God's elect are referred to in Psalms as the being the seed of Abraham.
Jesus said that the days of the tribulation would be shortened for the sake of the elect.
Paul wrote that all who have faith are the seed of Abraham, and even called them God's elect.
God's elect = Seed of Abraham = Church.

Also, before you bring up the wedding supper argument...
In Revelation, at the opening of the fifth seal (the last seal opened during the tribulation - see Matt. 24) the martyrs are still waiting for God's vengeance on the earth's inhabitants. At the wedding supper (see Rev. 19) the martyrs have been avenged. Therefore, the wedding supper can't happen before the fifth seal.

 

[ENOCH2010]

Amen TWC so simple a 5 year old could understand

 

[Alanforchrist]

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

One who is raptured off should not be in danger of being deceived. If there were a rapture, there would be no need for this warning. Let's look at the timing of what should be called the resurrection...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

OK, when is that?

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

When? The last trump!

There are seven trumpets...

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This is the triumphant return of Christ at the seventh and last trump.

If you knew the Bible, You would know the Church is already in heaven in the book of Revelation before the first trumpet.
The last trumpet in 1 Cor 15: 52, Is the last trumpet the Church will hear, As it is raptured to heaven, It has nothing to do with the seven trumpets in Revelation.
Anyone who believes the Church goes through the great trubiulation period, Either doesn't know the Bible, or calling God a liar.

Speaking of facts...
Paul taught that the dead would rise first before anyone remaining would be caught up. He reiterated this by saying that those who are alive and remain shall by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

In John's gospel, it was well understood that Lazarus would be part of the resurrection on the last day.
The first resurrection in Revelation is clearly and undeniably a post-tribulation event.
If there must be a resurrection prior to there being a rapture, and the first resurrection is after the tribulation, then the rapture must also be after the tribulation.

God's elect are referred to in Psalms as the being the seed of Abraham.
Jesus said that the days of the tribulation would be shortened for the sake of the elect.
Paul wrote that all who have faith are the seed of Abraham, and even called them God's elect.
God's elect = Seed of Abraham = Church.

Also, before you bring up the wedding supper argument...
In Revelation, at the opening of the fifth seal (the last seal opened during the tribulation - see Matt. 24) the martyrs are still waiting for God's vengeance on the earth's inhabitants. At the wedding supper (see Rev. 19) the martyrs have been avenged. Therefore, the wedding supper can't happen before the fifth seal.

If you knew the Bible [Which you don;t], You would know that there are three main resurrections.
[1]The resurrection at the pre-trib rapture.
[2]The first resurrection after Jesus come back with His raptured people.
[3]The resurection of the damned at the day of judgment.

There are the Elect Jews, And the Elect Church, You are getting the Church mixed up with the elect Jews,
That's what happends when you don't know the Bible.

As for the wedding supper, It takes place in heaven during the tribulation period, And the Church is in heaven having the supper, So how can the Church be in heaven having the wedding supper and on the earth going through the trib at the same time??.

Amen TWC so simple a 5 year old could understand

How can you agree with TWC when he is is great error??.
You must be as ignorant as he is.

 

[John_8:32]

If you knew the Bible, You would know the Church is already in heaven in the book of Revelation before the first trumpet.
The last trumpet in 1 Cor 15: 52, Is the last trumpet the Church will hear, As it is raptured to heaven, It has nothing to do with the seven trumpets in Revelation.
Anyone who believes the Church goes through the great trubiulation period, Either doesn't know the Bible, or calling God a liar.

If you knew the Bible [Which you don;t], You would know that there are three main resurrections.

I am just a pretty simple farm boy and as such believe what Christ says...

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

And this He said to His faithful disciples the night before He was crucified. We don't go there, He comes here.

[1]The resurrection at the pre-trib rapture.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

>
[2]T
he first resurrection after Jesus come back with His raptured people.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Occurs at the triumphant return of Christ.

[3]The resurection of the damned at the day of judgment.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

At the end of the Millenium.

There are the Elect Jews, And the Elect Church, You are getting the Church mixed up with the elect Jews,
That's what happends when you don't know the Bible.


As for the wedding supper, It takes place in heaven during the tribulation period, And the Church is in heaven having the supper, So how can the Church be in heaven having the wedding supper and on the earth going through the trib at the same time??.

How can you agree with TWC when he is is great error??.
You must be as ignorant as he is.

Frankly, I think you are parroting what someone has told you. The scripture does not support John Nelson Darby's deception.

 

[Brothertom]

Questor wrote:
"There is no way to escape being killed if the Devil is trying to kill you, and YHVH allows it to happen.
And it is written that it will happen, to some, and to many, and I do not think myself exempt.
So I simply take heart from the fact that YHVH, even though He allows me to be killed, will not fail to be with me at the end.
He needs us to be a living, breathing, yet willing to die witness for Yah'shua."

And....."
"If YHVH needs me as a perfect witness, He will also make me able, even now, to view it ahead of time as a necessary thing. He has, in the past, made me able to get through a minor operation without feeling any pain, as I sang in worship under my breath. He has shown me that prayer and praise takes away fear as well.
And yes, I know my death could be ugly, and brutal, and terrifying. I have already died in my dreams vividly, and in slow motion, experiencing every twitch of my reaction. It was weird, because I was not frightened by it. Startled, stunned even, but not frightened."....

And..."
"I do not choose this. There are none who would want to, unless it means denying Yah'shua, denying my Saviour.I do believe that the question may be asked of me...of all of us. And we must be prepared, to be willing, to answer the question, regardless of the consequences, by facing the possibility, and being grimly determined to stand."......................Questor

This post moved me & bore witness as a true "Word of Testimony.", Questor. Thank you. I too have been taken to the day of my death; a beheading. I was taken out into a stadium type venue; I was very thin & had a full beard. I saw the executioner waiting for me, & I ran towards him, from a prison cell & placed my neck on a block. There was a basket underneath my head, & I felt the blade slice through. Several things happened in a milli-second. My jugular vein wildly spewed warm blood everywhere, while I simultaneously heard a large crowd roar with approval, like they would rooting for a soccer goal. I watched my head fall into the basket, while I felt my body separated in shock, at the same time.

I will give my testimony. The vision was not yet over. I was taken into a room in Heaven, & there, holy angels dressed me, preparing me for an event. This experience was real, but not as vivid. There was another man with me that had been with me, also being dressed. After a while, I was led out to stand before the Lord. This experience was beyond vivid; I was there.

I did not see the Lord directly, as some have, but His Spirit overwhelmed me. I was looking up, & yelling Praises to Him, over & over & over..."Thank you Jesus! I love you Jesus! Thank you! over & over & over. I can only describe His Love in terms of Waves; Billows of rolling Love....He was possibly hundreds of feet high...& covered with Shekinah Glory. These waves also seemed to be hundreds of feet high, & I knew they splashed over all of Heaven. I stood before him alone.

When the scripture speaks of Joy indescribable, & Full of Glory...one cannot add more. Exhilaration; filled with such an energy that I could not contain it. My shouts of praise, though just flowing from me were but a response to being loved so deeply in His Glory, & were almost melodious, as though singing. I had another body, with a head & a voice! & I praised Him on & on with all of my being; I could do nothing less.I was standing looking up while I praised Him, with my fists closed, almost screaming holy praise; the energy was so intense.

This went on for a while, & the Lord gave me a gift; an authority gift I believe. I was shown a Golden Belt Buckle; Huge maybe six or seven feet square. The gold was very pure, & written in amber above it & below it;
THE BELTBUCKLE OF THE LORD.

I then came out of the vision. I believe that the Lord wanted to assure me that I would indeed endure & overcome. It has been very encouraging in some of my battles.

In March 2012, the Lord began to speak to me about going to North Africa. I received a detailed dream about going to Eritrea, as His ambassador. In the dream, he gave me the name of the country..[ which I had not heard of consciously ], & the date I was to go..[ September ], and the calling of Ambassador. I also had a dream about being confronted by the Taliban. These were vicious men who vowed to kill me. I also had a dream about the "Sign of the prophet Jonah is soon to appear!"

The Word was so clear that I would deny Christ if I did not obey. I spent weeks in mourning, & in deep sobriety. It was as though that I was walking down the "Green Mile"...to the path of the executioner. I have never been so brutally sober, & clear minded that I might die, but I went. I made out my will on the way to the airport. I landed in Asmara, Eritrea on 26 September.

What happened then is the oddist & most stressful thing ever, for me. I became aware of an evil beyond evil, at the hotel I was staying at. I was interrogated by two officials, 12 hours after I arrived. I heard terrible sounds of murder at night...& also aware of the Taliban...who told me that I had a $70,000 price on my head. I saw a supernatural pillar of fire twice, [ I believe that this is the fire that the false prophet calls down; I believe I met him..] perhaps 30 feet tall & 12 feet in diameter, burning in the night, perhaps 300 yards away from my hotel, & witchcraft deeper than I had ever seen; & intermingled with cries of torture at night.

I felt like the Taliban there, maybe 50 or 60 people, were going to abduct me, so I fled to an unknown hotel in the city. Within two hours I saw the same SUV's roll up that the Taliban drove, with the same wicked men. They knew where I was, & were waiting to kidnap me. I fled to the America Embassy, & was escorted out of the country. I landed in Cairo Egypt.

It is here that the deliverance miracles were evident. The entire Egyptian Air airline were waiting for me. They tried to drive me out of the building, where a large crowd of Islamists were waiting for me. They refused my ticket to S. Africa, & refused to issue me a ticket to ANYWHERE. They stole my passport, all while the PA system was roaring out my name, with curses to me; the Taliban & Egypt Air were one..perhaps 30-40 people....& I was alone....in essence helpless...& captured.....to become a Daniel Pearl video for Al Qaeda.

Somehow I didn't crack up, & I was not afraid; I think I was beyond fear. I did not feel the Presence of the Lord, nor consciously react in Faith. I just stood, & faced death head on, while resisting. I may have uttered a "Help! Me Lord!" I supernaturally obtained the number of the U.S. embassy in Cairo, & eventually talked with some one there. Egypt Air hung up on me 7 times, [ I had to call from their counter; I had no cell..] & they stopped the call over & over, hanging up on me & the Embassy.

Eventually, though, I may have contacted the actual U.S. ambassador. I told him that if he did not help me, I was a dead man, about to be butchered. After seeing the circumstances, he believed me, & had another phone secured. [ Thank-God ]. He dispatched Security to Egypt Air, & eventually I was escorted out of their hands, & flew to Munich Germany; pursued.

I won't get into all of the details, but it did not end there either. I went to Israel from there, & was actually captured by Taliban sympathizers. I believe that I met the anti-Christ ; Osama Bin Laden, & his false prophet; I looked into his eyes...possessed by the Prince of Persia himself, empowered by Satan. In one moment....at night, I saw him face to face....A hooded dragon light emitted from him as he stared at me.

I'm back home now. I am still trembling somewhat at the ordeal. Why? What did I accomplish on this trip? There was virtually no ministry..[ I have been to the East multiple times for the Gospel..]...I have never seen so much Sovereign activity in my life....God arranged everything....in the most perfect of timing. He had set up the Chess board, & He is the beginning & the End. I told the false prophet, & the Taliban, is that they could have me, but not now. I also told them that they would get the Earth, but not all of it, [ There will be Christians translated alive, but changed, to meet Jesus in the Rapture.] & I told them their fate; in the Lake of Eternal Fire. This enraged them....& I also witnessed that Jesus is Lord.

All of the elected are given a testimony. We must endure, just like all of the Apostles, & much of the early church, & tens of thousands of Reformation brothers & sisters who have been faithful unto death. We must believe that it doesn't end there; For us...it is a beginning. The Pearl of Great Price! "Let no man steal your crown!"

"Be faithful unto death, & I will give you a Crown of Life!" Stephan was a witness martyr, for God's glory; a Witness of the Truth & the MAN who IS the Truth....Jesus. He proves that He is the only one worthy.

ALL FOR JESUS NO MATTER THE COST.

 

[TWC]

If you knew the Bible, You would know the Church is already in heaven in the book of Revelation before the first trumpet.
The last trumpet in 1 Cor 15: 52, Is the last trumpet the Church will hear, As it is raptured to heaven, It has nothing to do with the seven trumpets in Revelation.
Anyone who believes the Church goes through the great trubiulation period, Either doesn't know the Bible, or calling God a liar.
If you knew the Bible [Which you don;t], You would know that there are three main resurrections.
[1]The resurrection at the pre-trib rapture.
[2]The first resurrection after Jesus come back with His raptured people.
[3]The resurection of the damned at the day of judgment.

Revelation 20:4-5
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

If there's a resurrection at a supposed pretrib rapture, then this one in Rev. 20 would not be the first, but the second. This makes John either wrong or makes him a liar.

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

John 11:23-24
Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

If you want to argue with what the Bible says, go ahead, but know that your blood is on your own hands.

 

[Alanforchrist]

I am just a pretty simple farm boy and as such believe what Christ says...

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

And this He said to His faithful disciples the night before He was crucified. We don't go there, He comes here.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Occurs at the triumphant return of Christ.Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

At the end of the Millenium.
Frankly, I think you are parroting what someone has told you. The scripture does not support John Nelson Darby's deception.

There are to many scriptures that teach the pre-trib rapture for it not to be true.
The OT Prophets, Jesus and the NT Apostles taught the pre-trib rapture long before Darby..GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT.

Anyone who believe the Church goes through the great tribulation period, Either doesn't know the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar...Either way, Shame on them.

 

[TWC]

There are to many scriptures that teach the pre-trib rapture for it not to be true.
The OT Prophets, Jesus and the NT Apostles taught the pre-trib rapture long before Darby..GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT.

Anyone who believe the Church goes through the great tribulation period, Either doesn't know the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar...Either way, Shame on them.

How about actually backing up your arrogance statements.

 

[ENOCH2010]

Only 2 mass resurrections in the future are spoken of in the Bible

1 the first resurrection, at the start of the 1000 year reign at the second coming of Christ

2 after the 1000 year reign,at the time of the GWT judgement


to add another resurrection for the pre-trib rapture,you might ought to read the last chapter of Rev. and see what the Bible says about adding to this book

 

[Brothertom]

I suppose that believing in a Pre-Trib Rapture is fine, as long as you are prepared to follow the Lamb wherever He may lead you. Mostly, as I see it, it doesn't produce that kind of faith, or resolve. We have discussed the many generations that have been called into TERRIBLE Persecution & TRIBULATION.

THE ROMAN CATHOLIC INQUISITION: 300 YEARS.
Victor Hugo estimated the number of the victims of the Inquisition at FIVE MILLION, it is said, and certainly the number was much greater than that if we take into account, as we should, the wives and husbands, the parents and children, the brothers and sisters, and other relatives of those tortured and slaughtered by the priestly institution. To these millions should properly be added the others killed in the wars precipitated in the attempt to fasten the Inquisition upon the people of various countries, as the Netherlands and Germany.http://seawaves.us/na/Inquisitions.html

These CAME OUT of Great Tribulation, & they were not whisked away before it. I spent time in China, with the true underground Church. Some have been killed; many imprisoned. They had to endure.

I think of some of the ridiculous icons of this nonsense, such as John Hagee. He believes America;s economy will fail, when the Christians are raptured. The Early Church; All of the Apostles suffered.


"And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again.

TRIBULATION SAINTS
...................&............Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment.

..........They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted,[were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise."

That PROMISE will be fullfilled upon the return of the Lord Jesus, when He stops time, & reveals Himself as Jahweh the Creator, & rises from His Throne, & girds His Sword, & THEN we will be raptured; In Greek, the original language in which the Gospel were written; THE PAROUSIA! THE "GATHERING TOGETHER".

Then, the body will be one, from Adam, through Enoch & Noah, the Patriarchs, & the kings of Israel, the prophets & then the Apostles & the saints in the church redeemed, & chosen faithful....but there always has been an endurance, & for many, many, a Great Tribulation to overcome in. This coming Great Tribulation will encompass the whole Earth, & it is ordained by God to prove who loves Him, or the World, their Self-Lives, or the seductions of the Devil more.

IT IS COMING RIGHT HERE TO MAIN STREET AMERICA; TO A WALMART NEAR YOU.

Our preparation is in knowing Him more & more as we abide in Him daily, & grow in a resolve to worship Him, no matter the cost to ourselves.
Tom.

 

[Foreigner]

I suppose that believing in a Pre-Trib Rapture is fine, as long as you are prepared to follow the Lamb wherever He may lead you. Mostly, as I see it, it doesn't produce that kind of faith, or resolve. We have discussed the many generations that have been called into TERRIBLE Persecution & TRIBULATION.

THE ROMAN CATHOLIC INQUISITION: 300 YEARS.
Victor Hugo estimated the number of the victims of the Inquisition at FIVE MILLION, it is said, and certainly the number was much greater than that if we take into account, as we should, the wives and husbands, the parents and children, the brothers and sisters, and other relatives of those tortured and slaughtered by the priestly institution. To these millions should properly be added the others killed in the wars precipitated in the attempt to fasten the Inquisition upon the people of various countries, as the Netherlands and Germany.http://seawaves.us/na/Inquisitions.html



-- No. The death toll of the Inquisition is NOWHERE NEAR FIVE MILLION. Not...even...close.



Germany, using tens of thousands of military personnel to empty ghettos and round up Jews, dedicating a huge part of their rail system to move the Jews, and using gas chambers and mass summary executions to keep things moving quickly - WITHOUT TAKING THE TIME TO HAVE A SINGLE MOCK TRIAL FOR ANY OF THE JEWS BEING KILLED - still took almost eight years to kill that many people.

There is NO WAY killing could have been done on that scale during the Inquisition.

That would have meant that over 45 people per day - every single solitary day for 300 years - would have had to have been put to death.
The time it takes for mock trials for each person aside, There was simply no infrastructure for the Catholic church to accomplish this.

And why not take a gander at the estimated population of all of Europe during that time and see what a ridiculously high percentage of that population that 5 million would have been.

 

[Brothertom]

--" No. The death toll of the Inquisition is NOWHERE NEAR FIVE MILLION. Not...even...close."...Foreigner

As noted, the quote was one by Victor Hugo, one of the most highly respected authors & scholars of his time, & the reference to the Inquisition was simply a proof that generations of true Christians have been through great tribulation, & have been murdered & tortured for their faith, because they refused to bow the knee to Satan.....in one form or another.

Hebrews 11:.....THE TRIBULATION FAITHFUL.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented; of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

WHY? TO OBTAIN A GOOD TESTIMONY!
NEVER TO BOW THE KNEE TO BAAL, ALWAYS TESTIFYING OF JESUS, NO MATTER THE COST!

And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise

God has ordained the Tribulation to try the entire Earth, as to whether they too they love the Lord Jesus more than their own lives, or Baal. Who will you bow to?

 

[Guestman]

There are events and situations that happen before the "great tribulation" can begin according to Jehovah God's "appointed time". After telling them that the temple would be destroyed, four of Jesus apostles asked Jesus a composite question three days before his death: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things ?" (Matt 24:3)

Jesus now gives several identifying features of his (invisible) "presence" that would lead up to the "great tribulation", saying that "nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another." He specified that these would only be "a beginning of pangs of distress."(Matt 24:7, 8)

At 2 Peter 3, the apostle Peter correlates Jesus (invisible) "presence" as being the same as the "last days", saying: "For you know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers proceeding according to their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his ? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as from creation's beginning."(2 Pet 3:3, 4)

Thus, when did Jesus "promised presence" or "last days" begin ? When for the first time was there "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom" on a global scale that was the "beginning of pangs of distress" ? World War I, that began on July 28, 1914. Hence, starting in 1914, the "time of the end" began, in which Jesus was now invisibly "present". What does this mean ?

That Jesus was installed as king of God's kingdom, for the fulfillment of Revelation 6 now occurred. There, it says that a rider on a "white horse" received " a crown", and with his new authority "went forth conquering and to complete his conquest."(Rev 6:2) What resulted from this ? World war broke out, for Revelation 6:4 says that "another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and it was granted to take away peace from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him."

Jesus also said that another feature would occur before the "great tribulation" at Matthew 24:14, which says: "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." This is being accomplished in around the earth, with the "good news of the kingdom" being preached and as a result, many are taking hold of it, becoming "sheep" as opposed to the vast majority of mankind who will be deemed as "goats", stubbornly refusing to accept the "good news of the kingdom."(Matt 7:13, 14)

This global work will be fully accomplished to Jehovah's satisfaction and ongoing right up to the moment the "great tribulation" begins, which, by the way, is a 2 part series. First, Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, must be toppled and "completely burned....with fire" at the hands of the "scarlet-colored wild beast", the United Nations, which will direct her total destruction by means of the "ten horns", all of the political governments on the earth.(Rev 17:16)

This complete annihilation though will not originate from within themselves, but originates with God, who puts his "one thought" into the hearts of both United Nations and all political governments "until the words of God will have been accomplished."(Rev 17:17)

 

[Questor]

There are to many scriptures that teach the pre-trib rapture for it not to be true.
The OT Prophets, Jesus and the NT Apostles taught the pre-trib rapture long before Darby..GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT.

Anyone who believe the Church goes through the great tribulation period, Either doesn't know the Bible, Or they are calling God a liar...Either way, Shame on them.

Alan, I looked for many years into the Bible looking to find the proof of what is stated in the pre-trib websites that promise a pre-tribulation rapture, and into books that proclaimed again and again that there is a pre-trib rapture, and scoured the Bible trying to find the evidence that is so boasted about by pre-trib advocates. I wanted to find proof of a pre-trib rapture...I did not want to see the dark days of the tribulation period approach.

Yes, there are hints and vague statements, that taken out of context, could, if you desire it enough, become a scriptural basis for what you want to believe. But you have to want to believe what you have been taught in support of the pre-trib rapture, despite that what youhave been taught is in direct opposition to what Yah'shua said Himself.

[SIZE=x-small]3[/SIZE] And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
[SIZE=x-small]4[/SIZE] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
[SIZE=x-small]5[/SIZE] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
[SIZE=x-small]6[/SIZE] And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
[SIZE=x-small]7[/SIZE] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
[SIZE=x-small]8[/SIZE] All these are the beginning of sorrows.
[SIZE=x-small]9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake[/SIZE].
[SIZE=x-small]10[/SIZE] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
[SIZE=x-small]11[/SIZE] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[SIZE=x-small]12[/SIZE] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
[SIZE=x-small]13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]14[/SIZE] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[SIZE=x-small]15[/SIZE] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[SIZE=x-small]16[/SIZE] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[SIZE=x-small]17[/SIZE] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[SIZE=x-small]18[/SIZE] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[SIZE=x-small]19[/SIZE] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[SIZE=x-small]20[/SIZE] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[SIZE=x-small]21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]22[/SIZE] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[SIZE=x-small]23[/SIZE] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[SIZE=x-small]24[/SIZE] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[SIZE=x-small]25[/SIZE] Behold, I have told you before.
[SIZE=x-small]26[/SIZE] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
[SIZE=x-small]27[/SIZE] For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[SIZE=x-small]28[/SIZE] For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
[SIZE=x-small]29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30[/SIZE] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[SIZE=x-small]31[/SIZE] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Matt 24:3-31 (KJV)


Alan, I understand the passionate desire to believe what you have been taught by others, especially when the idea is so comforting, believing that you will be in Heaven when all the bad stuff happens.

But when Yah'shua discussed the time of the end, how it would begin, and progress, and end with His return, He mentions nothing about about any catching away UNTIL HE RETURNS!

How can you, or anyone, take any man's statements, even those of Paul, or John, whether a word, or line vaguely taken out of context, as superior to the specific statement of Yah'shua, Son of YHVH in Mathew 24: 3-21?

How can you ignore the specifics Yah'shua stated Himself over any bits and pieces that have been cobbled together, a line here, a sentence there, to fit a soothing guarantee of being no longer where the Evil one can get to you, when again, Yah'shua said specifically that there would be much tribulation and sorrow, imprisonment, and even death before He returned?

Yes, there are many who will not die despite all that the Adversay wants, because YHVH is able to protect whomever He wishes.

Unfortunately, the time of the AntiChrist's rule as a god, during the second half of the 7 Year tribulation, the murder of many Believers are going to be allowed by YHVH, and each death will provoke many to desire Yah'shua.


[SIZE=x-small]5[/SIZE] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[SIZE=x-small]6[/SIZE] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[SIZE=x-small]7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]8[/SIZE] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[SIZE=x-small]9[/SIZE] If any man have an ear, let him hear.


Rev 13:5-9 (KJV)


Alan, no where in the Scriptures does it state plainly that those who believe in Yah'shua are going to be protected by being pulled out of the world.

Yes, YHVH will protect many, but many others will not be protected from the AntiChrist.

I know that you will prefer to take the words of your teachers, supported by scant bits and pieces of Scripture, to convince you that no real persecution will step in your vicinity, because it is so much easier than living with all that Yah'shua has so plainly said.

The AntiChrist will come. He will eventually declare himself god. And then, he will demand worship of everyone, or their death for refusing.

This is not what I believe. It is what Yah'shua has said.

And so, I keep watch, and I prepare myself to stand until death if I must, because what Yah'shua says spcifically is more important to me than any pretty stories that mankind has taught.



Q

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Guestman.

There are events and situations that happen before the "great tribulation" can begin according to Jehovah God's "appointed time". After telling them that the temple would be destroyed, four of Jesus apostles asked Jesus a composite question three days before his death: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things ?" (Matt 24:3)

Jesus now gives several identifying features of his (invisible) "presence" that would lead up to the "great tribulation", saying that "nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another." He specified that these would only be "a beginning of pangs of distress."(Matt 24:7, 8)

At 2 Peter 3, the apostle Peter correlates Jesus (invisible) "presence" as being the same as the "last days", saying: "For you know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers proceeding according to their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his ? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as from creation's beginning."(2 Pet 3:3, 4)

Thus, when did Jesus "promised presence" or "last days" begin ? When for the first time was there "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom" on a global scale that was the "beginning of pangs of distress" ? World War I, that began on July 28, 1914. Hence, starting in 1914, the "time of the end" began, in which Jesus was now invisibly "present". What does this mean ?

That Jesus was installed as king of God's kingdom, for the fulfillment of Revelation 6 now occurred. There, it says that a rider on a "white horse" received " a crown", and with his new authority "went forth conquering and to complete his conquest."(Rev 6:2) What resulted from this ? World war broke out, for Revelation 6:4 says that "another came forth, a fiery-colored horse; and it was granted to take away peace from the earth so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him."

Jesus also said that another feature would occur before the "great tribulation" at Matthew 24:14, which says: "And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." This is being accomplished in around the earth, with the "good news of the kingdom" being preached and as a result, many are taking hold of it, becoming "sheep" as opposed to the vast majority of mankind who will be deemed as "goats", stubbornly refusing to accept the "good news of the kingdom."(Matt 7:13, 14)

This global work will be fully accomplished to Jehovah's satisfaction and ongoing right up to the moment the "great tribulation" begins, which, by the way, is a 2 part series. First, Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, must be toppled and "completely burned....with fire" at the hands of the "scarlet-colored wild beast", the United Nations, which will direct her total destruction by means of the "ten horns", all of the political governments on the earth.(Rev 17:16)

This complete annihilation though will not originate from within themselves, but originates with God, who puts his "one thought" into the hearts of both United Nations and all political governments "until the words of God will have been accomplished."(Rev 17:17)

I'm not going to let you get by with this one. You should AVOID using any form of Young's Literal Translation! The Greek word "parousia" does NOT mean "presence"; it means an "arrival." It's not just a "being along side"; it means "a becoming along side," speaking of a PHYSICAL RETURN, not just an "invisible presence!" The same word, "parousia," was used for the physical arrival of Stephanas, Fortunatus, and Achaius in 1 Corinthians 16:17 and for Titus in 2 Corinthians 7:6-7. It is a misrepresentation of Scripture to say it refers to a "presence," let alone an "invisible presence!"

 

[Brothertom]

"Behold, I have told you before!
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:
behold, he is in the SECRET CHAMBERS believe it not.

" For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be!"
Jesus of Nazareth.

The Lord confronted this idea of a "secret Rapture" head on. He said reject it, His second coming would be Dynamic, Visible & Global. We will not be carried away in blessing before trouble comes; the faithful are called to overcome, not escape.

"He that OVERCOMES shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

For whatsoever is born of God OVERCOMES the world: and this is the victory that OVERCOMES the world, even our faith.


"To him who OVERCOMES will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."...Jesus

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace.

" In the world YOU SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have OVERCOME the world.
JESUS.

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that OVERCOMES will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:26
And he that OVERCOMES, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 3:5
He that OVERCOMES, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12
Him that OVERCOMES will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."...................

THE ANTI-CHRIST IS COMING, & HIS WAR IS AGAINST THE SAINTS; THOSE ELECTED & CALLED BY GOD.

"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

And it was given unto him TO MAKE WAR WITH THE SAINTS & TO OVERCOME THEM : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."



THIS OCCURS RIGHT SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF TRUE, GREAT TRIBULATION, WHEN THE EARTH WILL RUN RED WITH THE BLOOD OF MANY SAINTS.
HOW CAN THEY SUFFER, & OVERCOME THE GRAVE, WHEN THEY SURELY CANNOT BE THERE WITH THE FANTASY OF A PRE-TRIBULATION SECRET RAPTURE?

So many scriptures are violated embracing this fairy-tale, that it is mind boggling, & to what avail? I think it is to appease the souls of the fearful, & those who value their current lives, an to opiate them with a false hope that they will never have to suffer; after all, it is God's motive to Bless you isn't it? No! It is God's plan that you overcome by faith whatever the circumstance, & bring Him honor & glory, as JOB, as ALL of the Apostles, Stephan the 1st Christian martyr..[ many prophets before him ], & millions since all around the world & through time.

It also reinforces the false notion that endurance & suffering equates God's Wrath; God's punishment. It is a lie. Consider the Apostle Paul's first word from God;

"Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake."

Everyone of us that follow the Lamb, to one degree or another, will be called into suffering. Some, into Martyrdom, imprisonment, hardship...just like Hebrews 11.

This is not a happy feet word...at all...it is very sobering, & fearful....& consider the children, & the innocent, the infirmed. The answer to overcoming is to keep our eyes of our heart on Jesus, & bear our Cross, our death, day by day, as we gain Him...& allow Him to consume us; possess us...& pay that daily price of learning to love.

WE MUST LEARN TO KNOW HIM & SUBMIT TO HIM TODAY, WHILE THERE IS TIME.....THE WISE VIRGINS TOOK SUFFIECIENT OIL...DIED TO THEMSELVES....& WALKED CONSUMED BY THE ANOINTING HIMSELF...& WERE PREPARED.......BUT OTHERS REFUSED.....& LIVED LIFE FOR THEMSELVES.

" If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trusted, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?"

THE HORSEMEN ARE RIDING & THE SWELLING OF THE JORDAN ARE APPROACHING VERY QUICKLY.