Prophect Alert - Be ready to endure the last days

[Nancy]

Well let's not get ahead of ourselves here :) I didn't state that I completely agree with you regarding the '93 peace accord being the "covenant with many" in Daniel 9, nor do I disagree either. It's the first I've heard of it, so please give me some time to investigate and research it before I can comment (and I'm loaded up this weekend with work, plus my "homework" regarding LDS, so please be patient with me - I'll get to it though, I'm interested in it).

If, and a big if here cause I don't know, '93 accord was not the "covenant with many" in Daniel 9, and if Trump and Kushner's peace deal is not it, then it could still be future. It could still be a peace deal that suceeds where Trump & Kushner's fails; like you said, it could go the way of Arafat's negotiations.

Or Trump & Kushner's peace deal could go through, with an Israeli PM that is, at least viewed as, more sympathetic to the Palestinians/Arabs.

I don't agree that there won't be a peace deal until Jesus returns (to clarify, Jesus' second coming when He touches the earth in Revelation 19:11-20 "11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS.17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.") because the battle of Armageddon is concluded when Jesus destroys the beast and his followers, unless you consider a victory in war a "peace deal"...

Good post
All of this stuff is so complicated...I have always been taught that the peace deal will usher in the AC...(3.5 years of peace until the AC sets himself up as God standing in the Temple) and re-institutes animal sacrifice. Then 3.5 years of tribulation as never before and then Jesus returns with His army. I'm so scholar, not even close. I am not even sure if the "Temple" will be a physical thing...I do tend to believe that as I know High Priests are being interviewed and they already have many building materials so...just not sure. The dispensations are quite confusing to me.
Great post @4Jesus

 

[Bobby Jo]

... It could still be a peace deal that succeeds where Trump & Kushner's fails; like you said, it could go the way of Arafat's negotiations. ...

Negotiations are not agreements. It appears you're hoping for an agreement. Please expect to be disappointed.

... the battle of Armageddon is concluded when Jesus destroys the beast and his followers, unless you consider a victory in war a "peace deal"...

It appears to me that there are TWO battles to be fought:

The first is given in Eze. 38 & 39, and Dan. 11:40-44.
The second is given in Rev. 6:12-17, and in Dan. 11:45.​

And your cited "battle of Armageddon" is in the FIRST instance, which we see moving forward in the news; is expected to commence within days/weeks; will encompass the Middle East and Russia (along with Libya, modern Sudan, and include China); and will take approximately a year to conclude.

The second battle will simply be a global exchange of nuclear weapons, after which Jesus will appear -- in the Fall of 2021.

But before you consider the tail-end-of-the-"book" (prophecies), perhaps you should start at the beginning of the "book" (prophecies) and arrive at the end.


With Regards,
Bobby Jo

 

[4Jesus]

Good post
All of this stuff is so complicated...I have always been taught that the peace deal will usher in the AC...(3.5 years of peace until the AC sets himself up as God standing in the Temple) and re-institutes animal sacrifice. Then 3.5 years of tribulation as never before and then Jesus returns with His army. I'm so scholar, not even close. I am not even sure if the "Temple" will be a physical thing...I do tend to believe that as I know High Priests are being interviewed and they already have many building materials so...just not sure. The dispensations are quite confusing to me.
Great post @4Jesus

I'm the same as you. I was taught the AC makes a peace deal with Israel and pretty much everyone else, as they view him/the beast as their (false) messiah. When he rips up the deal, Jews will know he is not The Messiah, and some will then turn to God-the-Father and God-the-Son for salvation, recognizing Jesus Christ as The Messiah.

Could this teaching have been wrong, and the info that Bobby Jo has right (regarding the '93 peace accord), sure. I haven't investigated it yet though so I'm not concluded on it yet.

Regarding the "Temple" though, it appears to be discussed more and more, if you believe what is said about it obviously. Here's some recent articles and "The Temple Institute" website to dig through if you're interested:
-The Third Temple Plans - The Temple Institute: Detailed Blueprints for the Holy Temple: The Chamber of Hewn Stone
-Red Heifer (animal sacrifice) - The Temple Institute: The Mystery of the Red Heifer: Divine Promise of Purity Check out the Introduction if it's too much to read through

Sources supporting building of Third Temple:
Top Rabbi in Israel: We Must Build the Third Temple
Trump could Initiate Building of Third Temple as Head of Edom

Sorry if it's too much information. Of course, it could all not be true and just talk or hopes I guess.

 

[4Jesus]

You are sweet ❤

;) Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Bobby Jo]

..I have always been taught that the peace deal will usher in the AC...(3.5 years of peace until the AC sets himself up as God standing in the Temple) and re-institutes animal sacrifice. Then 3.5 years of tribulation ...

You've been "taught" (and I use that term loosely) exactly as explained to @4Jesus where the commentators KNOW that they have a FALSE explanation for the Book of Daniel, but it's the BEST Lie they have, so that's what you get.

The fact is, neither the literal Hebrew Text supports the contortions that YOUR "translation" offers!!! There is NO PRECEDENT in Scripture or ANY Society where a pair of shoes cost "seven and sixty-two" dollars. -- A mile and a quarter; a cup and a half; four score and ten; -- all legitimate. But Newton observed that if GOD had intended to say "sixty-nine" HE would have said "sixty-nine".

So when you see ancient fulfillments for the Prophecies of Daniel, -- remember that the Angel (12:4 & 9) said NO. These prophecies are shut up and sealed until the time of the end, -- which is approximate to the 1900's to 2000's.


And it does take some work to arrive to the TRUTH of Scripture, but for me it's more than worth it to receive what GOD has for HIS children!
Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

I'm the same as you. I was taught the AC makes a peace deal with Israel and pretty much everyone else, as they view him/the beast as their (false) messiah. When he rips up the deal, Jews will know he is not The Messiah, and some will then turn to God-the-Father and God-the-Son for salvation, recognizing Jesus Christ as The Messiah.

Could this teaching have been wrong, and the info that Bobby Jo has right (regarding the '93 peace accord), sure. I haven't investigated it yet though so I'm not concluded on it yet.

Regarding the "Temple" though, it appears to be discussed more and more, if you believe what is said about it obviously. Here's some recent articles and "The Temple Institute" website to dig through if you're interested:
-The Third Temple Plans - The Temple Institute: Detailed Blueprints for the Holy Temple: The Chamber of Hewn Stone
-Red Heifer (animal sacrifice) - The Temple Institute: The Mystery of the Red Heifer: Divine Promise of Purity Check out the Introduction if it's too much to read through

Sources supporting building of Third Temple:
Top Rabbi in Israel: We Must Build the Third Temple
Trump could Initiate Building of Third Temple as Head of Edom

Sorry if it's too much information. Of course, it could all not be true and just talk or hopes I guess.

Thank you for the sites, I will certainly read them, only so far as understanding is opened to me. I suppose the big difference in opinions is the timing? Because I can see both fitting in. Also, I suppose it would depend on belief or not in the "Pre-Trib Rapture...I used to believe that, long time too. I have been questioning it for about a year and a half now and am now leaning to no Pre-Trib Rapture but again...I am certain of nothing there, lol. We will all know all truth soon enough! I do not believe in setting dates as some do either. Even Jesus does not know of His own return yet as...God has not SPOKEN it yet?? :)

 

[4Jesus]

Negotiations are not agreements. It appears you're hoping for an agreement. Please expect to be disappointed.



It appears to me that there are TWO battles to be fought:

The first is given in Eze. 38 & 39, and Dan. 11:40-44.
The second is given in Rev. 6:12-17, and in Dan. 11:45.​

And your cited "battle of Armageddon" is in the FIRST instance, which we see moving forward in the news; is expected to commence within days/weeks; will encompass the Middle East and Russia (along with Libya, modern Sudan, and include China); and will take approximately a year to conclude.

The second battle will simply be a global exchange of nuclear weapons, after which Jesus will appear -- in the Fall of 2021.

But before you consider the tail-end-of-the-"book" (prophecies), perhaps you should start at the beginning of the "book" (prophecies) and arrive at the end.


With Regards,
Bobby Jo

No, I didn't say I hope for an agreement; I've stated at least once already that I think the Trump & Kusher peace deal will fail - possibly setup to fail so another can make a deal that succeeds . I said Arafat's negotiations failed, in agreement with your statement.

That "tail-end-of-the-book" (prophecies) was given in the past for a future day, after the beginning of the "book", but could conclude the beginning of the "book"; it's not definitive yet, but it might be wrong too. And if it is wrong, that means there's other events to look for, which is what you're suggesting, and I'm going to research it. As I stated, please give me a little time to digest the info from another viewpoint.

Fair enough?

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Regarding the "Temple" ...

I believe that Jesus addressed this subject in John 2:19; and Paul in 1 Cor. 3:16 and 1 Cor. 6:15, among other places.

But some have different agendas ...
Bobby Jo

 

[4Jesus]

Thank you for the sites, I will certainly read them, only so far as understanding is opened to me. I suppose the big difference in opinions is the timing? Because I can see both fitting in. Also, I suppose it would depend on belief or not in the "Pre-Trib Rapture...I used to believe that, long time too. I have been questioning it for about a year and a half now and am now leaning to no Pre-Trib Rapture but again...I am certain of nothing there, lol. We will all know all truth soon enough! I do not believe in setting dates as some do either. Even Jesus does not know of His own return yet as...God has not SPOKEN it yet?? :)

Yeah I hear ya on the timing. That's what it all comes down to I suppose - when do all the things happen.

Agreed on the "pre-trib rapture" too; I can see an argument for "mid-trib rapture":
-Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." could support mid-trib if the "hour of temptation" is the "mark of the beast" in Revelation 13.
-1 Corinthians 15:51-52 "
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Where in the Bible is the last trumpet sounded? Revelation 11, about midway through the events of Revelation.
-1 Thessalonians 4:16 " For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" It doesn't actually say Jesus will descend to earth. Not that He won't, just a possiblity.

It's a lot. Sorry to just have added more :)

I agree with you - no date setting for me. And like you said, if even Jesus doesn't know, no way I will.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... so another can make a deal that succeeds.

Yep, that's what you suggest, -- and NO, nothing will succeed.

... As I stated, please give me a little time to digest the info from another viewpoint.

The "New Bible Commentary" offers the following:

“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”[1]

Note: According to the dictionary[2] a legion consists of 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers, and 300 to 700 cavalry.​

[1] Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699
[2] Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary - 2nd ed, p. 1035​

So yeah, good luck on validating the TRUTH against some thousand lies, without any warnings as to what the literal Hebrew ACTUALLY SAYS.

Yep, the seventy sevens are 490 -- NOT!!! -- Daniel didn't employ the usual concise Feminine Gender text, but instead chose the unusual inconcise Masculine Gender text. Thus the seventy "sevens" are NOT 490. -- Per Young, Kiel, & Kliefoth:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]


“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]

[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, , p. 217
[2] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, , p. 218​

... Fair enough?

Nope, because I don't think you can get past all their lies without knowing where the snares are laid.

With Regards,
Bobby Jo

 

[4Jesus]

Yep, that's what you suggest, -- and NO, nothing will succeed.

I mentioned it was an "if" before. Sorry I didn't rewrite that same idea to make it explicitly clear. If another deal succeeds; if I conclude your information is not accurate.

Better?

The "New Bible Commentary" offers the following:

“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”[1]

Note: According to the dictionary[2] a legion consists of 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers, and 300 to 700 cavalry.​

[1] Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699
[2] Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary - 2nd ed, p. 1035​

So yeah, good luck on validating the TRUTH against some thousand lies, without any warnings as to what the literal Hebrew ACTUALLY SAYS.

Yep, the seventy sevens are 490 -- NOT!!! -- Daniel didn't employ the usual concise Feminine Gender text, but instead chose the unusual inconcise Masculine Gender text. Thus the seventy "sevens" are NOT 490. -- Per Young, Kiel, & Kliefoth:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]


“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]

[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, , p. 217
[2] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, , p. 218​

Nope, because I don't think you can get past all their lies without knowing where the snares are laid.

With Regards,
Bobby Jo

Do you want to make the conclusion for me, or let me try to view this differently then make a conclusion?

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I can see an argument for "mid-trib rapture" ...

We can all "guess" or we can find out. And Rev. 20 says post-trib, yeah about a thousand years "post-trib". -- Like when first the dead are raised, and then those who are alive and remain on earth shall ascend to the New Jerusalem.

... no date setting for me. ...

And I also agree with Scripture which says: no man knows the day or the hour. But what kind of idiot would extrapolate that to include: week; month; season; year (1); decade (10); score (20); century (100; daytona (500); or millennia (1,000)?!? -- Who'd be so stupid as to add to Scripture???

With Regards,
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Do you want to make the conclusion for me, or let me try to view this differently then make a conclusion?

You SHOULD reach your own conclusion. The only question is, -- do you have the EVIDENCE necessary to decide, -- or will you believe the LIES which are given?!?

Pick up a Commentary, any Commentary, and I'll bet you'll find that the "seventy sevens" are fulfilled with Jesus' arrival on earth. Yep, that's EXACTLY the era in which the angel demanded we would be traveling some 60 to 600 mph, and would have instant knowledge at our literal fingertips:

Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”​

So either believe Scripture, or believe what you're told.


Good Luck, you're going to need it!
Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

"4Jesus, post: 626431, member: 8105"]I'm the same as you. I was taught the AC makes a peace deal with Israel and pretty much everyone else, as they view him/the beast as their (false) messiah. When he rips up the deal, Jews will know he is not The Messiah, and some will then turn to God-the-Father and God-the-Son for salvation, recognizing Jesus Christ as The Messiah.

Could this teaching have been wrong, and the info that Bobby Jo has right (regarding the '93 peace accord), sure. I haven't investigated it yet though so I'm not concluded on it yet.

Regarding the "Temple" though, it appears to be discussed more and more, if you believe what is said about it obviously. Here's some recent articles and "The Temple Institute" website to dig through if you're interested:
-The Third Temple Plans - The Temple Institute: Detailed Blueprints for the Holy Temple: The Chamber of Hewn Stone
-Red Heifer (animal sacrifice) - The Temple Institute: The Mystery of the Red Heifer: Divine Promise of Purity Check out the Introduction if it's too much to read through

Sources supporting building of Third Temple:
Top Rabbi in Israel: We Must Build the Third Temple
Trump could Initiate Building of Third Temple as Head of Edom

Sorry if it's too much information. Of course, it could all not be true and just talk or hopes I guess.[/QUOTE]

Not at all ,but it would be too much info had I sat and read one after another, but, I will read a bit at a time, lol.
I just read the one from The Jerusalem Post. I read somewhere that some Jewish sects believe they are not to build the Temple until the Messiah appears.
The wall has been crumbling for awhile now. Could be the Temple Mount will be destroyed by an earthquake? Another article I read concerning the positioning of the 3rd Temple was talking about the West (Wailing) Wall and the outer Plaza belonging to the old Temple and the Jews. It is the most sacred place for the Jews, since the destruction of the last one. Maybe only part of the old foundation is required to rebuild? Ahhh! So many "maybe's !

"Today, the only thing that remains of the temple is a wall that retained the mountain on which the temple was built, called Temple Mount. The wall is known as the Western Wall, or Kotel by Jews, and it has been a site of Jewish prayer and pilgrimage since the destruction of the Second Temple.
Jews believe that because this wall was built through funds donated by the poor, God decreed that His Divine Presence would never leave the Western Wall."
The History and Ruins of Jerusalem's Temple

pondering nancy :)

 

[Nancy]

Yeah I hear ya on the timing. That's what it all comes down to I suppose - when do all the things happen.

Agreed on the "pre-trib rapture" too; I can see an argument for "mid-trib rapture":
-Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." could support mid-trib if the "hour of temptation" is the "mark of the beast" in Revelation 13.
-1 Corinthians 15:51-52 "
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Where in the Bible is the last trumpet sounded? Revelation 11, about midway through the events of Revelation.
-1 Thessalonians 4:16 " For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" It doesn't actually say Jesus will descend to earth. Not that He won't, just a possiblity.

It's a lot. Sorry to just have added more :)

I agree with you - no date setting for me. And like you said, if even Jesus doesn't know, no way I will.

You are just fine posting 4 Jesus. I enjoy your posts, I can relate to them and BTW-I am a closet Mid-Tribber Hahaha. You found those scriptures faster and better than I could! But then, I am of the belief that ALL of us should be ready, at all times to expect the un-expected and not become set in stone about these doctrines...they all just seem to go round in circles.
It might not say Jesus descends to Earth but He WILL be in our atmosphere if in the clouds that we can see? And, why, in Matt. 24 when Jesus is telling His disciples what the GT would be...He then says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

He is "coming..." coming where? My guess would be back to this Earth for the 2nd time yet...JMHO!
Such interesting stuff. Thank you for sharing and I will try to get to the others as well. :)

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I am a closet Mid-Tribber Hahaha. ...

One of the problems with false doctrines is that they circumvent both Scripture and rational thinking. Consider what would happen if there were a Tribulation era "rapture".

Would the "church" stay in "heaven"/"New Jerusalem" until they're joined by all those who live and die, and are actually "raptured" at the end of the Millennial Kingdom? -- Or would they return to earth with Jesus to rule and reign during the Millennial Kingdom?

Rev. 20:4 ... I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.​

Oops. The Scriptures forgot to include the "church". So I guess the Tribulation era "church" is either not worthy of recognition, or it's simply NOT INCLUDED in those who return to rule and reign with Jesus.

However, logic does demand that anyone still alive on earth at the end of the Millennial Kingdom, (and there will be MANY), will require some form of ascension to the New Jerusalem, -- either by pogo stick, trampoline, those little springs on the bottoms of your shoes, OR A RAPTURE EVENT.


As such, it seems that GOD (or maybe the "church") isn't logical in this false doctrine. But this isn't the end of the concern. For you see, we WILL go through (and ARE PRESENTLY IN) the Tribulation. So are you preparing for the day when you won't be able to buy or sell? Or will you be among the "great falling away" where the cares of the world overcome a person's commitment to Jesus, -- as happened to Peter in the courtyard?!?


Ahhhhhhh, now we see that satan's lie has consequences!
Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

One of the problems with false doctrines is that they circumvent both Scripture and rational thinking. Consider what would happen if there were a Tribulation era "rapture".

Would the "church" stay in "heaven"/"New Jerusalem" until they're joined by all those who live and die, and are actually "raptured" at the end of the Millennial Kingdom? -- Or would they return to earth with Jesus to rule and reign during the Millennial Kingdom?

Rev. 20:4 ... I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.​

Oops. The Scriptures forgot to include the "church". So I guess the Tribulation era "church" is either not worthy of recognition, or it's simply NOT INCLUDED in those who return to rule and reign with Jesus.

However, logic does demand that anyone still alive on earth at the end of the Millennial Kingdom, (and there will be MANY), will require some form of ascension to the New Jerusalem, -- either by pogo stick, trampoline, those little springs on the bottoms of your shoes, OR A RAPTURE EVENT.


As such, it seems that GOD (or maybe the "church") isn't logical in this false doctrine. But this isn't the end of the concern. For you see, we WILL go through (and ARE PRESENTLY IN) the Tribulation. So are you preparing for the day when you won't be able to buy or sell? Or will you be among the "great falling away" where the cares of the world overcome a person's commitment to Jesus, -- as happened to Peter in the courtyard?!?


Ahhhhhhh, now we see that satan's lie has consequences!
Bobby Jo

I happen to believe that our Great God is powerful enough to make ALL of these events happen at the same time. Can He not have the dead rise first from their graves...unless they are already with Him...(which is what I believe) and then "rapture" up the other ones who are still living on this Earth when He comes in the clouds? Can He not instantly prepare them to rule and reign with Him? And, how can you be SO SURE that Christians of this age, who have passed on will be raptured AFTER the 1000 yr. rein when those who have died before the living ones are supposed to be raptured first? I do not want to back and forth with you on this as, I have limited information not to mention I'm not at all set in stone and God will reveal it to us as He sees fit to.
Gods Blessings

 

[4Jesus]

Not at all ,but it would be too much info had I sat and read one after another, but, I will read a bit at a time, lol.
I just read the one from The Jerusalem Post. I read somewhere that some Jewish sects believe they are not to build the Temple until the Messiah appears.

Oof, well, we're at a small opening, and it's not a rabbit hole - it's too big to be a rabbit hole. Are you ready to enter this cave? Have your flashlight? Check. Have your helmet strapped on? Check. Is your safety rope tied tight around your waist? Check. Mine too. Check. Let's enter the cave:
Oh, what's the over there. Just a bat, hanging out. Probably looking out for his/her family. Let's keep going...
*Shines the light* What is that...That's it, let's check it out:
I'm not arguing the some Jewish sects believe they are not to build the Temple until the (false) Messiah appears. But what is meant by "build the Temple"? Does that strictly mean construction commences, the physical building of the Third Temple? Or does that include the architectural plans are considered "building"? If we go by the strict meaning of "building the Temple", then it is still inline with their beliefs.

Oh, what's the over there in the cave? Well, let's check it out:
The (false) messiah/beast/antichrist could be alive and well now, here on earth, and is being hidden from public view (since they control the media, this wouldn't be hard to hide from the public, including those Jewish sects, and JPost), for just the right time (I think for when the 1st seal of the 4 seals/riders in Revelation is opened), which would then proceed with the building when he's been "revealed" to the public. Construction wouldn't take long, once the Jews accept him as being the long-awaited (false) messiah.

Ok, we checked out this cave. Maybe there's more to it, maybe not. Let's use our safety ropes to climb back out for now; we can come back later, agreed? We're out, safely...high five!

The wall has been crumbling for awhile now. Could be the Temple Mount will be destroyed by an earthquake? Another article I read concerning the positioning of the 3rd Temple was talking about the West (Wailing) Wall and the outer Plaza belonging to the old Temple and the Jews. It is the most sacred place for the Jews, since the destruction of the last one. Maybe only part of the old foundation is required to rebuild? Ahhh! So many "maybe's !

"Today, the only thing that remains of the temple is a wall that retained the mountain on which the temple was built, called Temple Mount. The wall is known as the Western Wall, or Kotel by Jews, and it has been a site of Jewish prayer and pilgrimage since the destruction of the Second Temple.
Jews believe that because this wall was built through funds donated by the poor, God decreed that His Divine Presence would never leave the Western Wall."
The History and Ruins of Jerusalem's Temple

pondering nancy :)

I thought about the Temple Mount too, and how it must come down for it be not Muslim/Arab anymore, but totally controlled by Jews. To me, and not saying I'm right, it could go a couple of ways: 1) someone knocks it off with a missle, possibly a "whoops" moment, say a stray from Iran. Then that sparks a war, even if minor. The result is the Jews gain control, and construction can begin. 2)God sends a natural calamity, such as an earthquake, to destroy the Temple Mount. If this is the case, it would show that God/"God" is for the Jews and against the Muslims, which would then be a small event for some Muslims to rethink their "God" and go searching for a new one, which happens to be right around the block, waiting to be revealed, as the (false) messiah/beast/antichrist. Jews gain control of the temple area, also, and construction begins.

About the Wailing Wall, I'm not sure. I doubt the Jews would destroy it or add on to it; it's a relic of an earlier time. Maybe they'd add on to it, or at least, connect it/incorporate it into the general area?

 

[Nancy]

Hmmmm...

 

[4Jesus]

Hmmmm...

Woah - looks like it might be option #1 above, missle lobbed by Iran to Israel, hitting the Temple Mount in a "whoops" :)