Prophect Alert - Be ready to endure the last days

[4Jesus]

You are just fine posting 4 Jesus. I enjoy your posts, I can relate to them and BTW-I am a closet Mid-Tribber Hahaha. You found those scriptures faster and better than I could! But then, I am of the belief that ALL of us should be ready, at all times to expect the un-expected and not become set in stone about these doctrines...they all just seem to go round in circles.
It might not say Jesus descends to Earth but He WILL be in our atmosphere if in the clouds that we can see? And, why, in Matt. 24 when Jesus is telling His disciples what the GT would be...He then says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

He is "coming..." coming where? My guess would be back to this Earth for the 2nd time yet...JMHO!
Such interesting stuff. Thank you for sharing and I will try to get to the others as well.

Hehehe, "closet Mid-Tribber", great way to put it I agree, I'm ready to go today; actually, I've been ready to go in the rapture for the past 20 years or so, ha!

Agreed that they all go in circles. It will only happen one way, God's way; none other matter. We can speculate, but maybe God-the-Father and God-the-Son gave us just enough information to know the timing surrounding these events, without wanting us to know the details of His plan - actually, more like, not wanting the evil one and his followers to know the details (like with Jesus' birth, the enemy knew He was coming, just didn't know who/when/where exactly, so they couldn't kill him before He could be tempted by sin and remain sinless then sacrificed for our sins).

I think with the "second coming" debate, that is inherently what you suggested - that the "second coming" strictly is Jesus setting foot on Earth and an earthquake occuring because of it, splitting the Mount of Olives (if I remember correctly), then destroying the beast and his followers, and then not going anywhere so as to reign for the millenium Kingdom. The "coming in the clouds", to just the atmosphere, is what some call the "second coming", so the definition of it can be misleading (or not, my view could be wrong of course).

As far as the Matthew 24 verses, specifically in verse 30, it could just be He comes to the atmosphere of earth (and not touch down on it) to "call" to us, to turn those believers alive into our Heavenly bodies, and to resurrect our dead brothers and sisters, also to turn them into our Heavenly bodies. Additionally, during the "second coming" later in Revelation, where Jesus does "touchdown" on Earth explicitly, the "armies of Heaven" could include us saints, following behind Him.

Again, just speculation.

Let me ask you this, Revelation 19:11-19 "11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS.17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.",

do you agree that Jesus will descend from Heaven and will make war with the beast and his followers on Earth?

So if the Matthew 24 verses are Jesus coming back down to Earth as the second coming, in Revelation 19 He comes back down from Heaven to Earth to destroy the beast and his followers, when did Jesus go back up (presuming that Matthew 24 was a future prophecy that occurs after Jesus crucifixtion of course)? So if Matthew 24 is the 2nd coming, is Revelation 19 the 3rd coming. I've never heard of a 3rd coming (and not saying I don't have all the information, I don't think I do), just a 2nd coming.

Again, this could be wrong, but makes me think Matthew 24 isn't the actual 2nd coming, in the strict sense of a touch down on Earth, while Revelation 19 does state that He will explicitly.

*shrug*

 

[4Jesus]

I happen to believe that our Great God is powerful enough to make ALL of these events happen at the same time. Can He not have the dead rise first from their graves...unless they are already with Him...(which is what I believe) and then "rapture" up the other ones who are still living on this Earth when He comes in the clouds? Can He not instantly prepare them to rule and reign with Him? And, how can you be SO SURE that Christians of this age, who have passed on will be raptured AFTER the 1000 yr. rein when those who have died before the living ones are supposed to be raptured first? I do not want to back and forth with you on this as, I have limited information not to mention I'm not at all set in stone and God will reveal it to us as He sees fit to.
Gods Blessings

Agreed. I don't understand when people put limits on what God can do - the only thing God can not do is not be God . Even Jesus said "with God all things are possible"...maybe a byproduct of living here in the "see and hear" world?

 

[Bobby Jo]

I happen to believe that our Great God is powerful enough to make ALL of these events happen at the same time. ...

GOD doesn't go against HIS own Word, and HE provided a sequence. Now if you don't like HIS sequence, or your teachers contradict HIS Word, then we all make choices. But choose wisely!

1 Thess. 4:16 ... And the dead in Christ will rise first; 17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. ​

Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

Hehehe, "closet Mid-Tribber", great way to put it I agree, I'm ready to go today; actually, I've been ready to go in the rapture for the past 20 years or so, ha!

Agreed that they all go in circles. It will only happen one way, God's way; none other matter. We can speculate, but maybe God-the-Father and God-the-Son gave us just enough information to know the timing surrounding these events, without wanting us to know the details of His plan - actually, more like, not wanting the evil one and his followers to know the details (like with Jesus' birth, the enemy knew He was coming, just didn't know who/when/where exactly, so they couldn't kill him before He could be tempted by sin and remain sinless then sacrificed for our sins).

I think with the "second coming" debate, that is inherently what you suggested - that the "second coming" strictly is Jesus setting foot on Earth and an earthquake occuring because of it, splitting the Mount of Olives (if I remember correctly), then destroying the beast and his followers, and then not going anywhere so as to reign for the millenium Kingdom. The "coming in the clouds", to just the atmosphere, is what some call the "second coming", so the definition of it can be misleading (or not, my view could be wrong of course).

As far as the Matthew 24 verses, specifically in verse 30, it could just be He comes to the atmosphere of earth (and not touch down on it) to "call" to us, to turn those believers alive into our Heavenly bodies, and to resurrect our dead brothers and sisters, also to turn them into our Heavenly bodies. Additionally, during the "second coming" later in Revelation, where Jesus does "touchdown" on Earth explicitly, the "armies of Heaven" could include us saints, following behind Him.

Again, just speculation.

Let me ask you this, Revelation 19:11-19 "11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS.17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.",

do you agree that Jesus will descend from Heaven and will make war with the beast and his followers on Earth?

So if the Matthew 24 verses are Jesus coming back down to Earth as the second coming, in Revelation 19 He comes back down from Heaven to Earth to destroy the beast and his followers, when did Jesus go back up (presuming that Matthew 24 was a future prophecy that occurs after Jesus crucifixtion of course)? So if Matthew 24 is the 2nd coming, is Revelation 19 the 3rd coming. I've never heard of a 3rd coming (and not saying I don't have all the information, I don't think I do), just a 2nd coming.

Again, this could be wrong, but makes me think Matthew 24 isn't the actual 2nd coming, in the strict sense of a touch down on Earth, while Revelation 19 does state that He will explicitly.

*shrug*

"do you agree that Jesus will descend from Heaven and will make war with the beast and his followers on Earth?" <--- I do

All of this is so complicated and divided among Christians. Could be that, IF there is a pre-trib rapture, which means that Jesus IS returning to gather the saved and, those saved people who died before, will already be there as He says : "…14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. 15 By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. <---Why does He say "By no means shall we precede those who have passed from this world? Could it be that they are already with Christ? Does not our spirit go directly to God when we take our last breath?
"The Lord Himself will descend from heaven.… And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thess. 4:16–17). Here we see that the purpose of the dead rising and our being caught up into the sky is not to go away but to meet Jesus as He is returning. He will not be taking us out of the world to stay. He will be lifting us up to participate with Him in His triumphal return."
What is the Rapture?

Paul is comforting the living followers over their loved ones who have passed on, and stating that they too shall see His triumphant return, also shall meet the Lord in the clouds but...I see nothing saying they are going to heaven at that time
" 1 Thessalonians 4 is debatable concerning the rapture and/or the second coming. And boy is it ever debated!
Yikes my mind is reeling, haha!

 

[Bobby Jo]

... " 1 Thessalonians 4 is debatable concerning the rapture and/or the second coming. And boy is it ever debated! ...

I don't get it. What's so difficutl?!?

JESUS WILL RETURN:
1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God.

AFTER THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM, AT THE APPEARANCE OF THE NEW JERUSALEM:
And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.


He was born in S. Cal., and his first job was in Texas, then New Hampshire, and finally New Mexico where he was buried. -- Yep, all in the same year!
So what's the question?!?


Maybe the obvious is too obvious,
Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

I don't get it. What's so difficutl?!?

JESUS WILL RETURN:
1 Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God.

AFTER THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM, AT THE APPEARANCE OF THE NEW JERUSALEM:
And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.


He was born in S. Cal., and his first job was in Texas, then New Hampshire, and finally New Mexico where he was buried. -- Yep, all in the same year!
So what's the question?!?


Maybe the obvious is too obvious,
Bobby Jo

Well, since you are set in cement here, that means you are correct and others who think you are NOT correct, are incorrect. All get their information from The Word so, how can you be SO sure that it is your interpretation is the only correct one?? Again, I will say that I am NOT set in stone here and, will never say that I am concerning this "rapture". We all have the right to our "opinions: as, that is what all of it boils down to anyhow, even with scripture. You see this as oh so simple to understand yet, there is more infighting on the rapture than most other doctrines so...don't sit there saying that "you: are right and all others are wrong. You are entitled to your say, and I am too and, if you do not agree then that is fine. I'm not trying to stuff my understanding down your throat so, please do not tell me how "simple" it all is because it is not.

 

[4Jesus]

"do you agree that Jesus will descend from Heaven and will make war with the beast and his followers on Earth?" <--- I do

All of this is so complicated and divided among Christians. Could be that, IF there is a pre-trib rapture, which means that Jesus IS returning to gather the saved and, those saved people who died before, will already be there as He says : "…14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. 15 By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. <---Why does He say "By no means shall we precede those who have passed from this world? Could it be that they are already with Christ? Does not our spirit go directly to God when we take our last breath?
"The Lord Himself will descend from heaven.… And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thess. 4:16–17). Here we see that the purpose of the dead rising and our being caught up into the sky is not to go away but to meet Jesus as He is returning. He will not be taking us out of the world to stay. He will be lifting us up to participate with Him in His triumphal return."
What is the Rapture?

Paul is comforting the living followers over their loved ones who have passed on, and stating that they too shall see His triumphant return, also shall meet the Lord in the clouds but...I see nothing saying they are going to heaven at that time
" 1 Thessalonians 4 is debatable concerning the rapture and/or the second coming. And boy is it ever debated!
Yikes my mind is reeling, haha!

Here's another curveball (and I'm still going in circles too with this curveball): is Acts 3:1 "To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:" considered the "second coming", after his resurrection? Does that count to God-the-Father and God-the-Son, or not? If His body was in the Earth, but His Spirit ascended, then descended again after the 3 days, couldn't that be "coming in the clouds" too?

Ugh, so many possibilities!!!!

I'll come back to your post after I rethink this all. Thanks again for the curveballs

 

[Bobby Jo]

Well, since you are set in cement here, ...

No, not -set in cement-, just not confused.

... please do not tell me how "simple" it all is because it is not.

There's two passages I'd recommend:

Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things which you have not known.
John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.​

We're to be confident in what GOD provides in HIS Word:

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7, 8 For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.​

... and if that offends you, then it's not me that offends you, but Scripture.


Take for example Rev. 13:18 where GOD calls for wisdom and understanding to calculate the number of the a/c's name, so that we should not be caught unaware. It's a simple exercise which virtually any Christian should be confident in -- with a little guidance if necessary. But here in this form and in christianity in general, -- I haven't found a single person who can explain what is so obvious.

In some sense it's to be expected when the church consists of one person (the HIRELING) doing all the thinking, and everyone in attendance doing NOTHING. How is THAT working for us?!?

Bobby Jo

 

[4Jesus]

Yep, that's what you suggest, -- and NO, nothing will succeed.


The "New Bible Commentary" offers the following:

“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”[1]

Note: According to the dictionary[2] a legion consists of 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers, and 300 to 700 cavalry.​

[1] Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699
[2] Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary - 2nd ed, p. 1035​

So yeah, good luck on validating the TRUTH against some thousand lies, without any warnings as to what the literal Hebrew ACTUALLY SAYS.

Yep, the seventy sevens are 490 -- NOT!!! -- Daniel didn't employ the usual concise Feminine Gender text, but instead chose the unusual inconcise Masculine Gender text. Thus the seventy "sevens" are NOT 490. -- Per Young, Kiel, & Kliefoth:

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[1]


“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[2]

[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, , p. 217
[2] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, , p. 218​

Nope, because I don't think you can get past all their lies without knowing where the snares are laid.

With Regards,
Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo, if you don't mind a quick question to help me dig through all this. Regarding Daniel 9 being the '93 Oslo peace accord, what evidence do you have that suggests the '93 peace deal was the peace deal, and not another one, say the '48 deal that gave Israel its land back (and Palestinian land too)? Couldn't that deal have been considered a "covenant with many"?

 

[Nancy]

No, not -set in cement-, just not confused.


There's two passages I'd recommend:

Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things which you have not known.
John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.​

We're to be confident in what GOD provides in HIS Word:

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all men generously and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7, 8 For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.​

... and if that offends you, then it's not me that offends you, but Scripture.


Take for example Rev. 13:18 where GOD calls for wisdom and understanding to calculate the number of the a/c's name, so that we should not be caught unaware. It's a simple exercise which virtually any Christian should be confident in -- with a little guidance if necessary. But here in this form and in christianity in general, -- I haven't found a single person who can explain what is so obvious.

In some sense it's to be expected when the church consists of one person (the HIRELING) doing all the thinking, and everyone in attendance doing NOTHING. How is THAT working for us?!?

Bobby Jo

Well, since for years now, one of my everyday prayers is to pray for wisdom and understanding. There is nothing more that I desire but His life and to please Him. No, not unstable in all my ways and, there are some awesome scholars out there that do not even agree with these scriptures so, who is correct? I believe God gives us what we can handle at any given moment, like, reading the same verses over and over only to have them become enlightened one day. So, if I'm "confused" with all of this eschatology, you say that I am unstable in all my ways?? I might not be as quick as yourself in understanding this but, I KNOW He will eventually bring me into all Truth. We now see things through a glass darkly, but when all is said and done then we will all see clearly. This is not an area that I have tried to tackle as I do not believe I'm ready for it, although I do read Daniel and Revelation together, to seek and study to show myself approved. Still, how can one person who say's they are being led and brought to Truth through The Holy Spirit differ from another who says the same exact thing yet, do not agree?

 

[Nancy]

Here's another curveball (and I'm still going in circles too with this curveball): is Acts 3:1 "To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:" considered the "second coming", after his resurrection? Does that count to God-the-Father and God-the-Son, or not? If His body was in the Earth, but His Spirit ascended, then descended again after the 3 days, couldn't that be "coming in the clouds" too?

Ugh, so many possibilities!!!!

I'll come back to your post after I rethink this all. Thanks again for the curveballs

Lol...yeah, curve balls is right! But, He never said it would be easy...I think it is because He wants us to seek Him always. You pose a very good question! I think that would make His return like, 3 or even 4 times! Although, I think His descending and ascending after His Resurrection have nothing to do with His 2nd coming to judge the world...just not certain...let me know what you come up with!!!

 

[Bobby Jo]

Bobby Jo, if you don't mind a quick question to help me dig through all this. Regarding Daniel 9 being the '93 Oslo peace accord, what evidence do you have that suggests the '93 peace deal was the peace deal, and not another one, say the '48 deal that gave Israel its land back (and Palestinian land too)? Couldn't that deal have been considered a "covenant with many"?

FIRST -- Start at the beginning:

1a. Daniel 9:2 says "years" (i.e., "cars")
1b. We're TOLD that Daniel 9:24 says literal "weeks" (i.e. "trucks") but it actually says NOT WEEKS (i.e., "vehicles")
1c. Thus we should conclude that there may be ~69 "years" ("69 cars") and a ~70th "week of years" (" ONE truck")

2a. Daniel 9:2 says "perceived (biyn) in the books"
2b. 1 Kings 3 says that GOD queried Solomon what he would ask for, and Solomon said (in his humility) "shama" wisdom, which would be parallel to opening the newspaper and reading the weather forecast.
2c. GOD said HE would give him what he asked for -- such biyn so that no man before him and no man after him shall have such biyn.
2d. So GOD did NOT give Solomon what he verbally responded, but rather what was in Solomon's heart!

3. Young observes that the "going forth of the word" is NOT from a man-king (Cyrus), but rather a WORD directly from GOD.

So the challenge is to find an O.T. Book which has at least 76 Chapters (NOT the 25th Chapter of Jeremiah) which Daniel use to discover where GOD called for the rebuilding of "ancient" Jerusalem.

Note: You might wish to consider the concept provided in the book by J.R. Church, "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms".​

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... how can one person who say's they are being led and brought to Truth through The Holy Spirit differ from another who says the same exact thing yet, do not agree?

Don't you love Pudding? I like the vanilla favor best, but in any case, the proof is ALWAYS in the pudding! So where you have two different assertions, it's a fairly easy thing to query each as to the specifics. For example:

Ronald = 6
Wilson = 6
Reagan = 6
Oh NO, -- Ronald Reagan is the ANTI-CHRIST!! ​

The facts are:

The world's language is not Hebrew, or Greek, or Latin. It's English. So use English to convert the alphabet into numbers where A=6, B=12, etc.
The U.N. WILL be using computers to transact all who have the mark of the beast. The word computer sums to 666.
Every UPC has an embedded 6/6/6.
The binary hand-count for "6" is the two finger "peace sign".
The visual "peace sign" is the circle of the earth with the two arms of the cross broken down.
The "original" was a Jew, and the counterfeit will also be a Jew.
The counterfeit is the most "powerful" Jewish Statesman in the world.
His name sums (A=6, B=12, etc) to 666.​

Or maybe John and Jacqueline Kennedy sums to 666 (as already proposed) and they along with Reagan will be raised from the DEAD. Yeah, not.

Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

Here is a a bit of one of the sites I visit now and then, speaking about the name of Caeser Nero having the number 666:
Revelation 13: 18:
Here is wisdom. Let him who has un- derstanding calculate the number of the beast; for the number is that of a man, & his number is 666. (Rev.13:18)

What the Bible says about:

Signing of
Mideast Peace plan by antichrist
(Daniel 9:27)
7 year TRIBULATION PERIOD
[ Rev. 6:1 - 20:3 ]return of Christ (Rev. 19:11; Acts :11; John 14:3)
3 1/2 years
Mid-7 year point 666 / Abomination of desolation / Mark of the Beast / false prophet in Jerusalem (Dan. 9: 27)
Revelation 13: 18:
Here is wisdom. Let him who has un- derstanding calculate the number of the beast; for the number is that of a man, & his number is 666. (Rev.13:18).
This verse refers to the false prophet, the future man of sin of the End Times. He is also called a "beast" in Rev. 13:11, as he is referred to again in this verse 18.
The "wisdom" required here is not a mathmatical calculation. But, it is a spiritual application. John the Revelator is indicating that "the number" of this future false prophet "is" (means exist- ing in John's own time) already recog- nized as belonging to another "man" altogether.
This is the "understanding" that helps to calculate the profile of this future false prophet. In other words, this End Time false prophet will come in the same type & origin of another "man" who existed in John's own time, & whose number "is" already recognized (by John) as being 666. John knew this to be Nero.

A known fact of past history is that 2000 years ago, during the time of John the Revelator, Caesar Nero was the reigning emperor of the Roman Empire. Nero reigned from 54 - 68 AD. It was also common public knowledge then that Nero's own num- ber was 666, since each letter of the Greek & Hebrew alphabet's had numer- ical equivalents, equalling a person's name.
Therefore, the "wisdom" John used was in his applying of Nero's number to the forthcoming false prophet. This identifies this End Time religious imposter as a magnified extension of the wicked & mur- derous Caesar Nero. "And his (Nero's) number is 666."
This End Time false prophet will be a modern-day "Caesar" or Roman Emperor so to speak although his End Time image & world presence will be solely known on the world's stage as a religious figure. Just like Caesar, he will also be from Rome. Here is this verse's wisdom. (heisnear,com)

Nero Caesar 54-68 AD

Nero Caesar was the first emperor to persecute Christians. He blamed the Christians for the burning of Rome, and used them to light his gardens at night. Christians were covered with tar and pitch, and then set on fire. The Apostle Paul was beheaded in Rome, and Peter is said to be crucified upside down there. The Beast of Revelation probably refers to Nero and his supposed return.

The mark of the beast 666 in Revelation 13:18 is probably the best know Bible Code. This is called gematria meaning "manipulation with numbers". In both Hebrew and Greek as well as other languages, letters of the alphabet were used as numbers. So names had a certain numerical value. "Nero Caesar" transliterated into the Hebrew from the Greek (Neron Kaiser) adds up to exactly 666 in Hebrew. N=50, R=200, W=6, N=50 plus Q=100, S=60, R=200 totals 666. This spelling of Nero Caesar was found in the discovery of an Aramaic document in Wadi Murabba`at (BASOR 170, 65). The Latin form of "Nero Caesar" when transliterated into Hebrew adds up to 616. This most likely explains the textual variant in Revelation 13:18 with the number 616. It should also be noted that the Greek word for "Beast" when transliterated back into Hebrew adds up to 666. Ancient writers referred to Nero as a "beast" (See Philostratus Vit. Apoll. 4.38; Sib. Or. 5.343; 8.157). For more detailed commentary see Word Biblical Commentary: Revelation 6-16 by David E. Aune. See more details about the Book of Revelation.
IBSS - History - Roman

I know it's allot, yet much of it does make sense to me...just need to put it all together. Happy reading

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Nero having the number 666 ...

Yep, all you have to do is spell his name "Neron" to get it to add up.

... Signing of Mideast Peace plan by antichrist (Daniel 9:27) ...

False Doctrine!

... 7 year TRIBULATION PERIOD ...

False Doctrine!

[ Rev. 6:1 - 20:3 ]return of Christ (Rev. 19:11; Acts :11; John 14:3)
3 1/2 years Mid-7 year point 666 / Abomination of desolation / Mark of the Beast / false prophet in Jerusalem (Dan. 9: 27) ...

... this End Time false prophet will come in the same type & origin of another "man" who existed in John's own time, & whose number "is" already recognized (by John) as being 666. John knew this to be Nero. ...

I had no clue that there were so many False Doctrines! This surprises me. I'd better look into each one so that I too can be deceived.

Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

Yep, all you have to do is spell his name "Neron" to get it to add up.


False Doctrine!


False Doctrine!


I had no clue that there were so many False Doctrines! This surprises me. I'd better look into each one so that I too can be deceived.

Whew,
Bobby Jo

Well Bobby Jo,
I guess you have all the answers. Nobody else does as we are ALL deceived. The Pharisees thought they had everything down pat too.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Well Bobby Jo,
I guess you have all the answers. Nobody else does as we are ALL deceived. The Pharisees thought they had everything down pat too.

The NUMBER 666 and the NAME of the BEAST
Without Using GEMATRIA
The NUMBER 666 and NAME of the BEAST Without Using GEMATRIA

Why have I chosen to abandon the popular theory of 'Gematria' for determining the Name/Number of the Scarlet Abyss Beast?

After nearly 2000 years of Church history and MASSIVE traditional failed attempts using the gematria model by both theological scholars and laymen alike is proof enough, to show the number and name of the Beast, even utilizing in the last few years super computers, has little to NO fruits to bear for the 'millions' of man-hours expended.

One of the best alleged results by those who adamantly support the gematria theory (present company once included) is purported to be the name of NERO CAESAR - who by the clear admission of Scriptures themselves, respecting Rev. 17:8-11, reveal that the 8th King had to exist before John's day of his vision, and will futuristically rise from the Abyss over 2000 years later to reign as a King once more. How can Nero Caesar do this? Moreover, this alleged '666' gematria of the name of Nero is also based on a corrupted spelling of the name Nero (NERON). ​

Suit yourself. Perhaps the TRUTH doesn't tickle your ears as well as the deceptions,
Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

The NUMBER 666 and the NAME of the BEAST
Without Using GEMATRIA
The NUMBER 666 and NAME of the BEAST Without Using GEMATRIA

Why have I chosen to abandon the popular theory of 'Gematria' for determining the Name/Number of the Scarlet Abyss Beast?

After nearly 2000 years of Church history and MASSIVE traditional failed attempts using the gematria model by both theological scholars and laymen alike is proof enough, to show the number and name of the Beast, even utilizing in the last few years super computers, has little to NO fruits to bear for the 'millions' of man-hours expended.

One of the best alleged results by those who adamantly support the gematria theory (present company once included) is purported to be the name of NERO CAESAR - who by the clear admission of Scriptures themselves, respecting Rev. 17:8-11, reveal that the 8th King had to exist before John's day of his vision, and will futuristically rise from the Abyss over 2000 years later to reign as a King once more. How can Nero Caesar do this? Moreover, this alleged '666' gematria of the name of Nero is also based on a corrupted spelling of the name Nero (NERON). ​

Suit yourself. Perhaps the TRUTH doesn't tickle your ears as well as the deceptions,
Bobby Jo

"Suit yourself. Perhaps the TRUTH doesn't tickle your ears as well as the deceptions,
Bobby Jo" <---unnecessary.

" Why have I chosen to abandon the popular theory of 'Gematria' for determining the Name/Number of the Scarlet Abyss Beast?"

Well, my first thought went to the fact that Madonna and many other "Hollywood types" are Kabbalistic ".
I was unaware the interp. I gave was deriven from the same. So, now I must needs to look into the site I visit on occasion.
Thank you.

 

[Truth]

Your posts BJ, do not help anyones understanding, they just accuse, denigrate and are generally unpleasant.

Re the calendar; God has decreed 7000 years from the creation of mankind to the completion of His Plan.
This time period is found in the Bible, divided into 2000 years from Adam until Abraham, 2000 years from Abraham until Jesus, 2000 years from Jesus first Advent until His Return, then 1000 years of Jesus as King of the world.
We can fix the year we are in now to God's timeline, by using the known date of the Babylonian conquest of Judah; 586 BC.
Therefore, we are now at year 5989 since Adam. Much must happen during the next 11 years. All as prophesied.

Well ! there are a few Souls out there that have a grasp on the reality! I believe You are One, maybe there are others?
Sorry I have not been entertained by some here, so I left this thread, and moved on. I have studied the Feasts Of THE LORD, they are His Feasts, and they are established by His Calendar, which is within the Scriptures!
Be Blessed in the Name of Yeshua.

 

[Bobby Jo]

<---unnecessary.

Entirely appropriate. One person has one method for one aspect, and even it doesn't work. A second person has a method which works for TWO aspects (DON'T CHANGE THE METHOD), plus additional aspects which validate. YOU defend the first person and assail the SECOND person.

Necessary ...
Bobby Jo