Prove the Trinity wrong challenge.

[Taken]

Trinity as defined by the Ecumenical Creeds, or the creed I posted in the trinity error challenge.

Well that's the thing Dave, Men define things, add to it, subtract from it how they choose to.

If the skip all the man-made gobbledygook
And go to the source, I don't waste my time and sure enough have Gods Word on the matter.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Well that's the thing Dave, Men define things, add to it, subtract from it how they choose to.

If the skip all the man-made gobbledygook
And go to the source, I don't waste my time and sure enough have Gods Word on the matter.

Glory to God,
Taken

Are we a bunch of hicks that shun book learnin' because people write them?

 

[Taken]

Are we a bunch of hicks that shun book learnin' because people write them?

Don't know about you Dave, But I decide what I want to Read!

Men write books about pornography and explicit sex too...
Are you a hick if you shun those books?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Are we a bunch of hicks that shun book learnin' because people write them?

no Dave, we are big kids raised on santa claus and the easter bunny who all got literally circumcised, just like you ok

 

[justbyfaith]

ah, didn't get a tag for this, sorry. With All Due Respect

Thank you, I was wondering for quite some time.

 

[bbyrd009]

Thank you, I was wondering for quite some time.

if you are in Chrome you can just highlight/Rclick/search and google will tell you stuff like that. In another browser you can still do that manually

 

[justbyfaith]

We need some clarity here: Is Jesus the Father, and is the Holy Spirit also the Father? Not possible.

This is not even an option, and I believe you would agree. So why don't we simplify everything:

Is the Father uncreated God? Agree? Disagree?
Is the Son uncreated God? Agree? Disagree?
Is the Holy Spirit uncreated God? Agree? Disagree?
And even so, is there only one God -- the Godhead? Agree? Disagree?

If we are in agreement on all three points, then that should be the position of all Bible-believing Christians.

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), that is, the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3). The Lord is that Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17). What Spirit? The one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:23-24, John 7:39, Colossians 1:27) that dwells within each of us (Ephesians 4:6, Colossians 1:27, 2 Timothy 1:14). The same is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6). These are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6). One Person who is God (Deuteronomy 6:4); who is one Lord (Mark 12:29 (kjv)).

Yes, the Father is uncreated God. The Son is uncreated God in His Deity, but not in His humanity (Romans 1:3, Isaiah 45:11). The Spirit is also uncreated God, indeed. And these are one God--the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

begotten of the Father in eternity,

Begotten of the Father in the virgin birth, through the Father descending and taking on the nature of human flesh (Luke 1:35). He ascended back to be outside of time and Omnipresent after accomplishing His purpose of dying on the Cross (Ephesians 4:10); while still continuing in a body of human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7); very likely by exuding the presence of His Spirit from his human body so that He became Omnipresent in Spirit while remaining finite in a human body.

First of all, we need to be clear that we are discussing the Mystery of God. So how is it that the Father is the Head (or Authority) over the Son (Christ)? (1 Cor 11:3) ["God" generally means "the Father"]

We see from Scripture that there is a hierarchy within the Godhead with the Father as the ultimate Authority, who has delegated to the Son all power in Heaven and on earth, and made Him both Savior and Judge over all mankind. And because there is perfect love and harmony within the Godhead, there will come a time when the Son will hand back everything to the Father. This in no way diminishes the perfect deity of Christ or the Holy Spirit (who primarily directs men to Christ).

My answer is in the following post by me that I think you were responding to there:

Also, there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).

So then, how will the Son be subject to the Father, since they are the same Lord (1 Corinthians 12:5, 2 Corinthians 8:19)?

The Father is infinite and Omnipresent, outside of time, dwelling in eternity (Isaiah 57:15); while He descended to become the Son, after having lived that one eternal moment (Ephesians 3:11): and He became finite in His humanity in that He took on the nature of humanity. Now the Person that He left behind still dwells in eternity: God cannot vacate eternity in order to descend and become the Son: because if He dwells in eternity He cannot cease to exist from that perspective. I hold this to be a kind of first truth, that we simply know to be true instinctively. So the Person whom God the Father became will be subject to that Person who dwells outside of time once all is said and done. The original Person of God the Father will always continue to be the Lord, is what I believe this is saying.

********

How do you recognize the true God. By rejecting the trinity? the only doctrine unique to Christianity? Or by agreeing with Islam, Judaism, virtually every cult on the face of the earth?

I actually agree with the Trinity, with more of an emphasis on the Oneness of the Lord, since a part of my ministry is to expose the heresy of Tritheism.

 

[Dave L]

no Dave, we are big kids raised on santa claus and the easter bunny who all got literally circumcised, just like you ok

Never believed in any of these. Not for a second.

 

[amadeus]

Pssst............the Church is over here, the ones that are unified in the truth.

Yes, my friend you or I may know "where" the Church is and others also may know. Surprisingly there are many who really do not have a clue although they will quickly tell give you an answer regarding its whereabouts. The Truth of course is Jesus whoever he is.

 

[brakelite]

brakelite,

Some of the creeds are excellent summaries of essential biblical teaching.

Don't you believe in God's gift of teachers who have been involved in formulating the doctrines of the creeds? See 1 Cor 12:28; Eph 4:11; Rom 12:7)?

To discard the creeds is to reject God's gift of teachers.

Oz

I happily accept any writing, book, summary, teaching, pamphlet, tract, commentary that helps us to understand scripture, that encourages, and promotes scripture as the benchmark for faith and practice... Even the spirits, be they holy or otherwise, must be tested by scripture. And the scripture itself is to compared with scripture.
The creeds themselves however throughout history have been used as the judge and arbiter of faith and practice, and thousands, perhaps millions, have suffered and died because they disagreed not with scripture, but with the creed. The creeds have been exalted above scripture.

 

[brakelite]

also removes Christ as High Priest i guess, can't be both

Yes. There is one God. There is one mediator between man and God: the man, Christ Jesus. 1 Tim2:5 And that was written after the Ascension.

 

[Taken]

I happily accept any writing, book, summary, teaching, pamphlet, tract, commentary that helps us to understand scripture,

This part, is not the same for me.

Scripture says, God gives a man His Understanding of Scriptures.

that encourages, and promotes scripture as the benchmark for faith and practice... Even the spirits, be they holy or otherwise, must be tested by scripture. And the scripture itself is to compared with scripture.
The creeds themselves however throughout history have been used as the judge and arbiter of faith and practice, and thousands, perhaps millions, have suffered and died because they disagreed not with scripture, but with the creed. The creeds have been exalted above scripture.

This I agree with.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[CoreIssue]

Genesis 18 New International Version (NIV)
The Three Visitors
18 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord,a]">[a] do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”

“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”


The lord, singular, appeared to Abraham as three men. Abraham called them lord, singular. All three responded to him.

That is the Trinity.

 

[Taken]

Yes. There is one God. There is one mediator between man and God: the man, Christ Jesus. 1 Tim2:5 And that was written after the Ascension.

When a spirit, (created angels included) and the Spirit of God, desires to intermingle with men on Earth, they APPEAR in the fashion AS a man, so Earthly men can SEE Them.
Several scriptures...If you require.

God prepared a BODY, for when He would come into the World.
Heb 10:5

God in Heaven declared He would be "a" Father, to "himself" when He would come into the world.
Heb 1:5

God in Heaven declared He who would come into the world would be "a" Son to "himself".
Heb 1:5

God in Heaven declared He purposed IN HIMSELF the mystery of Himself.
Eph 1:9

Jesus came to Earth, AS A MAN, A SERVANT, As A FAITHFUL Servant....
Phil 2:7. 2:8

Jesus TOOK upon Himself this FORM (body) prepared of God.
Phil 2:7

(Odd how men do not CONCLUDE, there was "something" Beneath that Bodily FORM Jesus took upon Himself.....just saying).

He was SEEN in the Fashion AS A MAN,
Phil 2:8
CALLED a MAN....and talked, walked, mingled, taught men of the Earth.

THAT is how Earthly men were "supposed" to SEE Him, and HOW, they "FIRST" knew Him.
2 Cor 5:16

Little by little, Jesus' REPUTATION was being revealed to men on the EARTH.

What reputation? The reputation He did not come to Earth "with".

What reputation? That He IS THE CHRIST!

"What" IS THEE Christ?
Christ IS THEE POWER of God.
1 Cor 1:24

Every miracle, healing, wonders, Jesus performs is REVEALING His "reputation"...
The POWER, of God.

Men who followed Jesus, heard, learned, saw, believed, KNEW Him first, AS A MAN....
And THEN, no longer KNEW HIM AS A MAN, but KNEW He IS THE CHRIST, THE Power of God, God with Them.
2 Cor 5:16

Men who "BELIEVE" Jesus is thee Christ, simply because Scripture says so.....MISS the BIG PICTURE.

THAT information CAN ONLY TRULY BE "KNOWN" in a mans Heart.....WHEN thee Lord God Almighty Himself "gives" that man His own Understanding.
THAT ^ is the crucial teaching in:
Matt 16:17

Men carry on and on about Jesus the man, and more ridiculously...Jesus the "human" man....When a man WHO has become Converted....should no longer believe in the man....but KNOW they KNOW;
Thee Lord God Almighty.

We are to learn and KNOW and ACKNOWLEDGE we KNOW......The mystery that was Kept Hid IN GOD, then Revealed BY God...

The Mystery OF God, OF the Father, and OF Christ.
Col 2:2.

(A typo, to speak OF all three?). Nah!

A man WHO has GONE TO and THROUGH "Jesus"....has met THEE Lord God Almighty.

An Earthly man WHO goes To and Through Jesus, (the man).....remember....the Earthly man IS a SINNER...estranged from God...The SINNER MAN, is TOO corrupt to HAVE Direct Contact with God....JESUS the man, IS the "buffer"....ADVOCATE...

And ONCE an earthly man CROSSES that threshold....the DOOR...accepts the Conversion.....He is forever IN and WITH the whole of God. Thee Lord God Almighty.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[jaybird]

Just saying, Christianity is the only religion believing in God according to the trinity doctrine. All other religions reject the Trinity.

didnt the Canaanites and Babylonians, the ones the Most High said dont be like, have trinities.

 

[jaybird]

Genesis 18 New International Version (NIV)
The Three Visitors
18 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord,a]">[a] do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”

“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”


The lord, singular, appeared to Abraham as three men. Abraham called them lord, singular. All three responded to him.

That is the Trinity.

didnt two of these men go down to Sodom where they are identified as angels.

 

[Enoch111]

didnt the Canaanites and Babylonians, the ones the Most High said dont be like, have trinities.

Yes, the counterfeiters always try to imitate the true. That is a part of Satanic deception. Just like the Mother and Child theme in every false religion.

 

[jaybird]

Yes, the counterfeiters always try to imitate the true. That is a part of Satanic deception. Just like the Mother and Child theme in every false religion.

sounds the same to me as well as most orthodox Jews.

 

[brakelite]

Someone wrote to the editor of one of our church magazines in the late 1800s. I think his reply is the closest I can find to my current understanding of the Godhead. Sadly, my church no longer subscribes to that view which did represent the majority view of our church pioneers. Today they have accepted the Trinity although somewhat modified from the version given in the creeds. Here is what the editor said to the question, what is your view of the Trinity.
“If I knew what you meant by the term, I might tell you; but from the days of Athanasius until now all discussion about the Trinity has been an attempt to define the indefinable and the incomprehensible. Thousands have been put to death for not professing belief in a formula which even its professors could not comprehend, nor state in terms that anybody else could comprehend.”
“The Scriptures reveal "One God and Father of all," our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the brightness of the Father's glory, and "the eternal Spirit" through whom Christ offered Himself and was raised from the dead; but we do not profess any knowledge of them beyond what the Scriptures give us. In teaching and preaching the Gospel we always confine ourselves strictly to Scripture terms and language; those who manufacture terms must be looked to for definitions of them.” He concluded “It is safest not to presume to define what the Bible has not defined, nor to attempt to explain infinite"

To quote pastor Terry Hill.

In our discussions regarding the Godhead, the one thing we need to remember is that there cannot be found in Scripture any explanation of how the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have their existence together. This is why we should be very guarded not to make any attempt to explain it - even though each of the three divine personalities of the Godhead can properly be termed ‘God’. In other words, although it may appear evident – also only common sense - to say that all three share a certain unity of being, nowhere in the Scriptures is this explained. This is why any conclusions that are drawn concerning this matter, even though they may be said to be based upon what the Scriptures reveal, will only be speculation. Putting this in another way – any explanation given regarding the ontological relationship (the nature of being) that exists between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will always need to be assumed. This is why the trinity doctrine - the teaching that says all three divine personalities exist inseparably together in one substance as the ‘one immortal God’ - is only an assumed doctrine. This is why discussion regarding this issue will often end in difference of opinion and division. It is simply that ‘things not revealed’ are being debated.

 

[bbyrd009]

Never believed in any of these. Not for a second.

you changed the subject again Dave, #1, and #2 i don't believe you wadr
i am relatively certain you are circumcised, and i would be willing to bet that if you have any sons they are too