Psalm 110 disproves a literal thousand years.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

FaithWillDo

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2023
1,290
182
63
63
Fort Collins, CO, USA
www.greatmysteryofchrist.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Daniel 9:26
...the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dear Covenantee,

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

This verse is difficult to understand if you don't have a full understanding of the pathway to salvation that the Elect will travel. I'll try to explain below.

The verse is teaching about the spiritual conversion of the Elect under the New Covenant (after the Messiah is cut off).

First, let's identify and define the key terms:

- The "people of the Prince" (Anointed One) are the Elect (spiritual Jews).

- The "flood" represents judgment, as in the Thousand Years Reign as shown in Rev 19.

- The "city" is Old Jerusalem which represents the "worse than the first" carnality of a fallen away believer (Man of Sin).

- The "sanctuary" is the Old Temple which represents a fallen away believer who "practices lawlessness" (Mat 7:23). In other words, the believer (Man of Sin) approaches Christ by their own "works" as the Old Covenant of Law requires. It is the Old Temple (Man of Sin) that will be destroyed. It is not talking about the literal physical temple.

- The "end of the war" represents the moment of conversion. The war occurs within a believer between the Holy Spirit and the believer's carnality. The believer's carnality is worsened when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells them. The war ends when Christ gives the fallen away believer the Latter Rain and judgment.

- The "desolations are determined" represents when the spirit of anti-Christ enters the Elect believer and causes them to fall away. This event is called the Abomination of Desolation and is mentioned by Christ in Mat 24:15.

The pathway to salvation for an Elect believer begins when Christ comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Because the Early Rain is a "small amount", the believer is left spiritually blind and carnal. Satan takes advantage of the believer's weaknesses and deceives them via the spirit of anti-Christ. This causes the Abomination of Desolation within the believer. This causes the believer to spiritually die and become "worse than the first; a Man of Sin. They will remain in this lost condition until Christ comes to them a "second time" and pours out the Latter Rain and judgment. This judgment is called the Thousand Years Reign and is when Christ and the newly born again child of God judges their own worsened carnality. After the new child of God has destroyed the Old Jerusalem and the Old Temple, they are converted and saved.

What I have briefly explained above is what all end-time prophecy (including the book of Revelation) teaches.

I will be travelling for the next few days so this is going to be my last post until I return home. I do have a website (shown below my member name) which teaches the pathway to salvation in detail if you have an interest in learning more.

Joe
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
5,509
2,292
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Dear Covenantee,

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

This verse is difficult to understand if you don't have a full understanding of the pathway to salvation that the Elect will travel. I'll try to explain below.

The verse is teaching about the spiritual conversion of the Elect under the New Covenant (after the Messiah is cut off).

First, let's identify and define the key terms:

- The "people of the Prince" (Anointed One) are the Elect (spiritual Jews).

- The "flood" represents judgment, as in the Thousand Years Reign as shown in Rev 19.

- The "city" is Old Jerusalem which represents the "worse than the first" carnality of a fallen away believer (Man of Sin).

- The "sanctuary" is the Old Temple which represents a fallen away believer who "practices lawlessness" (Mat 7:23). In other words, the believer (Man of Sin) approaches Christ by their own "works" as the Old Covenant of Law requires. It is the Old Temple (Man of Sin) that will be destroyed. It is not talking about the literal physical temple.

- The "end of the war" represents the moment of conversion. The war occurs within a believer between the Holy Spirit and the believer's carnality. The believer's carnality is worsened when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells them. The war ends when Christ gives the fallen away believer the Latter Rain and judgment.

- The "desolations are determined" represents when the spirit of anti-Christ enters the Elect believer and causes them to fall away. This event is called the Abomination of Desolation and is mentioned by Christ in Mat 24:15.

The pathway to salvation for an Elect believer begins when Christ comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. Because the Early Rain is a "small amount", the believer is left spiritually blind and carnal. Satan takes advantage of the believer's weaknesses and deceives them via the spirit of anti-Christ. This causes the Abomination of Desolation within the believer. This causes the believer to spiritually die and become "worse than the first; a Man of Sin. They will remain in this lost condition until Christ comes to them a "second time" and pours out the Latter Rain and judgment. This judgment is called the Thousand Years Reign and is when Christ and the newly born again child of God judges their own worsened carnality. After the new child of God has destroyed the Old Jerusalem and the Old Temple, they are converted and saved.

What I have briefly explained above is what all end-time prophecy (including the book of Revelation) teaches.

I will be travelling for the next few days so this is going to be my last post until I return home. I do have a website (shown below my member name) which teaches the pathway to salvation in detail if you have an interest in learning more.

Joe
Bro. FaithWillDo,

It's not at all difficult for the student of Scriptural history.

Scripture certainly does describe the spiritual requisites and results of salvation in numerous places throughout.

However, Daniel 9:26 et al describe literal physical verifiable historical events of judgment and destruction visited by God upon the nation which had rejected His Son, and which concurrently signaled the end of all vestiges of the old covenant, and confirmed the spiritual establishment and reign of the New Covenant and Kingdom, which were accomplished at Calvary.

This is the united understanding of a clear majority of recognized historical Bible expositors.

Thus are described momentous physical events heralding, affirming, and confirming, momentous spiritual events; in the history of God's dealings with mankind.

The physical and the spiritual are inextricably interwoven and intertwined in Daniel 9:26.

Here is the pathway to salvation:

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Zao is life

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
13,883
4,088
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes a literal 1000 years I believe in a symbolic 1000 years
There is no warrant to conclude it is 1000 years. No figures of speech, no metaphorical construct, no comparative terms.

But let me ask you a question. When cults like the JW's say Jesus resurrection is only symbolic, how can you defend against that?
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,568
1,004
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
There is no warrant to conclude it is 1000 years. No figures of speech, no metaphorical construct, no comparative terms.

But let me ask you a question. When cults like the JW's say Jesus resurrection is only symbolic, how can you defend against that?
Sorry but I'm not to sure what you mean when you say "There is no warrant to conclude it is 1000 years"

I would defend by saying that the bible states that Jesus physically resurrected the tomb was empty, He could eat and Thomas put his finger in His wounds
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,659
1,361
113
Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Psalm 110 Of David.
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
".. for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet. The last enemy made to cease is death."
1 Cor.15:25-26

7 And when the thousand years have expired,

14 death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20

-- For You have made him a little lower than 'elohiym, and have crowned him with glory and honor. You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet -- Ps.8:5-6

-- But now we see not yet all things having been put under him. -- Hebrews 2:8​
 
Last edited:

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
13,883
4,088
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry but I'm not to sure what you mean when you say "There is no warrant to conclude it is 1000 years"

I would defend by saying that the bible states that Jesus physically resurrected the tomb was empty, He could eat and Thomas put his finger in His wounds
Well how do you say the Watchtower is wrong when thye say He made bodies to prove He resurrected.

YOu say the 1000 years is symbolic. what shows you in the text that it is symbolic and not to be taken literally.

The word warrant simply means valid reason.
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
9,377
622
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I never said that there is no 1000 years.
Of course, its a contradiction. I believe in the millennium just not a literal one.
Were the last thousand years figurative?

Is time only figurative until you look back and say, Where has the time gone?"

Perhaps all those who deny the Day of the Lord will finally understand after that thousand years is over?

If the Millennium is not literal, then there is no Millennium except in your head.

Revelation 20 proves a Millennium is literal.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,568
1,004
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Were the last thousand years figurative?

Is time only figurative until you look back and say, Where has the time gone?"

Perhaps all those who deny the Day of the Lord will finally understand after that thousand years is over?

If the Millennium is not literal, then there is no Millennium except in your head.

Revelation 20 proves a Millennium is literal.
Not true there can be a symbolic Millennium just like God own the cattle on a thousand hill is symbolic for all of the hills in the world.

If Revelation chapter 20 is literal then why does it not mention what most christians believe?

Jesus on the earth

Jesus reigning on the earth

Peace on the earth

The saints reigning on the earth

Only satan bound not satan and his fallen angles bound

Jesus in Jerusalem

A temple on the earth

Sacrifices at the temple

The thousand year binding ending at the same time as the thousand year reigning.

Jesus in Jerusalem when satans gatherers his armies for his last assault on Gods people.

If Jesus isn't on the earth in Jerusalem at that time why would that chapter mention Jesus ascending back up to heaven

If these events are all supposed to be true and Revelation chapter 20 the main chapter in the bible about the Millennium then why are they not mentioned in that chapter?
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,568
1,004
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Well how do you say the Watchtower is wrong when thye say He made bodies to prove He resurrected.

YOu say the 1000 years is symbolic. what shows you in the text that it is symbolic and not to be taken literally.

The word warrant simply means valid reason.

Yes thanks but I do I know what the word warrant means.

I would say that the watch tower is wrong because its not in the scriptures.

See post #30
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
9,377
622
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not true there can be a symbolic Millennium just like God own the cattle on a thousand hill is symbolic for all of the hills in the world.

If Revelation chapter 20 is literal then why does it not mention what most christians believe?

Jesus on the earth

Jesus reigning on the earth

Peace on the earth

The saints reigning on the earth

Only satan bound not satan and his fallen angles bound

Jesus in Jerusalem

A temple on the earth

Sacrifices at the temple

The thousand year binding ending at the same time as the thousand year reigning.

Jesus in Jerusalem when satans gatherers his armies for his last assault on Gods people.

If Jesus isn't on the earth in Jerusalem at that time why would that chapter mention Jesus ascending back up to heaven

If these events are all supposed to be true and Revelation chapter 20 the main chapter in the bible about the Millennium then why are they not mentioned in that chapter?
For the same reason Revelation 20 does not spell out every year of the last 1994 years.

You cannot have it both ways. Revelation is about Judgment and the revealing of Christ. It is not a detailed description of the good times. Besides, John places Jesus on earth because that is where the camp of the saints is that is near the city Jesus reigns from.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,568
1,004
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
For the same reason Revelation 20 does not spell out every year of the last 1994 years.

You cannot have it both ways. Revelation is about Judgment and the revealing of Christ. It is not a detailed description of the good times. Besides, John places Jesus on earth because that is where the camp of the saints is that is near the city Jesus reigns from.
Except John doesn’t please Jesus or the reigning on the earth do you see how odd that is?

Premils hang their hat on revelation chapter 20 but all of those events I posted in post #30 aren’t in it

If anyone including yourself only ever read revelation chapter 20 in the entire bible they wouldn’t understand why anyone would place Jesus reigning on the earth. Think about that for a minute it makes no sense and is one of the biggest reasons I don’t believe it.
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
9,377
622
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Except John doesn’t please Jesus or the reigning on the earth do you see how odd that is?

Premils hang their hat on revelation chapter 20 but all of those events I posted in post #30 aren’t in it

If anyone including yourself only ever read revelation chapter 20 in the entire bible they wouldn’t understand why anyone would place Jesus reigning on the earth. Think about that for a minute it makes no sense and is one of the biggest reasons I don’t believe it.
Why would I base my position on your mere questions to begin with? What single chapter in the Bible answers all those questions? Do you base your whole eschatology on one chapter?

Which planet does Revelation 20 take place on?
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,568
1,004
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Why would I base my position on your mere questions to begin with? What single chapter in the Bible answers all those questions? Do you base your whole eschatology on one chapter?

Which planet does Revelation 20 take place on?
I’m not saying all of the events it’s actually not one of those events are in that chapter
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
9,377
622
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I’m not saying all of the events it’s actually not one of those events are in that chapter
Events you made up?

The chapter is a time frame between the Second Coming and the NHNE. Why does it have to list every day life how you think it should turn out?

There won't even be any Christians living on earth during the whole time. This is the Day of the Lord, not the Day of Humankind.

Jesus is declared King of the entire earth at the 7th Trumpet. It seems strange that you would deny a King to physically be on the earth, after instated as King. The only 2 things really mentioned are:

Satan will not have any access to earth period. No sending out demonic influences at all.

There will be people at the start who will never die the entire 1,000 years. They will live in the same place and never move or loose their position as reigning with King Jesus.

These two things are mentioned, and yet you refuse to even acknowledge what is mentioned. Then you make up your own list of requirements to prove they are not found in the chapter?

Then you dictate to God where you want Him to place the Day of the Lord.

Since the first century Jesus has been the Christ. His followers are called Christians. After the Second Coming, Jesus will be King. So what do you call people who follow a King? There is no longer a need to be saved after the Second Coming. However there is a need to obey that King and reign with that King. And there is no verse in Revelation 20 that states the King leaves the earth and returns at a later point in time. So you cannot force that into the chapter any more than you accusing me of forcing your list of demands into the chapter.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,315
1,287
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Except John doesn’t please Jesus or the reigning on the earth do you see how odd that is?

More odd because John does place it on the Earth, over mortals of the nations after the second coming.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,568
1,004
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
More odd because John does place it on the Earth, over mortals of the nations after the second coming.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Right "He has MADE US unto or God kings and priest" Thus we already are reigning on the earth as kings and priest.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,315
1,287
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Right "He has MADE US unto or God kings and priest" Thus we already are reigning on the earth as kings and priest.


No, "shall reign" is called future tense.