Purgatory True of False

[Mungo]

Oh well, I'm glad you do but puzzled as to why, if you believe Jesus paid the ransom for all our sin, you would even believe in a place for those who are 'imperfectly purified'. We are purified by the blood of Jesus - not everybody but all those who turn their lives over to him.

Try producing some evidence for your claims Pearl.
There is a maxim - that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence,

 

[Mungo]

Jesus was illegally "tried" by the Sanhedrin for being apostate, a blasphemer.
And the Jews that followed Jesus were indeed considered apostate by the Sanhedrin, because the elders dudnt recognize Jesus as Messiah .
Which is why Saul, a Pharisee, sought them out.
Stephen was stoned for apostasy and blasphemy.

You should study.

But if, according to you, Jesus was an apostate, then what is the problem with trying him for apostasy. Or was he apostate from the Jewish apostates? You make life complicated.

 

[Pearl]

Try producing some evidence for your claims Pearl.
There is a maxim - that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence,

What evidence do you need @Mungo? These are not just my claims; you have already said you agree with me on the very basics that are at the heart of Christianity. I am a simple lady who doesn't need or want to get into arguments. You want to believe in the unscriptural concept of purgatory then you are free to do so, but I won't.

 

[Pearl]

But if, according to you, Jesus was an apostate, then what is the problem with trying him for apostasy. Or was he apostate from the Jewish apostates? You make life complicated.

he didn't say Jesus was an apostate he said he was 'tried' for being one. There's a difference.

 

[Mungo]

he didn't say Jesus was an apostate he said he was 'tried' for being one. There's a difference.

You haven't followed the whole conversation.
Further back he suggests the Jews were pagans, then he suggests the Jews were apostates.
He makes no sense.

 

[Mungo]

What evidence do you need @Mungo? These are not just my claims; you have already said you agree with me on the very basics that are at the heart of Christianity. I am a simple lady who doesn't need or want to get into arguments. You want to believe in the unscriptural concept of purgatory then you are free to do so, but I won't.

I'm referring to post#75 & #80.
You just state things. You may believe them but what is the basis of that belief. I mean specific biblical basis.

As to the unscriptural concept of Purgatory I have posted the scriptural evidence in my thread Purgatory - A Catholic's Understanding.

 

[Enoch111]

Purgatory - A Catholic's Understanding

That should be "A Catholic's Misunderstanding". Every verse used by the CC to justify Purgatory is actually a misapplication of Scripture. And the Church Fathers are primarily responsible for this. The bottom line is this: "Did the Lord Jesus Christ ever speak about Purgatory, or did He simply talk about Sheol/Hades and Gehenna?"

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Jesus was illegally "tried" by the Sanhedrin for being apostate, a blasphemer.
And the Jews that followed Jesus were indeed considered apostate by the Sanhedrin, because the elders dudnt recognize Jesus as Messiah .
Which is why Saul, a Pharisee, sought them out.
Stephen was stoned for apostasy and blasphemy.

You should study.

Jesus and Stephen were murdered because they told the Truth in fact, and exposed them as the Mob in the Vineyard story.
Then Saul understood and became Paul.

 

[ScottA]

The idea of Purgatory dates back to the writings of Plato and Heraclides Ponticus both pagans. How did this pagan creation get into the Roman Catholic doctrine?

It is not just the Catholics. One could even implicate God, for it is he who created time...which is the problem and the confusion.

So then, yes, the Catholics made a religious doctrine out of what God had meant merely for the incremental revelation of all truth--to children (his children). Just as we break complex truth down for our own children over time, God has done the same for us. Which simply makes it that much harder to understand the things that are not included in the time-based revelations. In other words, Purgatory is not the correct answer to the confusion of things marked by incremental time, but rather it shows those entertaining the idea of Purgatory as having asked the wrong question. Rather than attempting to understand things from the timeless and eternal perspective of God, they have instead attempted to explain it through the lens of their own [childish] perspective...which actually doesn't even exist: Time is a God-made illusion.

Thus, there exists no time between time and eternity, i.e., Purgatory.

 

[FHII]

i believe there was a form of purgatory, and it has to do with the account of Lazerus and Abraham. All the OT saints were in this "purgatory" but were set free by Jesus when he descended to the lower parts of the earth. They were comforted, unlike the wicked who we in another chamber... But any purgatory for them was done away with by Christ.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Oh well, I'm glad you do but puzzled as to why, if you believe Jesus paid the ransom for all our sin, you would even believe in a place for those who are 'imperfectly purified'. We are purified by the blood of Jesus - not everybody but all those who turn their lives over to him.

Does Jesus say that he is ransom for our sin ?
What about Sin ?
Just because one believes in Jesus that does not save one, the Devil him self talked to Jesus, so he seen him and must believe of Jesus, but the Devil wants to be your Lord. because he does not want you to have Salvation.

Now who is Saved ? one is not Saved because you believe Jesus, you must abide in the Vine that is Salvation and then he becomes your Lord.

Jesus did not sell Salvation as many Protestants push, he offered it freely, only one has to pick it up and abide in the vine, becoming his body and Jesus as the head of the Body.

Many claim that their sins are wiped clean regardless, no they are not because if you are a slave to Sin you are not Saved. that's why Bible says you must be born again. that means you become worthy of abiding in Jesus Christ. One is not a dominated by sin, because you understand it's workings, but before such one was still a slave to Sin.

I can not remember ever not to of believed in Jesus, I tried to seek him diligently, but it was not until I was 33yo that I was born again. Now I did not do that, He did ! Big difference.
Bible points out Oh you of little faith ? so their you go ! faith does not cut it, remember the milk one could only consume and then remember about the Faith that can move mountains ? well that's of solid food. solid conviction as Christ is right with you.

Devils love to pull out the little faith card saved all. I know many people who come from the little faith crowd over the years in the Church but guess what say 90% of them do not believe in Christ Jesus anymore. were they saved ? no the parable of the sower ? the weeds grew up and strangled them.

Jesus pointed out that This world is full of deceptions, so one must come out from such and enter into the Kingdom of God. then you are sent back into this world as a Saint to take on the Wolves.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Jesus and Stephen were murdered because they told the Truth in fact, and exposed them as the Mob in the Vineyard story.
Then Saul understood and became Paul.

Saul only understood after the encounter with the light on the Damascus road. Three different accounts of that story in, if I recall, the Book of Luke.

Jesus was murdered for blasphemy. Stephen for blasphemy and being apostate. The Jews responsible for this assumed the curse for all time when they said, let his blood (Jesus') be on our heads and those of our children.

Today they'll say this is antisemitic. They killed what we know to be God in flesh. To them he was a blasphemer. Because when Messiah appeared the Sanhedrin, Pharisees, and elders would lose their power over the people. Vipers would be put in their place!
They couldn't have that!

Truth isn't antisemitic. And they asked for the curse. It's only right it be applied as asked.

 

[Mungo]

That should be "A Catholic's Misunderstanding". Every verse used by the CC to justify Purgatory is actually a misapplication of Scripture. And the Church Fathers are primarily responsible for this. The bottom line is this: "Did the Lord Jesus Christ ever speak about Purgatory, or did He simply talk about Sheol/Hades and Gehenna?"

@Pearl asked for scripture to support the concept of Purgatory.
I started a new thread with 33 scripture quotes and references to other others.
Can you show me how they are a misapplication of scripture?

 

[Mungo]

i believe there was a form of purgatory, and it has to do with the account of Lazerus and Abraham. All the OT saints were in this "purgatory" but were set free by Jesus when he descended to the lower parts of the earth. They were comforted, unlike the wicked who we in another chamber... But any purgatory for them was done away with by Christ.

See my thread "Purgatory - a Catholic's Understanding" and show me where the scriptures I posted don't support the concept of Purgatory.

 

[reformed1689]

Seems that it means something more to you when Jesus said it was finished compared those who believe in purgatory.

Also, I am convinced there is a misplaced comma of what Jesus said to the thief in the cross.

I tell you today, I will see you in paradise.

A misplaced comma in the original Greek? hahahahahahahaha oh boy...

 

[reformed1689]

Well, Jesus is on record with saying it. So, the WHY is secondary.

But to answer your question, this is how language is used. “Today” or ‘now’ is used for emphasis.

My grandmothers twin sister was fond of telling a childhood incident. Their mother could’ve said. “Tell her to come home.”

The emphasis was added TELL HER TO COME HOME RIGHT NOW.

The problem with your take - that is a bigger stretch - is that it contradicts Scripture that says Jesus was in the ground for 3 days and 3 nights before being resurrected.

nowhere does Scripture say partying up with the thief on the cross in the days in between.

You are using your modern English lens, time to start looking at biblical languages which were not modern English.

 

[reformed1689]

I’m already successful with what I’ve already explained. So, there is no need to try again. Thanks though.

Actually you have just been successful in showing sheer ignorance.

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl asked for scripture to support the concept of Purgatory.
I started a new thread with 33 scripture quotes and references to other others.
Can you show me how they are a misapplication of scripture?

I'm not even going to look at that because I don't believe in purgatory and I believe that Jesus has paid the full price and I, as are all true Christians will not need any further purification. To suggest that that is necessary is to belittle the sacrifice Jesus already made to cleanse us of Sin.
I don't come on this sight to argue but to encourage and be encouraged and inspired. I know you are a fellow Brit but you are a Catholic and have you deep seated views which are different from mine. So with that in mind I will put you on my ignore list. Bye and God bless.

 

[Wrangler]

A misplaced comma in the original Greek? hahahahahahahaha oh boy...

Perhaps you are unaware that grammar is not in the original text? hahahahahahahaha oh boy...

 

[Wrangler]

You are using your modern English lens, time to start looking at biblical languages which were not modern English.

I'm quite confidant that when I read the Word of God, his Spirit guides me in correct understanding and there is no need to defer to those with an agenda on how to interpret His Word. Thanks though!