Question: Why not believe in Christ's millennial reign on earth?

[robert derrick]

This is an honest question, I would like to hear any answers to.

Aside from the Scriptural argument itself, which can go one way or the other.

Why is there sometimes such zeal to not believe in Jesus' millennial reign, with His resurrected saints on this earth?

It's not like it has an effect on Christian living at this time. Or does it?

What's wrong with Jesus returning and reigning in Person on earth as the Lion of Judah?

I mean, doesn't He have the right to do so as Creator? Hasn't He even more than earned the right to do so, having been the slain Lamb of God?

Seriously, it's almost like blasphemy to some people, to even suggest Jesus Christ has any right to personally rule over His earth in any amount of time He pleases.

When you think about, with some of the mockery brought in, there's got to be something more spiritual to it, than just passion of knowledge, and thinking to rebuke false doctrine.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Do you want a even handed Bible study about it, with the two main views? I do written studies for home groups. Attached please find, 'Things to Come' to print out. I hope you don't find it too simple.

 

[Dave Watchman]

This is an honest question, I would like to hear any answers to.

Aside from the Scriptural argument itself, which can go one way or the other.

Why is there sometimes such zeal to not believe in Jesus' millennial reign, with His resurrected saints on this earth?

It's not like it has an effect on Christian living at this time. Or does it?

What's wrong with Jesus returning and reigning in Person on earth as the Lion of Judah?

I mean, doesn't He have the right to do so as Creator? Hasn't He even more than earned the right to do so, having been the slain Lamb of God?

Seriously, it's almost like blasphemy to some people, to even suggest Jesus Christ has any right to personally rule over His earth in any amount of time He pleases.

When you think about, with some of the mockery brought in, there's got to be something more spiritual to it, than just passion of knowledge, and thinking to rebuke false doctrine.

Everyone can believe whatever they want at this point in time.

But what's going to happen, must take place.

God is in charge of it.

Christ will rule with His Saints for 1000 years, and His Saints will judge the world.

And so I'm very sure that it will all be righteous.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is an honest question, I would like to hear any answers to.

Aside from the Scriptural argument itself, which can go one way or the other.

Why is there sometimes such zeal to not believe in Jesus' millennial reign, with His resurrected saints on this earth?

It's not like it has an effect on Christian living at this time. Or does it?

What's wrong with Jesus returning and reigning in Person on earth as the Lion of Judah?

I mean, doesn't He have the right to do so as Creator? Hasn't He even more than earned the right to do so, having been the slain Lamb of God?

Seriously, it's almost like blasphemy to some people, to even suggest Jesus Christ has any right to personally rule over His earth in any amount of time He pleases.

When you think about, with some of the mockery brought in, there's got to be something more spiritual to it, than just passion of knowledge, and thinking to rebuke false doctrine.

The teaching of a Millennium on this earth isnt found in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

The deceptive part is the mainline teaching has a literal physical jesus returning ruling on this earth from Jerusalem amongst mortal humans

This false teaching Is preparing the way for the future false walk on (christ/messiah) in Jerusalem who will proclaim To be God on earth (The Antichrist/The Beast)

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[jeffweeder]

This is an honest question, I would like to hear any answers to.

Aside from the Scriptural argument itself, which can go one way or the other.

Why is there sometimes such zeal to not believe in Jesus' millennial reign, with His resurrected saints on this earth?

It's not like it has an effect on Christian living at this time. Or does it?

What's wrong with Jesus returning and reigning in Person on earth as the Lion of Judah?

I mean, doesn't He have the right to do so as Creator? Hasn't He even more than earned the right to do so, having been the slain Lamb of God?

Seriously, it's almost like blasphemy to some people, to even suggest Jesus Christ has any right to personally rule over His earth in any amount of time He pleases.

When you think about, with some of the mockery brought in, there's got to be something more spiritual to it, than just passion of knowledge, and thinking to rebuke false doctrine.

Why did Jesus ascend to heaven instead of staying here?
The Gospel had to be preached and believed in all the earth before he comes back to receive those who believed it.
What's the point then of ruling over the lost for a thousand years.?

Paul makes clear in 2 thess 1, that the righteous judge will come in a flame of fire to give relief to his people, by eternally separating all those who have rejected his Gospel....on the day he appears to glorify all who have ever believed.


5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].

9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

 

[rwb]

This is an honest question, I would like to hear any answers to.

Aside from the Scriptural argument itself, which can go one way or the other.

Why is there sometimes such zeal to not believe in Jesus' millennial reign, with His resurrected saints on this earth?

It's not like it has an effect on Christian living at this time. Or does it?

What's wrong with Jesus returning and reigning in Person on earth as the Lion of Judah?

I mean, doesn't He have the right to do so as Creator? Hasn't He even more than earned the right to do so, having been the slain Lamb of God?

Seriously, it's almost like blasphemy to some people, to even suggest Jesus Christ has any right to personally rule over His earth in any amount of time He pleases.

When you think about, with some of the mockery brought in, there's got to be something more spiritual to it, than just passion of knowledge, and thinking to rebuke false doctrine.

The only way to properly understand the Revelation of Jesus Christ is to understand the style of John's writing. The language of Revelation is apocalyptic (supernaturally inspired cataclysmic events), filled with symbolism throughout. From the first chapter to the last we find John using symbolism as he attempts to describe these various strange and mostly unfamiliar visions he is given from heaven.

What we can tell in Rev 20:4 regarding a thousand years is that it equates to TIME. Time began at the creation of the earth when God created the sun and moon to distinguish between day and night. Where one day and one night equals one 24 hour period of time. With time we have days, months, seasons and years. From reading Rev 10 we discover TIME shall end when the seventh angel begins to sound. Not only will time be no longer, but John also writes when time is no longer the mystery of God He revealed to His servants the prophets is finished.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So far we discovered that time is given to this earth at creation, and that time will end. The time we are trying to discern, a thousand years, according to Rev 20 ends when Satan, after being in the pit a thousand years is freed from the pit.

Revelation 20:1 (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:2-3 (KJV) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Now begins the difficulty. Is the thousand years to be counted as symbolizing all time given the earth at creation, till time shall be no more? According to John this time is given for the witness of Jesus, and the word of God for those who had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands, and also during this time the lived and reigned with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Before the advent of Christ being born a human, and called by the name Jesus, the name Jesus is not mentioned by the Old Testament prophets. They witness of the promised Messiah who would come, but they did not know His name would be called Jesus. We see this in Rev 6 that says the souls under the altar were slain for the word of God and testimony they held, but no mention of being the witness of Jesus.

Revelation 6:9 (KJV) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Now we know the thousand years of time began with the first advent of Christ Jesus our Lord. Because that is when men began to proclaim His name. We know this because this time of a thousand years is given for the witness of Jesus that began with His birth.

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 12:3-4 (KJV) Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.

Matthew 1:21 (KJV) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:22-23 (KJV) Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

We know the thousand years began with the advent of Christ, and that it will end when the seventh angel begins to sound. The last or seventh trumpet sounds with the second coming of Christ when the bodies of believers is resurrected and changed to live with Christ forever on the new earth. Therefore the time, symbolized a thousand years is not literally one thousand years, but is time that began with the first advent of Christ, and will end when the seventh angel begins to sound Christ has come again.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

After the thousand years should be fulfilled, Satan is freed from his pit for a little season. The little season cannot be counted within the thousand years because it does not come until after the thousand years have expired. Unless you believe there will be another ONE thousand literal years after Satan's has his little season, which is nowhere proven through Scripture, it is proven the thousand years equals symbolic time for taking the Gospel unto all the earth that began with the first advent and will be finished when Christ comes the second time. And those whom John sees having lived and reigned with Christ during this symbolic time are spirit souls alive in heaven with Christ after being physically martyred on the earth.

 

[WPM]

Everyone can believe whatever they want at this point in time.

But what's going to happen, must take place.

God is in charge of it.

Christ will rule with His Saints for 1000 years, and His Saints will judge the world.

And so I'm very sure that it will all be righteous.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Have you corroboration for your opinion of Revelation 20? Please submit. Where else teaches this additional age in-between this age and the age to come?

 

[WPM]

This is an honest question, I would like to hear any answers to.

Aside from the Scriptural argument itself, which can go one way or the other.

Why is there sometimes such zeal to not believe in Jesus' millennial reign, with His resurrected saints on this earth?

It's not like it has an effect on Christian living at this time. Or does it?

What's wrong with Jesus returning and reigning in Person on earth as the Lion of Judah?

I mean, doesn't He have the right to do so as Creator? Hasn't He even more than earned the right to do so, having been the slain Lamb of God?

Seriously, it's almost like blasphemy to some people, to even suggest Jesus Christ has any right to personally rule over His earth in any amount of time He pleases.

When you think about, with some of the mockery brought in, there's got to be something more spiritual to it, than just passion of knowledge, and thinking to rebuke false doctrine.

Christ and the New Testament writers only recognize two overriding ages in their teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.” One is current, corrupt and temporal and the other is impending, perfect and eternal. One refers to mortal life on earth in the here-and-now, and the other refers to our eternal state. These terms are commonly used in the New Testament when contrasting the toil and trouble of our day with the glory and rest of the hereafter. These two common phrases are found in different places in the New Testament, along with several other similar expressions, referring to time and eternity. Basically, there is now and there is then – there is no in-between. The pivotal event that divides these two diverse ages is the glorious climactic return of Jesus Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

Have you corroboration for your opinion of Revelation 20? Please submit. Where else teaches this additional age in-between this age and the age to come?

Paul gave us 3 ages in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28.

 

[ewq1938]

Why is there sometimes such zeal to not believe in Jesus' millennial reign, with His resurrected saints on this earth?

Humans tend to prefer fables over the bible.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is an honest question, I would like to hear any answers to.

Aside from the Scriptural argument itself, which can go one way or the other.

Why is there sometimes such zeal to not believe in Jesus' millennial reign, with His resurrected saints on this earth?

It's not like it has an effect on Christian living at this time. Or does it?

What's wrong with Jesus returning and reigning in Person on earth as the Lion of Judah?

I mean, doesn't He have the right to do so as Creator? Hasn't He even more than earned the right to do so, having been the slain Lamb of God?

Seriously, it's almost like blasphemy to some people, to even suggest Jesus Christ has any right to personally rule over His earth in any amount of time He pleases.

When you think about, with some of the mockery brought in, there's got to be something more spiritual to it, than just passion of knowledge, and thinking to rebuke false doctrine.

Probably not a spiritual element to it, except unadulterated human pride in one's position. Amil has had a long and storied life, taking root in a few centuries after the book of Revelation was written. Interestingly, the idea of a Millennium may have preexisted among the Jewish People in the Sabbath Millennium concept, the Millennial Day theory. The Jews had long held, in accordance with the Prophets, the idea of Israel's final national restoration, in which they would never again be conquered by their enemies and never again suffer exile from their land. It was the hope in the Millennial Kingdom.

So contrary to what we hear here, Premillennialism seems to have held sway in the early centuries of the Christian Church, following John's description of a thousand year reign of Christ. It was intricately linked to the Jewish Hope, but according to Christianity, and according to the Abrahamic Promise, Israel was to be joined by many Christian nations. The Messianic Kingdom was for both Israel and the Christian nations. But gradually, belief in Israel's participation in this waned.

When it looked like the Jews would never be restored, and they would never tire of their hostility to Christianity, the Church gradually began to look for other explanations. At the same time, the hostility between the Church and the Jews, combined with the triumph of the Christian State, caused the Church to grow arrogant, and believe that they had been called to be God's chosen nation, whereas Israel had been rejected along with the Law of Moses.

Paul had warned against this very thing. And even though Hosea had promised that for a time Israel would be called "Not My People," he had predicted that ultimately Israel would be restored at the eschaton. Christians wanted to believe they were the "new Jews," effectively replacing those who were relying on a "natural calling," a people better than the Jews who had relied on a "carnal" elements of redemption. The "spiritual calling" seemed much higher to them.

Jesus had indeed said that for a time the Kingdom would pass from Israel to a Gentile nation, which I take to be Christian Rome, and that Israel's Diaspora would last until the end of the age. But Christians, in their arrogance, began to take pride in the Christian State, which really was destined to follow the same path that Israel did, ultimately falling into paganism and compromise.

Beyond this explanation for the start of Amil, other factors contributed. God seemed to be less concerned because He really did want the Church to take on the mantel of the Kingdom, something that anti-theocrats seem to now be running from. It was a joy to interpret the things God gave to Israel in a new way to non-Jews under the New Covenant. It became an interesting way to develop the theology of Christianity, by using the Law as symbolism to apply in principle to Christian morals.

But still, it's wrong to discard the Scriptures. Although future prophecy is not something Jesus wanted us to be overly concerned with he did put the Millennium into the Bible for a reason. It is especially useful now as Christians struggle to forgive Jews and give them confidence that God will accept their nation again.

 

[WPM]

Paul gave us 3 ages in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28.

Where?

 

[Timtofly]

Where?

The order of collection. You seem to dismiss the part: "But every man in his own order"

You have no order in your eschatology. Yet you claim "ages". Paul shows 3.

The firstfruits.
Those at the Second Coming.
Those at the end.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I should add that there's something more than just pride in one's position that motivates Amil adherents so strongly. I was hinting at it, but should spell it out more clearly. It is the false belief that there is a dichotomy between the OT Law and the NT Gospel. Certainly they are different, but they are not opposites, as is commonly assumed. The OT Law was actually a step in the direction of the NT Gospel.

This is so important to Amils because they believe that in accepting a Millennium based on the Jewish Scriptures Christians may be tempted to return to the OT Law and its inadequate system of justification. However, the Law was intended to be a temporary fix until final redemption could come through Christ. There is no reason to believe that embracing a future national salvation of Israel requires a return to the OT Law. Nor is there any reason to suppose that the Jewish Prophets foretold a Messianic Kingdom that would return the Law along with the nation Israel.

 

[WPM]

The order of collection. You seem to dismiss the part: "But every man in his own order"

You have no order in your eschatology. Yet you claim "ages". Paul shows 3.

The firstfruits.
Those at the Second Coming.
Those at the end.

You are seeing things! Where is your so-called future millennium mentioned there? Read the text. The end comes at the second coming. There is no space for time and continued sin and sinners. You force it into the next, as usual.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

In power and glory; visibly; in the clouds; physically touched before the ascension; seen by over 500. Otherwise, the resurrection didn’t physically happen and all hope is lost. No further replies from me on the subject.

 

[robert derrick]

Do you want a even handed Bible study about it, with the two main views? I do written studies for home groups. Attached please find, 'Things to Come' to print out. I hope you don't find it too simple.

I am hoping for an enlightening answer to the question.

I understand not all that do not believe in His millennial reign, are so vehement about it, but a few are, and I'm curious why.

We can go private if you like about the argument itself.

 

[robert derrick]

Everyone can believe whatever they want at this point in time.

But what's going to happen, must take place.

God is in charge of it.

Christ will rule with His Saints for 1000 years, and His Saints will judge the world.

And so I'm very sure that it will all be righteous.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

This doesn't explain why a Christian at this time, should ever get so vehement over the argument itself.

I mean, why get all hot and bothered about something that at least is not today, since He has not yet returned.

Or so we hope, and haven't missed out altogether.

 

[robert derrick]

The teaching of a Millennium on this earth isnt found in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

The deceptive part is the mainline teaching has a literal physical jesus returning ruling on this earth from Jerusalem amongst mortal humans

This false teaching Is preparing the way for the future false walk on (christ/messiah) in Jerusalem who will proclaim To be God on earth (The Antichrist/The Beast)

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord

So, you are saying that the teaching can possibly lead to supporting false christs, that walk upon Jerusalem, and become that man of sin as seated on God's throne in a temple made with hands.

I can see some passion in that. So long as that is made clear, when rejecting the doctrine of His millennial reign.

Such as, You Christians are setting yourselves up for a fall, while looking for Jesus to personally return and rule over the earth.

The problem of course is, we aren't looking from the earth to see His return to earth, but we look to be with Him in the air returning with Him, after the first resurrection of the blessed in Him.

His return itself from the air, will be like lightening with clouds of saints, for all eyes to see and mourn over. (Jude)(Rev 1)

Therefore, your scenario of falling for a false christ set up in Jerusalem, only applies to fools, that worship the beast and have his mark already.

Also, the way of His return in Scripture cannot possibly be mistaken for some idiot thinking he's Christ as God on earth.

Conclusion: Someone believing in His Scriptural return, cannot possibly be decieved by a so-called returned christ on earth.

 

[rwb]

I am hoping for an enlightening answer to the question.

I understand not all that do not believe in His millennial reign, are so vehement about it, but a few are, and I'm curious why.

We can go private if you like about the argument itself.

Because there is love for the truth. I realize we all believe we are rightly understanding eschatology, and all argue based on what we believe Scripture says. However, there is a fine line that is crossed when those who promote a ONE thousand year reign of Christ on this earth after Christ comes again. Once shown from the Scripture why that cannot be, because this earth is utterly burned up at His coming, and then continuing to promote a ONE thousand year period of time for this earth, you have gone from being deceived to being the deceiver. That means you deliberately promote a doctrine that has been soundly refuted time and again you are a false teacher, perhaps worse.

I know millennialists don't believe their doctrine has been soundly debunked. They ignore the contradictions millennialism forces, repeatedly shown them. The only reason one would not be troubled by doctrine that forces contradiction into the Word of God is because they are more concerned with being right, no matter what, than they care about having truth.

Amill, though I know loathed by millennialists, is the only doctrine without contradiction. I know this because I came out of millennialism when I became concerned about the many contradictions.