Question: Why not believe in Christ's millennial reign on earth?

[WPM]

I am hoping for an enlightening answer to the question.

I understand not all that do not believe in His millennial reign, are so vehement about it, but a few are, and I'm curious why.

We can go private if you like about the argument itself.

I have started up a new thread with the different objections many of us (former Premil) Amils have with Premil. Most of these i previously presented, but, i have added additional thoughts.

23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

I have updated my list of objections to Premil. I will submit this for your attention and response. Since abandoning Premillennialism I have engaged in many debates/discussions on the matter of the second coming, end-times and the here-after. These are some of the major weaknesses I find in the...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Truth7t7]

So, you are saying that the teaching can possibly lead to supporting false christs, that walk upon Jerusalem, and become that man of sin as seated on God's throne in a temple made with hands.

I can see some passion in that. So long as that is made clear, when rejecting the doctrine of His millennial reign.

Such as, You Christians are setting yourselves up for a fall, while looking for Jesus to personally return and rule over the earth.

The problem of course is, we aren't looking from the earth to see His return to earth, but we look to be with Him in the air returning with Him, after the first resurrection of the blessed in Him.

His return itself from the air, will be like lightening with clouds of saints, for all eyes to see and mourn over. (Jude)(Rev 1)

Therefore, your scenario of falling for a false christ set up in Jerusalem, only applies to fools, that worship the beast and have his mark already.

Also, the way of His return in Scripture cannot possibly be mistaken for some idiot thinking he's Christ as God on earth.

Conclusion: Someone believing in His Scriptural return, cannot possibly be decieved by a so-called returned christ on earth.

There is no pre-trib rapture found in scripture as you claim, it's a John N. Darby 1830's fabricated false teaching

There won't be a future millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Christian Gedge]

I am hoping for an enlightening answer to the question.

I understand not all that do not believe in His millennial reign, are so vehement about it, but a few are, and I'm curious why.

We can go private if you like about the argument itself.

Robert. I am amil and most of my friends on this forum are amil. In many cases we have come out of pre-mil backgrounds, and feel strongly (vehement is the wrong word) because we feel a sense of having been deceived about it earlier in our Christian walk. When I was first saved we were fed a continuous diet of late great planets, Tim LaHaye, alignment of planets, Y2K bugs, blood moons, rebuilt temples, economic collapse and pending doom.

When we found traditional eschatology, some got relieved, others got excited, and others got just plain angry. Surprise? I can only speak for myself. I don’t talk much about the millennium question except to say that I prefer the term ‘realised millennium’ rather than ‘amillennialism.’

I dont do “vehement.” But I support my friends with a bit of encouragement because they have made it there business to expose what has been bad eschatology and bad fruit for too long. I hope that answers your question bro.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Because there is love for the truth. I realize we all believe we are rightly understanding eschatology, and all argue based on what we believe Scripture says. However, there is a fine line that is crossed when those who promote a ONE thousand year reign of Christ on this earth after Christ comes again. Once shown from the Scripture why that cannot be, because this earth is utterly burned up at His coming, and then continuing to promote a ONE thousand year period of time for this earth, you have gone from being deceived to being the deceiver. That means you deliberately promote a doctrine that has been soundly refuted time and again you are a false teacher, perhaps worse.

I know millennialists don't believe their doctrine has been soundly debunked. They ignore the contradictions millennialism forces, repeatedly shown them. The only reason one would not be troubled by doctrine that forces contradiction into the Word of God is because they are more concerned with being right, no matter what, than they care about having truth.

Amill, though I know loathed by millennialists, is the only doctrine without contradiction. I know this because I came out of millennialism when I became concerned about the many contradictions.

I am a Premil and do not "loath" Amil, as you seem to "loath" Premil. There is nothing that I know of that can justify the kind of rationalization you're using for loathing Christians who are not convinced by Amil arguments?

Phil 3.15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.

Rom 14.4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand...
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Robert. I am amil and most of my friends on this forum are amil. In many cases we have come out of pre-mil backgrounds, and feel strongly (vehement is the wrong word) because we feel a sense of having been deceived about it earlier in our Christian walk. When I was first saved we were fed a continuous diet of late great planets, Tim LaHaye, alignment of planets, Y2K bugs, blood moons, rebuilt temples, economic collapse and pending doom.

When we found traditional eschatology, some got relieved, others got excited, and others got just plain angry. Surprise? I can only speak for myself. I don’t talk much about the millennium question except to say that I prefer the term ‘realised millennium’ rather than ‘amillennialism.’

I dont do “vehement.” But I support my friends with a bit of encouragement because they have made it there business to expose what has been bad eschatology and bad fruit for too long. I hope that answers your question bro.

It's funny how things look on the other side of this divide! I was raised to think Amil, and now feel deceived by it. The passage in Rev 20 is actually quite clear, and rebuttals to it fall short in my experience.

I'm not surprised that you're reacting to Dispensationalism, which is only one flavor of Premillennialism. Once you remove the Dispensationalist element, you may have an easier time digesting Premil arguments.

I wasn't raised Dispensationalist either, but was convinced to go that route. I'm not angry about it now, though--there are some elements, including Premil, that I agree with. I'm just not big on the Pretrib Rapture thing.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is no pre-trib rapture found in scripture as you claim, it's a John N. Darby 1830's fabricated false teaching

There won't be a future millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Truth, do you believe in being kind and friendly and loving with other Christians? Do you believe we should respect one another? Then I suggest you not just give quick bursts of declarative statements and mandates. It really makes a doctrinal position look bad. And if you do succeed in getting converts to your position, you will not be winning people you want on your side.

Looking forward to hearing arguments from you--not insulting claims that anything you don't believe in personally is a "fairy tale." But I don't know if you're Christian enough to submit to others in this way? Good luck!

 

[Keraz]

I believe in the Millennium reign of Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, because that will be His title when He Returns. Rev 19:16
The AMill belief that Jesus destroys the world at His Return, is wrong and is a contradiction of the 4 main Prophesies which describe the glorious Return. Zechariah 14:4, Matthew 24:29-30, 2 Thess 4:16, Revelation 19:11-21

God will reward His Son with the Rulership over the world for a thousand years, as is clearly Prophesied: Psalms 2:8, Isaiah 2:2-4, Isaiah 53:10-12, Micah 5:2-5a, and of course the six mentions of that thousand year period in Revelation 20 just cannot honestly be refuted.

We must be ready for a time of testing, when the Lord will winnow out the 'chaff from the wheat'.
But what God has ready for all who believe in Him and who have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus, will astound all who receive it and will live in His Kingdom.

 

[robert derrick]

Why did Jesus ascend to heaven instead of staying here?
The Gospel had to be preached and believed in all the earth before he comes back to receive those who believed it.
What's the point then of ruling over the lost for a thousand years.?

Paul makes clear in 2 thess 1, that the righteous judge will come in a flame of fire to give relief to his people, by eternally separating all those who have rejected his Gospel....on the day he appears to glorify all who have ever believed.


5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].

9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day [that is, glorified through the changed lives of those who have accepted Him as Savior and have been set apart for His purpose], and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed and trusted [and confirmed in your lives].

The question is why some refuse to believe Jesus can rule over His own earth with His saints, and are so vehement about it, as though it really matters one way or the other at this time.

The question is not why would He. He would as with all things He does: according to His good pleasure and will.

He would want to for the Father, and it would be in God's purpose to do so.

To men, it would simply show, that even with the Lord and His word ruling over all the earth in righteousness, and without Satan tempting man to reject Him and His word, there would still be them that do it.

I.e less excuse than even Adam had.

 

[robert derrick]

The only way to properly understand the Revelation of Jesus Christ is to understand the style of John's writing. The language of Revelation is apocalyptic (supernaturally inspired cataclysmic events), filled with symbolism throughout. From the first chapter to the last we find John using symbolism as he attempts to describe these various strange and mostly unfamiliar visions he is given from heaven.

What we can tell in Rev 20:4 regarding a thousand years is that it equates to TIME. Time began at the creation of the earth when God created the sun and moon to distinguish between day and night. Where one day and one night equals one 24 hour period of time. With time we have days, months, seasons and years. From reading Rev 10 we discover TIME shall end when the seventh angel begins to sound. Not only will time be no longer, but John also writes when time is no longer the mystery of God He revealed to His servants the prophets is finished.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So far we discovered that time is given to this earth at creation, and that time will end. The time we are trying to discern, a thousand years, according to Rev 20 ends when Satan, after being in the pit a thousand years is freed from the pit.

Revelation 20:1 (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Revelation 20:2-3 (KJV) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Now begins the difficulty. Is the thousand years to be counted as symbolizing all time given the earth at creation, till time shall be no more? According to John this time is given for the witness of Jesus, and the word of God for those who had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands, and also during this time the lived and reigned with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Before the advent of Christ being born a human, and called by the name Jesus, the name Jesus is not mentioned by the Old Testament prophets. They witness of the promised Messiah who would come, but they did not know His name would be called Jesus. We see this in Rev 6 that says the souls under the altar were slain for the word of God and testimony they held, but no mention of being the witness of Jesus.

Revelation 6:9 (KJV) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Now we know the thousand years of time began with the first advent of Christ Jesus our Lord. Because that is when men began to proclaim His name. We know this because this time of a thousand years is given for the witness of Jesus that began with His birth.

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 12:3-4 (KJV) Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.

Matthew 1:21 (KJV) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:22-23 (KJV) Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

We know the thousand years began with the advent of Christ, and that it will end when the seventh angel begins to sound. The last or seventh trumpet sounds with the second coming of Christ when the bodies of believers is resurrected and changed to live with Christ forever on the new earth. Therefore the time, symbolized a thousand years is not literally one thousand years, but is time that began with the first advent of Christ, and will end when the seventh angel begins to sound Christ has come again.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

After the thousand years should be fulfilled, Satan is freed from his pit for a little season. The little season cannot be counted within the thousand years because it does not come until after the thousand years have expired. Unless you believe there will be another ONE thousand literal years after Satan's has his little season, which is nowhere proven through Scripture, it is proven the thousand years equals symbolic time for taking the Gospel unto all the earth that began with the first advent and will be finished when Christ comes the second time. And those whom John sees having lived and reigned with Christ during this symbolic time are spirit souls alive in heaven with Christ after being physically martyred on the earth.

The question is why some are so vehemently against Jesus reigning personally over this earth with His resurrected saints. For them, it's not just a matter of simple doctrinal dispute.

And yet, what bearing does it have on living and walking with Jesus today?

 

[robert derrick]

Christ and the New Testament writers only recognize two overriding ages in their teaching – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.” One is current, corrupt and temporal and the other is impending, perfect and eternal. One refers to mortal life on earth in the here-and-now, and the other refers to our eternal state. These terms are commonly used in the New Testament when contrasting the toil and trouble of our day with the glory and rest of the hereafter. These two common phrases are found in different places in the New Testament, along with several other similar expressions, referring to time and eternity. Basically, there is now and there is then – there is no in-between. The pivotal event that divides these two diverse ages is the glorious climactic return of Jesus Christ.

The question is why some are so vehemently against Jesus reigning personally over this earth with His resurrected saints. For them, it's not just a matter of simple doctrinal dispute.

And yet, what bearing does it have on living and walking with Jesus today?

 

[robert derrick]

Humans tend to prefer fables over the bible.

True, and though it doesn't mean I can't still enjoy reading about Zeus and watching movies about Herakles.

You don't have to hate a lying myth to acknowledge it as a lying myth.

The point is why the vehemence against a millennial reign, if like myths, it has nothing to do with living for Christ today?

Or does it?

 

[robert derrick]

Probably not a spiritual element to it, except unadulterated human pride in one's position. Amil has had a long and storied life, taking root in a few centuries after the book of Revelation was written. Interestingly, the idea of a Millennium may have preexisted among the Jewish People in the Sabbath Millennium concept, the Millennial Day theory. The Jews had long held, in accordance with the Prophets, the idea of Israel's final national restoration, in which they would never again be conquered by their enemies and never again suffer exile from their land. It was the hope in the Millennial Kingdom.

So contrary to what we hear here, Premillennialism seems to have held sway in the early centuries of the Christian Church, following John's description of a thousand year reign of Christ. It was intricately linked to the Jewish Hope, but according to Christianity, and according to the Abrahamic Promise, Israel was to be joined by many Christian nations. The Messianic Kingdom was for both Israel and the Christian nations. But gradually, belief in Israel's participation in this waned.

When it looked like the Jews would never be restored, and they would never tire of their hostility to Christianity, the Church gradually began to look for other explanations. At the same time, the hostility between the Church and the Jews, combined with the triumph of the Christian State, caused the Church to grow arrogant, and believe that they had been called to be God's chosen nation, whereas Israel had been rejected along with the Law of Moses.

Paul had warned against this very thing. And even though Hosea had promised that for a time Israel would be called "Not My People," he had predicted that ultimately Israel would be restored at the eschaton. Christians wanted to believe they were the "new Jews," effectively replacing those who were relying on a "natural calling," a people better than the Jews who had relied on a "carnal" elements of redemption. The "spiritual calling" seemed much higher to them.

Jesus had indeed said that for a time the Kingdom would pass from Israel to a Gentile nation, which I take to be Christian Rome, and that Israel's Diaspora would last until the end of the age. But Christians, in their arrogance, began to take pride in the Christian State, which really was destined to follow the same path that Israel did, ultimately falling into paganism and compromise.

Beyond this explanation for the start of Amil, other factors contributed. God seemed to be less concerned because He really did want the Church to take on the mantel of the Kingdom, something that anti-theocrats seem to now be running from. It was a joy to interpret the things God gave to Israel in a new way to non-Jews under the New Covenant. It became an interesting way to develop the theology of Christianity, by using the Law as symbolism to apply in principle to Christian morals.

But still, it's wrong to discard the Scriptures. Although future prophecy is not something Jesus wanted us to be overly concerned with he did put the Millennium into the Bible for a reason. It is especially useful now as Christians struggle to forgive Jews and give them confidence that God will accept their nation again.

I understand pride of knowledge, that is not charity. But there are plenty of false teachings, that deserve to be hated, because they corrupt the doctrine and good manners of the saints:

Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

But how does believing in pre-mil, pre-trib, post-trib, post-mil, etc have anything to do with walking with Jesus today?

 

[robert derrick]

I should add that there's something more than just pride in one's position that motivates Amil adherents so strongly. I was hinting at it, but should spell it out more clearly. It is the false belief that there is a dichotomy between the OT Law and the NT Gospel. Certainly they are different, but they are not opposites, as is commonly assumed. The OT Law was actually a step in the direction of the NT Gospel.

This is so important to Amils because they believe that in accepting a Millennium based on the Jewish Scriptures Christians may be tempted to return to the OT Law and its inadequate system of justification. However, the Law was intended to be a temporary fix until final redemption could come through Christ. There is no reason to believe that embracing a future national salvation of Israel requires a return to the OT Law. Nor is there any reason to suppose that the Jewish Prophets foretold a Messianic Kingdom that would return the Law along with the nation Israel.

Now, here is something solid, that I had not thought of.

Are you saying, that believing in Christ's millennial reign on earth, where a version of the law of Moses is being restored, may lead some Christians today to return to parts of that law that is done away, such as sacrifice of blood of animals for sin?

That is what Scripture in Ezekiel shows, as well as the necessity of outward circumcision of the flesh, along with inward circumcision by the Spirit of Christ.

Or, that they can justify teaching the law of Moses like Judaizers, based upon the future millennial reign with some of the law of Moses?

 

[jeffweeder]

The question is why some refuse to believe Jesus can rule over His own earth with His saints,

When the Lord comes, he comes in the power and glory of the Father. Can anyone see God in his Glory and live?

He would want to for the Father, and it would be in God's purpose to do so.

why?
I think God is interested in our faith in what we do not see..
The time will come (NHNE) when we will see his face,


Rev 22
3 There will no longer exist anything that is cursed [because sin and illness and death are gone]; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve and worship Him [with great awe and joy and loving devotion]; 4 they will [be privileged to] see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5 And there will no longer be night; they have no need for lamplight or sunlight, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign [as kings] forever and ever.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Have you corroboration for your opinion of Revelation 20? Please submit. Where else teaches this additional age in-between this age and the age to come?

It fits with the millennial day theory.

A day is like a thousand years, a thousand years is like a day.

For the Lord that is.

We're counting up the end of 6000 years of Bible Genealogy.

Six one thousand year days.

So a seventh one thousand year day fits the plan.

And you can have a thousand symbolic cattle on a thousand symbolic hills, but there's no such thing as symbolic "time".

All of the 18 prophetic time periods, even those translated day for a year, in Daniel and Revelation are literal time.

1. Time, times and half a time (saints persecuted – Daniel 7:25)​

2. 2,300 evenings and mornings (until temple restored – Daniel 8:14)​

3. 70 weeks (determined upon the Jews, Messiah crucified – Daniel 9:24,25)​

4. Time, times and half a time (when completed, power of the holy people – Daniel 12:7)​

5. 1,290 days (from the end of the daily to the setting up of the abomination – Daniel 12:11)​

6. 1,335 days (blessed is the one who waits for and reaches this day – Daniel 12:12)​

7. Half hour of silence (at the opening of the 7th seal – Revelation 8:1)​

8. 5 months (length of torture upon those not having the seal of God – Revelation 9:5)​

9. Hour, day, month and year (event when war begins – Revelation 9:15)​

10. 42 months (Gentiles trample holy city – Revelation 11:2)​

11. 1,260 days (Two Witnesses empowered for this length of time – Revelation 11:3)​

12. 3.5 days (bodies of Two Witnesses lie in the street – Revelation 11:11)​

13. 1,260 days (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:6)​

14. Time, times and half a time (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:14)​

15. 42 months (persecution of saints – Revelation 13:5)​

16. One hour (ten kings join with beast – Revelation 17:12)​

17. One day, one hour (Babylon’s destruction begins – Revelation 18:8,19)​

18. 1,000 years (Satan in the abyss – Revelation 20:2)​

This list was compiled by my friend Larry Wilson from Ohio.

 

[Truth7t7]

Truth, do you believe in being kind and friendly and loving with other Christians? Do you believe we should respect one another? Then I suggest you not just give quick bursts of declarative statements and mandates. It really makes a doctrinal position look bad. And if you do succeed in getting converts to your position, you will not be winning people you want on your side.

Looking forward to hearing arguments from you--not insulting claims that anything you don't believe in personally is a "fairy tale." But I don't know if you're Christian enough to submit to others in this way? Good luck!

I'm kind, friendly, loving, respectful, only someone being openly exposed on forums would claim otherwise

When I post showing your error in false teachings for correction, this alone shows my kindness and respectful love

Your continued claims of "National Salvation For Israel" is a harmful "Lie" in my "Opinion", I use a very calm word in "Fairytale" to describe your claims

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

It fits with the millennial day theory.

A day is like a thousand years, a thousand years is like a day.

For the Lord that is.

We're counting up the end of 6000 years of Bible Genealogy.

Six one thousand year days.

So a seventh one thousand year day fits the plan.

And you can have a thousand symbolic cattle on a thousand symbolic hills, but there's no such thing as symbolic "time".

All of the 18 prophetic time periods, even those translated day for a year, in Daniel and Revelation are literal time.

1. Time, times and half a time (saints persecuted – Daniel 7:25)​

2. 2,300 evenings and mornings (until temple restored – Daniel 8:14)​

3. 70 weeks (determined upon the Jews, Messiah crucified – Daniel 9:24,25)​

4. Time, times and half a time (when completed, power of the holy people – Daniel 12:7)​

5. 1,290 days (from the end of the daily to the setting up of the abomination – Daniel 12:11)​

6. 1,335 days (blessed is the one who waits for and reaches this day – Daniel 12:12)​

7. Half hour of silence (at the opening of the 7th seal – Revelation 8:1)​

8. 5 months (length of torture upon those not having the seal of God – Revelation 9:5)​

9. Hour, day, month and year (event when war begins – Revelation 9:15)​

10. 42 months (Gentiles trample holy city – Revelation 11:2)​

11. 1,260 days (Two Witnesses empowered for this length of time – Revelation 11:3)​

12. 3.5 days (bodies of Two Witnesses lie in the street – Revelation 11:11)​

13. 1,260 days (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:6)​

14. Time, times and half a time (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:14)​

15. 42 months (persecution of saints – Revelation 13:5)​

16. One hour (ten kings join with beast – Revelation 17:12)​

17. One day, one hour (Babylon’s destruction begins – Revelation 18:8,19)​

18. 1,000 years (Satan in the abyss – Revelation 20:2)​

This list was compiled by my friend Larry Wilson from Ohio.

If you believe a thousand years equals one day, then I would request your lifetime of working service for one days wage, smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

Christians today to return to parts of that law that is done away, such as sacrifice of blood of animals for sin?

That is what Scripture in Ezekiel shows, as well as the necessity of outward circumcision of the flesh, along with inward circumcision by the Spirit of Christ.

Or, that they can justify teaching the law of Moses like Judaizers, based upon the future millennial reign with some of the law of Moses?

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth With Animal Sacrifice Present, Is This True?​

As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

 

[WPM]

It fits with the millennial day theory.

A day is like a thousand years, a thousand years is like a day.

For the Lord that is.

We're counting up the end of 6000 years of Bible Genealogy.

Six one thousand year days.

So a seventh one thousand year day fits the plan.

And you can have a thousand symbolic cattle on a thousand symbolic hills, but there's no such thing as symbolic "time".

All of the 18 prophetic time periods, even those translated day for a year, in Daniel and Revelation are literal time.

1. Time, times and half a time (saints persecuted – Daniel 7:25)​

2. 2,300 evenings and mornings (until temple restored – Daniel 8:14)​

3. 70 weeks (determined upon the Jews, Messiah crucified – Daniel 9:24,25)​

4. Time, times and half a time (when completed, power of the holy people – Daniel 12:7)​

5. 1,290 days (from the end of the daily to the setting up of the abomination – Daniel 12:11)​

6. 1,335 days (blessed is the one who waits for and reaches this day – Daniel 12:12)​

7. Half hour of silence (at the opening of the 7th seal – Revelation 8:1)​

8. 5 months (length of torture upon those not having the seal of God – Revelation 9:5)​

9. Hour, day, month and year (event when war begins – Revelation 9:15)​

10. 42 months (Gentiles trample holy city – Revelation 11:2)​

11. 1,260 days (Two Witnesses empowered for this length of time – Revelation 11:3)​

12. 3.5 days (bodies of Two Witnesses lie in the street – Revelation 11:11)​

13. 1,260 days (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:6)​

14. Time, times and half a time (woman fled into the desert – Revelation 12:14)​

15. 42 months (persecution of saints – Revelation 13:5)​

16. One hour (ten kings join with beast – Revelation 17:12)​

17. One day, one hour (Babylon’s destruction begins – Revelation 18:8,19)​

18. 1,000 years (Satan in the abyss – Revelation 20:2)​

This list was compiled by my friend Larry Wilson from Ohio.

Tell Larry he needs to stop twisting Scripture. He has given you no Scripture that corroborates the Premil opinion of Rev 20. I suspect you knew that when you could not respond yourself. None of the above passages describe a future thousand years.

 

[WPM]

The question is why some are so vehemently against Jesus reigning personally over this earth with His resurrected saints. For them, it's not just a matter of simple doctrinal dispute.

And yet, what bearing does it have on living and walking with Jesus today?

Revelation 20 shows the dead in Christ reigning in heaven with Christ since the first resurrection. The living redeemed are spiritually reigning now on earth.

The Premil paradigm enjoys zero corroboration in Scripture.