Questions

[VictoryinJesus]

So if I DID take the necklace, it would have been the Holy Spirit taking it?
And why are you getting into whether or not it's a struggle for me?
I used it as an example everyone could understand.

I agree with you that the Holy Spirit HELPS us. He's our HELPER, not our puppet master.

You said faith without works is dead.
What does THAT mean?

I really fail to understand where you're going with all of the above.
Sorry.

You're saying that what is sin to one may not be sin to another.
Right.
But some things are sin to EVERYONE.
You'll have to go back and do that lesson all over again -- something was misunderstood.

No, the argument is far too much focused on the flesh and its goodness. That is the whole debate. Look at the flesh, look at the flesh, look at the flesh...focus more on the flesh. Strain, grit your teeth with all your might...

...something was misunderstood.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, the argument is far too much focused on the flesh and its goodness. That is the whole debate. Look at the flesh, look at the flesh, look at the flesh...focus more on the flesh. Strain, grit your teeth with all your might...

...something was misunderstood.

Well my dear,
It is those such as yourself that force me to speak of works.
Do you suppose I go around all day STRAINING and GRITTING MY TEETH with all my might?

Answer me this:
Are we required to follow the 10 Commandments?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Did Jesus say we are only required to follow the ten?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well my dear,
It is those such as yourself that force me to speak of works.
Do you suppose I go around all day STRAINING and GRITTING MY TEETH with all my might?

Answer me this:
Are we required to follow the 10 Commandments?

I love you. If you believe the Spirit says you should keep the Ten Commandments. Then do. I fail. I can't keep them all. I have trouble with keeping the second commandment of love your brethern as yourself. I don't do well with unity. That is the work and evidence of the Holy Spirit in my life. HE says it is about unity and fellowship and He will produce the impossible in my life.

 

[GodsGrace]

I love you. If you believe the Spirit says you should keep the Ten Commandments. Then do. I fail. I can't keep them all. I have trouble with keeping the second commandment of love your brethern as yourself. I don't do well with unity. That is the work and evidence of the Holy Spirit in my life. HE says it is about unity and fellowship and He will produce the impossible in my life.

Did I say I succeed in keeping them all?
Where did I say that?

I said:
We are required to follow the 10 commandments.
Whether or not we do is a totally different matter.

Wow. We're so afraid of having to be good little boys and girls, aren't we?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Did I say I succeed in keeping them all?
Where did I say that?

I said:
We are required to follow the 10 commandments.
Whether or not we do is a totally different matter.

Wow. We're so afraid of having to be good little boys and girls, aren't we?

Then what work will you be judged by?

Your failure?

Doesn't sound like the LORD I know, who went to the cross, was crucified, and rose from the dead...for this bad little girl.

 

[tabletalk]

All of it. Jesus Christ is the word made flesh, it all speaks of Him.

It means you are clean. Your cover doesn't slip this way and that way due to the law. Your cover is Christ. The works are not works produced by the flesh. The works are the works produced by the Spirit of God. They are Holy works; It is not our work. Focusing on our work and what we are doing and is it enough...is focus on self and on earthly matters.

For instance(a true story). A man takes on the role of pastor over a congregation. It makes him feel good, the responsibility of under-shepherding all those people. He is looked upon with such admiration by others. He is available to the public, every eye sees and praises his good works. His position made the sad injured boy in him feel important and needed. He gave and served out in public even when he didn't want to, afraid of how he would appear. Yet when he passes away his wife of thirty-years and children have a different testimony to tell. They know nothing of Gods word and plead to be taught. They are broken and hungry; dry bones. His wife admits to not being apart of her husbands congregation, since her expected role was the preparation of the meal for after church. Her life was serving...she has no idea who Jesus Christ is. But she soon realizes her sin and accepts Jesus as the only way. When both stand before God and are judged for works...which is counted righteous? What WORK are they judged by?

What is the work of the Spirit? It is the work produced by the Spirit. Not the work produced by the flesh. If the Spirit is in you, their is no more law. HE is the author and finisher of our faith.


Store up treasure in Heaven....
Has nothing to do with what the flesh produces. It is Spirit! HIs glory! HIs way! HE accomplishes it, so NO man can glory in the flesh.

You said: "If the Spirit is in you, their is no more law."

At the end of Romans 7 Paul summarizes (I think) who we serve (even though he is writing to Jews, I think it is a summary for a believer also):
25."I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

What do you think of this?
(Also, I notice Paul says I myself, as if to emphasize who he really is in Christ, and to pretty much have no regard for the flesh in his life)

 

[Richard_oti]

Did you ever notice my signature line?

Yep, may have read it a few times.

 

[Richard_oti]

No better choose of words could be given here. You just explained exactly why God kept taking me back to the quail. Sometimes my focus shifts to the physical and I get depressed and I complain, instead of praising God for His supernatural provision.

Well, as they say, it takes one to know one. May have spent a little time there myself.

May YHVH continue to bless you.

 

[mjrhealth]

Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

No, teh law is not our, they where given to the Israelits by God through Moses, written in Stone,

again

Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

It is not ours, never was ours, never will be ours, and anyone who "demands" we keep them. lays a stumbling block between themselves and God and will be responsible for all those whom they cause to stumbles

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

They are like the pharisees,

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

why

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

and that is exactly what they do, keep people from God.

So if you want teh law, fine it will be your demise, for He who keeps the LAw will be judged by teh law and for them there is no grace.

And anyone who says God "demands" does not know God nor Jesus because God is love as Jesus is love and Love demands nothing from anyone.

In all His gracious Love

 

[tabletalk]

Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

No, teh law is not our, they where given to the Israelits by God through Moses, written in Stone,

again

Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

It is not ours, never was ours, never will be ours, and anyone who "demands" we keep them. lays a stumbling block between themselves and God and will be responsible for all those whom they cause to stumbles

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

They are like the pharisees,

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

why

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

and that is exactly what they do, keep people from God.

So if you want teh law, fine it will be your demise, for He who keeps the LAw will be judged by teh law and for them there is no grace.

And anyone who says God "demands" does not know God nor Jesus because God is love as Jesus is love and Love demands nothing from anyone.

In all His gracious Love

You said: "...Love demands nothing from anyone."

God is Love, and He commands us to love Him.
Mark 12:30
*And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.*

Sounds like a "demand" to me, so I must "not know God nor Jesus" according to your religion.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sounds like a "demand" to me, so I must "not know God nor Jesus" according to your religion.

Well glad you figured it out, religion, what has God got to do with religion??

 

[GodsGrace]

Then what work will you be judged by?

Your failure?

Doesn't sound like the LORD I know, who went to the cross, was crucified, and rose from the dead...for this bad little girl.

You said: "...Love demands nothing from anyone."

God is Love, and He commands us to love Him.
Mark 12:30
*And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.*

Sounds like a "demand" to me, so I must "not know God nor Jesus" according to your religion.

Some here don't understand that God is GOD.
They like to think of him as just another person.
They say love makes no demands.
Well, I'm married and I make demands.
Guess I don't love my husband.

I hear much foolishness from some.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well glad you figured it out, religion, what has God got to do with religion??

Well, apparently YOU are following a religion since you learned such foolishness from some weird church you go to.

Read the bible, which you don't like, and get to know the REAL GOD.
GOD DEMANDS a lot from us.

He's not like your neighbor or wife or cousin or any other HUMAN, that requests things of you.

GOD DEMANDS.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You said: "If the Spirit is in you, their is no more law."

At the end of Romans 7 Paul summarizes (I think) who we serve (even though he is writing to Jews, I think it is a summary for a believer also):
25."I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

What do you think of this?
(Also, I notice Paul says I myself, as if to emphasize who he really is in Christ, and to pretty much have no regard for the flesh in his life)

I thought a lot about Romans last night and what you asked. Read it multiple times and the most honest answer I can give is this:

Romans 7:4 KJV
[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

I have to be careful saying the law is dead. The law is good, right? The law is what reveals a man's state, his sin and his separation from God.

Romans 7:10-12 KJV
[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me . [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

My flesh is condemned by law. It has been found guilty. My flesh is destined to return to the dust. No amount of faith and effort on my part will EVER redeem this flesh. I am promised a glorified body. This one goes into the ground.

Now your question:
Romans 7:25 KJV
[25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

There is the carnal mind:
Romans 8:5-6 KJV
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

And there is the spiritually minded. By your post, I know you hear this in what Paul says. In acknowledgment that the law is good, when Paul says with his mind he serves the law of God: he means Christ. Christ is the embodiment of the Law. Unlike the letter that kills, Christ is life and love. "Be ye transformed by the renewing of the mind" why? The more Christ(the word) is in us, the more we become spiritually minded. Focused on God and not the temporal.

The flesh is condemned by the law:
Romans 7:17-18 KJV
[17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

If we focus carnally on the flesh then we remain condemned.

Romans 8:9-10 KJV
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. [10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:1 KJV
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The flesh is condemned. There is no more condemnation for those in Christ. Faith doesn't justify this rotten flesh...it is returning to dust.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Some here don't understand that God is GOD.
They like to think of him as just another person.
They say love makes no demands.
Well, I'm married and I make demands.
Guess I don't love my husband.

I hear much foolishness from some.

You seem to think I believe we just do whatever. I never said that. I said the flesh can do nothing. But what the LORD can do is:

Romans 8:16 KJV
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 8:27 KJV
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:30 KJV
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Now a really hard one:
Romans 12:19-21
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 13:1-5 KJV
[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Pay attention to 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good.

Romans 8:28 KJV
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


HE does it. Why?
Romans 10:3-4 KJV
[3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Love you, GodsGrace.

 

[GodsGrace]

You seem to think I believe we just do whatever. I never said that. I said the flesh can do nothing. But what the LORD can do is:

Romans 8:16 KJV
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 8:27 KJV
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:30 KJV
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Now a really hard one:
Romans 12:19-21
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 13:1-5 KJV
[1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Pay attention to 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good.

Romans 8:28 KJV
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


HE does it. Why?
Romans 10:3-4 KJV
[3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Love you, GodsGrace.

I didn't read it all.
Sorry.
I like the Reader's Digest version.


Here's one for you:
John 5:28-29

And here's another one:
Mathew 23:37

The top one if for how we will be judged by our works.
Sorry for using that word...

The second one shows how Jesus wanted to save everyone in Jerusalem but they did not want to be saved.

I think I believe Jesus more than Paul.

I don't even really know what your point is. Too much to read.
What is your point?
What does Jesus say about your point?
Could you please post something Jesus said since He's the one who hung on that cross?

Thanks.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I didn't read it all.
Sorry.
I like the Reader's Digest version.


Here's one for you:
John 5:28-29

And here's another one:
Mathew 23:37

The top one if for how we will be judged by our works.
Sorry for using that word...

The second one shows how Jesus wanted to save everyone in Jerusalem but they did not want to be saved.

I think I believe Jesus more than Paul.

I don't even really know what your point is. Too much to read.
What is your point?
What does Jesus say about your point?
Could you please post something Jesus said since He's the one who hung on that cross?

Thanks.

ok.

Matthew 22:37-40 KJV
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

When you get the time, please read Romans 12.

You do realize Paul is a part of the
brethren?
Be careful...

 

[GodsGrace]

ok.

Matthew 22:37-40 KJV
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

When you get the time, please read Romans 12.

You do realize Paul is a part of the
brethren?
Be careful...

Actually, I know the whole bible pretty well.

How about not thinking about the time I have and just tell me what your point is...?

 

[GodsGrace]

ok.

Matthew 22:37-40 KJV
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

When you get the time, please read Romans 12.

You do realize Paul is a part of the
brethren?
Be careful...

Oh. And as to Paul.
We'll see about that after you tell me what your point is...