Quick-Vid of Forgiveness vs Atonement

[Episkopos]

lol

If your going to stand in front of God with your own holiness.

You might as well make a ticket to hell now.. because thats where your headed

I did not make it about animals. GOD DID.

Those animals, which were required for atonement, (even though they did not achieve it) symbolised the lamb of God. who shed his own blood..

You can Mock Christ all you want. You will be the one to suffer

You claim to be Christ? If anything is worth mocking its your insufferable self-importance. The Pharisees had no sense of humour either. They also took themselves too seriously.

Using the opposite rule you are admitting what you actually do. Your false accusation is actually an admission of guilt on your part.

 

[Azim]

I've been thinking about this video, and the full one over the last few days. This is what I understand so far, from also studying through scripture to learn more. Sin separates us from God, for God is Holy. The OT animal sacrifices were always temporary until the next year, where it had to be done again, and again. It also made it harder to have a relationship with God? With Jesus shedding his blood, it finally made it possible to approach God as he wanted, as the blood "covers and reconciles" us to Him. Allowing us to worship God in spirit? I'm thinking also of Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan women, where she pointed out the Jews worshiped God in Jerusalem. Then Jesus telling her a time would soon come with believers worshiping God in spirit, and not relying on a certain location.

 

[Episkopos]

I've been thinking about this video, and the full one over the last few days. This is what I understand so far, from also studying through scripture to learn more. Sin separates us from God, for God is Holy. The OT animal sacrifices were always temporary until the next year, where it had to be done again, and again. It also made it harder to have a relationship with God? With Jesus shedding his blood, it finally made it possible to approach God as he wanted, as the blood "covers and reconciles" us to Him. Allowing us to worship God in spirit? I'm thinking also of Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan women, where she pointed out the Jews worshiped God in Jerusalem. Then Jesus telling her a time would soon come with believers worshiping God in spirit, and not relying on a certain location.

Yes, Israel was to be a holy nation. As such atonement was required to maintain that holy connection...in the OT as a marker, until Christ. Forgiveness is NOT about holiness, but rather about righteousness.

God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins...as we repent. But atonement in the NT is about being reconciled to God...not just forgiven.

The blood of Jesus is about holiness. It is the body (flesh) of Jesus that represents righteousness. We are to eat His Body and drink His blood...meaning we are to pursue righteousness through obedience to His words AND enter INTO Him through a full surrender into being translated to be with Him WHERE He is.

When we abide in Him that is through the blood. When He abides in us...that is through eating His flesh (obedience).

Jesus said...

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoso eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is further explained this way..

56 He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him.

 

[Episkopos]

"Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate." Heb. 13:12



(does it say, that He might forgive them with His own blood?)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You claim to be Christ? If anything is worth mocking its your insufferable self-importance. The Pharisees had no sense of humour either. They also took themselves too seriously.

yes. thats why not only because of your legalistic self righteous boasting. but your lack of humor and taking yourself to seriously.. You are a modern day pharisee

Using the opposite rule you are admitting what you actually do. Your false accusation is actually an admission of guilt on your part.

Yet your the one who can not counter what i said about the animal sacrifices and the atonement sacrifice and what they did.

All you can do is mock the messenger.

That speaks volumes..

sadly, I fear neither you or your followers will admit this. anymore than you will acknowledge your bearing false witness of others like you always do against others.

 

[Episkopos]

yes. thats why not only because of your legalistic self righteous boasting. but your lack of humor and taking yourself to seriously.. You are a modern day pharisee

Yet your the one who can not counter what i said about the animal sacrifices and the atonement sacrifice and what they did.

All you can do is mock the messenger.

That speaks volumes..

sadly, I fear neither you or your followers will admit this. anymore than you will acknowledge your bearing false witness of others like you always do against others.

OK, OK, ....don't hog the mirror. Let someone else self-reflect.

Obviously, honesty is not a flower that grows in everyone's garden.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate." Heb. 13:12



(does it say, that He might forgive them with His own blood?)

Ephesians 1:7

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14

in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:22

And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

Does it say there is forgiveness through the purchased price of his blood?

Can you explain the day of atonement to us and your followers?

Can you explain to us what God meant when he said Aaron and all high priests are supposed to do this?

Lev 16: 6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house.

9 And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the Lord’s lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering

11 “And Aaron shall bring the bull of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house, and shall kill the bull as the sin offering which is for himself.

14 He shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.
15 “Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

17 There shall be no man in the tabernacle of meeting when he goes in to make atonement in the Holy Place, until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself, for his household, and for all the assembly of Israel. 18 And he shall go out to the altar that is before the Lord, and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and some of the blood of the goat, and put it on the horns of the altar all around. 19 Then he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times, cleanse it, and consecrate it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.

. 30 For on that day the priest shall make atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. 31 It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever. 32 And the priest, who is anointed and consecrated to minister as priest in his father’s place, shall make atonement, and put on the linen clothes, the holy garments; 33 then he shall make atonement for the Holy Sanctuary, and he shall make atonement for the tabernacle of meeting and for the altar, and he shall make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly. 34 This shall be an everlasting statute for you, to make atonement for the children of Israel, for all their sins, once a year.” And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.


Can you explain what once a year all these animals had to die to make atonement for the sins of the people to CLEANSE them of these sins?

or will you just continue to mock and belittle because you KNOW deep inside your wrong. and have no answer?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, Israel was to be a holy nation. As such atonement was required to maintain that holy connection...in the OT as a marker, until Christ. Forgiveness is NOT about holiness, but rather about righteousness.

God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins...as we repent. But atonement in the NT is about being reconciled to God...not just forgiven.

The blood of Jesus is about holiness. It is the body (flesh) of Jesus that represents righteousness. We are to eat His Body and drink His blood...meaning we are to pursue righteousness through obedience to His words AND enter INTO Him through a full surrender into being translated to be with Him WHERE He is.

When we abide in Him that is through the blood. When He abides in us...that is through eating His flesh (obedience).

Jesus said...

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoso eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is further explained this way..

56 He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him.

Read my last post

It WAS about forgiveness of sin.

Your wrong my friend..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I've been thinking about this video, and the full one over the last few days. This is what I understand so far, from also studying through scripture to learn more. Sin separates us from God, for God is Holy. The OT animal sacrifices were always temporary until the next year, where it had to be done again, and again. It also made it harder to have a relationship with God? With Jesus shedding his blood, it finally made it possible to approach God as he wanted, as the blood "covers and reconciles" us to Him. Allowing us to worship God in spirit? I'm thinking also of Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan women, where she pointed out the Jews worshiped God in Jerusalem. Then Jesus telling her a time would soon come with believers worshiping God in spirit, and not relying on a certain location.

Yes.

We were dead. and a priest had to once a year enter the holy place and make reconciliation for the sin of the people. to cleanse them

But through Jesus, Who with one sacrifice offered his own blood. who for all time made reconciliation for our sin and redeemed us to himself as a holy people through the righteousness of his son.

being born again through faith.. from death to life..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OK, OK, ....don't hog the mirror. Let someone else self-reflect.

Obviously, honesty is not a flower that grows in everyone's garden.

I don;t have a mirror my friend.

I am not pushing for people to look at me

I am not looking to God and say look at me and my holiness

thats you.

stop ignoring this basic fact my friend.

 

[Episkopos]

Read my last post

It WAS about forgiveness of sin.

Your wrong my friend..

You have been fooled by a translation. It's called the heresy of "orthodoxy"...or what bible "scholars" want you to believe. Do you follow Christ...or religious scholars?

It's the original bible that is inspired not the translation.

Get yourself a concordance. Where it says "forgiveness" the Greek word is "aphesis" (freedom) as I have been trying to explain to you in some detail. Don't learn anything...as you wish. Instead complain and gnash your teeth on judgment day using English translations as an excuse.

Common sense is not a flower that grows in everyone's garden.

The Hebrew equivalent to the Greek aphesis is "deror דרור"...which is only translated as "freedom". If you had a little diligence you would confirm the POWER of the gospel that frees us from sin...not just forgive ongoing sins. Learn something that goes beyond a superficial reading...and discover the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

How to use common sense and a little diligence in bible study.

When Jesus began to preach the gospel, He turned to Is. 61:1 to read in the synagogue. What language was the scroll written in? Not English...not Greek. No, it was Hebrew. Do we have record of that passage in Hebrew? YES!

Can we look up what He said using a concordance? YES!

Do we love Jesus and the truth enough to make the effort to investigate His words?



NO!!!! (Actually a few of us have..and we are hated for doing so. Too much truth for the masses.)

 

[Behold]

That's not true. There is no FREEDOM from sin without the shedding of blood.

How is your book of Mormon doing?

So....

You meant to say..

"without the shedding of blood there is no remission... (Forgiveness), of sin"

See, in the OT, the remission, was conditional on an animal sacrifice, and this was a Temporary BLOOD Sacrifice Solution.

But, now, there is a New Covenant that is written in the Blood ATONEMENT, who is Jesus on The Cross.

This is..."Jesus is the ONE TIME.....Eternal Sacrifice for sin".....

"Eternal" Sacrifice, is remission, forever........ = Forgiven forever, = every born again believer.

-
KJ21
And by the law almost all things are purged with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
ASV
And according to the law, I may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.
AMP
In fact under the Law almost everything is cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness [neither release from sin and its guilt, nor cancellation of the merited punishment].
AMPC
[In fact] under the Law almost everything is purified by means of blood, and without the shedding of blood there is neither release from sin and its guilt nor the remission of the due and merited punishment for sins.
BRG
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
CSB

 

[Behold]

. Then Jesus telling her a time would soon come with believers worshiping God in spirit, and not relying on a certain location.

The way we worship God in Spirit, is to be born again Spiritually Into God.

So, when we have this spiritual union with God, we are " IN Christ".... and so, our worship is FROM that Status, as born again.

That is the "time that is coming..."" = that Jesus was prophesying
It came.
Jesus on the Cross has made it possible for us to be joined to God SPIRITUALLY, and from this Spiritual Union, we are "in Christ", and our worship is from this eternal Sonship status.

Unbelievers are not spiritually joined to God, so they are talking to God from their FLESH, as there is no spiritual union until we are BORN AGAIN, into Spiritual Union as "in Christ" and "one with God'>

 

[Ritajanice]

When we abide in Him that is through the blood. When He abides in us...that is through eating His flesh (obedience).

We abide in the Holy Spirit...he abides in us, when we have been birthed in the Spirit....

When He abides in us.....that is through eating his flesh????....

We must be “ Born Again “!!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have been fooled by a translation. It's called the heresy of "orthodoxy"...or what bible "scholars" want you to believe. Do you follow Christ...or religious scholars?

It's the original bible that is inspired not the translation.

Get yourself a concordance. Where it says "forgiveness" the Greek word is "aphesis" (freedom) as I have been trying to explain to you in some detail. Don't learn anything...as you wish. Instead complain and gnash your teeth on judgment day using English translations as an excuse.

Common sense is not a flower that grows in everyone's garden.

The Hebrew equivalent to the Greek aphesis is "deror דרור"...which is only translated as "freedom". If you had a little diligence you would confirm the POWER of the gospel that frees us from sin...not just forgive ongoing sins. Learn something that goes beyond a superficial reading...and discover the truth.

I feel so bad for you And @Laurina , whom you are leading astray

The hebrew word atonement is Kipper.

It means to make amends, to appease, to atone, to cover over, to pacify.

it says this is WHY the animal sacrifice and the blood was used to make ATONEMENT for the sin of the people.

You trying to deflect from the truth of the word.. You can not even show us WHAT GOD said in Lev 16 says..

You can ignore what God said in that passage all you want. and try to deflect.. But thats on you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How to use common sense and a little diligence in bible study.

When Jesus began to preach the gospel, He turned to Is. 61:1 to read in the synagogue. What language was the scroll written in? Not English...not Greek. No, it was Hebrew. Do we have record of that passage in Hebrew? YES!

Can we look up what He said using a concordance? YES!

Do we love Jesus and the truth enough to make the effort to investigate His words?



NO!!!! (Actually a few of us have..and we are hated for doing so. Too much truth for the masses.)

Once again I point you to lev 16 and the day of atonement

Either explain how the sacrifices of animals and the shedding of blood for remission and atonment of the sin of the people is done in your view.

or show us and the wqorld you do not have any idea what it means and your lack of discussing it proves it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We abide in the Holy Spirit...he abides in us, when we have been birthed in the Spirit....

When He abides in us.....that is through eating his flesh????....

We must be “ Born Again “!!!

eating his flesh is eating the words the spirit came to say (the gospel)

and Jesus said whoever eat his flesh will NEVER DIE.

yet according to Epi. we can eat his flesh, in fact must continue to eat this food which as Jesus said "endures forever" or we will still die

in other words. Jesus lied and offered something (eternal life) he never intended to offer.

 

[Behold]

When we abide in Him that is through the blood. When He abides in us...that is through eating His flesh (obedience).

Is this another Book of Mormon teaching?
As its not true, and its not NT.

Listen..,. "eathing the Flesh of Christ" is to BELIEVE in Jesus.

We are make partakers of SALVATION, "the eating", by Faith.

The Faith that God accepts.... is the Eating of the Blood and Body, of Jesus.

Communion is symbolic of BELIEVING, as both are taken inside you, with the Communion by mouth and BELIEVING is in the Heart.

Obedience to Christ, is not anything but works.

You can be an obedient disciple of Christ, and be this one after you die... "Depart from me.... i never KNEW YOU">
Jesus said one time..."If you keep my word(s) you are my disciple", but He didnt say, you are my Bride.
And that is because to become The Bride of Christ is based on THIS :

Jesus said.. "you must be BORN.. again".

So those "disciples" were doing Christ's works, but were not Of God, ....they were not BORN AGAIN.

Being Born again, is proof you have "eaten"... by Faith, and taking communion is symbolic of having BELIEVED and become God's own.

 

[Episkopos]

We abide in the Holy Spirit...he abides in us, when we have been birthed in the Spirit....

When He abides in us.....that is through eating his flesh????....

We must be “ Born Again “!!!

Just wondering....every time you say the words "born again"...do your eyes roll into the back of your head? Is there some kind of repetitive trigger mechanism that brings about a salivation or something?

Indoctrination is NOT advisable.

Try looking at what is posted and try engaging that...with a sober mind.

Good grief!