Quick-Vid of Forgiveness vs Atonement

[Episkopos]

I thought to make a very short video (under 1 minute) of a very crucial doctrine, that of atonement vis à vis forgiveness. There is a link to the full video for those interested in further exploration of the subject. This short sound-bite or sample should allow for easy access to a specific discussion on the subject. Have a listen!

 

[Episkopos]

Seeing that so many have been indoctrinated into a religious ideology for so many years, and seeing this video clip is so short....less than a minute...playing it 7 times in a row can quickly remedy all those years of religious conditioning...and all in less than 7 minutes.

It's worth a shot!

 

[Nancy]

Seeing that so many have been indoctrinated into a religious ideology for so many years, and seeing this video clip is so short....less than a minute...playing it 7 times in a row can quickly remedy all those years of religious conditioning...and all in less than 7 minutes.

It's worth a shot!

Okay, gonna give it a shot!

 

[Nancy]

So, we can be justified yet, not holy or saved. True, many unsaved out there who "do right" by others.

Still not getting the difference between Jesus forgiving one who humbles themselves and repents, and atonement. Holiness I CAN see the difference yet, the sinner who beat his chest asking forgiveness seems to me, The Lord DID atone for his sins as when forgiven, He forgets them. I'm trying to see the difference Epi yet...not getting through

Isn't atonement also the cleansing as, the sin was taken away? We don't know what this sinner did after going home justified...he didn't know if his sins were even forgiven, he simply asked for mercy and forgiveness.

What could this sinner have done to have his sins not only forgiven, but also atoned for? The example was before the cross (I believe)?

This is like a puzzle, lol.

 

[Episkopos]

So, we can be justified yet, not holy or saved. True, many unsaved out there who "do right" by others.

Still not getting the difference between Jesus forgiving one who humbles themselves and repents, and atonement. Holiness I CAN see the difference yet, the sinner who beat his chest asking forgiveness seems to me, The Lord DID atone for his sins as when forgiven, He forgets them. I'm trying to see the difference Epi yet...not getting through

The difference between forgiving and cleansing? If you forgive me for something....that doesn't make me clean from sin. People walk in their own power and mess up. We are to forgive others their sins...not cleanse them. So they remain in their own power even after being forgiven. When we are cleansed from sin...we are walking at a level beyond sin.

Isn't atonement also the cleansing as, the sin was taken away? We don't know what this sinner did after going home justified...he didn't know if his sins were even forgiven, he simply asked for mercy and forgiveness.

Exactly. The sinful nature was still there. He wasn't cleansed from his sinful nature....just forgiven. So then if he continues to indulge his sinful nature...he will need to repent again.

What could this sinner have done to have his sins not only forgiven, but also atoned for? The example was before the cross (I believe)?

This is like a puzzle, lol.

Every year a goat was sacrificed at Yom Kippur for the nation of Israel. That was a marker until Christ. Now all believers in Christ are Israel...God's people.

The Publican had no way of being personally atoned for before Christ. But we can be personally atoned for by entering into Christ...to be pure as He is pure. As He is so are we in this world. In Him is no sin.

This is easier to understand the other way...that God translates His saints into a higher walk in the kingdom realm...where there is no sin.

Otherwise we are still at the level of walking in our own power...where we will sin. So then if we are merciful to others...then God will go easy on us.

 

[Nancy]

Well yes, it all boils down to His righteous judgement, everytime AMEN!. A heart and motive matter... Thank you!

 

[Robert Pate]

Seeing that so many have been indoctrinated into a religious ideology for so many years, and seeing this video clip is so short....less than a minute...playing it 7 times in a row can quickly remedy all those years of religious conditioning...and all in less than 7 minutes.

It's worth a shot!

There is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood, Hebrews 9:22. It is Christ's atonement, not our attainment. Your video is not true.

 

[Episkopos]

There is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood, Hebrews 9:22. It is Christ's atonement, not our attainment. Your video is not true.

That's not true. There is no FREEDOM from sin without the shedding of blood. We are to freely forgive just as God does.

There is this thing called a Concordance. Check out the word Aphesis.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's not true. There is no FREEDOM from sin without the shedding of blood. We are to freely forgive just as God does.

There is this thing called a Concordance. Check out the word Aphesis.

Unless one is born again, He can not see the kingdom of God.

One will not be born again without the atonement of the cross.

Jesus made this clear in John 3.

why do you want to be like the pharisee pumping his chest.. and not like the tax collector..

 

[Azim]

Unless one is born again, He can not see the kingdom of God.

One will not be born again without the atonement of the cross.

Jesus made this clear in John 3.

why do you want to be like the pharisee pumping his chest.. and not like the tax collector..

How was Jesus able to forgive people before He went to the cross? If God required him to shed his blood first on the cross, in order to forgive people, that would mean Jesus was merely handing out rain checks of forgiveness, which only became valid after the cross.

 

[Nancy]

How was Jesus able to forgive people before He went to the cross? If God required him to shed his blood first on the cross, in order to forgive people, that would mean Jesus was merely handing out rain checks of forgiveness, which only became valid after the cross.

Matthew 9:4–6​

4 But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? 5 For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise and walk’? 6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—“Rise, pick up your bed and go home.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How was Jesus able to forgive people before He went to the cross? If God required him to shed his blood first on the cross, in order to forgive people, that would mean Jesus was merely handing out rain checks of forgiveness, which only became valid after the cross.

This prety much sums it up..Although I would not call it a rain check..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Matthew 9:4–6​

4 But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? 5 For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise and walk’? 6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—“Rise, pick up your bed and go home.”

God is outside of time when you look at all time of mankind, only a few seconds has passed in Gods time

 

[Episkopos]

How was Jesus able to forgive people before He went to the cross? If God required him to shed his blood first on the cross, in order to forgive people, that would mean Jesus was merely handing out rain checks of forgiveness, which only became valid after the cross.

...or a "reign" check!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

when someone makes fun of the thing that brings us to eternity.

it just shows how low they will go

 

[Episkopos]

This prety much sums it up..Although I would not call it a rain check..

You just don't get it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You just don't get it.

Oh I get it

Without the shedding of Blood there can be no forgiveness.

Your trying to gain forgiveness in means other than the cross.

Good luck

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You just don't get it.

its amazing all those innocent animals that lost their lives in sacrifice.

they mean nothing to you.

God said those must be done for forgiveness.

You do not get it..

 

[Episkopos]

its amazing all those innocent animals that lost their lives in sacrifice.

they mean nothing to you.

God said those must be done for forgiveness.

You do not get it..

You seem to care more about animals than Jesus. This has nothing to do with forgiveness....it's about atonement...holiness.

Unfortunately your mental wall stops from growing beyond your sorry present state,

help yourself...watch the quick vid I provided.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You seem to care more about animals than Jesus. This has nothing to do with forgiveness....it's about atonement...holiness.

Unfortunately your mental wall stops from growing beyond your sorry present state,

help yourself...watch the quick vid I provided.

lol

If your going to stand in front of God with your own holiness.

You might as well make a ticket to hell now.. because thats where your headed

I did not make it about animals. GOD DID.

Those animals, which were required for atonement, (even though they did not achieve it) symbolised the lamb of God. who shed his own blood..

You can Mock Christ all you want. You will be the one to suffer