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Davy

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Except that in Christ, no one dies. You teach against your own verses, by claiming those in Christ can actually die in the 1000 year reign of Christ. The first resurrection came first, because it was in the morning. It had to happen or there would be no one born at all during the 1000 years. Those who are beheaded are resurrected in Christ, but no glorified bodies. They live and give birth to fallen humans. They will not die, but will not get glorified bodies until the end of the 1000 years. They live on earth and cannot go to Paradise, just like us today who are in Christ. We have children who are fallen descendants of Adam. They have to decide for themselves to be in Christ. But being in Christ now, we still have bodies of flesh. So the same with those in Revelations first resurrection. They are still just like us. They are not reincarnated. Just brought back to life, with their heads back on their own bodies.

I haven't taught against my own understanding, that is another one of YOUR LIES, simply because God did not give you to understand these things, and it's very obvious too!

All I have to say is the "second death", which is from God's written Word about those of the "resurrection of damnation" that will be still subject to perishing in the lake of fire at the end of Christ's thousand years reign, as written.

Rev 2:11
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

KJV

Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

KJV

Rev 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

KJV

Rev 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

KJV

If some listened to your false Jew tradition, they wouldn't be taught how the wicked will perish at that "second death", which ONLY will happen at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign! Let's see, duh..., how will the wicked get to that future lake of fire?
 

Davy

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I do not reject Ecclesiastes.

What did you say about me changing what I believe, which of course is a lie?

That's what you just did, because in a earlier post you said that Ecclesiastes was like a treatise of mysticism by Solomon, suggesting it shouldn't be trusted.

You said:
"Ecclesiastes is mysticism. Yes, God allowed Solomon's wisdom to be a book in the Bible."

It's not mysticism. You're just making excuses to not agree with the Scriptures, because what Solomon showed about flesh death aligns with what Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28, another Scripture I have never seen you address. (You probably think Jesus was teaching mysticism with it too.)
 

Davy

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Hell is not in Heaven. Paradise was never in the earth. Hell was never in Heaven.

For the Jews who love their traditions, no, hades is not in the heavenly. But per God's Word, it most definitely is...

Rev 12:7-8
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

KJV

What? Their place, "in heaven"? YES! not in the earth, not under the earth, not on another planet, not hiding in the sky, but in heaven.

Until that war, in the heavenly is where Satan's and his angels' "place" is (Greek topos, meaning spot, occupancy, location, home).
 

Davy

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Hell is not in Heaven. Paradise was never in the earth. Hell was never in Heaven.

Eden = paradise in the Greek Septuagint Bible, like I said.

EDEN
("delight"). Paradise = the Septuagint translation of "garden," a park and pleasure ground. From the Zendic pairidaeza, a hedging round. In N.W. Mesopotamia an Eden is mentioned near the Tigris (2 Kings 19:12; Isa 37:12; Ezek 27:23). Another, in Coelosyria, near Damascus (Amos 1:5). The primitive Eden was somewhere in the locality containing the conjoined Euphrates and the Tigris (= Hiddekel) which branch off northward into those two rivers, and southward branch into two channels again below Bassera, before failing into the sea, Gihon the E. channel, and Pison the W. Havilah, near the W. channel, would thus be N.E. Arabia; and Cush (= Ethiopia), near the E. channel, would be Kissia, Chuzestan, or Susiana. The united livers are called the Shat-el-Arab.
(from Fausset's Bible Dictionary, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1998 by Biblesoft)

Rev 2:7
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

KJV

You don't read much of the New Testament Scriptures, do you??
 

Keraz

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You only refuted it in your own mind by your disbelief of God's Word about it.

Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 revealed it regarding the "last trump" event. He said we shall not all 'sleep', but we shall ALL be 'changed'.

Paul taught there the resurrection body type is a "spiritual body", what he also called the "image of the heavenly". It is NOT a flesh type body. And it is ONLY made immortal for those who believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ at His 2nd coming.

But for the wicked, their spiritual body still with a 'mortal soul' will still be in a 'liable to die' condition, subject to the "second death".


1 Cor 15:53
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

KJV
So then you think the 'last trump' is when Jesus returns? Will trumpets not be allowed during the Millennium?
Your belief of a general resurrection and people becoming immortal at the Return, is wrong and cannot happen.

Again; I proved that Paul's prophecy in 1 Cor 15:50-56 is about the GWT Judgment - AFTER the Millennium. Only then, is Death no more. Rev 21:4
All the people in the Millennium will be mortal humans. At the end, when Satan is released for a short season; everyone he 'seduces' will die by fire from heaven. The faithful ones will then receive immortality and go into Eternity with God.
 

Timtofly

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No it doesn't. You are using falseness to try and protect your false Jewish traditions of men!

Reincarnation is actually... what many deceived Jews believe in! The idea of a fleshy resurrection is what most of them believe, which is the idea of reincarnation, being born into a NEW flesh body!

That is NOT what I have been proclaiming directly from God's written Word at all, and you well know it, you deceiver!
If you had agreed with Paul, I would never have quoted you. If you cannot correct a small mistake in your ideology, I cannot help you. If you think you know more than what the Bible states, then I may be a deciever. Calling me a deciever is not correcting me, it is just being abusive, and shows you cannot take correction well. When you say the dead in hell can get a different body, one that you cannot even show with any verse, other than the one you quoted, I have to question this kind of made up body. It is the very definition of being re carnated into a new body of flesh just for the purpose of populating the earth, and creating nations. That is not biblical and the dead in hell do not come back to populate the earth. They may come back and go into the new heavens and earth, but we are talking about a 1000 year period prior to the new heavens and earth.

How is the book of Revelation the false Jewish traditions of men? The book of Revelation explains many things about the whole Bible, even the first 4 chapters of Genesis. Revelation is the end time revelation of all things. Even the deception of Satan and him as the man against the Torah in 2 Thessalonians 2. We are currently living out the book of Revelation and God is revealing things, if any have an ear to hear, or even willing. Most are just stuck in a rut, and enjoy their own understanding. God’s knowledge is foreign to them. Or they think they cannot be changed or even want change.
 

Timtofly

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Eden = paradise in the Greek Septuagint Bible, like I said.

EDEN
("delight"). Paradise = the Septuagint translation of "garden," a park and pleasure ground. From the Zendic pairidaeza, a hedging round. In N.W. Mesopotamia an Eden is mentioned near the Tigris (2 Kings 19:12; Isa 37:12; Ezek 27:23). Another, in Coelosyria, near Damascus (Amos 1:5). The primitive Eden was somewhere in the locality containing the conjoined Euphrates and the Tigris (= Hiddekel) which branch off northward into those two rivers, and southward branch into two channels again below Bassera, before failing into the sea, Gihon the E. channel, and Pison the W. Havilah, near the W. channel, would thus be N.E. Arabia; and Cush (= Ethiopia), near the E. channel, would be Kissia, Chuzestan, or Susiana. The united livers are called the Shat-el-Arab.
(from Fausset's Bible Dictionary, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1998 by Biblesoft)

Rev 2:7
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

KJV

You don't read much of the New Testament Scriptures, do you??
How does this prove hell is in heaven? I did not say Paradise was never "on" the earth. I said Paradise was never in the earth as in sheol. Caves are in the earth not really on the earth. If I had said under the earth, would you have accused me of being a flat earther? Where do you think death and hell are?
 

Timtofly

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I haven't taught against my own understanding, that is another one of YOUR LIES, simply because God did not give you to understand these things, and it's very obvious too!

All I have to say is the "second death", which is from God's written Word about those of the "resurrection of damnation" that will be still subject to perishing in the lake of fire at the end of Christ's thousand years reign, as written.

Rev 2:11
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

KJV

Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

KJV

Rev 20:14
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

KJV

Rev 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

KJV

If some listened to your false Jew tradition, they wouldn't be taught how the wicked will perish at that "second death", which ONLY will happen at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign! Let's see, duh..., how will the wicked get to that future lake of fire?
Revelation 20:14, you already answered. Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
 

Davy

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So then you think the 'last trump' is when Jesus returns? Will trumpets not be allowed during the Millennium?
Your belief of a general resurrection and people becoming immortal at the Return, is wrong and cannot happen.

There you go again with wrongly assigning immortality to everyone, even in the very same post you quoted me where I showed the wicked won't be immortal, but subject to the "second death" like Rev.20 reveals.
 

Davy

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If you had agreed with Paul, I would never have quoted you. If you cannot correct a small mistake in your ideology, I cannot help you.

There's another one of your LIES you just made up. Sorry, but your vain attempt to try and destroy my credibility just ain't gonna' work. I showed the Scripture as written of what KIND of body Apostle Paul taught the resurrection is, and you refuse to believe it as written...

1 Cor 15:35-37
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
KJV

1 Cor 15:42-44
2 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

KJV

1 Cor 15:46-50
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

There, so much for your false Jewish reincarnation theory you tried to slap on me!
 

Davy

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How does this prove hell is in heaven? I did not say Paradise was never "on" the earth. I said Paradise was never in the earth as in sheol. Caves are in the earth not really on the earth. If I had said under the earth, would you have accused me of being a flat earther? Where do you think death and hell are?

Once again, you stick to Jewish traditions instead of heeding the simple New Testament Scripture...

Luke 16:19-26
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.'

KJV

That was Jesus revealing that layout in the heavenly. The rich man in hell... was able to SEE and SPEAK across that great gulf fixed border in the heavenly. That means BOTH places were in the heavenly. The abode of Hades (hell in this case) is IN the heavenly dimension. Thinking hell is in our material dimension we live in is like some kindergarten story a kid is told!
 

Davy

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Revelation 20:14, you already answered. Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

Already answered what? All I hear from you is a disregarding of the Scriptures, especially what I showed about the wicked dead being raised and subject to the "second death". That proves what I've said about the "resurrection of damnation" that you deny.

Acts 24:14-15
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
KJV

Did you not know that through God's Old Testament prophets the idea of the "unjust" having a resurrection was written of also? What do you think my Lord Jesus was talking about on the day of His return per John 5:28-29?

The terrible mistake you and many others make is thinking that the mere 'idea' of resurrection means 'automatic' Salvation through Christ Jesus. It does not. It only means putting on a body of incorruption, the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught. It does NOT mean automatic Salvation.
 

Davy

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This borders on reincarnation. It is giving a fallen soul another chance in a spiritual body. This is not about living on earth. It is the resurrection at the end of the day, when those resurrected are cast into the lake of fire. Revelation says only those who refused to have the mark, who were beheaded can live again during the 1000 years. They are resurrected at the first resurrection, the morning of the same Lord's Day. They will not die, but their children will still be fallen Adam's descendants. Their own descendants will be turned by Satan at the end of the Lord's Day. They will populate the earth for 1000 years. God does not use reincarnation. That does not exist, but a false teaching of humans.

So, I'll reply to this LIE again.

There is NO SECOND CHANCE. That is man's doctrine. Nor did I imply there would be one with those of the "resurrection of damnation".

What people like Timothy here believes is that God is going to destroy even the unbelieving Jews that He blinded away from The Gospel so it would go to the Gentiles (Rom.11).

That would be destroying souls who were 'deceived' and spiritually blinded even BY GOD'S OWN HAND! Where's their accountability for making their own... decision to believe or not believe?

God is not going to destroy any soul that had NO chance to hear and believe The Gospel. This is why in Christ's future Millennial reign, His elect will include the role of priests and because teaching is one of the jobs of the priest. And it will be those souls who were deceived and blinded by God that will 'hear' The Gospel, and be their 1st CHANCE to believe or not believe.
 

Timtofly

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There's another one of your LIES you just made up. Sorry, but your vain attempt to try and destroy my credibility just ain't gonna' work. I showed the Scripture as written of what KIND of body Apostle Paul taught the resurrection is, and you refuse to believe it as written...

1 Cor 15:35-37
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
KJV

1 Cor 15:42-44
2 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

KJV

1 Cor 15:46-50
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

There, so much for your false Jewish reincarnation theory you tried to slap on me!
So you can change your mind. I do not try anything. Nor do I go around slapping people. So, no I do not want the credit.
 

Timtofly

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Once again, you stick to Jewish traditions instead of heeding the simple New Testament Scripture...

Luke 16:19-26
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.'

KJV

That was Jesus revealing that layout in the heavenly. The rich man in hell... was able to SEE and SPEAK across that great gulf fixed border in the heavenly. That means BOTH places were in the heavenly. The abode of Hades (hell in this case) is IN the heavenly dimension. Thinking hell is in our material dimension we live in is like some kindergarten story a kid is told!
No it is under the earth, where God says it is. If you think that there are more than 3 dimensions, Satan has you deceived. There is one reality and in our condition God has put a veil over our eyes, so we cannot see. It does not matter any way. Abraham's bosom stopped existing, at the death of Jesus Christ.
 

Timtofly

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Already answered what? All I hear from you is a disregarding of the Scriptures, especially what I showed about the wicked dead being raised and subject to the "second death". That proves what I've said about the "resurrection of damnation" that you deny.

Acts 24:14-15
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
KJV

Did you not know that through God's Old Testament prophets the idea of the "unjust" having a resurrection was written of also? What do you think my Lord Jesus was talking about on the day of His return per John 5:28-29?

The terrible mistake you and many others make is thinking that the mere 'idea' of resurrection means 'automatic' Salvation through Christ Jesus. It does not. It only means putting on a body of incorruption, the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught. It does NOT mean automatic Salvation.
Revelation 20:14
"And death, and hell were cast into the lake of fire: this is the second death."
 

Timtofly

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So, I'll reply to this LIE again.

There is NO SECOND CHANCE. That is man's doctrine. Nor did I imply there would be one with those of the "resurrection of damnation".

What people like Timothy here believes is that God is going to destroy even the unbelieving Jews that He blinded away from The Gospel so it would go to the Gentiles (Rom.11).

That would be destroying souls who were 'deceived' and spiritually blinded even BY GOD'S OWN HAND! Where's their accountability for making their own... decision to believe or not believe?

God is not going to destroy any soul that had NO chance to hear and believe The Gospel. This is why in Christ's future Millennial reign, His elect will include the role of priests and because teaching is one of the jobs of the priest. And it will be those souls who were deceived and blinded by God that will 'hear' The Gospel, and be their 1st CHANCE to believe or not believe.
What is it then? Living or dead people? The only dead people with a bodily resurrection currently dead. That means right this minute. Those dead people are only "bodily" raised at the Great White Throne judgment. Revelation 20:11-15
11 Next I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, both great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
13 The sea gave up the dead in it; and Death and Sh’ol gave up the dead in them; and they were judged, each according to what he had done.
14 Then Death and Sh’ol were hurled into the lake of fire. This is the second death — the lake of fire.
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was hurled into the lake of fire.

It is a resurrection because it is the second one at the end of the 1000 year period.

The first one was in Revelation 20:4-6

4 Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them received authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for testifying about Yeshua and proclaiming the Word of God, also those who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands. They came to life and ruled with the Messiah for a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is anyone who has a part in the first resurrection; over him the second death has no power. On the contrary, they will be cohanim of God and of the Messiah, and they will rule with him for the thousand years.
 

Davy

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So you can change your mind. I do not try anything. Nor do I go around slapping people. So, no I do not want the credit.

You are a liar and a hypocrite. I'm done trying to converse with you. Welcome to my Ignore List.
 

Timtofly

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You are a liar and a hypocrite. I'm done trying to converse with you. Welcome to my Ignore List.
I cannot deny being a liar and hypocrite. However, using that as an excuse to listen to Satan instead of God, will not get you very far. Most people ignore the truth of God's Word. Since I am not posting myself, I am not offended. Just pointing out the things, I am being a witness to.