Rapture, Prophecy, Church, and the Nation of Israel- Last Generation
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The word 'heaven' is mentioned in Rev. 4:1. And John and others are still there in Rev. 7. And Rev. 7:9-17 is an heavenly scene about the Throne of Christ . So you have people in heaven, the Church who has been raptured, and you have multitudes dying on the earth during the tribulation and going to heaven, and you have Israel being sealed on the earth.keras said:
Just read 7:4-8. The Jews will be those of all the tribes of Israel.
Stranger
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
As you and many others are locked into the idea of a rapture removal to heaven, when the Lord's Day of wrath happens and you are still on earth, only then the realization will dawn on you all, you were wrong. Many will renounce their faith, I pray you will stand firm on that Day .
The scenario you promote above, simply doesn't fit with what the Bible actually says. Don't you know that as a Christian, you are an Israelite of God?
The scenario you promote above, simply doesn't fit with what the Bible actually says. Don't you know that as a Christian, you are an Israelite of God?
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
False test.keras said:
John was previously translated up to Heaven in Rev 4:1, and recorded everything he saw. All the entities and the Throne that he describes the Great Multitude is before, is the same. Their location has not changed. Furthermore, there is no prophecy which has the Father, the four Living Creatures, the 24 Elders, and the multitude of Angels making their Dwelling Place on this old earth. That is reserved for the New Earth. There is prophecy in Ezekiel where Jesus, our Lord, is in the Temple in Jerusalem; but not who is arrayed in Revelation 7.
So the false test of a single word being absent does not mean they aren't where they will be, not only for the end-times, but even through Millennium.
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
Right. Jesus is ON the earth prior to the Harvest from the clouds.
Can I help you?n2thelight said:
Stranger said:
You have people in Heaven because they died,not because of some rapture....
How do you say people dying during the tribe and getting to Heaven, yet you don't understand that people who have died throughout time are in Heaven
All who have died in Christ comes back with Him,at the 2nd coming period!!!!
What rapturists fail to understand is the earth is our home, we are not going anywhere, Christ is coming here.
As Zechariah 14:1-4 documents, “the day of the Lord cometh… And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.” This verse documents Christ is not only returning to the Mount of Olives, but upon His return there shall be a great earthquake which divides that mountain. Let us further document Christ’s return in,
Revelation 11:13
13 “And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.”
What hour? The hour of temptation which is the Tribulation of the Anti-Christ, Satan. What city? Jerusalem, where the two witnesses will be killed and arise after three and a half days (Revelation 11:3-12). This event ends the Tribulation and triggers the great earthquake in Jerusalem as Christ descends from Heaven. “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever,” (Revelation 11:15). Once the seventh trumpet sounds there shall be time no more. Therefore settle it in your minds, Christ is coming here at the end of the Tribulation.
To expand on this point, Christ must remain in Heaven until His appointed time which is the seventh trumpet as we just learned. Turn your Bibles with me to,
Acts 3:20-21
20 “And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:”
21 “Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
These two verses alone document there is no rapture. God’s Word has just stated, Christ must remain in Heaven until all prophecy has been fulfilled, He cannot leave to rapture the church away. In the prior verses, we documented Christ will return to the Mount of Olives at the end of the Tribulation and not a moment before (Zechariah 14:1-4, Acts 1:11-12). It is Satan’s message that he will come to fly you away, if you believe this false doctrine you will be harvested out of season as Christ warned us of.
Now let us analyze a few verses typically used by those who believe in a rapture. Many point to 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as proof of their premise. However, in order to make sure we are “rightly dividing the word of truth,” (2 Timothy 2:15) let us start with verse 13 to identify the subject at hand.
I Thessalonians 4:13-14
13 “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.”
The subject is where are the dead. If we believe Christ is risen, then we should understand those who have passed on before us are with our Father in Heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8). Upon the return of Christ, He will bring those who sleep in Him back to earth with Him.
I Thessalonians 4:15
15 “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.”
Those who remain alive at the return of Jesus Christ cannot “prevent” (Strong’s word: 5348), which is to say “precede” those who have passed on before us. Why? We are still in a flesh body while they have died in the flesh and have already risen into their spiritual body with Christ. We should note, our spiritual body has mass, it has substance, but it is not corruptible, it does not die (1 Corinthians 15:35-55). Further, Angels and men ate each others food as documented in Genesis 19:1-3 and Psalms 78:24-25.
I Thessalonians 4:16
16 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”
The Trump of God is the last trump, the seventh. “In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished,” (Revelation 10:7). When this trumpet sounds there will be time no more as Christ will have returned and His feet will be firmly placed upon the Mount of Olives. Remember, we just documented in Acts 3:20-21 that Christ must remain in Heaven until the fulfillment of all prophecy which occurs at the sounding of the seventh trumpet.
However, we must understand the trumpets are in chronological order, six comes before seven. At the sixth trumpet, which is Satan’s trumpet, he will be cast from Heaven to earth along with his angels (Revelation 12:9). Satan will act as the Lamb to deceive the nations into believing he is Christ returned. If you are entangled in the lie called the rapture you will end up worshipping Satan believing he is Jesus Christ returned to rapture you away. This is one of Satan’s many wicked lies.
I Thessalonians 4:17
17 “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Now we have a clear picture. We that are alive and remain at the seventh trumpet which is the return of Christ will instantly be changed into our spiritual bodies to meet Him and those (in Christ) who have passed on before us. The word “air” (109) in this verse means “breathe.” This is the breath of life which is our spirit and soul, this is what God breathed into Adam (Genesis 2:7). In essence, this is the change of bodies from flesh to spirit as Paul told us would occur “in the twinkling of an eye” at the last trump. There are only seven trumps my friends, this is the event of the seventh trump (I Corinthians 15:51-56). Further, if you are not in a spiritual body, then Jesus has not yet returned, no matter what miracles are being displayed upon the earth!
Let us now take a look at the word “cloud” as used in the verse we just read. Turn your Bibles with me to,
Hebrews 12:1
1 “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,”
Every Christian understands this verse is a figure of speech which references a multitude of people being gathered together. Yet, they let the word “cloud” confound them in 1 Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24. What have we learned about the return of Christ? We discovered that Christ is bringing back with Him those (believers) who have passed on before us. Christ is bringing back a multitude of people, a cloud of people as Paul would describe it in these verses. Do not let this be a mystery to you.
We are not flying away. Remember, Jesus is returning one time to the Mount of Olives which occurs after the Tribulation of Satan, the Anti-Christ. The earth is where Christ will reign with the Saints for one-thousand years, which is the Lord’s Day also known as the Millennium.
In I Thessalonians 5:1-6, Paul tells us to [SIZE=small]stay awake, be sober and watch[/SIZE]. Had a rapture been a part of God’s plan we would not have been given this warning. Nor would we be told to equip ourselves with “the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil,” (Ephesians 6:10-17). Did it say run and hide or fly away? No! We are to standlike a man or woman of God against Satan. As a matter of fact the oil in our vessels is comprised of the very armour of God. How much oil is in your lamp?
With that said, now let us take a look at Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians.
II Thessalonians 2:1
1 “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,”
The topic is the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we gather together with Him.
II Thessalonians 2:2
2 “That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.”
Paul wrote this second letter to the Thessalonians in order to provide clarity concerning our gathering back to the Lord.
II Thessalonians 2:3
3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
What day shall not come? The Day of the Lord, our gathering back unto Him. What “falling away?” The “falling away” (646) from God’s Word which means, “defection from truth.” Who is the “man of sin”, the “son of perdition“? It is none other than Satan himself, “perdition” means to “perish“, to “die“. Satan is the only one that has been condemned to death by name (Revelation 20:10, Ezekiel 28:18-19).
This verse makes it abundantly clear, the Day of the Lord, His return shall not happen until there is a “defection from truth” which is a defection from one’s professed faith, this is the Great Apostasy. This occurs when Satan, “the man of sin” appears in Jerusalem claiming to be Christ. The whole world including most Christians will stop believing in Jesus Christ and start worshipping Satan as they believe him to be Christ. They believe him to be Christ because of the miracles Satan performs and their lack of understanding of God’s Word (Revelation 13:13-14).
II Thessalonians 2:4
4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
The “son of perdition“, Satan has always wanted to be God as we can read of in Isaiah 14:12-16 where God called him “Lucifer“. Satan’s sin was that he wanted to be God himself and he wants everyone to worship him. He will get the opportunity to play God on the earth before men for a short time when he is cast out of Heaven. Satan being the father of lies and deception will “doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,” (Revelation 13:13) deceiving even ‘if it were possible the very elect‘ (Matthew 24:24). This is why Christ stated, ‘if they say I am here or there believe it not,’(Matthew 24:26-27). Why? When the True Christ appears we will be instantly changed into our spiritual bodies and not one moment before that.
II Thessalonians 2:5-6
5 “Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?”
6 “And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.”
Who will be revealed? Satan and all of his lies will finally be revealed to the entire world. Though it will be one day too late for the world as the appearance of Christ brings this action forth.
II Thessalonians 2:7
7 “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”
The subject in this verse is still Satan. Michael holds Satan in Heaven and he will be the one who casts him out (Revelation 12:7). That is what we are talking about here. He who letteth, (he who holds Satan) will let (will continue to hold Satan) until he (Michael) casts Satan and his angels out of Heaven and unto earth, this is the war in Heaven (Revelation 12:7-9).
II Thessalonians 2:8
8 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:”
What wicked? Satan, who will appear on earth before Christ at the sixth trump, claiming to be Christ as verse four states. Then our Lord will return at the seventh trump to destroy Satan’s reign upon the earth. Remember, there are a total of seven trumps and they are all in order.
II Thessalonians 2:9
9 “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,”
Paul just told you these scriptures are about Satan and even named him so there is no doubt who the scriptures have been referring to. And pay attention to the sequence of events. The coming of Christ is after the lying wonders of Satan. Satan will perform miracles in the sight of men to prove to them he is Christ.
This leaves absolutely no room for a rapture of the church my friends. Quite the contrary, we are not going anywhere. The job of the Saints is to prophesy against the false messiahwho is Satan which will appear on earth before men (Luke 21:12-18).
Matthew 24:29
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
After the Tribulation of those days, which are the days of Anti-Christ. The days when Satan will play his role as Jesus Christ, that is the Tribulation. Christ will not return until after Satan has been cast out of Heaven and is on the earth claiming to be Christ. As documented in II Thessalonians 2:2-4.
Matthew 24:30
30 “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
Once again documenting Christ’s return is after the Tribulation and workings of the false messiah, Satan. We should note, these tribes are not the 144,000 who are sealed before the Tribulation.
God knew long ago that His most precious Word would be distorted by the traditions of man. Turn your Bibles with me to,
2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
And so that time has come. We have multitudes of different denominations teaching various traditions of man which make void the Word of God. These Christians are like a reed shaken in the wind, leaning whichever way the wind blows. Ears that cannot hear God’s Truth, but ears that are quick to listen to the traditions of man, quick to listen to whatever sounds good at the moment. God’s Truth always sounds good for those with eyes to see and ears to hear!
Revelation 4:1
1 “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”
Rapturists believe God is calling the church to Heaven in this verse. Was the voice talking to the church? Absolutely not! The voice from Heaven was talking to John (Revelation 1:1). John was taken to Heaven and shown the future. Christ is not bringing the church to Heaven, Christ is coming here. Wherever God is, Heaven is also.
Revelation 7:1
1 “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.”
After what things? After John witnessed the events of the first six seals. Then we read of the four angels who are holding back the very winds that initiate the Trumpets sounding. You can document this by studying Revelation 8 where the earth, sea and trees are harmed (they are not literally harmed) when the first two Trumpets sound.
Revelation 7:2-3
2 “And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,”
3 “Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”
For every negative there is a positive. While Satan’s mark is known as the Mark of the Beast, God has His own mark called a Seal as this verse just documented. Both are placed in the receivers foreheads which is to say their brain. It is the lie of Satan or truth of God’s Word which is firmly planted in their brains.
The four angels holding the four winds at bay were told by the angel of the east not to release the four winds until the servants of God are sealed. The sealing of God’s servants with His Word is so important the Tribulation cannot begin until it is completed! If God had intended to rapture away the righteous of His flock they would not be here and this requirement would not be in His Word. In essence, this sealing is our spiritual armour of Ephesians 6, the armour we equip ourselves with in order to make a stand against Satan. It is the very oil in our lamps.
If we continue reading Revelation 7:4-8 we will document the 144,000 who are sealed consist of 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. These are the Saints who are delivered up to Satan, not raptured before the Tribulation. This documents all twelve tribes of Israel are God’s chosen to bring forth the Word of God, not just Judah which is a single tribe (Acts 10:36).
Revelation 7:9
9 “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”
After what? After the Tribulation, after the return of the True Christ, on the Lord’s Day. John beheld a multitude of all the peoples of the earth, different nations, races and languages who were before the throne of God. These also overcame the Tribulation of Satan and his One World Beast Government.
Revelation 7:10-13
10 “And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.”
11 “And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,”
12 “Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.”
13 “And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?”
The Elder said to John, who are these in white robes standing around the throne of God?
Revelation 7:14-15
14 “And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.“
15 “Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.”
These are the very Saints who stood against Satan and came out of the great Tribulation. They are rewarded for the stand they made against Satan by serving at the very throne of Almighty God! For them to have come out of the great Tribulation, they had to go through it. Documenting there is no rapture of the church or Saints. Jesus said himself in John 17:15, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
We are kept from evil just as the woman (symbolic of the twelve tribes) in Revelation 12:14is protected from Satan and nourished in the wilderness for three and a half times which is the second half of the Tribulation of Satan. God always keeps us from evil and He provides a way out of temptation if we stay in His Word and seek out the scriptures asking Him for wisdom and understanding of them (1 Corinthians 10:13). We have numerous accounts of this from, Noah and the Ark, to Daniel in the lion’s den, Jonah in the whales belly and the three in the fiery furnace. “Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come,” (1 Corinthians 10:11).
The end of this earth age will come upon our generation. In the examples just given all of these individuals put in work for God and made a stand for Him. They were not raptured away. They made a stand just as we shall make a stand against Satan with the whole armour of God on and in place. During the Tribulation some of us will be delivered up before death, who is Satan (Hebrews 2:14), the false messiah at which time the Holy Spirit will speak through us. A testimony that even our “adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist” (Luke 21:15). This act will convert many during the Tribulation.
I ask that you turn your Bibles one more time with me to,
Revelation 6:15-16
15 “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:”
The people of the earth hide themselves amongst the rocks as they are overcome with a paralyzing fear as it has now been revealed to the world they have been deceived by Satan. This reality grasps their very soul as they behold the appearance and Glory of the True Christ. As Matthew 13:42 documents, “there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Revelation 6:17
17 “For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
We shall be able to stand! Instead of being rapture ready we need to be Tribulation ready. We can achieve that by no longer listening to the traditions of man and get into God’s Word asking Him for wisdom and understanding.
We make that stand against Satan properly suited with the whole armour of God as Ephesians 6 proclaims. We make that stand by ensuring we have enough oil in our lamps and vessels. This enables us to put forth a constant flame which dispels the dark lies and deception of Satan and his children in these end times and the Tribulation which is shortly to come!
[SIZE=17.2px]http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2013/01/false-hope-of-the-rapture.html[/SIZE]
As Zechariah 14:1-4 documents, “the day of the Lord cometh… And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.” This verse documents Christ is not only returning to the Mount of Olives, but upon His return there shall be a great earthquake which divides that mountain. Let us further document Christ’s return in,
Revelation 11:13
13 “And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.”
What hour? The hour of temptation which is the Tribulation of the Anti-Christ, Satan. What city? Jerusalem, where the two witnesses will be killed and arise after three and a half days (Revelation 11:3-12). This event ends the Tribulation and triggers the great earthquake in Jerusalem as Christ descends from Heaven. “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever,” (Revelation 11:15). Once the seventh trumpet sounds there shall be time no more. Therefore settle it in your minds, Christ is coming here at the end of the Tribulation.
To expand on this point, Christ must remain in Heaven until His appointed time which is the seventh trumpet as we just learned. Turn your Bibles with me to,
Acts 3:20-21
20 “And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:”
21 “Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
These two verses alone document there is no rapture. God’s Word has just stated, Christ must remain in Heaven until all prophecy has been fulfilled, He cannot leave to rapture the church away. In the prior verses, we documented Christ will return to the Mount of Olives at the end of the Tribulation and not a moment before (Zechariah 14:1-4, Acts 1:11-12). It is Satan’s message that he will come to fly you away, if you believe this false doctrine you will be harvested out of season as Christ warned us of.
Now let us analyze a few verses typically used by those who believe in a rapture. Many point to 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as proof of their premise. However, in order to make sure we are “rightly dividing the word of truth,” (2 Timothy 2:15) let us start with verse 13 to identify the subject at hand.
I Thessalonians 4:13-14
13 “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.”
The subject is where are the dead. If we believe Christ is risen, then we should understand those who have passed on before us are with our Father in Heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8). Upon the return of Christ, He will bring those who sleep in Him back to earth with Him.
I Thessalonians 4:15
15 “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.”
Those who remain alive at the return of Jesus Christ cannot “prevent” (Strong’s word: 5348), which is to say “precede” those who have passed on before us. Why? We are still in a flesh body while they have died in the flesh and have already risen into their spiritual body with Christ. We should note, our spiritual body has mass, it has substance, but it is not corruptible, it does not die (1 Corinthians 15:35-55). Further, Angels and men ate each others food as documented in Genesis 19:1-3 and Psalms 78:24-25.
I Thessalonians 4:16
16 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”
The Trump of God is the last trump, the seventh. “In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished,” (Revelation 10:7). When this trumpet sounds there will be time no more as Christ will have returned and His feet will be firmly placed upon the Mount of Olives. Remember, we just documented in Acts 3:20-21 that Christ must remain in Heaven until the fulfillment of all prophecy which occurs at the sounding of the seventh trumpet.
However, we must understand the trumpets are in chronological order, six comes before seven. At the sixth trumpet, which is Satan’s trumpet, he will be cast from Heaven to earth along with his angels (Revelation 12:9). Satan will act as the Lamb to deceive the nations into believing he is Christ returned. If you are entangled in the lie called the rapture you will end up worshipping Satan believing he is Jesus Christ returned to rapture you away. This is one of Satan’s many wicked lies.
I Thessalonians 4:17
17 “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Now we have a clear picture. We that are alive and remain at the seventh trumpet which is the return of Christ will instantly be changed into our spiritual bodies to meet Him and those (in Christ) who have passed on before us. The word “air” (109) in this verse means “breathe.” This is the breath of life which is our spirit and soul, this is what God breathed into Adam (Genesis 2:7). In essence, this is the change of bodies from flesh to spirit as Paul told us would occur “in the twinkling of an eye” at the last trump. There are only seven trumps my friends, this is the event of the seventh trump (I Corinthians 15:51-56). Further, if you are not in a spiritual body, then Jesus has not yet returned, no matter what miracles are being displayed upon the earth!
Let us now take a look at the word “cloud” as used in the verse we just read. Turn your Bibles with me to,
Hebrews 12:1
1 “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,”
Every Christian understands this verse is a figure of speech which references a multitude of people being gathered together. Yet, they let the word “cloud” confound them in 1 Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24. What have we learned about the return of Christ? We discovered that Christ is bringing back with Him those (believers) who have passed on before us. Christ is bringing back a multitude of people, a cloud of people as Paul would describe it in these verses. Do not let this be a mystery to you.
We are not flying away. Remember, Jesus is returning one time to the Mount of Olives which occurs after the Tribulation of Satan, the Anti-Christ. The earth is where Christ will reign with the Saints for one-thousand years, which is the Lord’s Day also known as the Millennium.
In I Thessalonians 5:1-6, Paul tells us to [SIZE=small]stay awake, be sober and watch[/SIZE]. Had a rapture been a part of God’s plan we would not have been given this warning. Nor would we be told to equip ourselves with “the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil,” (Ephesians 6:10-17). Did it say run and hide or fly away? No! We are to standlike a man or woman of God against Satan. As a matter of fact the oil in our vessels is comprised of the very armour of God. How much oil is in your lamp?
With that said, now let us take a look at Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians.
II Thessalonians 2:1
1 “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,”
The topic is the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we gather together with Him.
II Thessalonians 2:2
2 “That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.”
Paul wrote this second letter to the Thessalonians in order to provide clarity concerning our gathering back to the Lord.
II Thessalonians 2:3
3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
What day shall not come? The Day of the Lord, our gathering back unto Him. What “falling away?” The “falling away” (646) from God’s Word which means, “defection from truth.” Who is the “man of sin”, the “son of perdition“? It is none other than Satan himself, “perdition” means to “perish“, to “die“. Satan is the only one that has been condemned to death by name (Revelation 20:10, Ezekiel 28:18-19).
This verse makes it abundantly clear, the Day of the Lord, His return shall not happen until there is a “defection from truth” which is a defection from one’s professed faith, this is the Great Apostasy. This occurs when Satan, “the man of sin” appears in Jerusalem claiming to be Christ. The whole world including most Christians will stop believing in Jesus Christ and start worshipping Satan as they believe him to be Christ. They believe him to be Christ because of the miracles Satan performs and their lack of understanding of God’s Word (Revelation 13:13-14).
II Thessalonians 2:4
4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
The “son of perdition“, Satan has always wanted to be God as we can read of in Isaiah 14:12-16 where God called him “Lucifer“. Satan’s sin was that he wanted to be God himself and he wants everyone to worship him. He will get the opportunity to play God on the earth before men for a short time when he is cast out of Heaven. Satan being the father of lies and deception will “doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,” (Revelation 13:13) deceiving even ‘if it were possible the very elect‘ (Matthew 24:24). This is why Christ stated, ‘if they say I am here or there believe it not,’(Matthew 24:26-27). Why? When the True Christ appears we will be instantly changed into our spiritual bodies and not one moment before that.
II Thessalonians 2:5-6
5 “Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?”
6 “And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.”
Who will be revealed? Satan and all of his lies will finally be revealed to the entire world. Though it will be one day too late for the world as the appearance of Christ brings this action forth.
II Thessalonians 2:7
7 “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”
The subject in this verse is still Satan. Michael holds Satan in Heaven and he will be the one who casts him out (Revelation 12:7). That is what we are talking about here. He who letteth, (he who holds Satan) will let (will continue to hold Satan) until he (Michael) casts Satan and his angels out of Heaven and unto earth, this is the war in Heaven (Revelation 12:7-9).
II Thessalonians 2:8
8 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:”
What wicked? Satan, who will appear on earth before Christ at the sixth trump, claiming to be Christ as verse four states. Then our Lord will return at the seventh trump to destroy Satan’s reign upon the earth. Remember, there are a total of seven trumps and they are all in order.
II Thessalonians 2:9
9 “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,”
Paul just told you these scriptures are about Satan and even named him so there is no doubt who the scriptures have been referring to. And pay attention to the sequence of events. The coming of Christ is after the lying wonders of Satan. Satan will perform miracles in the sight of men to prove to them he is Christ.
This leaves absolutely no room for a rapture of the church my friends. Quite the contrary, we are not going anywhere. The job of the Saints is to prophesy against the false messiahwho is Satan which will appear on earth before men (Luke 21:12-18).
Matthew 24:29
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
After the Tribulation of those days, which are the days of Anti-Christ. The days when Satan will play his role as Jesus Christ, that is the Tribulation. Christ will not return until after Satan has been cast out of Heaven and is on the earth claiming to be Christ. As documented in II Thessalonians 2:2-4.
Matthew 24:30
30 “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
Once again documenting Christ’s return is after the Tribulation and workings of the false messiah, Satan. We should note, these tribes are not the 144,000 who are sealed before the Tribulation.
God knew long ago that His most precious Word would be distorted by the traditions of man. Turn your Bibles with me to,
2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
And so that time has come. We have multitudes of different denominations teaching various traditions of man which make void the Word of God. These Christians are like a reed shaken in the wind, leaning whichever way the wind blows. Ears that cannot hear God’s Truth, but ears that are quick to listen to the traditions of man, quick to listen to whatever sounds good at the moment. God’s Truth always sounds good for those with eyes to see and ears to hear!
Revelation 4:1
1 “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”
Rapturists believe God is calling the church to Heaven in this verse. Was the voice talking to the church? Absolutely not! The voice from Heaven was talking to John (Revelation 1:1). John was taken to Heaven and shown the future. Christ is not bringing the church to Heaven, Christ is coming here. Wherever God is, Heaven is also.
Revelation 7:1
1 “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.”
After what things? After John witnessed the events of the first six seals. Then we read of the four angels who are holding back the very winds that initiate the Trumpets sounding. You can document this by studying Revelation 8 where the earth, sea and trees are harmed (they are not literally harmed) when the first two Trumpets sound.
Revelation 7:2-3
2 “And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,”
3 “Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”
For every negative there is a positive. While Satan’s mark is known as the Mark of the Beast, God has His own mark called a Seal as this verse just documented. Both are placed in the receivers foreheads which is to say their brain. It is the lie of Satan or truth of God’s Word which is firmly planted in their brains.
The four angels holding the four winds at bay were told by the angel of the east not to release the four winds until the servants of God are sealed. The sealing of God’s servants with His Word is so important the Tribulation cannot begin until it is completed! If God had intended to rapture away the righteous of His flock they would not be here and this requirement would not be in His Word. In essence, this sealing is our spiritual armour of Ephesians 6, the armour we equip ourselves with in order to make a stand against Satan. It is the very oil in our lamps.
If we continue reading Revelation 7:4-8 we will document the 144,000 who are sealed consist of 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. These are the Saints who are delivered up to Satan, not raptured before the Tribulation. This documents all twelve tribes of Israel are God’s chosen to bring forth the Word of God, not just Judah which is a single tribe (Acts 10:36).
Revelation 7:9
9 “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”
After what? After the Tribulation, after the return of the True Christ, on the Lord’s Day. John beheld a multitude of all the peoples of the earth, different nations, races and languages who were before the throne of God. These also overcame the Tribulation of Satan and his One World Beast Government.
Revelation 7:10-13
10 “And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.”
11 “And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,”
12 “Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.”
13 “And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?”
The Elder said to John, who are these in white robes standing around the throne of God?
Revelation 7:14-15
14 “And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.“
15 “Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.”
These are the very Saints who stood against Satan and came out of the great Tribulation. They are rewarded for the stand they made against Satan by serving at the very throne of Almighty God! For them to have come out of the great Tribulation, they had to go through it. Documenting there is no rapture of the church or Saints. Jesus said himself in John 17:15, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
We are kept from evil just as the woman (symbolic of the twelve tribes) in Revelation 12:14is protected from Satan and nourished in the wilderness for three and a half times which is the second half of the Tribulation of Satan. God always keeps us from evil and He provides a way out of temptation if we stay in His Word and seek out the scriptures asking Him for wisdom and understanding of them (1 Corinthians 10:13). We have numerous accounts of this from, Noah and the Ark, to Daniel in the lion’s den, Jonah in the whales belly and the three in the fiery furnace. “Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come,” (1 Corinthians 10:11).
The end of this earth age will come upon our generation. In the examples just given all of these individuals put in work for God and made a stand for Him. They were not raptured away. They made a stand just as we shall make a stand against Satan with the whole armour of God on and in place. During the Tribulation some of us will be delivered up before death, who is Satan (Hebrews 2:14), the false messiah at which time the Holy Spirit will speak through us. A testimony that even our “adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist” (Luke 21:15). This act will convert many during the Tribulation.
I ask that you turn your Bibles one more time with me to,
Revelation 6:15-16
15 “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:”
The people of the earth hide themselves amongst the rocks as they are overcome with a paralyzing fear as it has now been revealed to the world they have been deceived by Satan. This reality grasps their very soul as they behold the appearance and Glory of the True Christ. As Matthew 13:42 documents, “there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Revelation 6:17
17 “For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
We shall be able to stand! Instead of being rapture ready we need to be Tribulation ready. We can achieve that by no longer listening to the traditions of man and get into God’s Word asking Him for wisdom and understanding.
We make that stand against Satan properly suited with the whole armour of God as Ephesians 6 proclaims. We make that stand by ensuring we have enough oil in our lamps and vessels. This enables us to put forth a constant flame which dispels the dark lies and deception of Satan and his children in these end times and the Tribulation which is shortly to come!
[SIZE=17.2px]http://worldeventsandthebible.com/2013/01/false-hope-of-the-rapture.html[/SIZE]
Only because you assume there is no rapture. I believe there is a rapture, thus the Church at this time is in Heaven. Yes those who have died as believers are in Heaven.n2thelight said:
Yes, all who have died in Christ come back with Him at the Second Coming as well as all those who were raptured.
Stranger
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
I disagree on the first point: those of us who are left, and remain, still alive after the shortened Great Tribulation - will join those who will have been resurrected from "paradise" on the Day of the Lord.n2thelight said:
Jesus is definitely coming here as to your second point. But He is here to rescue His Bride before trampling out His Wrath on the Day of the Lord.
Subsequent to that - there are the other desolations on the Scroll: trumpets 2 through 7. Those will go on for about three years or more in my estimation.
While I could go through your list - it's really hard to have a discussion with a message board copy and paste job. It tends not to answer...
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
Wikipedia: Word/name. Hebrew. Meaning. ... Israel is a Biblical given name. The patriarch Jacob was given the name Israel (Hebrew: יִשְׂרָאֵל, Standard Yisraʾel Tiberian Yiśrāʾēl; "Triumphant with God", "who prevails with God") after he wrestled with a "man" (Genesis 32:28 and 35:10).Stranger said:
So you disassociate yourself from being 'triumphant with God', or one 'who prevails with God'.
You also ignore the teaching of the Apostles. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, 1 Peter 2:9-10
I put it to you, denying the truth of God's plans for His true, righteous people, the Christian Israel of God, is a serious error. Thinking that the Jewish people are the only Israel, simply cannot be right. The Jews; the House of Judah, had the Kingdom taken from them. Matthew 21:43, it is the Christian Israel of God who are the nation who bears fruit.
No, I disassociate myself from being Israel. I do not ignore the teaching of the Apostles.keras said:
Rom. 9:6-9 ...they are not all Israel, which are of Israel...in Isaac shall thy seed be called..They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of promise are counted for the seed...." This is Israel all the way. Note it says "which are of Israel" Just because one is born in Israel doesn't make him true Israel. He must also be a child of promise. This doesn't say a Gentile is made an Israelite. This doesn't make the Church Israel.
Gal. 3:26-29 " For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus....for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." This is the Church all the way. In the Church we are neither Jew or Gentile. Nor are we Israel. We are the Church.
1Peter 2:9-10 " But ye are a chosen generation,...an holy nation...Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God:..." Indeed the Church is now the people of God. That doesn't make them Israel.
Matt. 21:43 " Therefore say I unto you,The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Indeed the kingdom was taken from Israel. And it will be given again to the nation Israel when she repents and turns to her Messiah. See (Acts 1:6-7) " When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. " Jesus didn't say the kingdom is given to the Church and the Church becomes Israel. He said they are not to know when He restores the kingdom to Israel.
Stranger
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
Who is the true Israel of God?
This question can be put as: Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises?
The answer isn’t in those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.
The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and their moral and ethical behaviour, prove they belong to Him.
It was always possible for foreigners to join Israel, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant. Leviticus 19:3-34, Isaiah 56:1-8. Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is counted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18
So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:
1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry extant today.
2/ They cannot become Israelite by conversion to Judaism.
3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17
Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel. People from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18
This truth that all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4
It will be the true, righteous Christian Church that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Isaiah 66:18-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Rev. 7:1-10
This question can be put as: Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises?
The answer isn’t in those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.
The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and their moral and ethical behaviour, prove they belong to Him.
It was always possible for foreigners to join Israel, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant. Leviticus 19:3-34, Isaiah 56:1-8. Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is counted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18
So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:
1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry extant today.
2/ They cannot become Israelite by conversion to Judaism.
3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17
Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel. People from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18
This truth that all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4
It will be the true, righteous Christian Church that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Isaiah 66:18-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Rev. 7:1-10
How's that Bible study goin? It's easy when you're the only one stating one view. No need to answer others questions or response. Just dictate what you believe without accountability.keras said:
Stranger
Not understanding why you mocking when he's giving sound biblical doctrine....Stranger said:
Let me ask you the question,who is Israel from your understanding?
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
Israel - the man
Israel - the twelve tribes
Israel - the nation
Israel - the people
Israel - the land.
Take your pick...
Israel - the twelve tribes
Israel - the nation
Israel - the people
Israel - the land.
Take your pick...
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
Four different meanings can be ascribed to ‘Israel’ in the Bible:n2thelight said:
• the land,
• the person,
• the natural descendants of the person,
• and finally those who inherit the title or God’s chosen people in the spiritual aspect of the word.
Which are you asking about?
Marcus O'Reillius
Active Member
Israel
Oddly enough, while in everyday conversation the term ‘Israel’ is understood in the normal sense as the nation of Israel located in the Middle East, the term ‘Israel’ in the Bible carries several meanings. The first is as just stated, the nation of Israel. The most common Biblical understanding of ‘Israel’ relates to the descendants of Israel, who God renamed from Jacob, which itself is a third usage referring to the person. However, a fourth meaning can be discerned for ‘Israel.’ If either of the common definitions are applied to every instance this word crops up in prophecy, then this last possible meaning is dropped simply because it is not explicitly spelled out. This drops one of the meanings for the word from a Biblical sense and can lead to rendering an interpretation which can be in error.
Four different meanings can be ascribed to ‘Israel’ in the Bible:
• the land,
• the person,
• the natural descendants of the person,
• and finally those who inherit the title or God’s chosen people in the spiritual aspect of the word.
Furthermore, evidence in the Bible exists for the transition from the nation of Israel as being the physical descendants to being a nation of believers. Supporting this concept in the Old Testament which is reaffirmed in the New Testament, language can be found that effectively shifts the meaning of Israel to the Church when a spiritual aspect is indicated.
In the first usage of Israel, as Joshua comes into the Promised Land, the land itself is called Israel in Jos 11:16. Israel is also found in the normal sense as a land in 1Sa 13:19. David refers to the boundaries of Israel in 1Sa 27:1. Ezekiel records the LORD as referring to land (of) Israel numerous times in distinction to the people, Israel, living in the land. Referring to Israel in the normal everyday sense of a land is reaffirmed by the Apostle Matthew himself Hebrew and the Gentile physician Luke in the New Testament in Mt 2:20-1 and Lk 4:25. So the first reading of ‘Israel’ as denoting the land can be found in both Testaments.
Israel in the second meaning literally comes from a person. Jacob, chosen by God over his elder brother Esau earned the title of his name, ‘supplanter’ (from the Hebrew ya’aqob). He wrestles with a man through the night, who then renames him as “Israel,” meaning ‘struggles with God.’ From the Genesis account, whether in a figurative sense, or literally, and in the latter sense, whether an angel or Yahweh; Jacob’s life is about struggle. The name comes from sara, meaning I, contend, have power ―TWOT p. 883 and in its derivative, yisra’el means God strives, but in the context of Jacob’s struggle in Genesis ought to be understood in the sense of he contends with God ―ibid.
If Jacob went from being a ‘supplanter,’ to one who ‘contends with God,’ then the contention did not end with him, but having that as a nature would be passed down father to son. This brings into focus the third and most widely used meaning for Israel, the sons of Israel, and to their descendants: the tribes of Israel, or just the twelve tribes. Israel in the normal sense would struggle with God as well, but this struggle was one of being a proper bond servant to God (Jer 5:19; Eze 20:39; Mal 3:14). In the Law, God would call them a stiff-necked people (Ex 32:9; Dt 9:6; 2Ki 17:14; Ne 9:16) who sinned greatly against Him despite having been rescued out of Egypt. As time went on, Israel would continually provoke God to anger (Dt 31:29; 1Ki 16:2; Jer 7:18; Eze 8:17). While God had dressed His bride, Jerusalem, representative of Israel, in riches, she played the harlot with the nations around her and so broke the covenant God had made with Israel when He brought them out of Egypt. Her rebelliousness is a constant theme in the Prophets and continues until as in Ezekiel, God will no longer hear them even thought they shout in His ear. Instead, God will unleash Judgment upon them.
While God’s people pass out of God’s favor to the point that they become an object of God’s Wrath, by no means has God abandoned His chosen people. God will save a remnant as He did before with a great failing of God’s people. God abides by covenants made to the point of maintaining them in the face of faithfulness. The point of Hosea illustrates how God’s people had failed God, yet God remains faithful. While God saves a remnant so as to reestablish His people with Israel, God’s plan encompasses more than just saving a remnant.
The fourth group denoting the spiritual aspect comes from this plan. The inclusion of the Gentiles to the Elect comes about with the Church. The Church as a body is established strongly in the New Testament, however, a common refrain is that the Church age was unseen by the prophets. The idea that the Church was not foreseen or was looked over by the prophets is not supported entirely. Passages hint at indications for a new people God’s favors to emerge. Once again God hides His intentions in plain sight. Included with describing the coming Servant, verses describe the new attribute God’s people will have: faith, belief, and trust.
ISA 28:16 So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.
This verse is embedded within a larger section of text decrying the rulers in Jerusalem. In response, this messianic prophecy sets a new standard, one of faith and trust. From there, the Lord says righteousness will be the plumb line.
ISA 53:1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
This verse lies in the middle of the Servant passage on suffering. Here, the belief of those that believe in the Servant’s message relates to the preceding verse shows that God’s plan will be physically seen and understood. The question if rhetorical points to a new class of people, those that believe. The nature of the break between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant that also shows the difference between the physical nation of Israel and the spiritual nation of Israel is in Hosea.
HOS 1:9 Then the LORD said, "Call him Lo-Ammi, for you are not my people, and I am not your God.
The name "Lo-Ammi" means "not my people." The significance of this is stated in the remainder of the verse. Israel was disowned by God as his people; he would no longer be their God. The reason is in v. 2: The people had departed from the Lord in faithfulness, going after other gods. Lo-Ammi is harsher in meaning than the name of the second child. The name Lo-Ruhamah spoke of not being loved; Lo-Ammi speaks of being fully disowned. ―EBCOT
Later, God will reunite His people, but in the meanwhile, there are a new people in God, those that believe, have faith in and trust the One God Sent. This is the Church in the Old Testament. Those that have accepted the invitation of Christ are also bound up in the coming Day of the Lord. While most prophecy concerning the Day of the Lord tells of the awful mourning associated with it, the fire, smoke and blood, there is a prophecy that speaks about another element within that day:
ZEP 1:7 Be silent before the Sovereign LORD,
for the day of the LORD is near.
The LORD has prepared a sacrifice;
he has consecrated those he has invited.
But this aspect of those who have been invited (to the marriage supper of the Lamb) will have to wait to be explored later. Meanwhile the transference to a new people is made forcibly in the New Testament. Showing this passing of the covenant relationship is consistent with a parable Jesus spoke of the vineyard:
MT 21:33 "Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. 34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
MT 21:35 "The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. `They will respect my son,' he said.
MT 21:38 "But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, `This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.' 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
MT 21:40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
MT 21:41 "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, "and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time."
It was up to the Israel to tend to God's Word. It was the Hebrews who killed the prophets. It was the Jews who would kill the Son. Jesus has put the whole of Israel's relationship with God into a parable and this parable speaks through the Disciples in truth that God will transfer title to the vineyard to another people.
While the Gentiles are grafted into the covenant relationship of the nation of Israel, as Paul explains in Romans 11:17-21; the true Israel in the spiritual sense is the Church. Thus they are the offspring having inherited the vineyard that is God’s kingdom from the Saints of old. This parable goes against the religious authorities of Jesus’ day, and illustrates the transference of management for God’s people that will occur from the Levite class to the Apostles. The time has come that God abandoned His people with the discrediting of their leaders and took up a new people in replacement of the physical state of Israel. As Jesus explained:
JN 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
This worshiping in spirit defines the Church as the spiritual Israel, and synonymous with the Church and the end-time allusion to the Harvest in the parable; the kind of believers in the same vein as David, a man after God’s own heart. This is the fourth Israel, and when looking at end-time prophecy, a differentiation must always be made which nation, the physical descendants of the man, Israel, or the spiritual nation of Israel which is the Church - is being described. Because between the two, they are as different as the Old Testament which cannot confer life is to the New with Christ as the source of Life.
In addition to Christ’s words, Paul, as a Jewish Christian teaching the Gentiles, makes the distinction between the physical and spiritual quite well in the Epistles. Flat out in Romans 9:6, he states,
For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Paul confers the sonship of Abraham to the Church in Galatians 3:7,
it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.
Speaking plainly, the New Testament reveals the elements of faith, trust and belief that mark the New Covenant from the Old Testament and so also defines the spiritual Israel as the Church. Later on in Galatians, Paul makes an allegorical statement which expresses a theological truth. In as much as Abraham had two sons, one by Hagar and the other by Sarah, they were destined for different ends. The Covenant relationship God had entered in with Abraham was only to be conferred upon Isaac. As Paul says:
GAL 4:24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Paul concludes with Scripture citing Genesis 21:10 that between Jew and Christian a similar passing of birthright has occurred and only Christians inherit the promise God has made through Jesus.
Between the physical Israel and the spiritual Israel, care must be used to discern within the context of the prophecy to make a firm determination which group is being singled out. Until the first is reunited with God, these are two separate peoples with two different roles to play in the end-times, so confusing one with the other muddies the picture and can lead erroneous conclusions. As an object for action, the Bible may indicate by overall description, or nuance of language which nation is being acted upon. Evidence for a determination will be presented, so the reader always understands the reasons for interpretation, but as a basis for that understanding, knowing that all four types of definitions exist within the Bible is a necessary first step.
Oddly enough, while in everyday conversation the term ‘Israel’ is understood in the normal sense as the nation of Israel located in the Middle East, the term ‘Israel’ in the Bible carries several meanings. The first is as just stated, the nation of Israel. The most common Biblical understanding of ‘Israel’ relates to the descendants of Israel, who God renamed from Jacob, which itself is a third usage referring to the person. However, a fourth meaning can be discerned for ‘Israel.’ If either of the common definitions are applied to every instance this word crops up in prophecy, then this last possible meaning is dropped simply because it is not explicitly spelled out. This drops one of the meanings for the word from a Biblical sense and can lead to rendering an interpretation which can be in error.
Four different meanings can be ascribed to ‘Israel’ in the Bible:
• the land,
• the person,
• the natural descendants of the person,
• and finally those who inherit the title or God’s chosen people in the spiritual aspect of the word.
Furthermore, evidence in the Bible exists for the transition from the nation of Israel as being the physical descendants to being a nation of believers. Supporting this concept in the Old Testament which is reaffirmed in the New Testament, language can be found that effectively shifts the meaning of Israel to the Church when a spiritual aspect is indicated.
In the first usage of Israel, as Joshua comes into the Promised Land, the land itself is called Israel in Jos 11:16. Israel is also found in the normal sense as a land in 1Sa 13:19. David refers to the boundaries of Israel in 1Sa 27:1. Ezekiel records the LORD as referring to land (of) Israel numerous times in distinction to the people, Israel, living in the land. Referring to Israel in the normal everyday sense of a land is reaffirmed by the Apostle Matthew himself Hebrew and the Gentile physician Luke in the New Testament in Mt 2:20-1 and Lk 4:25. So the first reading of ‘Israel’ as denoting the land can be found in both Testaments.
Israel in the second meaning literally comes from a person. Jacob, chosen by God over his elder brother Esau earned the title of his name, ‘supplanter’ (from the Hebrew ya’aqob). He wrestles with a man through the night, who then renames him as “Israel,” meaning ‘struggles with God.’ From the Genesis account, whether in a figurative sense, or literally, and in the latter sense, whether an angel or Yahweh; Jacob’s life is about struggle. The name comes from sara, meaning I, contend, have power ―TWOT p. 883 and in its derivative, yisra’el means God strives, but in the context of Jacob’s struggle in Genesis ought to be understood in the sense of he contends with God ―ibid.
If Jacob went from being a ‘supplanter,’ to one who ‘contends with God,’ then the contention did not end with him, but having that as a nature would be passed down father to son. This brings into focus the third and most widely used meaning for Israel, the sons of Israel, and to their descendants: the tribes of Israel, or just the twelve tribes. Israel in the normal sense would struggle with God as well, but this struggle was one of being a proper bond servant to God (Jer 5:19; Eze 20:39; Mal 3:14). In the Law, God would call them a stiff-necked people (Ex 32:9; Dt 9:6; 2Ki 17:14; Ne 9:16) who sinned greatly against Him despite having been rescued out of Egypt. As time went on, Israel would continually provoke God to anger (Dt 31:29; 1Ki 16:2; Jer 7:18; Eze 8:17). While God had dressed His bride, Jerusalem, representative of Israel, in riches, she played the harlot with the nations around her and so broke the covenant God had made with Israel when He brought them out of Egypt. Her rebelliousness is a constant theme in the Prophets and continues until as in Ezekiel, God will no longer hear them even thought they shout in His ear. Instead, God will unleash Judgment upon them.
While God’s people pass out of God’s favor to the point that they become an object of God’s Wrath, by no means has God abandoned His chosen people. God will save a remnant as He did before with a great failing of God’s people. God abides by covenants made to the point of maintaining them in the face of faithfulness. The point of Hosea illustrates how God’s people had failed God, yet God remains faithful. While God saves a remnant so as to reestablish His people with Israel, God’s plan encompasses more than just saving a remnant.
The fourth group denoting the spiritual aspect comes from this plan. The inclusion of the Gentiles to the Elect comes about with the Church. The Church as a body is established strongly in the New Testament, however, a common refrain is that the Church age was unseen by the prophets. The idea that the Church was not foreseen or was looked over by the prophets is not supported entirely. Passages hint at indications for a new people God’s favors to emerge. Once again God hides His intentions in plain sight. Included with describing the coming Servant, verses describe the new attribute God’s people will have: faith, belief, and trust.
ISA 28:16 So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.
This verse is embedded within a larger section of text decrying the rulers in Jerusalem. In response, this messianic prophecy sets a new standard, one of faith and trust. From there, the Lord says righteousness will be the plumb line.
ISA 53:1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
This verse lies in the middle of the Servant passage on suffering. Here, the belief of those that believe in the Servant’s message relates to the preceding verse shows that God’s plan will be physically seen and understood. The question if rhetorical points to a new class of people, those that believe. The nature of the break between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant that also shows the difference between the physical nation of Israel and the spiritual nation of Israel is in Hosea.
HOS 1:9 Then the LORD said, "Call him Lo-Ammi, for you are not my people, and I am not your God.
The name "Lo-Ammi" means "not my people." The significance of this is stated in the remainder of the verse. Israel was disowned by God as his people; he would no longer be their God. The reason is in v. 2: The people had departed from the Lord in faithfulness, going after other gods. Lo-Ammi is harsher in meaning than the name of the second child. The name Lo-Ruhamah spoke of not being loved; Lo-Ammi speaks of being fully disowned. ―EBCOT
Later, God will reunite His people, but in the meanwhile, there are a new people in God, those that believe, have faith in and trust the One God Sent. This is the Church in the Old Testament. Those that have accepted the invitation of Christ are also bound up in the coming Day of the Lord. While most prophecy concerning the Day of the Lord tells of the awful mourning associated with it, the fire, smoke and blood, there is a prophecy that speaks about another element within that day:
ZEP 1:7 Be silent before the Sovereign LORD,
for the day of the LORD is near.
The LORD has prepared a sacrifice;
he has consecrated those he has invited.
But this aspect of those who have been invited (to the marriage supper of the Lamb) will have to wait to be explored later. Meanwhile the transference to a new people is made forcibly in the New Testament. Showing this passing of the covenant relationship is consistent with a parable Jesus spoke of the vineyard:
MT 21:33 "Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. 34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
MT 21:35 "The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. `They will respect my son,' he said.
MT 21:38 "But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, `This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.' 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
MT 21:40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
MT 21:41 "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, "and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time."
It was up to the Israel to tend to God's Word. It was the Hebrews who killed the prophets. It was the Jews who would kill the Son. Jesus has put the whole of Israel's relationship with God into a parable and this parable speaks through the Disciples in truth that God will transfer title to the vineyard to another people.
While the Gentiles are grafted into the covenant relationship of the nation of Israel, as Paul explains in Romans 11:17-21; the true Israel in the spiritual sense is the Church. Thus they are the offspring having inherited the vineyard that is God’s kingdom from the Saints of old. This parable goes against the religious authorities of Jesus’ day, and illustrates the transference of management for God’s people that will occur from the Levite class to the Apostles. The time has come that God abandoned His people with the discrediting of their leaders and took up a new people in replacement of the physical state of Israel. As Jesus explained:
JN 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
This worshiping in spirit defines the Church as the spiritual Israel, and synonymous with the Church and the end-time allusion to the Harvest in the parable; the kind of believers in the same vein as David, a man after God’s own heart. This is the fourth Israel, and when looking at end-time prophecy, a differentiation must always be made which nation, the physical descendants of the man, Israel, or the spiritual nation of Israel which is the Church - is being described. Because between the two, they are as different as the Old Testament which cannot confer life is to the New with Christ as the source of Life.
In addition to Christ’s words, Paul, as a Jewish Christian teaching the Gentiles, makes the distinction between the physical and spiritual quite well in the Epistles. Flat out in Romans 9:6, he states,
For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Paul confers the sonship of Abraham to the Church in Galatians 3:7,
it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.
Speaking plainly, the New Testament reveals the elements of faith, trust and belief that mark the New Covenant from the Old Testament and so also defines the spiritual Israel as the Church. Later on in Galatians, Paul makes an allegorical statement which expresses a theological truth. In as much as Abraham had two sons, one by Hagar and the other by Sarah, they were destined for different ends. The Covenant relationship God had entered in with Abraham was only to be conferred upon Isaac. As Paul says:
GAL 4:24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Paul concludes with Scripture citing Genesis 21:10 that between Jew and Christian a similar passing of birthright has occurred and only Christians inherit the promise God has made through Jesus.
Between the physical Israel and the spiritual Israel, care must be used to discern within the context of the prophecy to make a firm determination which group is being singled out. Until the first is reunited with God, these are two separate peoples with two different roles to play in the end-times, so confusing one with the other muddies the picture and can lead erroneous conclusions. As an object for action, the Bible may indicate by overall description, or nuance of language which nation is being acted upon. Evidence for a determination will be presented, so the reader always understands the reasons for interpretation, but as a basis for that understanding, knowing that all four types of definitions exist within the Bible is a necessary first step.
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
A scholarly study, Marcus, carefully written and aimed to maintain the separation between Israel; the Jews and the Church.
The truth overlooked is the plain fact that there is only one people of God. John 10:16, John 17:22-23, 1 Cor. 1:13, Romans 2:11 and more.
The erroneous conclusion is Two People, Two Promises and the theory of a rapture removal to heaven hinges on it.
Today, the Jewish people, as described by Jesus in Revelation 2:9b and they, with the exception of the Messianic Jews, are just another of the ungodly nations.
The truth overlooked is the plain fact that there is only one people of God. John 10:16, John 17:22-23, 1 Cor. 1:13, Romans 2:11 and more.
The erroneous conclusion is Two People, Two Promises and the theory of a rapture removal to heaven hinges on it.
Today, the Jewish people, as described by Jesus in Revelation 2:9b and they, with the exception of the Messianic Jews, are just another of the ungodly nations.
Agreed, some Christians worry too much about the end time, when we should just be doing what God has called us to do, what do we have to worry about anyway? We should all know where we are going, and Heaven is a much better place then here on Earth anyway and it's not like the days of Noah yet, right now you are all expecting Jesus to come back now, or within the next 10 years- 20 years, but he will come back when we least expect it. There's still worst than WW2 to come i believe though.Born_Again said:
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