Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

[Enoch111]

Paul's clear: the "falling away" is the great apostasy of the Roman Catholic Church which took place in the 5th century with the rise of the papacy aka Protestant Historicism. Jesuit Futurism is not found taught anywhere before the Jesuits dreamed it up.

The major flaw in your argument is that the RCC never controlled the whole world with an iron fist and applied the Mark of the Beast to control buying and selling of goods worldwide. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not behead those it considered heretics.

 

[Phoneman777]

The major flaw in your argument is that the RCC never controlled the whole world with an iron fist and applied the Mark of the Beast to control buying and selling of goods worldwide. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not behead those it considered heretics.

We cannot ignore the tyrannical history of the RCC, nor that today it rules the world through a network of Jesuitical Luciferian Secret Societies. Even Trump is being played by them in working to establish a Conservative majority which will soon make an "image to the Beast" by joining church and state and force everyone here and in the entire world to bow down and worship the papacy.

 

[Copperhead]

We cannot ignore the tyrannical history of the RCC, nor that today it rules the world through a network of Jesuitical Luciferian Secret Societies. Even Trump is being played by them in working to establish a Conservative majority which will soon make an "image to the Beast" by joining church and state and force everyone here and in the entire world to bow down and worship the papacy.

I don't think that many would deny that the RCC has had a major influence on governements, groups, etc and has a very checkered past at best. The sexual scandals during the dark ages is well documented. It was written once that there were more harlots in Rome than RCC clergy. One Pope was killed by the enraged husband of the wife the Pope was involved with. The "Rat Lines" was a RCC gig to get Nazi's out of Germany and hidden so they would not be captured by the Allies. Hitler, to this very day, has never been excommunicated from the RCC though he is responsible for 14 million deaths by the SS and the camps. And many Popes had no problem with the slaughter of believers as they saw fit.

But it is quite a stretch to take it in the way you are wanting to go. I would be one of the first to side with the idea that the RCC or rather this or a future Pope could be the false prophet that is unified with the antichrist. The RCC has always been focused on temporal, earthly power, of that it would be hard to refute. The Pope will cuddle up to all sorts of snake charmers, witches, gurus, you name it. All sorts of these types of folks have been invited to major gatherings at the Vatican. The RCC leadership is just a power hungry group that will take advantage of just about anything to feather its nest. And if it can be the main channel to run the show, all the better.

But I am an old guy and they were spouting the same things about President John Kennedy in 1961 that you are about Trump. Going so far as to even imply after Kennedy was shot and killed that he would be resurrected and the head wound was that of the antichrist. Oh boy, glad we got over that one. The redeemed are not going to know who the antichrist is because they will be out of here before he is revealed. That is why I waste no time trying to play with numerology, conspiracy theories, and such in some sort of attempt to know who these characters are. When they show up, there will be little doubt who they are and there is not one thing anyone is going to be able to do about it.

It can be interesting, intriguing, and somewhat fun to play in that sand box, but It is just a total waste of my time.

 

[Dave L]

I don't think that many would deny that the RCC has had a major influence on governements, groups, etc. But it is quite a stretch to take it in the way you are wanting to go. I would be one of the first to side with the idea that the RCC or rather this or a future Pope could be the false prophet that is unified with the antichrist. The RCC has always been focused on temporal, earthly power, of that it would be hard to refute. The Pope will cuddle up to all sorts of snake charmers, witches, gurus, you name it. All sorts of these types of folks have been invited to major gatherings at the Vatican. The RCC is just a power hungry group that will take advantage of just about anything to feather its nest. And if it can be the main channel to run the show, all the better.

But I am an old guy and they were spouting the same things about President John Kennedy in 1961 that you are about Trump. The redeemed are not going to know who the antichrist is because they will be out of here before he is revealed. That is why I waste no time trying to play with numerology, conspiracy theories, and such in some sort of attempt to know who these characters are. When they show up, there will be little doubt who they are and there is not one thing anyone is going to be able to do about it.

It can be interesting, intriguing, and somewhat fun to play in that sand box, but It is just a total waste of my time.

Here are some of the places where figures about religious persecutions are given. Dowling in his History of Romanism says

"From the birth of Popery in 606 to the present time, it is
estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than
fifty millions of the human family, have been slaughtered for
the crime of heresy by popish persecutors, an average of
more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of
the existence of popery."

-- "History of Romanism," pp. 541, 542. New York: 1871.

 

[Davy]

Nope. I deny Two House theology that is essentially replacement theology with a twist. Or rather, it is Replacement Theology turned on its head.

No such thing as "replacement theology". That's just a doctrine the orthodox Jews came up with to try and defeat the fact that God's promises are now only with the New Covenant Church which is in Jesus Christ.

 

[Davy]

A few questions. If the "Kingdom" starts once Christ comes back, what is the "Kingdom" that Christ 'delivers to his Father', "at his coming" (1 Cor 15:23-24)?
....

You are misinterpreting what Paul said in that 1 Cor.15:23-28 passage, and you must include down to verse 28 to get all of it, not just pull out a couple of verses that you want to try to support a doctrine of men like you're doing.

1 Cor 15:23-28
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Paul is giving a short summary of this subject of 'order' with these 23 & 24 verses. But in the next 25 through 28 verses, he gives more detail of this subject about when that 'end' will be.

And I ALREADY POINTED OUT TO YOU THAT CONDITION FOR THE END THERE IN RED, which you simply chose to IGNORE.


Paul gives MORE INFO ON THAT CONDITION OF CHRIST'S FUTURE REIGN...

25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

The Father is excepted in that future reign, for only Jesus MUST reign over all His enemies first before the Kingdom can be delivered up to The Father. That is exactly what Apostle Paul is saying there.


But you are only interested in TWISTING WHAT PAUL SAID THERE! IN FAVOR OF YOUR PET DOCTRINES OF MEN YOU FOLLOW.

 

[Copperhead]

No such thing as "replacement theology". That's just a doctrine the orthodox Jews came up with to try and defeat the fact that God's promises are now only with the New Covenant Church which is in Jesus Christ.

If that is what you want to believe, I won't stop you. But you might want to read who the New Covenant is actually made with. Might surprise you.

 

[Copperhead]

But you are only interested in TWISTING WHAT PAUL SAID THERE! IN FAVOR OF YOUR PET DOCTRINES OF MEN YOU FOLLOW.

What is it about folks who disagree that you feel you need to belittle them? The very words could be tossed your direction to easily. God does not have a kingdom of robots. We will not see everything the exact same way. There is no need for character assassination. It really hurts whatever case you are trying to make.

To make the accusation of "twisting" you are making the accusation of malicious intent to deceive. That is a serious accusation and totally outside your pay grade to make. Having a tough time seeing those gifts of the spirit from you that are supposed to be evident in those who are redeemed. It is ok to disagree, it is not ok to level the attacks you are.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

The major flaw in your argument is that the RCC never controlled the whole world with an iron fist and applied the Mark of the Beast to control buying and selling of goods worldwide. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not behead those it considered heretics.

No--they most often burned them at the stake. Much more cruel than a quick chop. And, if they really hated someone, they used green wood.

 

[Davy]

If that is what you want to believe, I won't stop you. But you might want to read who the New Covenant is actually made with. Might surprise you.

The New Covenant is only to BOTH believing Jew and believing Gentile, as ONE BODY in Christ Jesus. That... is what Apostle Paul taught, and he was a believing Jew...

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

Per that, Paul even dispensed with titles like Jew and Gentile ("Greek") to show how Christ's Body of believers is ONE Body (meaning Christ's Church).

What you just inferred goes directly against... what Apostle Paul said there! That means you have come here pushing the Jew's doctrine, and not The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Davy]

What is it about folks who disagree that you feel you need to belittle them? The very words could be tossed your direction to easily. God does not have a kingdom of robots. We will not see everything the exact same way. There is no need for character assassination. It really hurts whatever case you are trying to make.

To make the accusation of "twisting" you are making the accusation of malicious intent to deceive. That is a serious accusation and totally outside your pay grade to make. Having a tough time seeing those gifts of the spirit from you that are supposed to be evident in those who are redeemed. It is ok to disagree, it is not ok to level the attacks you are.

If the shoe fits, wear it. Don't be a coward and try to hide in the shadows of men's doctrines.

 

[Davy]

We cannot ignore the tyrannical history of the RCC, nor that today it rules the world through a network of Jesuitical Luciferian Secret Societies. Even Trump is being played by them in working to establish a Conservative majority which will soon make an "image to the Beast" by joining church and state and force everyone here and in the entire world to bow down and worship the papacy.

Now that really... sounds like orthodox Judaism talking!

 

[Phoneman777]

The operative words in the following passage are "is about to come out from His place". The resurrection and hiding of His people in the rooms prepared by the Lord in His Father's House will occur before the Tribulation Period. No twisting of anything.

That interpretation makes absolutely no sense. If the saints are safely in heaven up there while the commotion is raging down here, why would they have to "hide"?

As for those rooms, the 7 Last Plagues of Egypt are a type of the 7 Last Plagues of God's wrath in the end, to which your passage in Isaiah refers...and the "rooms" in which the Israelites hid behind locked and blood soaked doors is the same kind of hiding place to which we'll have to seek refuge when the plagues fall and we'll be safe in the arms of our Lord as "a thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand, but it shall not come nigh thee. Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked".

• Did God preserve Noah and co. in the midst of the Flood or by taking them out of it?
• Did God preserve Isaac in the midst of the altar of sacrifice or by taking him out of it?
• Did God preserve Israel in the midst of Egypt during the 7 Last Plagues or by taking them out of it?
• Did God preserve Israel in the midst of the Red Sea or by taking them out of it?
• Did God preserve Elijah and co. in the midst of the 3 1/2 year famine or by taking him out of it?
• Did God preserve Elisha and co. in the midst of the Syrian army at Dothan or by taking him out of it?
• Did God preserve Israel in the midst of the siege of king Benhadad or by taking them out of it?
• Did God preserve Israel in the midst of the siege of king Sennacherib or by taking them out of it?
• Did God preserve the 3 Hebrews in the midst of the furnace or by taking them out of it?
• Did God preserve Daniel in the midst of the lion's den or by taking him out of it?
• Did God preserve Esther and co. in the midst of Medo-Persia or by taking them out of it?
• Did God preserve the disciples in the midst of the Galilean Sea storm or by taking them out of it?
• Did God preserve Paul and co. in the midst of the doomed ship or by taking them out of it?

Can God still preserve His people in the midst of trial and tribulation today in the same way? Of course Heis able!

 

[Phoneman777]

Now that really... sounds like orthodox Judaism talking!

Zionism is controlled by them too

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Here are some of the places where figures about religious persecutions are given. Dowling in his History of Romanism says

"From the birth of Popery in 606 to the present time, it is
estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than
fifty millions of the human family, have been slaughtered for
the crime of heresy by popish persecutors, an average of
more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of
the existence of popery."

-- "History of Romanism," pp. 541, 542. New York: 1871.

And it continued even into the 20th century: "...Mr. Raywood Frazier, in the booklet 'Catholic Words and Actions', presents documentary proof of the intensive persecution of Protestants and non-Catholics in Colombia, South America, between 1949 and 1953. The Catholic Church had the support of the Colombian government in the destruction of many [non-Catholic] churches, and the liquidation of more than 1,000 documented cases -- some of whom were shot, drowned, or emasculated. He says there is evidence of over 60,000 killed. Pope Pius XII awarded the President of Colombia with one of the highest awards which the Church bestows, and praised Colombia for its example of the Catholic faith. (Pp. 59,60)"

 

[Copperhead]

Yeah, they could get creative. I

That interpretation makes absolutely no sense. If the saints are safely in heaven up there while the commotion is raging down here, why would they have to "hide"?

The hiding is in heaven according to the passage. they are hidden from the calamities by the Lord in His tent / house. Hey, I didn't say it, King David did! You are free to take it up with him in the future as to why he wrote it.

Psalms 27:5 For in the day of trouble He will conceal me in His tabernacle;
In the secret place of His tent He will hide me;
He will lift me up on a rock.

Isaiah said it also. Hey!!! You three guys can hash it out in the future and they can fill you in on what point they were trying to get across. Do you mind if I sit in on the discussion?

Isaiah 26:20-21 Come, my people, enter into your rooms
And close your doors behind you;
Hide for a little while
Until indignation runs its course.
21 For behold, the Lord is about to come out from His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
And the earth will reveal her bloodshed
And will no longer cover her slain.

And both of those guys conform to Yeshua's comments....

John 14:2-3 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

 

[Copperhead]

If the shoe fits, wear it. Don't be a coward and try to hide in the shadows of men's doctrines.

Just can't contain yourself from making personal attacks can you? Coward? Yeah sure. Vietnam Vet, 7 years total service, Recon team leader. Yeah, I just whimper like a whipped pup around folks like you. But unlike you, I do not feel intimidated by anyone or their theology to the point where I need to attack their character. You have serious issues you need to work out if you expect anyone to believe you are part of the redeemed. You do not play well with others.

 

[n2thelight]

To be a Christian is to be Israel,plan and simple.

You either belong to satan or Christ,aint no in between .

The two tree's that were in the Garden,you are grafted in to one or the other.

If you knew the history better, you would not make such bold assertions. The Kings and Queens of England have been mediocre at best when it comes to "protecting the faith". Some have been downright heretical. Look up Queen Mary "Bloody Mary" sometime. And the KJV has errors just as any other translation. At least we have had a lot of years to figure out what they are. If the Kings and Queens would have been so stellar in their preserving the faith, they would have required Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek to be taught in all public schools so that everyone would be able to read the scripture in the original languages and avoided translation issues.

Again, you must provide more that a interpretation of one passage. All matters of doctrine have to meet the Torah requirement of the testimony of two witnesses, and the Bereans showed us how that is applied in Acts 17. For any matter of doctrine to be established it must be confirmed by both the NT and OT. You have not met that requirement. Case dismissed due to lack of evidence.

So, who are the nations?And what king was good since the Israelites wanted one?

Have you ever read the translators letter to the reader that was in the kjv?

If not please do ,link below

The Translators to the Reader

 

[Keraz]

These colorful legends of "lost tribes", Two House Theory, etc are just that... colorful legends.

I will let God have the last Word on this subject:
Malachi 3:6-7 I; the Lord do not change and you, [my People] have not ceased to be the children of Jacob. Ever since the time of your forefathers, you have been wayward and have not kept My Laws. But if you return to Me, I shall return to you.

 

[Copperhead]

To be a Christian is to be Israel,plan and simple.

You either belong to satan or Christ,aint no in between .

The two tree's that were in the Garden,you are grafted in to one or the other.


So, who are the nations?And what king was good since the Israelites wanted one?

Have you ever read the translators letter to the reader that was in the kjv?

If not please do ,link below

The Translators to the Reader

And the KJV translators knew they were not making a perfect translation. They said so. And they fully acknowledged that there would be deviations on their translation compared to other scholarly translators. From the link you posted....

But it is high time to leave them, and to show in brief what we proposed to ourselves, and what course we held in this our perusal and survey of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had been true in some sort, that our people had been fed with gall of Dragons instead of wine, with whey instead of milk; but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark.

Next.....

To be Christian is to be grafted into Israel. And being grafted into the tree of the Patriarchs. That does not mean the grafted in branches supersede the natural branches or the Patriarchs. And therein lies the problem. Many have taken upon themselves to be Israel even though they have only been grafted in by way of the atonement of the Messiah of Israel.

Romans 11:16-18 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

And the New Covenant was made with Jacob (all the tribes), not the "church". Keep in mind, up till Acts 10, the entire "church" was exclusively Hebrew. When Yeshua established the New Covenant at the Last Supper, only Hebrews were present.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord

The "church" was never part of the Sinai Covenant. That was made with the Hebrews brought out of Egypt. Likewise, the very same is in view regarding the New Covenant.

Those that are not Jacob (Israel) that accept Yeshua and are redeemed are grafted in to the tree of Israel. They do not replace Israel or become Israel nor are the misplaced, unknown Israel that have "come home to Papa". The church does not supersede Israel.

And that does not negate the scripture that all of Jacob (Israel) will be restored as a physical national identity in the Messianic Kingdom, separate of the non-Hebrew nations that will also be part of the Messianic Kingdom, of which those that are redeemed now and make up the bride of Messiah will rule over with a rod of iron along side Messiah. Revelation 2:26-27