Reasons Jews Reject Jesus

[Matthias]

I’m glad to hear that. I’m here to dialogue with people from various faith traditions, not to rile them.




I’m actually on record here as saying that I’ve changed my mind before and that I’m open to the possibility of changing my mind again.

I’m willing to change my mind. Is he? Are others? I don’t know.

Question. How can a person change his or her mind about something, anything, which can’t be discussed?

By policy and intent, this board isn’t set up for the purpose of changing minds. This board operates on a social club model - not that there’s anything inherently wrong with that.

 

[Waiting on him]

I’m willing to change my mind. Is he? Are others? I don’t know.

Question. How can a person change his or her mind about something, anything, which can’t be discussed?

By policy and intent, this board isn’t set up for the purpose of changing minds. This board operates on a social club model - not that there’s anything inherently wrong with that.

Would you be willing to expand on the idea of Jesus practicing Judaism?

 

[Matthias]

Would you be willing to expand on the idea of Jesus practicing Judaism?

I started a thread on the subject a few months ago but the moderators recently deleted it when a trinitarian member of the board reported it and demanded that it be removed. The only explanation I was given is that the thread discussed the topic that must never be discussed here - which was not the topic of the thread.

Jesus practicing Judaism has theological implications. The maturity level of the board isn’t conducive to elaboration on the subject, which was demonstrated in the now deleted thread.

 

[Waiting on him]

I started a thread on the subject a few months ago but the moderators recently deleted it when a trinitarian member of the board reported it and demanded that it be removed. The only explanation I was given is that the thread discussed the topic that must never be discussed here - which was not the topic of the thread.

Jesus practicing Judaism has theological implications. The maturity level of the board isn’t conducive to elaboration on the subject, which was demonstrated in the now deleted thread.

I don’t really know what to say, other than believes should be able to stand against the least little bit of scrutiny… if not then people should consider the possibility that their believes are false.

 

[Waiting on him]

I started a thread on the subject a few months ago but the moderators recently deleted it when a trinitarian member of the board reported it and demanded that it be removed. The only explanation I was given is that the thread discussed the topic that must never be discussed here - which was not the topic of the thread.

Jesus practicing Judaism has theological implications. The maturity level of the board isn’t conducive to elaboration on the subject, which was demonstrated in the now deleted thread.

I can’t really say much too their myopic views due to the fact, I was once a bigot myself. The problem with critical thinking is…. You have to be willing to question your own truths.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I’m actually on record here as saying that I’ve changed my mind before and that I’m open to the possibility of changing my mind again.

Really, is this your quote that reflects openness to change ... flexibility?
"We’ve had this conversation before. You haven’t changed your mind and I haven’t changed mine. I respect that."

You know it's odd that in 32 years I've never met a Christian that adamantly or even mildly claimed to be an anti-Nicene Christian. Likey there aren't many.
Christians recognized the deity of Christ long before the Council of Niceae. You can't get through the book of John without recognizing that specific theme.
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life". Just that verse alone is so powerful and deep. You are following tje Way but ...
Do you know what TRUTH means? Reality, all reality lies within Him. " In Him all things consist ( are held together); meaning - every atom in the universe.
Do you know what LIFE is? He is saying I am the source of all life , physical and spiritual. All things were created by Him through Him and for Him, visible and invisible - everything. So He did not create himself.

 

[Matthias]

I don’t really know what to say, other than believes should be able to stand against the least little bit of scrutiny… if not then people should consider the possibility that their believes are false.

Succinct and to the point. Excellent. I’m in full agreement with what you’ve said here.

I don’t want to believe something which is false and I sure don’t want to teach others to believe something which is false. I frequently pray to the Messiah’s God, my God, asking him specifically to show me if I’m mistaken about something. He has done so in the past and I believe he will in the present, as well as in the future.

 

[Matthias]

I can’t really say much too their myopic views due to the fact, I was once a bigot myself. The problem with critical thinking is…. You have to be willing to question your own truths.

I examine what I believe regularly and hold open the possibility that what I believe about something, anything, might be incorrect. That’s an important aspect - but not the only aspect - of why I ask others about what they believe and why they believe it.

 

[Matthias]

Really, is this your quote that reflects openness to change ... flexibility?
"We’ve had this conversation before. You haven’t changed your mind and I haven’t changed mine. I respect that."

Yes. More precisely, a restatement of my openness to change, flexibility.

Are you open to change what you believe?

A time frame question. About how long would you say that it takes people to make such a dramatic change about what they believe concerning God?

You know it's odd that in 32 years I've never met a Christian that adamantly or even mildly claimed to be an anti-Nicene Christian. Likey there aren't many.

Your phrasing here jumps off the page at me. Is it an intentional word play?

I’m adamant about being an Ante-Nicene Christian. I’m not adamant about being an anti-Nicene Christian. Do you understand the difference?

I feel pretty confident that you’ve met many anti-Nicene Christians in your lifetime. They aren’t supposed to speak about it on the board, though many do anyway. They’re skating on thin ice. I’m aware of several of them being banned during my brief time on Christianity Board.

There are millions of Ante-Nicene Christians in the world and some are active members of Christianity Board. I accept your anecdotal statement that you’ve never met any - myself excepted - during that span of time who adamantly (like me, for instance) or mildly claim to be representatives of Ante-Nicene Christianity.

Christians recognized the deity of Christ long before the Council of Niceae.

That’s true, as far as it goes.

Before the Council of Nicaea -> before 325 A.D. -> Ante-Nicene Christianity.

The writings preserved, in whole and in part, from the Ante-Nicene period of Christianity documents that some Christians did and some Christians didn’t. Even early Church documents written after 325 document it. Have you read, for example, what Gregory of Nazianzus wrote about it in AD 380? (It’s remarkable, as the noted Church historian Philip Schaff points out in his work, History of the Christian Church.)

If you haven’t read it, I highly recommend to all our readers (trinitarian and non-trinitarian alike) a book on the subject written by Dr. Harold O.J. Brown. The title of the book is Heresies: Heresy And Orthodoxy In The History Of The Church. (This is an excellent trinitarian source. He wrote for the specific purpose of persuading people who have left the orthodoxy of Nicaea and Chalcedon to return to that faith.)

You can't can't through the book of John without recognizing that specific theme.
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life". Just that verse alone is so powerful and deep. You are following tje Way but ...
Do you know what TRUTH means? Reality, all reality lies within Him. " In Him all things consist ( are held together); meaning - every atom in the universe.
Do you know what LIFE is? He is saying I am the source of all life , physical and spiritual. All things were created by Him through Him and for Him, visible and invisible - everything. So He did not create himself.

I’ll take your commentary on what he says under advisement.

Just curious. Do you think this is the first time I’ve heard this from anyone?

 

[Wrangler]

any translation that would describe the Son of God as "it", needs to be chucked!

No translation does this. The converse is true; some incorrectly identify it as the Son of God.

 

[Mr E]

I’m willing to change my mind. Is he? Are others? I don’t know.

Question. How can a person change his or her mind about something, anything, which can’t be discussed?

By policy and intent, this board isn’t set up for the purpose of changing minds. This board operates on a social club model - not that there’s anything inherently wrong with that.

It's the saddest thing that could be said about this wonderful place.

There are folks here who say this one thing that must not be mentioned is central to their faith, ----and it MUST NOT be discussed.

It's a sorry symptom of zealotry. Like trying to discuss election interference, or climate change or vaccine efficacy. If you are going to question it-- you are a denier! You must be silenced.

A discussion is what is needed most--- and it terrifies them.

 

[Matthias]

No translation does this. The converse is true; some incorrectly identify it as the Son of God.

The Jews I’ve spoken with have shown very little interest in discussing John’s Gospel.* In fact, they have had an aversion to it, as they generally have toward discussing any of the books of the New Testament. I’ve found them to be far more interested in discussing the Pentateuch.

I’ve used the Tyndale Bible and the Geneva Bible in conversations with Jews about the prologue in John’s Gospel. Those, and numerous other translations just like them, have been very effective in coaxing a conversation with them. They‘ve quickly picked up on what John is saying in the prologue. (Note, however, that this doesn’t mean that they’ve gone on to believe that a first century Jew from Nazareth is the promised Messiah.)

Have you had a similar experience to mine?

* Messianic Jews excepted. They love talking about all of the books contained in the New Testament.

 

[APAK]

So Christ is a 'created being?"
Yes-No?
I really don't want to waste my time with you.
Johann.

Yes, the Son of God is a human being created by my and his God, the Father of us. And Mary was part of that procreation activity. She was not just a chosen suitable vessel for carrying the fertilized cell, zygote, fetus, baby. She was a real human participant from the line of David. David's genes were part of the man called Yahshua/Jesus.

Why do you have a very hard time believing scripture when it plainly says that the Spirit of God with Mary CREATED begot a unique (monogenes) human being. You most probably have no trouble believing that the Spirit of God had a big hand in the conception of Isaac, right?

It's your Creeds that lie to you and say Jesus was NOT MADE. I believe in scripture and its clearly embedded creeds of scripture, not those fake ones invented by false teachings....

See what the RCC is entertaining today, another creed (statement of faith) of sorts for the 21st century. A LGBT+ inclusion creed that will accommodate these mental and spiritually misguided freaks into their religious fold and the Protestants will fall in line soon afterwards.

As in the 3rd-4th centuries the RCC and their false Creeds depicting a false Christ and Father, they are now at it again, with the usual power politics, corruption and persecution against those that oppose them. It might be the right time now to begin to think and reweigh your beliefs and choose the real and true Christ and his Father who is the only and true God.

You know scripture speaks to this critical point that Yahshua's Father is the only true God. You know where to find it of course in scripture? And you won't find it in any religious creed either.

.

 

[Johann]

Yes, the Son of God is a human being created by my and his God, the Father of us. And Mary was part of that procreation activity. She was not just a chosen suitable vessel for carrying the fertilized cell, zygote, fetus, baby. She was a real human participant from the line of David. David's genes were part of the man called Yahshua/Jesus.

Why do you have a very hard time believing scripture when it plainly says that the Spirit of God with Mary CREATED begot a unique (monogenes) human being. You most probably have no trouble believing that the Spirit of God had a big hand in the conception of Isaac, right?

It's your Creeds that lie to you and say Jesus was NOT MADE. I believe in scripture and its clearly embedded creeds of scripture, not those fake ones invented by false teachings....

See what the RCC is entertaining today, another creed (statement of faith) of sorts for the 21st century. A LGBT+ inclusion creed that will accommodate these mental and spiritually misguided freaks into their religious fold and the Protestants will fall in line soon afterwards.

As in the 3rd-4th centuries the RCC and their false Creeds depicting a false Christ and Father, they are now at it again, with the usual power politics, corruption and persecution against those that oppose them. It might be the right time now to begin to think and reweigh your beliefs and choose the real and true Christ and his Father who is the only and true God.

You know scripture speaks to this critical point that Yahshua's Father is the only true God. You know where to find it of course in scripture? And you won't find it in any religious creed either.

.

I don't go by creeds-where was Jesus BEFORE He became something He was not before-in the likeness of man?

Php_2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Simple question, right?
Johann.

 

[Grailhunter]

@Wrangler @VictoryinJesus @Mr E @Jim B

The reasons the Jews rejected Yeshua as the Messiah.

There are so many topics that illustrate why there are so many denominations and this is one of them.

There are truths in this topic that people do not like….that people do not believe….But I do not care about any of that. My ministry is about sharing the truth….from there it is up to God to weight on the hearts of those that He thinks deserve to know the truth.

There are two related topic here;
1. Why did the Jews reject Yeshua as the Messiah?
2. The belief of the preexisting Christ.

First I am going to address both at the same time.
Some Christians believe that Yeshua existed during the Old Testament period. And most Christians believe that the messianic prophecies in the Old Testament point to a God Messiah or that the Son of God was coming.

As a whole these beliefs are incorrect. Why? It they knew or if the prophecies fore told of the Son God coming to be the Messiah. Or if Yeshua was an active God in the Old Testament…..THEN it would have filled the Old Testament scriptures ….particularly the prophetic books. What would be more important to talk about? If these two beliefs were true it would probably appear directly or indirectly on nearly every page of the prophetic books….the Son of God is coming! They would be shouting it from the mountain tops and dancing in the streets. And the prophecies did clearly indicate that the Messiah would take out there oppressors and put them in power. This makes up a good part of the prophecies.

The one thing you would not have to do is get a magnifying glass out and comb through the Old Testament scriptures looking for a God Messiah. You would not have to comb through scriptures looking for Yeshua or the Son of God existing or active in the Old Testament scriptures. To the contrary Yahweh made it clear several times that He was the only God and there was no one like Him. And I will add that a God having three aspects is strictly Pagan.

So these two beliefs are in error in some way. Plus the fact the Jews did not believe in a God Messiah. Which is the number one reason why the Sanhedrin condemned Him and set him to the Romans to be crucified. They were going to kill Him one way or the other, but Yeshua was a public figure by then and the Jews did not have the authority to execute people. So they turned Him over to the Romans saying that He was proclaiming Himself to be Jewish King. They knew how the Romans would react to this. And the reason for the sign at the top of the cross about Him being a Jewish King.

The Jews were expecting a human warlord king, that would take out their oppressors and put them in power and his kingdom would be everlasting.

That is what they believed from the Old Testament prophecies and historically this can be proven that they believed this because the Jews put in on their pottery and were eyeing up Jewish military leaders as being possible Messiahs during the revolts that occurred before Christ.

And this is probably one of the reasons that Yeshua kept the fact that He was the Son of God a secret, some times after performing miracles He would tell them to keep it a secret. Most certainly if He made it clear during His ministry that He was the Son of God, the Messiah and or the King of the Jews…..His ministry would not have lasted long. Either the Jews or the Romans would have got Him.

Were there other reasons that the Jews rejected or had issues with Yeshua?
When you read the Gospels note the number of times the Jews come to Him and question Him. Yeshua was a Jew and the Apostles were Jews and the Jews saw Him as a leader of a new Jewish sect and they came to Him to see how inline with Jewish beliefs He was. A new Jewish sect….there were a few Jewish sects at the time, so it was not completely unheard of.

What the Jews realized was that Yeshua was critical of the Jews and the Jewish leadership and at times challenged the Mosaic Law. And He did, the Mosaic Law is very clear on divorce and very clear on the Law of a life for a life….So this is another reason why the Jews had issues with Him. He is not telling them that He was the Messiah so that is not the point….until later.

His own Apostles and disciples were taken back by some of the things He said…namely about divorce and He lost most of His disciples over the eat my body and drink by blood requirement because that would seem very Pagan to them.

Instead of being a warrior Messiah, Christ preached love and forgiveness and this might have been the reason that Judas betrayed Him.

Some believe that the rejection of Yeshua was because the Jews were hateful. And some of that maybe true. Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Let His blood be on us and our Children! That worked out to be a curse for them that lasted for centuries. The Jews became a despised people, the Roman never like them and the Gentile Christians really had no use for them and over the centuries most countries persecuted them and expelled them and they were tortured and killed during the inquisitions.

So there were a few reasons why the Jews rejected Yeshua then and today. But this brings up some questions.

1. What changed between the testaments that the Messiah would be a God?

2. The Jews were expecting for Elijah to return in a fiery chariot to introduce the Messiah….that did not happen…why?

So no matter what there are always questions.

 

[Matthias]

Category. This thread.

“I’ll take ’This thread‘ for $500, Alex.”

“Longevity prognosis.”

“What is, ‘Not long for this world?”’

“Correct! Go away.”

 

[Johann]

@Wrangler @VictoryinJesus @Mr E @Jim B

The reasons the Jews rejected Yeshua as the Messiah.

There are so many topics that illustrate why there are so many denominations and this is one of them.

There are truths in this topic that people do not like….that people do not believe….But I do not care about any of that. My ministry is about sharing the truth….from there it is up to God to weight on the hearts of those that He thinks deserve to know the truth.

There are two related topic here;
1. Why did the Jews reject Yeshua as the Messiah?
2. The belief of the preexisting Christ.

First I am going to address both at the same time.
Some Christians believe that Yeshua existed during the Old Testament period. And most Christians believe that the messianic prophecies in the Old Testament point to a God Messiah or that the Son of God was coming.

You don't believe our Lord Christ Jesus preexisted-you care about sharing the truth-so am I.

Why? It they knew or if the prophecies fore told of the Son God coming to be the Messiah. Or if Yeshua was an active God in the Old Testament…..THEN it would have filled the Old Testament scriptures ….particularly the prophetic books. What would be more important to talk about? If these two beliefs were true it would probably appear directly or indirectly on nearly every page of the prophetic books….the Son of God is coming! They would be shouting it from the mountain tops and dancing in the streets. And the prophecies did clearly indicate that the Messiah would take out there oppressors and put them in power. This makes up a good part of the prophecies.


The one thing you would not have to do is get a magnifying glass out and comb through the Old Testament scriptures looking for a God Messiah. You would not have to comb through scriptures looking for Yeshua or the Son of God existing or active in the Old Testament scriptures. To the contrary Yahweh made it clear several times that He was the only God and there was no one like Him. And I will add that a God having three aspects is strictly Pagan.

So these two beliefs are in error in some way. Plus the fact the Jews did not believe in a God Messiah. Which is the number one reason why the Sanhedrin condemned Him and set him to the Romans to be crucified. They were going to kill Him one way or the other, but Yeshua was a public figure by then and the Jews did not have the authority to execute people. So they turned Him over to the Romans saying that He was proclaiming Himself to be Jewish King. They knew how the Romans would react to this. And the reason for the sign at the top of the cross about Him being a Jewish King.

The Jews were expecting a human warlord king, that would take out their oppressors and put them in power and his kingdom would be everlasting.

That is what they believed from the Old Testament prophecies and historically this can be proven that they believed this because the Jews were eyeing up Jewish military leaders as being possible Messiahs during the revolts that occurred before Christ.

And this is probably one of the reasons that Yeshua kept the fact that He was the Son of God a secret, some times after performing miracles He would tell them to keep it a secret. Most certainly if He made it clear during His ministry that He was the Son of God, the Messiah and or the King of the Jews…..His ministry would not have lasted long. Either the Jews or the Romans would have got Him.

Were there other reasons that the Jews rejected or had issues with Yeshua?
When you read the Gospels note the number of times the Jews come to Him and question Him. Yeshua was a Jew and the Apostles were Jews and the Jews saw Him as a leader of a new Jewish sect and they came to Him to see how inline with Jewish beliefs He was. A new Jewish sect….there were a few Jewish sects at the time, so it was not completely unheard of.

What the Jews realized was that Yeshua was critical of the Jews and the Jewish leadership and at times challenged the Mosaic Law. And He did, the Mosaic Law is very clear on divorce and very clear on the Law of a life for a life….So this is another reason why the Jews had issues with Him. He is not telling them that He was the Messiah so that is not the point….until later.

His own Apostles and disciples were taken back by some of the things He said…namely about divorce and He lost most of His disciples over the eat my body and drink by blood requirement because that would seem very Pagan to them.

Instead of being a warrior Messiah, Christ preached love and forgiveness and this might have been the reason that Judas betrayed Him.

Some believe that the rejection of Yeshua was because the Jews were hateful. And some of that maybe true. Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Let His blood be on us and our Children! That worked out to be a curse for them that lasted for centuries. The Jews became a despised people, the Roman never like them and the Gentile Christians really had no use for them and over the centuries most countries persecuted them and expelled them and they were tortured and killed during the inquisitions.

So there were a few reasons why the Jews rejected Yeshua then and today. But this brings up some questions.

1. What changed between the testaments that the Messiah would be a God?

2. The Jews were expecting for Elijah to return in a fiery chariot to introduce the Messiah….that did not happen…why?

So no matter what there are always questions.

Just philosophizing-
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Wait-WHERE was Messiah/Christ? Who is the Arm of the Lord-and THE Angel of the Lord?
This is Christ in the OT. Yes?

1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

"same spiritual drink" This refers to the miraculous provision of water (Exod. 17:6; Num. 20:8ff).

"they were drinking from a spiritual rock" Rock is a title for YHWH in the OT which emphasizes His strength and permanence (cf. Deut. 32:4,15; Ps. 18:2; 19:14). It is also used of the Messianic Kingdom as a destroying force (cf. Dan. 2:45).



"which followed them" These seem to refer to a rabbinical legend based on Exod. 17:6 and Num. 20:11ff, that the rock followed the Israelites and that it was the Messiah. This tradition is specifically mentioned in the Koran.

"and the rock was Christ" This is a rabbinical typology (the personification of the rock may have come from Num. 21:17 or Deut. 32:4,15,18,30, cf. Targum Onkelos on Numbers 21). God provided life-giving water during the wilderness wandering period. Paul sees an analogy between God's provision then and God's life-giving provision now. Paul's theology viewed Christ as pre-existent and as the Father's agent of life and blessing. Jesus has always been God the Father's fullest provision and greatest blessing.

Like you-I also want to share truth.
Johann.

 

[Grailhunter]

You don't believe our Lord Christ Jesus preexisted-you care about sharing the truth-so am I.

I explained why it does not seem that way. He is not active. Find a scripture where by name Yeshua is doing something in the Old Testament. Or Yahweh and Yeshua are talking to each other.....every thing else is Yahweh saying I am the only God and there is no one like me.
Of course there could be more to the story....but still no specific activity that the Old Testament attributes to Yeshua or the Son of God.

Just philosophizing-
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

I know that some Christians believe the prophecies point to Yeshua.

There is no activity by Yeshua in the Old Testament.

No God designated as the Son of God.

And Yahweh repeated over and over again that He was the only God and no one like Him.

The active God of the Old Testament was Yahweh.

Like I said, if Yeshua was active it would be clear....if the Son of God was prophesied to be the Messiah it would fill the pages of the prophetic books and you and I would not be debating this.

 

[Johann]

I explained why it does not seem that way. He is not active. Find a scripture where by name Yeshua is doing something in the Old Testament. Or Yahweh and Yeshua are talking to each other.....every thing else is Yahweh saying I am the only God and there is no one like me.
Of course there could be more to the story....but still no specific activity that the Old Testament attributes to Yeshua or the Son of God.


I know that some Christians believe the prophecies point to Yeshua.

There is no activity by Yeshua in the Old Testament.

No God designated as the Son of God.

And Yahweh repeated over and over again that He was the only God and no one like Him.

The active God of the Old Testament was Yahweh.

Like I said, if Yeshua was active it would be clear....if the Son of God was prophesied to be the Messiah it would fill the pages of the prophetic books and you and I would not be debating this.

I'm not here to debate-just hopefully make people think-analytically and critically-many claim they read the Bible only-not using secondary sources. I have posted on the preexistence of Jesus Christ and His Deity-given links, and many don't open it.

You will find so much information-that is, when you know where to look.
God bless.
Johann.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm not here to debate-just hopefully make people think-analytically and critically-many claim they read the Bible only-not using secondary sources. I have posted on the preexistence of Jesus Christ and His Deity-given links, and many don't open it.

You will find so much information-that is, when you know where to look.
God bless.
Johann.

I understand it is a common belief and to support your side of the discussion it is not without biblical support.

And sola scriptura has several problems because with all the contradictory scriptures they have a religion of tap dancing to try to harmonize the scriptures.....To make this clear I am saying this to you with tongue in cheek and humor....you have your tap dancing shoes on? You must hate your father and mother to be a disciple of Christ and Christ said “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Do you want some background music with that?

The problem is that the preexisting Christ and Christ as Almighty and the Creator God does not fly with the Bible as a whole.