Reasons why the Jehovah’s Witness religion is false (Despite my love for them as human beings)

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

JohnPaul

Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Jun 10, 2019
3,274
2,567
113
New Jersey
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Apostles were to confirm the Word of God (like Scripture) by miracles that they did.

Mark 16:20 says,
“And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”

For example: Do you see Christians today speaking in tongues and prophesying when they first believe the gospel message (for salvation) as a normative thing? No. Yet, we see this in the early church. So this tells you things have changed.

We don’t need to keep confirming the apostle’s words as authoritative Scripture. We know it is true based on many good reasons or evidences.
I don’t believe in speaking in tongues.
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
989
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Good for you.

Yes, I know it is good to expose evil.
Lets do some more of that involving the false JW religion.

Isaiah 43:10 in the New World Translation (at JW.org) says,
“You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah,“Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One.Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.” (Isaiah 43:10) (NWT).

This one verse in the JW bible should refute the false JW religion because God says there is no God before Him and or after Him.
The JW folk say in their own translation that Jesus is a god in John 1:1 (even though you also state he is an angel).

To make matters worse for the JW cult follower, Isaiah 43:11 says in the New World Translation (at JW.org) says,

“I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” (Isaiah 43:11) (NWT).

Yet, the JW translation says this:

“But this man offered one sacrifice for sins for all time and sat down at the right hand of God,” (Hebrews 10:12) (NWT).

There is no Savior next to God and yet we read about how Jesus (Who is the Savior) sat down at the right hand of God.
We know God speaks many times in the OT prophetically. For God to say this in the OT would be a contradiction to one of the most notable events in bible history.

So the JW translation contradicts itself.

Anyways, I know it’s good for me to expose false ways like the JW religion. Hebrews 6:5 says that the word is good. Psalms (the word) tells me to hate every false way (Psalms 119:104). Paul tells us to reprove the unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11). Paul tells us to Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good (Romans 12:9). It’s good that I expose a cult that lies to people and abuses them.

2 Peter 2:1
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”
 
Last edited:

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
989
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don’t believe in speaking in tongues.

I believe tongues was a legitimate thing done in the early church.
Tongues is tied to prophesy, and there is no more prophecy today because we have the Bible now.

There is no need for added books, writings, traditions, visions, prophets, etcetera. Just the “Word of God (the Bible) plus the Anointing to Understand It” is all we need to know God’s will for our lives and to know His precious truths.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 and 1 John 2:27 sums up these truths pretty well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,556
12,968
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Reasons why the Jehovah’s Witness religion is false;
#1. Jehovah’s Witnesses religion came about during the time period of other false religions in the latter half of the 19th century.
#2. Charles Taze Russell (the founder of the JW organization starting in the 1870’s) was divorced in 1911 by his wife because he his immoral acts with other women (Source).
#3. Charles Taze Russel stated he was able to read Greek, but when he was in court, he was exposed as being a liar because he could not translate even the most simple Greek alphabet (Source).

Irrelevant.

#4. The Jehovah’s Witness organization made multiple false prophecies that never came true.

Guesswork is nothing new among the whole world.

#5. JW leader Rutherford was a drunkard (i.e. he was an alcoholic).

Not a phenomenon. Alcoholism is not exclusive to any group or organization.

#6. Like the Catholic Church, the JW organization has covered up child sexual abuse scandals within their own church.

Not a phenomenon. Sexual abuse is an individuals demon.

#7. JW’s are to hate those who leave their organization.

Literature that confirms this accusation?


#8. The JW cult like mindset.

What religious organization ISN’T a CULT?

#9. JW’s state that you cannot understand the Bible without their help.

So? Doesn’t EVERY religious organization claim to be TEACHERS?

#10. JW’s teach that it is sinful and idolatrous to pray to Jesus Christ.

Literature that confirms this accusation?



@Bible Highlighter can you confirm with JW literature your # 7, #10 accusations?

TY.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,556
12,968
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I would encourage believers here to read the ex testimonies of Jehovah's Witnesses to see how they lied to them and how they took advantage of them in ways that were not correct or good.

Ex-Jehovah’s Witness Testimonies

encourage believers here to read the ex testimonies of Jehovah's Witnesses

Read “ex testimonies”....? A typo?

I read, and so? What organization doesn’t take advantage of using their adherents to spread their beliefs?
Isn’t that what Jesus taught?
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. The Scriptures were inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16). So it was God who is the ultimate author.

goes without saying
But the church has authority from Christ
The church existed before the New Testament scripture
The church exercised authority before they had scripture
Christ taught his church in person for three years, did they need to wait for scripture to know what to do?
The church says what is and what is not scripture
Scripture was approved by the church in 381 the whole Bible not you’re stingy 66 books
Ever read the faith story of susana in Dan 13 it’s not in you’re heretical bibles
The scripture belongs to the church not to you fundamentalist heretics but to the communion of saints


The early church existed, but the Catholic Church is not like the early church by a long shot because there was no RCC practices done by the early church. Only the Catholic Church that emerged later in history added the extra biblical Catholic sacraments (of which we do not find in the Bible). Yes, you have sacraments like baptism, but it is not called that in the Bible and you make up the whole infancy baptism thing.

The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!

Water and the spirit!

First creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(water and the spirit)

Noah:

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…

(Water and the spirit)

Red Sea:

Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

(Water and the spirit)

Josuha

Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

(Water and the spirit)

Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise”

(Water and the Spirit)

Baptism of Jesus

Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

(Water and the spirit)

New creation by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Water and the spirit)

Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!

There is no such thing as the extra biblical Catholic sacraments because they are not written in the Bible.

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!




The Catholic Church is not the one true church because they bow down to idol statues, and worship many gods like the saints and they turn the Lord’s supper into an abomination not described in Scripture. Rome does not change. They used to be into polytheism before they supposedly went Christian. You guys worship skulls in some circles. You uplift men in holy clothing. It’s a joke. Sorry. It just is. It’s so obviously fake when compared to a study of the Bible alone and comparing the early church with your church. The two are not alike in any sense of the word. But again, this thread I don’t think is for you because you are not really concerned about giving reasons as to why the JW religion is false. You are just speaking about your false religion. That does not help things. Again, either participate in the thread in exposing the JW religion from a normal biblical perspective and or based on why that cult is false from general evidence or move on. This thread is not about Catholicism that you are promoting. Catholicism is no different than the JW religion because you both added something extra to the Bible that contradicts it. So you are not really helping things here.

more below
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No we do not worship idols or saints
God alone may be worshipped

you’re heretical sect has no possibility of true worship of God
No temple
No priesthood
No propitiatory sacrifice
No censor with inscence
No sacraments
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27


A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Faith alone” unbiblical!

WATER AND THE SPIRIT!
Baptismal regeneration is the biblical mandate!!!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say accept infants!)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Biblical Mary, mother of God, ever Virgin, sinless, mother of our salvation!

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary!
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Without Mary being immaculate the Holy Spirit could not conceive the “holy” son of God in Her!

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 and cos she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

Spiritual Mother Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17

Mother of the creator is mother of all creation!

Mother of the Redeemer is the mother of all the redeemed!

Mother of our Savior is the mother of all those who obtain salvation!
Lk 1:30
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Fundamentalism is spiritual blindness!

thick black scales!

The nature of pride is protest, rebellion, and like the father of pride satan who says “I will not serve”!

Christian virtue of humility always is found in submission, obedience, and always says “Thy will be done, not mine”!

Protestant fundamentalism is based on pride, presumption, and arrogance!

The doctrine of demons has built in vices!

Jn 8:32 the truth shall make you free! So false doctrine shall hold you in bondage!

Spiritual blindness!

Saul thought he was doing the will of God and acting righteously with correct faith!

Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Thy zeal has blinded thee to the truth!

True Christians are humble, obedient and faithful! The just live by faith!

The nature of pride always says no I will not serve, like the father of pride! Pride always protests and lives in rebellion!

The source of truth and the rule of faith is Christ and His church!

To reject the church or her teaching is to reject Christ who founded her and commanded her to teach all nations! Matt 16:18 and 28:19 must hear the church Matt 18:17 church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

Protestant fundamentalism is
Pure spiritual blindness, thick black scales!

Producing only:

Spiritual anarchy and chaos!


God establishes “peace and order” thru obedience to hierarchical /jurisdictional authority!

Peter matt 16:18
The apostles Matt 18:18
Jn 29:21-23 eph 2:20 eph 5:24 eph 5:32
Jn 15:1-5
Apostolic succession acts 1:26


Personifies saul:

A fundamentalist going by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

Not scripture plus private judgement

But guided by the teaching office of Christ and his church!

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.





The “Bible alone” is not the rule of faith for Christians!
Or you’re own spiritual pride prejudiced private judgement, but the teaching authority of the apostles!

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 17:11 does not say or mean what you think it does.

They gladly received the teaching of the apostle.

The did not act out of pride, presumption, and arrogance like heretics do.

They did not say we protest and make rebellion against youre teaching unless we find it in scripture!

The teaching authority of the apostles is absolute and without question!

Lk 10:16 he who hears you hears me! Period
Not he who hears you and searches the scripture and uses personal judgement based on pride hears me!

You have no right to use scripture against the church, the church IS the pillar and ground of truth and must be heard! 1 Tim 3:15 matt 18:17 you may search the scriptures to see that it is so!

To question or reject the church or her teaching is to reject Christ! Acts 9:4


Saul thought he was doing the will of God and acting righteously, and I’m sure could quote scripture to prove it, but was full of pride, presumption, and arrogance, spiritual blindness and the same is true of all heretics! It’s all pride and personal judgement!

And none of it can stand the blinding light of Jesus Christ!

The virtues of a Christian are not pride, presumption, arrogance, protests, and rebellion.

The virtues of a Christian are humility, obedience, and submission to proper authority, full acceptance of Christ and his holy church and all she proposes for belief!

The apostles having the same mission, ministry, power, and authority of Christ!

We must be taught by the apostles, and their successors! Lk 1:4 Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Eph 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Saul was persecuting the church, and Christ said “why persecute me”? Acts 9:4

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 10:16

Jn 15:1-5 Christ united to his apostles (the church) bearing fruit! (The salvation of souls)

The church and the apostles exist by his commands and authority! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 20:21-23

There is an unbreakable union between Christ and His Holy Church!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 mt 18:17 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Gates of hell shall NOT PREVAIL!

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors, it is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Ark of Salvation!

The church is founded by Christ and the sacraments are instituted by Christ for the salvation of all men!

The church and Jesus are one: acts 9:4 Jn 15:1-5 eph 5:32

The church and the sacraments are necessary for and the means of salvation and the life of grace!

Redemption: Eph 2
Justification: Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Acts 2:38
Sanctification: Jn 1:16 Jn 10:10 Jn 15:5
Salvation: Matt 24:13 Rom 13:11

The body of Christ:
1 Corinthians 12:27

The one true church:
Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16

The household of faith:
Gal 6:10

The house of God:
1 Tim 3:15

The church of the living God:
1 Tim 3:15

The kingdom of God on earth:
Dan 2:44 Matt 6:33 Matt 16:18 Matt 12:28 Mk 1:15 Jn 3:3-5 Acts 8:12 1 Cor 4:20 Col 4:11 1 Thes 2:12 Rev 1:9 12:10

The new and eternal covenant:
The one fold of Christ:

The new covenant body of Christ church is an ark, the ark of Peter, the ark of Noah was a type, all those outside the ark died, and all those outside the church die spiritually, there is no life outside of Noah’s ark and there is no spiritual life or salvation outside of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)


Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Ez 36:25 I (God) shall sprinkle you with pure water, and you shall be white as snow!




Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

God provides for everything:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way we must follow!
He is the truth we must believe!
He is the life, life of grace thru the sacraments of the church in which we must live!

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23

Confirmation
Mt 17:27 Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises or an oath of sacramental life of grace!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
HUMANUM GENUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON FREEMASONRY



To the Patriarchs, Primates, Archbishops, and
Bishops of the Catholic World in Grace and
Communion with the Apostolic See.


The race of man, after its miserable fall from God, the Creator and the Giver of heavenly gifts, "through the envy of the devil," separated into two diverse and opposite parts, of which the one steadfastly contends for truth and virtue, the other of those things which are contrary to virtue and to truth. The one is the kingdom of God on earth, namely, the true Church of Jesus Christ; and those who desire from their heart to be united with it, so as to gain salvation, must of necessity serve God and His only-begotten Son with their whole mind and with an entire will. The other is the kingdom of Satan, in whose possession and control are all whosoever follow the fatal example of their leader and of our first parents, those who refuse to obey the divine and eternal law, and who have many aims of their own in contempt of God, and many aims also against God.

2. This twofold kingdom St. Augustine keenly discerned and described after the manner of two cities, contrary in their laws because striving for contrary objects; and with a subtle brevity he expressed the efficient cause of each in these words: "Two loves formed two cities: the love of self, reaching even to contempt of God, an earthly city; and the love of God, reaching to contempt of self, a heavenly one."(1) At every period of time each has been in conflict with the other, with a variety and multiplicity of weapons and of warfare, although not always with equal ardour and assault. At this period, however, the partisans of evil seems to be combining together, and to be struggling with united vehemence, led on or assisted by that strongly organized and widespread association called the Freemasons. No longer making any secret of their purposes, they are now boldly rising up against God Himself. They are planning the destruction of holy Church publicly and openly, and this with the set purpose of utterly despoiling the nations of Christendom, if it were possible, of the blessings obtained for us through Jesus Christ our Saviour. Lamenting these evils, We are constrained by the charity which urges Our heart to cry out often to God: "For lo, Thy enemies have made a noise; and they that hate Thee have lifted up the head. They have taken a malicious counsel against Thy people, and they have consulted against Thy saints. They have said, 'come, and let us destroy them, so that they be not a nation.'(2)
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Matt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Christians should practice the virtues of Christ! Not satan!
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,767
989
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No we do not worship idols or saints
God alone may be worshipped

you’re heretical sect has no possibility of true worship of God
No temple
No priesthood
No propitiatory sacrifice
No censor with inscence
No sacraments

This really is not the thread on Catholicism and it’s problems. I am hoping to create a thread on Catholicism in the future (Just like what I did here for the JW’s). I only mentioned Catholicism briefly because you are speaking from the lens of Catholicism and not from the lens of the Bible (Whereby those verses make it irrefutable) that the JW’s are false. You also are not bringing up any evidence or facts by JW’s themselves that refutes their own false religion. You are only promoting Catholicism here (in your supposed attack against the false JW religion), and that is not the purpose of this thread. Your argument is weak and it is a distraction to the true intended purpose of this thread. Either make a case for why the JW religion is false from just using the Bible that all believers should agree with, and use historical facts, abuses, and wrong beliefs about the JW religion that simply refutes it. This really is not difficult to do by researching the internet. I have provided some really good points so far. So either join in or move on. Thank you. Peace be unto you in the Lord (even if I disagree with the darkness of your flavor of Christianity).
 
Last edited:

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This really is not the thread on Catholicism and it’s problems. I am hoping to create a thread on Catholicism in the future (Just like what I did here for the JW’s). I only mentioned Catholicism briefly because you are speaking from the lens of Catholicism and not from the lens of the Bible (Whereby those verses make it irrefutable) that the JW’s are false. You also are not bringing up any evidence or facts by JW’s themselves that refutes their own false religion. You are only promoting Catholicism here (in your supposed attack against the false JW religion), and that is not the purpose of this thread. Your argument is weak and it is a distraction to the true intended purpose of this thread. Either make a case for why the JW religion is false from just using the Bible that all believers should agree with, and use historical facts, abuses, and wrong beliefs about the JW religion that simply refutes it. This really is not difficult to do by researching the internet. I have provided some really good points so far. So either join in or move on. Thank you. Peace be unto you in the Lord (even if I disagree with the darkness of your flavor of Christianity).

let me know please
 

JohnPaul

Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Jun 10, 2019
3,274
2,567
113
New Jersey
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This really is not the thread on Catholicism and it’s problems. I am hoping to create a thread on Catholicism in the future (Just like what I did here for the JW’s). I only mentioned Catholicism briefly because you are speaking from the lens of Catholicism and not from the lens of the Bible (Whereby those verses make it irrefutable) that the JW’s are false. You also are not bringing up any evidence or facts by JW’s themselves that refutes their own false religion. You are only promoting Catholicism here (in your supposed attack against the false JW religion), and that is not the purpose of this thread. Your argument is weak and it is a distraction to the true intended purpose of this thread. Either make a case for why the JW religion is false from just using the Bible that all believers should agree with, and use historical facts, abuses, and wrong beliefs about the JW religion that simply refutes it. This really is not difficult to do by researching the internet. I have provided some really good points so far. So either join in or move on. Thank you. Peace be unto you in the Lord (even if I disagree with the darkness of your flavor of Christianity).
What lens do you speak through?
 

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
JW beliefs-

"the Colored race... have been and are a race of servants...
There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant"
— The Golden Age, July 24, 1929

"..the white race exhibits some qualities of superiority over any other.....
the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian.."— Zion's Watch Tower 07/15 1902

"..colored people have less education than whites.....
reading matter distributed to a colored congregation would more than half of it be utterly wasted"- Zion's Watch Tower 03/15 1900

http://www.jwbeliefs.com/jehovahs-witnesses-racism-blacks/