Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
So human beings are eternal beings?
Regeneration before or after saving faith
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Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Didn't you speak to me about idle words a bit back my friend?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Question: "Why did Jesus sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane?"
Answer: The night before Jesus Christ was crucified, He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. It is in Luke’s Gospel where we see that His sweat was like drops of blood: “And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground” (Luke 22:44). Hematidrosis is a rare, but very real, medical condition where one’s sweat will contain blood. The sweat glands are surrounded by tiny blood vessels. These vessels can constrict and then dilate to the point of rupture where the blood will then effuse into the sweat glands. Its cause—extremeanguish. In the other Gospel accounts, we see Jesus’ level of anguish: “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death” (Matthew 26:38; cf. Mark 14:34).
The intense anguish and sorrow Jesus felt was certainly understandable. Being God, Christ knew “all that was going to happen to Him” (John 18:4). He knew in painstaking detail the events that were to follow soon after He was betrayed by one of His very own disciples. He knew He was about to undergo several trials where all of the witnesses against Him would lie. He knew that many who had hailed Him as the Messiah only days earlier would now be screaming for His crucifixion (Luke 23:23). He knew He would be flogged nearly to the point of death before they pounded the metal spikes into His flesh. He knew the prophetic words of Isaiah spoken seven centuries earlier that He would be beaten so badly that He would be “disfigured beyond that of any man” and “beyond human likeness” (Isaiah 52:14). Certainly, these things factored into His great anguish and sorrow, causing Him to sweat drops of blood. Yet there was more.
Crucifixion was considered to be the most painful and torturous method of execution ever devised and was used on the most despised and wicked people. In fact, so horrific was the pain that a word was designed to help explain it—excruciating, which literally means “from the cross.” From His arrest in the garden until the time our Lord stated, “It is finished” (John 19:30), Scripture records only one instance where Jesus “cried out in a loud voice” (Matthew 27:46). As our sinless Savior bore the weight of the world’s sins on His shoulders, His Father must have looked away, as His “eyes are too pure to look on evil” (Habakkuk1:13), causing the suffering Servant to cry out “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”—“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Psalm 22:1; Matthew 27:46). The spiritual pain of this feeling of abandonment no doubt greatly exceeded the intense physical pain the Lord endured on our behalf.
At the beginning of creation, human history began in a garden (Genesis 2:8), and when the first Adam sinned against God in this garden, death entered the world (Genesis 3:6). Thousands of years later, Jesus Christ, the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45), entered into another garden to accept the cup from His Father’s hand (Matthew 26:42; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42), and death was about to be swallowed up in victory. Although God’s plan was designed before the creation of the world (Ephesians 1:4–5), we must never forget that its execution came at a great cost. Ultimately, then, we are the ones responsible for the blood that dripped from our Savior as He prayed in the garden. And we are the reason Jesus’ soul was overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Indeed, these bloodied sweat drops came at a great cost; let us never forget that.
That’s is what the article says.
Answer: The night before Jesus Christ was crucified, He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. It is in Luke’s Gospel where we see that His sweat was like drops of blood: “And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground” (Luke 22:44). Hematidrosis is a rare, but very real, medical condition where one’s sweat will contain blood. The sweat glands are surrounded by tiny blood vessels. These vessels can constrict and then dilate to the point of rupture where the blood will then effuse into the sweat glands. Its cause—extremeanguish. In the other Gospel accounts, we see Jesus’ level of anguish: “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death” (Matthew 26:38; cf. Mark 14:34).
The intense anguish and sorrow Jesus felt was certainly understandable. Being God, Christ knew “all that was going to happen to Him” (John 18:4). He knew in painstaking detail the events that were to follow soon after He was betrayed by one of His very own disciples. He knew He was about to undergo several trials where all of the witnesses against Him would lie. He knew that many who had hailed Him as the Messiah only days earlier would now be screaming for His crucifixion (Luke 23:23). He knew He would be flogged nearly to the point of death before they pounded the metal spikes into His flesh. He knew the prophetic words of Isaiah spoken seven centuries earlier that He would be beaten so badly that He would be “disfigured beyond that of any man” and “beyond human likeness” (Isaiah 52:14). Certainly, these things factored into His great anguish and sorrow, causing Him to sweat drops of blood. Yet there was more.
Crucifixion was considered to be the most painful and torturous method of execution ever devised and was used on the most despised and wicked people. In fact, so horrific was the pain that a word was designed to help explain it—excruciating, which literally means “from the cross.” From His arrest in the garden until the time our Lord stated, “It is finished” (John 19:30), Scripture records only one instance where Jesus “cried out in a loud voice” (Matthew 27:46). As our sinless Savior bore the weight of the world’s sins on His shoulders, His Father must have looked away, as His “eyes are too pure to look on evil” (Habakkuk1:13), causing the suffering Servant to cry out “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”—“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Psalm 22:1; Matthew 27:46). The spiritual pain of this feeling of abandonment no doubt greatly exceeded the intense physical pain the Lord endured on our behalf.
At the beginning of creation, human history began in a garden (Genesis 2:8), and when the first Adam sinned against God in this garden, death entered the world (Genesis 3:6). Thousands of years later, Jesus Christ, the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45), entered into another garden to accept the cup from His Father’s hand (Matthew 26:42; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42), and death was about to be swallowed up in victory. Although God’s plan was designed before the creation of the world (Ephesians 1:4–5), we must never forget that its execution came at a great cost. Ultimately, then, we are the ones responsible for the blood that dripped from our Savior as He prayed in the garden. And we are the reason Jesus’ soul was overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Indeed, these bloodied sweat drops came at a great cost; let us never forget that.
That’s is what the article says.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
I agree with what @SovereignGrace posted.
Now, do you want get it at what you're really after, or did that suffice?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Interesting, would you be willing to share with me what you believe?
Where is this quoted from? Yes, many are called and refuse.
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Acts 7:51
"You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Genesis 6:3
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
Luke 12:10
"And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.
Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
1 Thessalonians 5:19
Do not quench the Spirit;
Psalm 106:33
Because they were rebellious against His Spirit, He spoke rashly with his lips.
Zechariah 7:12
"They made their hearts like flint so that they could not hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets; therefore great wrath came from the LORD of hosts.
Calvinists impose their false teaching on scriptures that clearly place the blame for failing to become saved or remain saved on man.
If the elect are individually chosen, why is God convicting the non elect? That would serve no purpose in your system.
Oh, good grief. The man is not evil because he disagrees with your interpretation. He's not a heretic because he rejects Calvinism.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
How anyone can read this or say this and not see how they are puffing certain select group of people as better than others is beyond me
in fact, read the OT, and the beginning of the NT, does it not sound like the jews who said only THEY were elect and gentiles were lost and deserved what they Got?
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
It’s something I’ve not really studied. So, I defer to those who have. He was 100% man, too, so this is a documented episode that ppl have went through, though it’s rare.
Agree with what? That there are wicked and righteous? Of course, but the problem is, you read the whole passage through your "irresistibly chosen or irresistibly damned" lenses. As I said before, these are not irreversible categories. If they were, why does Paul have to keep encouraging us to live a certain way? Why does he say that God isn't willing that any should perish? The currently righteous are not perishing, so they aren't the ones in danger. In fact, in your system, they can no more perish than a turtle can flap his wings and fly to London. So, what is God being patient about? If every individual is pre chosen for one category or the other, most of the Bible is pointless.
2 Peter 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 "This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:"
sw3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things,
be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
You said:
"Notice it goes back and forth contrasting between the beloved elect, and the wicked....you said it does not divide between two groups??? care to look again?"
Ok, I looked again and I'll tell you what I see. The whole reason that Paul is contrasting two types of people is to teach those who are currently godly how to remain godly and to teach them that God wants to bring all into the kingdom. Why are we to be mindful of God's mercy and long suffering? So, that we may be merciful and long suffering also, towards everyone. So, that those who are now willfully ignorant may see that we have something worth possessing and may be won over.
And so that we may be careful not be led away into being wicked ourselves and fall away from the living God. There is heaven to gain and hell to shun, as Wesley would say. Far from the deterministic closed system where everyone is locked into being what they currently are, there is a real battle going on here between good and evil and all people are caught up in it, whether they know it or not.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Since the elect are chosen individually.
The reprobate doesn't have a sense of guilt before God? Of course they do, and it absolutely fits into the Biblical narrative. Many apparently non-elect individuals in Scripture were convicted of their evil ways. It only serves no purpose in your own mind but it does serve a purpose in the Biblical system as it shows the justice of God.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
So then you too agree that men are saved without the grace of God, and are chosen because they're "choice meat?"
Exactly, he's not willing that any person on the face on the earth perish but all to come to repentance. If you believe some are already guaranteed and destined for salvation, it makes no sense whatsoever. What need is there to be patient with those who can not do anything but what he has already destined them to do? Remember, everything in your system happens because of his decree, so there is no chance of an "elect" person ever ending up in hell. He is guaranteeing that each sheep be saved? In your system, that is already done, and each person destined to be lost has no chance of ever being in the group named "elect".
If that was the case, he could just skip the whole dying on the cross thing and create some people for himself in heaven and create some others to cast into hell. Why go through the whole sham if there is no real battle, not real choice. It's pointless.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Renniks,
Hello Renniks,
The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith
I agree with about 95% of what is contained in this fine study tool. Just read each sentence slowly because they took a good amount of time and study into the wording and scripture used.
Rennicks, do you understand that Calvinists know all these verses are there and agree with all of them?
Men resist the Holy Spirit by nature as they are spiritually dead...they can't do otherwise unless God enables them.
The teaching seems false to you because of those portions that you hold defectively.
Of course, sinful man is to blame. Not one Calvinist is part of the blame God crowd. Stop listening to the false teachings of Leighton Flowers.
Hello Renniks,
This is from The second London Baptist Confession of 1689...here take time and study through it.
The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith
I agree with about 95% of what is contained in this fine study tool. Just read each sentence slowly because they took a good amount of time and study into the wording and scripture used.
Rennicks, do you understand that Calvinists know all these verses are there and agree with all of them?
Men resist the Holy Spirit by nature as they are spiritually dead...they can't do otherwise unless God enables them.
The teaching seems false to you because of those portions that you hold defectively.
Of course, sinful man is to blame. Not one Calvinist is part of the blame God crowd. Stop listening to the false teachings of Leighton Flowers.
So, God has to put on a show and pretend he wants to save people he irresistibly will then cause to resist him? That's not Jesus. Sounds more like Allah, or some greek god playing games with humans.
Not, that would be you who believes some are chosen because God somehow sees them as better than others.
On the contrary, your theology puts all blame for every wicked deed directly on God.
"God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass.."
And I did not reject Calvinism because of Flowers. I rejected it before I had ever heard on the man, because I became exposed to it in a church and begin to see it for what it was, fatalism wrapped in out of context verses.
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