Regeneration before or after saving faith

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

That doesn't even make sense under your system. No one can perish unless God destined them to perish under your deterministic system. A person can commit adultery and murder 100 times a day as long as he is elect. And if he isn't elect, nothing will save him.

You have been told numerous times that no one believes in a fatalistic determinism. You keep saying it because you don't have a response.
Corporate election is a Leighton Flowers fantasy so you can contact him for that defective teaching.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

One reason you continue on in darkness is you make up your own gospel,and have not learned to read with comprehension.
It must be my fault. I asked you to look at 3 portions of scripture instead of one at a time.
Tell me in Ezk34.....does anyone become a sheep?
Or does God say His sheep, that means they are His already,become scattered and lost?

Any time @Renniks is refuted and corrected with Scripture he ignores it and stays on the same errant path.

Yet Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and follow him, John 10:27. There are those who hear of his sovereign election and go the John 6:66 route and no longer follow, they're offended that their will is not in control.

A false god made in the image of man will fill the void for them after rejecting and departing from truth. This way they maintain control and can offer oblations and praise to the false humanistic god of free will, that is, self.

 

[Renniks]

You have been told numerous times that no one believes in a fatalistic determinism. You keep saying it because you don't have a response.
Corporate election is a Leighton Flowers fantasy so you can contact him for that defective teaching.

Flowers didn't make up corporate election teaching. It's been around a lot longer than that.

 

[Renniks]

Yet Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and follow him, John 10:27. There are those who hear of his sovereign election and go the John 6:66 route and no longer follow, they're

So, we can choose to no longer follow? How arminian of you.

 

[Renniks]

You have been told numerous times that no one believes in a fatalistic determinism. You keep saying it because you don't have a response.

Explain to me how the elect can become non elect in your system or a reprobate become elect. No you can't, because it's all fated.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Nothing Calvinistic here. So God knew who would believe, not because they were irresistibly ordained to believe, but because he is God and knows who has prepared thier heart to receive him.

The above is untrue and deceptive. You're making the result of your salvation you, God must choose you "because" of what you did...it is setting up your own righteousness as why you were saved. "God saw that I prepared my heart and so decided to reward me for what I did. I'm so wonderful and self impressed. I did it!" That is so smug it's disgusting.

I'll stick with unconditional election, and unmerited favor (grace) as per the entirety of Scripture and this wonderful portion as the reason of my salvation. No "boasting of my decision" or a work like "preparing my heart" as the cause, as in your case; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

So, we can choose to no longer follow? How arminian of you.

They proved they were never his 1 John 2:19. How biblical of me.

From that [time] many of his disciples went back,.... Not any of the twelve apostles, for they are distinguished from these in the next verse; nor any of the seventy disciples, for their names were written in heaven, and could not apostatize totally and finally, as these did; but some of the multitude of the disciples, who followed Christ, heard him, and professed to believe in him, and were baptized in his name, but were not true disciples, only nominal ones: they had never heard and learned of the Father, otherwise they would have known what it was to come to Christ, as the Father's gift, and under the drawings of his grace; and would not have been offended at the words of our Lord, just now spoken by him, concerning that sort of coming to him: but from the time he spoke those words; "because of this word", as the Syriac, Arabic, and Persic versions render it; they withdrew themselves from his ministry, they dropped their profession of faith in him, and relinquished him as a Saviour and Redeemer: for finding that he would not be made king, nor set up for a temporal redeemer; and talking of himself as the bread of life, and of coming to him, in a sense they did not understand; they turned their backs on him; and as the words may be literally read, "returned to the things that were behind"; to the world, and to their old companions, to Satan and their own hearts lusts; like the dog to its vomit, and the swine to its wallowing in the mire: their true picture is drawn, in the parable of the unclean spirit going out of the man, and returning,

Mt 12:43. And they returned to their quondam teachers, the Scribes and Pharisees, and to the law of works, and to seek for righteousness by it; setting up their own righteousness, and not submitting to the righteousness of Christ; and thus to look back and draw back, is a sad case indeed:

and walked no more with him; never returned to him more, or went with him from place to place as before: never more attended on his ministry, or had any intimacy and fellowship with him: and so it commonly is with apostates from the profession of Christ; they seldom or ever return, or are recovered; it is difficult, if not impossible, which is sometimes the case, to renew them again to repentance.

 

[Renniks]

One reason you continue on in darkness is you make up your own gospel,and have not learned to read with comprehension.
It must be my fault. I asked you to look at 3 portions of scripture instead of one at a time.
Tell me in Ezk34.....does anyone become a sheep?
Or does God say His sheep, that means they are His already,become scattered and lost?

By the way, I do see a theme or pattern to your posts. You ignore the verses you were asked to respond to, and offer verses that are off topic.

No response at all to the Word, just more bashing.
Perhaps you can tell me what you think Ezk 34 teaches? It contains some fine promises for God's people. I don't see anything Calvinistic about it.
You said:"and claimed the lost are defined by the Elect sheep."
Ok? Shrug. There are the lost and found in this world and as I just showed you, the difference is faith. It's not complicated.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No response at all to the Word, just more bashing.
Perhaps you can tell me what you think Ezk 34 teaches? It contains some fine promises for God's people. I don't see anything Calvinistic about it.
You said:"and claimed the lost are defined by the Elect sheep."
Ok? Shrug. There are the lost and found in this world and as I just showed you, the difference is faith. It's not complicated.

He didn't bash you. Why not answer the question instead of dodging?

 

[Renniks]

He didn't bash you. Why not answer the question instead of dodging?

I just did.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I just did.

Not at all. As per usual you never address the scripture when it is shown to refute you.

 

[Renniks]

Not at all. As per usual you never address the scripture when it is shown to refute you.

I don't know what you think Ezekiel proves?


"Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’"

Really don't know how you read Ezekiel as God picking certain people for salvation arbitrarily.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I don't know what you think Ezekiel proves?


"Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’"

Really don't know how you read Ezekiel as God picking certain people for salvation arbitrarily.

@Anthony D'Arienzo already showed you why Ezekiel proves your position is errant.

Tell us all again what you did to merit grace so God would choose you.

 

[Renniks]

@Anthony D'Arienzo already showed you why Ezekiel proves your position is errant.

Tell us all again what you did to merit grace so God would choose you.

No one merits grace, and do you ever cease lying about what I've said? God hates a lying tongue.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No one merits grace, and do you ever cease lying about what I've said? God hates a lying tongue.

I've not lied. Your false doctrine is that God saw in time what you would do then because you did it he rewarded you. That is merit not grace.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No one merits grace, and do you ever cease lying about what I've said? God hates a lying tongue.

Your boy Leighton believes in meritorious "grace" just like you. God chose you because you ____. God chose Leighton because he's choice meat. Knowing the Lord is a personal achievement. God chose you because you prepared your heart.

The things the above views all share in common is they are false gospels and show a tragic misunderstanding of man, God, and the gospel. All of your views are tricky little ways Satan deceives to make you believe your gospel is 100% God while you take credit yourselves.

 

[Candidus]

 

[SovereignGrace]

There is enough meat there for @Renniks to chew on. Sadly, I think he'll end up choking on it before he will gladly chew and swallow it and grow from it.

@Renniks we, @Anthony D'Arienzo , @Preacher4Truth and myself have given you ample scripture to investigate and grow from. You can either accept it or reject it. The ball is in your court. Our hands are clean.

 

[Candidus]

 

[Renniks]

I've not lied. Your false doctrine is that God saw in time what you would do then because you did it he rewarded you. That is merit not grace.

Maybe in your mind, but I never said we merit grace. Belief isn't a work that earns us anything. It's still by God's grace that we are saved.