Regeneration before or after saving faith

[Eternally Grateful]

And what about the only ones that come to Christ are the ones GIVEN by the Father? Yes, it is through faith. But they only come to faith because it was granted that they would come to faith.

Yep

Because it was the will of God that whoever sees and believes would be saved.

Thats Gods will.

Jesus said to jerusalem. How he so often wanted to take them under his wing (his will) but they were unwilling.

Man goes against Gods will all the time.. It was not Gods will that Adam and Eve sinned, But they did.

Praise God he KNEW they would sin, thus he made a way of salvation BEFORE they were even created.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Fair? You want to talk about FAIR? You don't want fair. Fair is all going to Hell.

yep

And unfair is God not offering the gift of salvation to everyone, Since everyone is in the same boat.

Who here has said otherwise?

So you believe in free will?everyone has a chance to recieve Gods offer? Maybe I misunderstood you. If so forgive me

 

[reformed1689]

yep

And unfair is God not offering the gift of salvation to everyone, Since everyone is in the same boat.



So you believe in free will?everyone has a chance to recieve Gods offer? Maybe I misunderstood you. If so forgive me

It depends on what you mean by free will. If by free will you mean we always choose and are free to choose what we desire, then yes, I believe in free will.

 

[reformed1689]

Amen

It also does not say he loved the elect. Or the chosen.

It says the world. that WHOEVER (by wording showing that NOT ALL the world will do what comes next. They have a choice)

And show how world means every individual. I am not saying in John 3:16 it means only the elect. But I am saying it is not talking about individuals.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It depends on what you mean by free will. If by free will you mean we always choose and are free to choose what we desire, then yes, I believe in free will.

Which means we are free to chose to admit our guilt. Repent. And fall on our knees and call out to jesus.

Or replace that with religion or atheism.

But somethign tells me you do not believe this

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And show how world means every individual. I am not saying in John 3:16 it means only the elect. But I am saying it is not talking about individuals.

World that whosoever believes

That makes it individuals with in the context of the world.. Yet Jesus said he would die for the world. So whoever would would come.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

The problem is these who reject Gods sovereign election are the man replying against God in Romans 9:19-20. They are literally saying "God, how can you still find fault with a person if you leave him in his sins and do not exercise mercy on him!?!?!?!? That is NOT fair!" they say. (But really it is fair and it is just!)

This is exactly what these in this thread are doing. Since God does this, and he does, he cannot be their God. To them since God does this it is unjust and unfair. Paul warned about answering back to God/replying against him: That is exactly what the man was saying to and about God in the above text.

These here? They're doing the same thing when they hear these truths, answering back to God.

One last thing. Ever notice most of these were never hostile in their minds against God or at enmity with him, but always loved him contrary to what Scripture says about the state of all the lost? But when shown the true attributes and Sovereignty of God they now do become hostile to him. That is a solemn thing to behold!

 

[Renniks]

So you're inconsistent in your error? You stated world means everybody, but now it doesn't? Does all always mean all? What you do when shown your error is you change your rules and definitions.

There is very good reason to teach that John 3:16 does not mean every single person ever. The testimony of the word where it explicitly shows God does not love every single person. Do you brush off those texts too?

You really want to compare something the Pharisees said as exaggeration, to Jesus' words about himself? What's next? Perhaps you can try to claim the words of the snake in the garden are equally as true as Jesus words.

 

[reformed1689]

World that whosoever believes

That makes it individuals with in the context of the world.. Yet Jesus said he would die for the world. So whoever would would come.

whosover does not equal world. nor are the in the same clause. Try again.

 

[Renniks]

Did you believe by your inherent faith and exercise it for salvation?

What do you mean by inherent faith? Faith is a choice. "Choose you this day whom you will serve."

 

[reformed1689]

Which means we are free to chose to admit our guilt. Repent. And fall on our knees and call out to jesus.

Or replace that with religion or atheism.

But somethign tells me you do not believe this

No, it means we are free to choose what we DESIRE. What we WILL. What is the will of natural man?

 

[Renniks]

Of course, but nobody believes unless able to. They cannot believe in their natural state (Romans 3). Therefore, if God must change them to seek Him then either God does not actually will that everyone be saved, or he is not able to actually accomplish his will. World does not mean each individual if you look at the context.

Where does it say we aren't able to freely respond to God with either an affirmative or negative?
You are just creating false dilemmas for God that aren't scriptural.

 

[Dcopymope]

It depends what you mean by choose. Nobody chooses to be saved in their natural state. God has to enable them to seek Him.

So how are they "enabled" exactly? Does this occur with or without the holy spirit?

 

[Renniks]

It depends on what you mean by free will. If by free will you mean we always choose and are free to choose what we desire, then yes, I believe in free will.

Lol, the fake form of free will which no one means when they say "free will".
Because you believe God give us all our desires or else with holds them, so what you really mean is that God determined whether we respond or not. There's absolutely nothing free about the calvinist form of " free will."

 

[reformed1689]

So how are they "enabled" exactly? Does this occur with or without the holy spirit?

Yes, the Spirit.

 

[reformed1689]

Lol, the fake form of free will which no one means when they say "free will".
Because you believe God give us all our desires or else with holds them, so what you really mean is that God determined whether we respond or not. There's absolutely nothing free about the calvinist form of " free will."

Of course God determines ultimately whether or not we respond in the sense that all who are elect will respond and all who are not will stay in their sin. No one does good, no one seeks after God for all have sinned.

 

[reformed1689]

Where does it say we aren't able to freely respond to God with either an affirmative or negative?
You are just creating false dilemmas for God that aren't scriptural.

Ever read Romans? Paul makes all of this EXPLICITLY clear.

 

[reformed1689]

Lol, the fake form of free will which no one means when they say "free will".

How is it fake. You will always choose what you desire yes? But nobody, in their natural state, desires God.

 

[Dcopymope]

Where does it say we aren't able to freely respond to God with either an affirmative or negative?
You are just creating false dilemmas for God that aren't scriptural.

In his mind, Romans 3 states that man is not capable of choosing to believe in God, I really don't.

 

[Renniks]

Of course God determines ultimately whether or not we respond. No one does good, no one seeks after God for all have sinned.

Can you say " fatalism"? I knew you could.