Regeneration before or after saving faith

[reformed1689]

In his mind, Romans 3 states that man is not capable of choosing to believe in God, I really don't.

Jesus confirms this when he said nobody comes to him UNLESS IT IS GRANTED by the Father.

 

[Renniks]

Ever read Romans? Paul makes all of this EXPLICITLY clear.

Multiple times, and no ,he doesn't claim we can't respond to God.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Lol, the fake form of free will which no one means when they say "free will".
Because you believe God give us all our desires or else with holds them, so what you really mean is that God determined whether we respond or not. There's absolutely nothing free about the calvinist form of " free will."

It's funny that you think you were free in any sense while lost showing you really do not understand the Gospel or the lost state of man.

Jesus says we weren't free, but slaves, and only free when set free by him. Hmmm. But you teach the contrary.

He has to set us free due to our wills being enslaved to sin. Your errant teaching is therefore contrary to his.

Note John 8:31ff. I hope you will see your error and finally give God all the glory. As of now? You're fighting to give yourself credit and glory, it is what you do, focus on you and what you did.

 

[reformed1689]

Multiple times, and no ,he doesn't claim we can't respond to God.

Of course he does. Romans 3. Jesus confirms this as well.

 

[reformed1689]

It's funny that you think you were free in any sense while lost showing you really do not understand the Gospel or the lost state of man.

Jesus says we weren't free, but slaves, and only free when set free by him. Hmmm. But you teach the contrary.

Note John 8:31ff.

He has to set us free due to our wills being enslaved to sin. Your errant teaching is therefore contrary to his.

As soon as the word "fair" was brought into it you knew they were not being biblical.

 

[Renniks]

It's funny that you think you were free in any sense while lost showing you really do not understand the Gospel or the lost state of man.

Jesus says we weren't free, but slaves, and only free when set free by him. Hmmm. But you teach the contrary.

Note John 8:31ff.

He has to set us free due to our wills being enslaved to sin. Your errant teaching is therefore contrary to his.

So, can you still sin? What? I thought you were a slave to righteousness! Obviously being a slave doesn't mean you can't make choices... to respond to somebody that offers freedom, for example.

 

[Renniks]

Of course he does. Romans 3. Jesus confirms this as well.

Roman's 3:22 what do it say?

 

[reformed1689]

Roman's 3:22 what do it say?

It says there is no distinction between Jew or Greek.

 

[Dcopymope]

Yes, the Spirit.

Jesus confirms this when he said nobody comes to him UNLESS IT IS GRANTED by the Father.

Ok, but you say the spirit enables them to be "regenerated", yet, as others like Enoch111 pointed out, scripture says the spirit doesn't even come into the picture until after said individual comes to repentance.

(Acts 2:37-38) "¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? {38} Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

(Acts 3:19) "¶ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

If you are going to claim that God has to "enable" them to be "regenerated", or to choose him, you're going to have to find another means by which God does it, because you are clearly contradicting scripture in the order of how it says its done. You're basically claiming that the holy spirit comes before repentance when scripture says the exact opposite.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

As soon as the word "fair" was brought into it you knew they were not being biblical.

Because their gospel is about them and what they did. They literally hate that we give all the glory to God, in fact they're fighting against it to give themselves credit and a little glory.

They don't even think through the texts we show them, they respond quickly and don't think it through. I barely had a post up and it was already replied to. They aren't having an honest rational discussion. Nope, they immediately start banging a retort.

Bro, they are not teachable nor willing to learn: they're fighting against God and his word!

 

[reformed1689]

Ok, but you say the spirit enables them to be "regenerated", yet, as others like Enoch111 pointed out, scripture says the spirit doesn't even come into the picture until after said individual comes to repentance.



If you are going to claim that God has to "enable" them to be "regenerated", or to choose him, you're going to have to find another means by which God does it, because you are clearly contradicting scripture in the order of how it says its done. You're basically claiming that the holy spirit comes before repentance when scripture says the exact opposite.

That doesn't contradict Scripture at all. You seem to think the Holy Spirit only does one single task...

 

[reformed1689]

Because their gospel is about them and what they did. They literally hate that we give all the glory to God, in fact they're fighting against it to give themselves credit and a little glory.

They don't even think through the texts we show them, they respond quickly and don't think it through. I barely had a post up and it was already replied to. They aren't having an honest rational discussion. Nope, they immediately start banging a retort.

Bro, they are not teachable nor willing to learn: they're fighting against God and his word!

I used to think the way they did, it is wrong and sinful. It is humanistic, not godly.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

My post was not up a minute before @Renniks started fighting against it. He "read" my post , typed out a response and posted it within one minute, not even seriously considering the words of Christ! Waste of time...

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I used to think the way they did, it is wrong and sinful. It is humanistic, not godly.

Yep. They're humanists.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I used to think the way they did, it is wrong and sinful. It is humanistic, not godly.

Same here. But when I heard these truths I did not fight them. Someone mentioned TULIP so I worked through it in my mind and Scripture, then embracing it gave God glory and worshiped him. Never read "Calvin."

 

[Renniks]

It says there is no distinction between Jew or Greek.

What else?
Romans 3:22, ESV: "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:"
Doesn't "all" mean all?
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
All who believe, no distinction, no coerced conversions. What is so hard to understand about " all.?

 

[Renniks]

My post was not up a minute before @Renniks started fighting against it. He "read" my post , typed out a response and posted it within one minute, not even seriously considering the words of Christ! Waste of time...

Because it's all been said before. It's the same old distortions every time.

 

[Renniks]

Yep. They're humanists.

Well according to your theology, we can only be humanist if God decrees for us to be humanists. So who are you to talk back to God?

 

[Dcopymope]

That doesn't contradict Scripture at all. You seem to think the Holy Spirit only does one single task...

Well the holy spirit serves many different purposes. It is the means by which God created the heavens and the earth, it serves as his "eyes" allowing him to see and know all, but when it comes to salvation, you seem to believe he only draws to himself whom he chose to save. But scripture say he draws all men to himself through the gospel message, not willing that any should perish, by convicting them of their sin through the holy spirit so they have the chance to be saved, repentance being the first order of business. This doesn't mean that all will be saved by default of them being drawn to God, because obviously, the whole world will not end up coming to repentance. This is my understanding of it.

(John 16:7-11) "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. {8} And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: {9} Of sin, because they believe not on me; {10} Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; {11} Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."

If what you claim is true, then the Great Commission Jesus gave to his disciples was a complete waste of time, null and void. And everyone else preaching the gospel to the unsaved are wasting their time. I know that I sure as hell ain't wasting any of my time then.

 

[reformed1689]

But scripture say he draws all men to himself through the gospel message, not willing that any should perish, by convicting them of their sin through the holy spirit so they have the chance to be saved, repentance being the first order of business. This doesn't mean that all will be saved by default of them being drawn to God, because obviously, the whole world will not end up coming to repentance. This is my understanding of it.

You are taking so many verses out of context to fit a narrative.

All men as in not just Jews but also Gentiles.
Not willing that any should perish, who is that referring to? The Elect.

All who the Father gives to the Son do in fact come to the Son.