Religious Liberty!
- Thread starter theefaith
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
no facts
actually the common people of the Roman Empire spoke Latin, that’s why it’s called the vulgate (vulgar or common)
106. What is purgatory?
Purgatory is a place where souls suffer for a time after death on account of their sins.
107. What souls go to purgatory?
Those souls go to purgatory that depart this life in venial sin; or that have not fully paid the debt of temporal punishment due to those sins of which the guilt has been forgiven.
108. What is temporal punishment?
Temporal punishment is punishment which will have an end, either in this world, or in the world to come.
109. How do you prove that there is a purgatory?
I prove that there is a purgatory from the constant teaching of the Church; and from the doctrine of Holy Scripture, which declares that God will render to every man according to his works; that nothing defiled shall enter heaven; and that some will be saved, 'as one who has gone through fire. (Matt. 16:27. Apoc. 21:27. 1 Cor. 3:15)
110. What is the tenth article of the Creed?
The tenth article of the Creed is, 'the forgiveness of sins'.
111. What do you mean by 'the forgiveness of sins'?
By the forgiveness of sins I mean that Christ has left the power of forgiving sins to the Pastors of his Church. (John 20:23)
112. By what means are sins forgiven?
Sins are forgiven principally by the Sacraments of Baptism and Penance.
Example
A father may forgive (mercy) his son for hitting a ball thru the window, but the son will have work and pay for the window. (Justice)
Indulgences we’re never sold, that was only an accusation, there attached to a donation, the English Protestant statement “salvation by the shilling” was complete non-sense!
Faith alone ain’t in scripture
Jn 3:22 immediately they went to the river to baptize
see below
- If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by Jesus Christ, our Lord; or, that they are more, or less, than seven, to wit, Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order, and Matrimony; or even that any one of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that these said sacraments of the New Law do not differ from the sacraments of the Old Law, save that the ceremonies are different, and different the outward rites; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that these seven sacraments are in such wise equal to each other, as that one is not in any way more worthy than another; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification;-though all (the sacraments) are not indeed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that these sacraments were instituted for the sake of nourishing faith alone; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law do not contain the grace which they signify; or, that they do not confer that grace on those who do not place an obstacle thereunto; as though they were merely outward signs of grace or justice received through faith, and certain marks of the Christian profession, whereby believers are distinguished amongst men from unbelievers; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that grace, as far as God's part is concerned, is not given through the said sacraments, always, and to all men, even though they receive them rightly, but (only) sometimes, and to some persons; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that, in the three sacraments, Baptism, to wit, Confirmation, and Order, there is not imprinted in the soul a character, that is, a certain spiritual and indelible Sign, on account of which they cannot be repeated; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that all Christians have power to administer the word, and all the sacraments; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that, in ministers, when they effect, and confer the sacraments, there is not required the intention at least of doing what the Church does; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that a minister, being in mortal sin,-if so be that he observe all the essentials which belong to the effecting, or conferring of, the sacrament,-neither effects, nor confers the sacrament; let him be anathema.
- If any one saith, that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church, wont to be used in the solemn administration of the sacraments, may be contemned, or without sin be omitted at pleasure by the ministers, or be changed, by every pastor of the churches, into other new ones; let him be anathema.
- Holy apostolic council of Trent with the authority of Christ!
So if I asked you to take me to your Christian kingdom you would take me nowhere.
The Roman Catholic Church has authority over a kingdom whose location is unknown.
we are not free to practice any religion or any sect or believe any doctrine we like or choose but only what God has revealed
Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17
Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5
Truth is immutable! Cannot change!
And same truths revealed by Christ and taught by the church are always believed and taught from the beginning when Christ taught his church in person! Jude 1:3 the faith once delivered to the saints or the deposit of faith eph 4:5 one faith!
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!
The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)
The Roman Catholic Church appears to be in retreat / decline.
From “most of Europe at one time” to “unknown to you” but maybe Spain.
Would you attribute the reversal to the great apostasy?
Speaking as an outsider looking in, with your assistance, the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t sound very attractive. I’m not sure why anyone would want to be a part of it. Your thoughts on that?
So trying to put this all together, it sounds like you’re saying that you’re under the control of “the age of the great apostasy” and there is no such thing as religious liberty.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Mmmm. Thank you again @theefaith for revealing your true character as opposed to the fake Catholics elsewhere on this site. You have shown the true character of your catholicity by denying the blood of the Lamb as the basis for our justification, replacing it with your works and self efforts.
Thank you also for your frankness in admitting before us all the true Antichrist nature of the Catholic gospel... Replacing Christ for the forgiveness of sin with your counterfeit priesthood.
All those protestants and non denominational folk here who have been sitting in the fence regarding ecumenism, and thinking that perhaps the Catholic Church has changed (a-la the agreement between Lutherans and Catholics from 30 odd years ago) but you have clearly, succinctly and honestly revealed the truth for all to see and take note... That the Catholic Church has not changed, that the Catholic Church is still exactly that which inspired the Protestant reformation...
- That the Catholic version of justification is not biblical, nor Christian.
- That the Catholic version of the gospel is not biblical, nor Christian.
- That the Catholic methods for disseminating the gospel is still, after 1500 years, still based on pagan methods... Force and compulsion.
- That the reformers accusations, going back as far as the Waldensians of the 3rd century until adventists of today, are correct. The system of catholicism which replaces truth with error... The high priest role of Jesus with a counterfeit priesthood... The intercessory and mediatorial role of Jesus with Mary, numerous saints and works, is the essence of Antichrist.
- Finally, that catholicism is still, as she always has been, a persecuting power.
Thanks for sharing Catholic popes stepping in USING the Name of Jesus (to CONDEMN men), beyond what the Lord authorized any man to USE the Lords NAME.
Matt 7:
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Fact IS. Jesus IS the Judge.
Fact IS. God Himself gives every man his OWN Freewill of Choice.
Seems little ‘ole entertainers singing about Liberty have a greater understanding of the Lord than self-appointed, self-proclaimed, self-pious, crowned, pedestaled, cowered to Gentile popes Improperly USING Jesus Name, sentencing condemnation.
And this is exactly what is going to happen when the church unites with the state. This mind set is one of persecution.
Jesus never forced Himself on anyone. Man was to have a choice.
The Catholic Church is recognized by world leaders. Once unity is attained, it will be this church who takes their beliefs and forces it on those who do not believe. Look at the recent change in the relationship of Protestants and Catholics, and the discounting of the Reformation.
You may have to die for refusing to go along. This sounds preposterous, until you read what @theefaith writes.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Which is why we should be grateful to him for his honesty. None of the other Catholics here have been so frank about their church's true character. Now all we need is for those protestants here who believe a union and agreement with catholicism in effecting a combined political response to the "threat" of Islam, socialism, atheism, communism, or even adventism, is something they are working toward and we will have honesty all around. But theefaith is a rare bird, and I don't hold much hope we'll see a protestant or other non-Catholic being as honest.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
There you go. The problem though is that the doctrines and dogmas and practises that you would promote as being enforced in a so called "Christian kingdom" fails in 2 major points. First, the doctrines aren't Christian. They are most certainly Catholic, but Catholics throughout history have persecuted and sought to destroy true Christian faith everywhere. The Catholic faith is the satanic flood that was spewed out of Satan's mouth in an effort to destroy God's people who were in the wilderness. The wilderness church was always the true church, the church that was apostolic, the church that had the genuine scriptures that was handed down generation to generation. The Catholic Church of Rome, Alexandria, was the late comer, and the usurper of the true faith and Antichrist.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Most of Europe was Catholic yes. Christian, no. There were pockets of Christians who had kept the faith, but they were in the wilderness, persecuted and constantly harassed and either dispossessed of land and houses, or killed. Throughout the 1260 years of papal supremacy from the 6th century, the above had been the case, along with the slanders and lies spoken of concerning those true heroes of the faith by the Roman hierarchy, even to this day.
The only methods Rome knew that enabled the Catholic heresies and superstitions to flourish, was the fear of reprisals and war to anyone who refused to submit to the popes. There are numerous examples, of both individuals and communities who chose to exercise their God given liberty of conscience to worship according to scripture without the vain Antichrist traditions and practises of the Papacy, but we're persecuted for their efforts. It was among those communities that the true faith lived in the true Spirit of self sacrifice, love, and truth.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Oh, and the second point... God's kingdom isn't of this world. Jesus will establish His kingdom Himself when He recreates the new heaven and the new earth. That will be when the meek will receive the promise of their inheritance. Until then, God is creating a people who worship Him in Spirit and truth, they being the ones who will inherit. The establishment of God kingdom isn't too be done by proxy by sinful glory seeking politicians and religious heretics and hypocrites.
KJV Daniel 2:44-45
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
The “Holy apostolic council of Trent” anathematizes me @theefaith. Please spell out what that means for me in practical terms.
I count you as a friend. Give it to me straight.
there is only one!
There is and can only be one true:
One God
One Christ
One Savior
One Spirit
One king
One Mediator
One Christian Religion
One New Covenant
One Church / body of Christ
One teaching Authority of apostles
One Gospel
OneVineyard
One Kingdom
One House of God
One Household of faith
One Baptism
One Redemption
One Justification
One Sanctification
One Salvation
no there is a great apostasy happening and much of what people think is the true church ain’t so
no one is free to choose religion or worship whatsoever the like
the first commandment forbids this ex 20:2-6
religious liberty is insanity!
Yes. But you’ve identified the Church as the Catholic Church, which you’ve said has been in apostasy since 1958.
Let’s say a person is interested in Catholicism. The person has become aware - through listening to you or other sources - of the current situation.
Who wants to become a member of the apostate Church?
You must surely have an alternative to offer such a person. What is the alternative you have to offer?
Similar threads
