Sabbath-Keeping

[Phoneman777]

Just like any man that escapes sin. If he's an alcoholic then he will stop going to the liquor store, but not going to the liquor store doesn't cleanse you of your addiction. Only the free gift of salvation can do that and the sanctification of the Holy Spirit. The word "escaped" here in Greek is apopheugó, which means to flee from.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world,.... The sins of it, the governing vices of it, which the men of the world are addicted to, and immersed in; for the whole world lies in wickedness, and which are of a defiling nature: the phrase is Rabbinical; it is said (q),

ATP, I am astonished that you've been arguing that OSAS is necessary because a grace saved man in who's heart resides Jesus is incapable of fleeing from sin, but now you turn around and argue that the people of 2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV who you claim were never saved are able to flee from sin and the pollutions of the world in their own strength without the help of Jesus. You've been misled by the very same false teachers which Peter speaks of in this passage, bro.

 

[Phoneman777]

OSAS doesn't believe that we should forget about God's commandments. Are you trusting in your own works to keep you saved or God's finished work on the cross?

I trust Jesus for my salvation and evidence that I do so by allowing Him to live out His obedient life through me. Those who trust the false doctrine of OSAS evidence that by allowing Satan to live out his rebellious life through them.

 

[Barrd]

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

ATP, you are trying to show us your faith without any works.

Phoneman and I, we are showing our faith by our works.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So, ATP...how is your faith any different than the faith of the devils, who also believe, and tremble? Well...hmm...come to think of it, at least those devils do have enough sense to tremble.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Faith without works is dead...dead, ATP. Dead faith cannot save anyone.

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Do you understand that Abraham was justified by his faith...because his faith moved him to obey God, even to the point of sacrificing his only son. Do you have any idea what that must have been like for him? The son he had waited for...the son that God had promised to him, through whom all the families of earth would be blessed. Sarah had borne him in her old age...Ishmael had gone...there would be no more. But Abraham obeyed God...and it was counted to him as righteousness....


The point, dear man, is this. It is not enough just to sin on your....um....sit and talk about how you have this faith. Don't get me wrong...yes, it is faith that saves you, and nothing that you can do.
However, do you understand that true faith is obedient faith?
This idea that, because you have faith, that you can willfully rebel against God and you'll still go to heaven...that is a despicable lie. If...or I should say WHEN you sin, you must understand that you have denied your faith...you must repent, yes, each and every single time you sin.
What would you say, for instance, to an adulterer who thinks that, because he has said a sinner's prayer, that God will turn a blind eye on his affair? He figures that God has forgiven all of his future sins...so what the heck...he's going to enjoy his little side dish...and you just mind your own business.
Because that's the kind of thing this OSAS lie leads to. It is why so many gays think that they can have their same sex marriages, and God will still accept them, because they are saved.

You don't seem to understand the harm this doctrine of devils causes, ATP.

 

[ATP]

ATP, I am astonished that you've been arguing that OSAS is necessary because a grace saved man in who's heart resides Jesus is incapable of fleeing from sin, but now you turn around and argue that the people of 2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV who you claim were never saved are able to flee from sin and the pollutions of the world in their own strength without the help of Jesus. You've been misled by the very same false teachers which Peter speaks of in this passage, bro.

Fleeing from sin and being forgiven of sin are not the same Phone. I pray that you are covered in the blood of Christ. - Shalom

 

[Barrd]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

It says that they had "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ."

How do you get "false teachers" out of that?

Isn't that what happens when one becomes a Disciple? He "escapes the pollutions of the world," doesn't he? And how, if not through the knowledge of Jesus Christ?

 

[ATP]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

It says that they had "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ."

How do you get "false teachers" out of that?

Isn't that what happens when one becomes a Disciple? He "escapes the pollutions of the world," doesn't he? And how, if not through the knowledge of Jesus Christ?

No, you can hear the Gospel but still not receive the free gift of salvation.
Nonbelievers everywhere today are hearing the Gospel Barrd,
but how many are accepting salvation? Matt 22:14 NIV

Rom 1:18 NIV The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Rom 1:25 NIV They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator or--who is forever praised. Amen.

Rom 1:28 NIV Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

 

[Barrd]

No, you can hear the Gospel but still not receive the free gift of salvation.
Nonbelievers everywhere today are hearing the Gospel Barrd,
but how many are accepting salvation? Matt 22:14 NIV

Rom 1:18 NIV The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Rom 1:25 NIV They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator or--who is forever praised. Amen.

Rom 1:28 NIV Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

This didn't answer my question at all.
The men in 2 Peter 20 had escaped the pollutions of this world by the knowledge of Jesus Christ.
The only way that could have happened is if they had been washed clean...iow, if they had been saved. But they were entangled in those same "pollutions" again...
And this is not the only verse that tells us that a man can so sin so as to lose his salvation.

Your Blessed Assurance verses are in there, as well, ATP, and I'm not saying that they aren't, or that they do not mean that Jesus will take every one who believes in Him to Heaven when the time comes.
Our disagreement has to do with what it means to be a believer.

Abraham was a believer.
God told him to sacrifice his son Isaac...and believing in Him, Abraham did what God had told him.

Tell me...why did Jesus ask Peter three times if he loved Him?

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

What do you think was going on here?

 

[ATP]

This didn't answer my question at all.
The men in 2 Peter 20 had escaped the pollutions of this world by the knowledge of Jesus Christ.
The only way that could have happened is if they had been washed clean...iow, if they had been saved.

Where does it say they were washed clean in the blood of Christ?

 

[Barrd]

Where does it say they were washed clean in the blood of Christ?

When you came to Christ, wasn't it through the knowledge of Him? And when you were washed clean, didn't you escape from the pollutions of this world?
I just can't see how you can get "false teachers" out of this verse. It just doesn't make any sense.
How is a "false teacher" returning to anything? If he's false, he never left those things to begin with...

 

[ATP]

When you came to Christ, wasn't it through the knowledge of Him? And when you were washed clean, didn't you escape from the pollutions of this world?
I just can't see how you can get "false teachers" out of this verse. It just doesn't make any sense.
How is a "false teacher" returning to anything? If he's false, he never left those things to begin with...

Having the knowledge of the Gospel doesn't cleanse you. Only the blood of Jesus can do that.

 

[Barrd]

Having the knowledge of the Gospel doesn't cleanse you. Only the blood of Jesus can do that.

You didn't answer my question, ATP.
When you came to Christ, wasn't it through the knowledge of Him? Whether some pastor told you, or you read about Him in your Bible, or whatever...you were drawn to Him, isn't that so?
And when you came to Christ, weren't you washed clean? Doesn't that mean that you escaped from the pollutions of this world?
This passage of scripture is rather difficult for OSASers to explain, I realize that....but how in the name of the seven hells do you get "false teachers" out of it?

 

[ATP]

You didn't answer my question, ATP.
When you came to Christ, wasn't it through the knowledge of Him? Whether some pastor told you, or you read about Him in your Bible, or whatever...you were drawn to Him, isn't that so?
And when you came to Christ, weren't you washed clean? Doesn't that mean that you escaped from the pollutions of this world?

Yes I was washed clean through His blood. Those people in 2 Peter 2 were not washed by His blood Barrd.

 

[Barrd]

Yes I was washed clean through His blood. Those people in 2 Peter 2 were not washed by His blood Barrd.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Now, why would Peter think that "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

So, they knew the way of righteousness...but they turned from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

No, ATP...this is not about "false teachers".

 

[mjrhealth]

Sin,

Being unfaithfull.

Now when a women is promised a husband, and therefore is wed to Him, in our Case Jesus, and than receives His seed by promise, “ the holy spirit” and has therefore become married to Him,

[SIZE=11pt]Gen 2:24[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.[/SIZE]

Should she therefore not remain faithful to Her Husband by promise.

Now if she should become a husband to another husband, in this case the “law”.

[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:1[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:2[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her[/SIZE] husband.

[SIZE=11pt]Is she not an adultress, a sinner??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:3[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]But than while we remain faithful to our husband by promise,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:4[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.[/SIZE]

And so those who are His are His bride and He remains our husband.

But than if one has not recieved her husband of promise, “Jesus” than she may go and marry another, “the law”. And she will not be unfaithfull.

As it says,

[SIZE=11pt]Luk 5:39[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] No man also having drunk old wine[/SIZE] straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

[SIZE=11pt]In all His Love[/SIZE]

 

[Barrd]

Sin,

Being unfaithfull.

Now when a women is promised a husband, and therefore is wed to Him, in our Case Jesus, and than receives His seed by promise, “ the holy spirit” and has therefore become married to Him,

[SIZE=11pt]Gen 2:24[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.[/SIZE]

Should she therefore not remain faithful to Her Husband by promise.

Now if she should become a husband to another husband, in this case the “law”.

[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:1[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:2[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her[/SIZE] husband.

[SIZE=11pt]Is she not an adultress, a sinner??[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:3[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]But than while we remain faithful to our husband by promise,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Rom 7:4[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.[/SIZE]

And so those who are His are His bride and He remains our husband.

But than if one has not recieved her husband of promise, “Jesus” than she may go and marry another, “the law”. And she will not be unfaithfull.

As it says,

[SIZE=11pt]Luk 5:39[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] No man also having drunk old wine[/SIZE] straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

[SIZE=11pt]In all His Love[/SIZE]

I thought you didn't believe the Bible?

 

[ATP]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Now, why would Peter think that "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

So, they knew the way of righteousness...but they turned from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

No, ATP...this is not about "false teachers".

The latter end is worse because if a person stopped smoking cigarettes for five years and then started smoking one cigarette a day again, that person will start buying a pack before you know it, then two packs. BARRD, FALSE TEACHERS ARE IN 2 PETER 2:1 NIV..................................

2 Pet 2:1 NIV But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

 

[heretoeternity]

Paul said in Romans, doers of the law will be justified, not just hearers of the law..but DOERS..and in Romans he also says do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law....

Remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin..

 

[mjrhealth]

I thought you didn't believe the Bible?

I did not say that, I said i dont beleieve it is all God word as so many argue it is.

I thought you said you did.??
See God Jesus and the Holy Spirit are always first in my life above all things.

 

[ATP]

Paul said in Romans, doers of the law will be justified, not just hearers of the law..but DOERS..and in Romans he also says do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law....

We are only justified once. Believing only comes once.

 

[heretoeternity]

We are only justified once. Believing only comes once.

Even satan and his demons believe.James 2...so you are in bad company if you only ":believe"....it is doers of God's law that counts as Paul pointed out in Romans...also "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law"....

Remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his doctrines, denominations and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.