Sabbath-Keeping

[aspen]

This thread is begging to be locked......

 

[brakelite]

Brakelite, it sounds to me as though you are trying to suggest that I "agree" that there is some kind of division in the law between "ceremonial" or "civil" laws and "moral" laws. I have never, in this forum, or anywhere else, agreed with anything of the sort. What I agree with is what scripture says. Nothing else!

So if scripture says that Christ only fulfilled the "ceremonial" laws then that is what I would be agreeing with. OK?

But you cannot make a claim like that without breaking the commandment given to us by God NOT to add anything to his words. Jesus taught us that he had come to fulfill the Law - not simply a part of it!

Furthermore, I do NOT claim that the 7th commandment is appicable to Christians whereas the 4th is not. What on earth caused you to reach such a conclusion?

I have repeatedly pointed out that issues concerning morality are not only common in completely different legal systems, but also that the Mosiac Law was given to a specific group of people at a specific point in time.

And to support this, I have provided irrefutable scriptures that prove this to be a Biblical FACT. The law was given to Israel and to no other nation. The sabbath commandment was made known "by the hand Moses" (Neh 9:14) And it was given to "those who came out of the wilderness".. those who came "out of Egypt":

"Therefore I led them out of Egypt and brought them into the desert. I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy."

So because you believe it to be so evil to 'add words to scripture' ( when you are applying that to us it appears that even commentary is evil) could yo provide scripture that tells us that the meaning of the concept "fulfilled" means "replaced"? For that appears to be what you are suggesting...that the whole law has been "replaced" with this new law you speak of "morallity".
My whole theology on his matter is in the belief that because the law is a reflection of the character and righteousness of God, and because God does not change, therefore neither can the law change.(I speak of the ten commandments).
The fact that the letter to the Hebrews states clearly the a law has changed, means that whatever law changed, it had nothing to do with that law that reflected the character of God. Because God does not change. (The law that changed is in fact explicitly stated, the law regarding the priesthood. Thus the ceremonial law).
Thus there is more than just one law. As I have contended from the beginning.
Jesus did not give anyone any new law. What He did, and what Isaiah prophesied He would do, was to put the magnifying glass to it and reveal it for what it truly was.Jesus made the law 'honorable' in the words of Isaiah.(Isa. 42:21) Through Jesus' demonstrations of sacrificial unselfish agape love that excluded no-one regardless of race, gender, or nationality or social status, He revealed the true meaning of commandment keeping. It is through our acceptance of Himself into our lives through the Spirit that the law is fulfilled. (Romans 8:29; 13:9,10).
The Pharisees thought they had it sussed. Because they didn't physically and personally kill anyone they considered themselves perfect when it came to the 6th commandment. But Jesus told them that because they hated, they were as guilty of premeditated murder as anyone who had wielded the sword.
The same with adultery. But lust condemned them as much as the act. Jesus did not make the law harder, nor did He alter it, He very simply showed the true nature of it from of old. His way (for He gave it in the first place) was the only way to observe the law.
Your obscure references to "morality" as if the Ten Commandments have been replaced by a 'law of morality' or replaced by the 'law of Christ' is making everything too complicated. Why not stick to the 'law and the testimony' and what the scriptures reveal through the old and new testaments. The law of Christ is the Ten Commandments revealed, not replaced.

There are two Greek words representing the word new. Kainos and nehos. Kainos is more or less a refreshing, a renewing. It is when you take something not new but refurbish it and make it look like brand new. Nehos is new as in new in age. A brand new car out of the showroom is a new (nehos) car.
Kainos is the word used in Hebrews dealing with the "new covenant," the verse which quotes Jer 31:31-34. So would imply that the new covenant isn't brand new, but the one that was broken by Israel, which was never broken by God, has been cleaned up by God to look new and brought back. This would be why Torah, (the Law) something many see as dead and gone, is written in your heart in the new (renewed ?) covenant. You might remember in the days of Sinai, Torah was asked to be kept in the heart. Unable to do so the covenant was eventually broken. This time, God himself puts Torah in our heart.
He did the same for the Sabbath. He demonstrated how the Sabbath was to be kept. Doing acts of kindness for others, even though it may have entailed 'work' was entirely in keeping with keeping the commandment. And nor was it God's will that people suffer through hunger, disease, discomfort, if in doing so it meant following the law to the letter.
Then He summarised the entire law by condensing it into the 2 love laws. But even they were not new, except to the ignorant hearers at the time. But they were direct quotes from torah, and are the foundation of the law and prophets.

 

[mjrhealth]

Lets what the bible says,

Mat 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
Mat 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

The old wine is what the Jewys had, the law, religion,

than Jesus did His bit than came pentecost,

in teh words of an observer,

Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And Jesus,

Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

in All His Love

 

[brakelite]

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

According to the Bible, what law is Paul referring to?

 

[zeke25]

This thread is begging to be locked......

Sounds like a good idea.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

So because you believe it to be so evil to 'add words to scripture' ( when you are applying that to us it appears that even commentary is evil) could yo provide scripture that tells us that the meaning of the concept "fulfilled" means "replaced"? For that appears to be what you are suggesting...that the whole law has been "replaced" with this new law you speak of "morallity".

Where did I equate being fulfilled with being replaced? That is nothing more than another strawman. I never made that claim at all. In fact I have pointed out the opposite time and time again and yet you still chose to missrepresent what I say. Romans 7:1-6 explains how it works. The law of adultery used here is as an illustration of how Christians have been released from the law (which is what scripture says, not me!). Nowhere does it say that the law itself was "replaced".... or abolished if you prefer to use that term. Think about what those verse are saying Brakelite! They don't say that anything has been replaced, they say that there are circumstances that make the law in question no longer applicable to the woman.

My whole theology on his matter is in the belief that because the law is a reflection of the character and righteousness of God, and because God does not change, therefore neither can the law change.(I speak of the ten commandments).

Well "your" theology is incredibly similar to SDA theology, which suggests that those who are opposed to them are trying desparately to "alter" the law (probably in order to justify their own doctrine). The "change in the law" mentioned in scripture (Hebrews 7:12) has NOTHING to do with re-chiseling the 10 commandments! That is not what scripture is saying. There has been a change in the priesthood and therefore we are no longer under the covenant of the OLD levitical priesthood.

The fact that the letter to the Hebrews states clearly the a law has changed, means that whatever law changed, it had nothing to do with that law that reflected the character of God. Because God does not change. (The law that changed is in fact explicitly stated, the law regarding the priesthood. Thus the ceremonial law).
Thus there is more than just one law. As I have contended from the beginning.

That too is incredibly bad logic. The fact that we no longer are under the Mosaic covenant - due to the obvious fact that we are unable to keep it has NOTHING to do with God's character. It has to do with OUR character! And furthermore, where does scripture distinguish between which laws "reflect the character of God" and which laws do not?? There is NOTHING in scripture that supports that claim.

Jesus did not give anyone any new law. What He did, and what Isaiah prophesied He would do, was to put the magnifying glass to it and reveal it for what it truly was.Jesus made the law 'honorable' in the words of Isaiah.(Isa. 42:21)
Through Jesus' demonstrations of sacrificial unselfish agape love that excluded no-one regardless of race, gender, or nationality or social status, He revealed the true meaning of commandment keeping. It is through our acceptance of Himself into our lives through the Spirit that the law is fulfilled. (Romans 8:29; 13:9,10).

Fine, that's a good argument for you to keep the entire Mosaic covenant. Nothing more, nothing less!

But if you are trying to suggest that Jesus supports your theology and somehow watered it down to the 10 commandments then you would have to do a whole lot more than that. None of the verses you quoted here do that, so what do you base your theology on.. exactly?

And I'm not sure what you are trying to prove with the rest of your post. You can talk all you want about how you don't think that the New Covenant really changes anything, but what the Bible says is that are no longer under the law. That is a biblical fact, and it totally demolishes your theology.

Scripture points out that the law produces covetous desires, that it made sin increase, that it made for lawbeakers, that it could not impart life, that its ministry brought death and condemnation, that it made nothing perfect, that it is not based on faith, that it brings wrath, and that it was powerless due to our sinful nature.

But cling on to it if you want, and pretend that any of the above points, which can ALL be found in scripture, somehow change the character of God! Hint: they don't...

 

[Phoneman777]

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

According to the Bible, what law is Paul referring to?

He is referring to the Ten Commandments, which none of these here opposed to the seventh day Sabbath will boldly declare that we are at liberty to violate. What an astounding rebuke to their inconsistent logic that "we Christians are not a liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that do not apply to Christians." What rubbish.

 

[zeke25]

Lets what the bible says,

Mat 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
Mat 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

The old wine is what the Jewys had, the law, religion,

than Jesus did His bit than came pentecost,

in teh words of an observer,

Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And Jesus,

Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

in All His Love

Thanks MJRHealth, one could hope that everyone could understand it as plainly as it is written.

 

[zeke25]

What an astounding rebuke to their inconsistent logic that "we Christians are not a liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that do not apply to Christians." What rubbish.

Phoneguy,

This rebuke you have written applies to you. You break the Ten Commandments every week when you go to church on Pope Gregory's sabbath. You are the one who not only does not observe God's Holy Sabbath, but mocks that Sabbath. Now if that's not "rubbish" (your words), then what is? You're a phony.

There are only 4 sabbaths every month. Which 4 days do you observe? This is the 3rd month on God's Calendar of Scripture. The 4 sabbaths will fall on 5/25, 6/1, 6/8, & 6/15 (on the Pope's calendar).

zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

That too is incredibly bad logic. The fact that we no longer are under the Mosaic covenant - due to the obvious fact that we are unable to keep it has NOTHING to do with God's character. It has to do with OUR character! And furthermore, where does scripture distinguish between which laws "reflect the character of God" and which laws do not?? There is NOTHING in scripture that supports that claim.

The Mosaic Covenant is not the Ten Commandments, else we'd be able to quote Romans 3:31 KJV as "Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the (Old Covenant).

If you read your Bible, you will discover that the words used to describe God's character are the same words used to describe God's law, the Ten Commandments, because the law is a transcript of His character. Even here, we see a Biblically drawn distinction between the Mosaic law and the Ten Commandments, because the Mosaic law of the priesthood is referred to in Hebrews 7 as a "carnal commandment" while Paul refers to the law in Romans 7, which is contextually the Ten Commandments, as "holy, just, and good." Not all will see this, because the enemy is busy blinding the world to the Gospel.

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneguy,

This rebuke you have written applies to you. You break the Ten Commandments every week when you go to church on Pope Gregory's sabbath. You are the one who not only does not observe God's Holy Sabbath, but mocks that Sabbath. Now if that's not "rubbish" (your words), then what is? You're a phony.

Zekoward, it is you who stand rebuked by your own foolishly inconsistent logic that we are not at liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that you claim do not apply to Christians. The day I keep is the day of which Jesus is Lord - the Sabbath. The day you keep is the day dedicated to the Sun god. I marvel that you claim to have walked away from a job because of a Biblical prohibition against "oath swearing" but you fully disregard the Biblical prohibition that we should not "learn to do as the heathen" who reverenced the Day of the Sun in honor of Satan. More inconsistent foolishness on your part, Zekoward.

 

[zeke25]

Zekoward, it is you who stand rebuked by your own foolishly inconsistent logic that we are not at liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that you claim do not apply to Christians. The day I keep is the day of which Jesus is Lord - the Sabbath. The day you keep is the day dedicated to the Sun god. I marvel that you claim to have walked away from a job because of a Biblical prohibition against "oath swearing" but you fully disregard the Biblical prohibition that we should not "learn to do as the heathen" who reverenced the Day of the Sun in honor of Satan. More inconsistent foolishness on your part, Zekoward.

You can't even read English. What's this mess you just typed? You're losing it Phoneyman, your connections are fried.

One thing you did say that might make sense: "The day you keep is the day dedicated to the Sun god." Oops, you couldn't have meant that. What a short memory you have? I never said that I worship on Sunday as a special day. I worship 7 days per week, they are all the same. More of your lies to insinuate that I do otherwise.

Phoneyman also said: "you fully disregard the Biblical prohibition that we should not "learn to do as the heathen" who reverenced the Day of the Sun in honor of Satan."

Zeke25: You're doing exactly that which you accuse me of. You are honoring Satan by using his calendar and his designated days and claiming that you are doing right.

Christians have the leeway to worship on Sundays on any calendar they want, but you do not. They are doing the best they can with the knowledge they have. But you are different. You claim to have superior knowledge and spirituality, when all you have is muddled and prideful thinking. God opposes the proud.

Zeke25

 

[mjrhealth]

Please read ver carefully

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

It is Gods covenant with israel. You are under a new covenant, you never had one before. Why are you doing what Christ said you shoulkd not do, try put the new wine into an old wine skin, it does not work.

In all his Love

 

[brrrilliantsteve]

I read your thoughts from time to time
but refrain from joining your posts,
the tone I hear almost every line
does not revere the Lord of Hosts.

A week or 2 ago I posted a link to an old manuscript (1657) `The seventh Day Sabbath Sought Out` - for your perusal.
http://www.sealingtime.com/resources-library/Thomas-Tillam/The-Seventh-day-Sabbath-Sought-Out/books/The%20Seventh%20Day%20Sabbath%20Sought%20Out%20-%20Thomas%20Tillam%20-%201657.pdf

I have no intention of waging a text battle. I do ,from time to time, come across ideas from the author which are thought provoking, logical even. The following quote is just one of these...

`That which Christ lays claim to as Lord, must needs be confessed to be his, esteemed and honored as his; the Bride is his, for He is her Lord; the Harvest is his, Heaven and Earth is his, the Angels are his, and all to be esteemed his who is proclaimed Lord of all: Therefore we celebrate the holy Supper, because `tis the Lord`s Supper; and therefore we ought to sanctifie the holy Sabbath, because he declares himself Lord of the Sabbath: He gave it the institution when he made the world, he gave it confirmation when he redeemed the world, and his Saints must endeavour to observe every jot and tittle of it to the end of the world.
For as he doth expressly own his holy day, in asserting himself Lord of the Sabbath, so he takes special care by particular instruction, that his Saints might avoid the violation of this rest upon earth, even whiles he himself should rest triumphantly in Heaven;...`
(The Author then writes on for his disciples `especially, to be importunate in prayer for forty years together` that their flight not be in the winter or on the Sabbath day.)


By all means, celebrate Jesus resurrection on Sunday, worship him 7 days a week, but not all days were created equal.
All 6 days were declared good, but only the Seventh was blessed and sanctified - (H6942 qadash - to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, be sanctified, be separate).
zeke25 - the bible tells us this truth very clearly.

[SIZE=14.3360004425049px]My question (on the OP topic of Sabbath-Keeping) then becomes, what should we all do to sanctify, dedicate, hallow & separate the 7th day from the other 6.[/SIZE]

 

[zeke25]

zeke25 - the bible tells us this truth very clearly.

[SIZE=14.3360004425049px]My question (on the OP topic of Sabbath-Keeping) then becomes, what should we all do to sanctify, dedicate, hallow & separate the 7th day from the other 6.[/SIZE]

brrr,

We can do absolutely nothing, it has already been done without us.

But you do not understand the Scriptures. You have quoted a lexicon's definition. Where is the Scripture that you so boldly declare "the bible tells us this truth very clearly"? It looks to me as if you think the lexicon is telling us, not the Bible. Is this another case of getting the cart before the horse?

And I did look at your link when you first put it up - most unimpressive. Then I went to the Bible - most impressive.

Also, you said (apparently from your book): "but only the Seventh was blessed and sanctified".

Is this not from Genesis 2:3? There was no sabbath in Genesis at all, much less Ge 2:3. So God was blessing the 7th day of Creation, not a sabbath day. This is a big error many, many make. Where does it say that the 7th day of Creation was a Saturday? It doesn't. And it wasn't.

Zeke25

 

[brrrilliantsteve]

Brother Zeke,

It seems you are referring to the redemptive work of Christ which only he could accomplish when you say `it has already been done without us`. I think you have mis-read my question.
I would like to re-phrase my Question.

We ALL worship God in different ways and on different days. Muslims on Friday, Jews & several other 7th day protestant faiths on Saturday, & the majority of Christendom on Sunday.
Given we all agree that God made the earth in 6 days and then created a 7th day which he furnished with blessings and also sanctified... (insert definition from your preferred source here)
How should we show our honor to God who instituted the blessings and sanctification of the 7th day.

Personally I choose to follow the example of our creator by resting from my work, by following Jesus example and not withholding doing good on the Sabbath, Spending time reading his word and praying, fellowship with other believers, spending time in nature, and generally trying to show others (presumably non-believers) the love of God.

 

[zeke25]

Brother Zeke,

It seems you are referring to the redemptive work of Christ which only he could accomplish when you say `it has already been done without us`. I think you have mis-read my question.
I would like to re-phrase my Question.

We ALL worship God in different ways and on different days. Muslims on Friday, Jews & several other 7th day protestant faiths on Saturday, & the majority of Christendom on Sunday.
Given we all agree that God made the earth in 6 days and then created a 7th day which he furnished with blessings and also sanctified... (insert definition from your preferred source here)
How should we show our honor to God who instituted the blessings and sanctification of the 7th day.

Personally I choose to follow the example of our creator by resting from my work, by following Jesus example and not withholding doing good on the Sabbath, Spending time reading his word and praying, fellowship with other believers, spending time in nature, and generally trying to show others (presumably non-believers) the love of God.

brrr,

In answer to your rephrased question:

Romans 14,
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

I do not take issue with those who want a special day of the week. Nor should they take issue with me, since I consider all days the same. God is Lord of the Sabbath, and all the others days of the month as well. Does this not strike agreement in your spirit?

My issue is with those who claim special blessing or knowledge or spirituality over others, in order to lord it over others, in order to place them in bondage under the Torah which Christ died to free us from. They want to crucify Christ all over again. They also want to take captives to their cause. (Acts 20, 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.)

The teaching of the 7th day in Creation Week, and the sabbath in the Ten Commandments, is just that a teaching. It is not an ordinance to be ritualistically following for all eternity. No, not at all. What we are being taught is that God has a sabbath for us to enter into. Let me give you the better phrase for that. God has a rest for us to enter into. He wants that all should enter into this rest. The 7th day and the sabbath were tools used to teach us of this rest that God has prepared for us. It is all about entering His rest. It is not about sabbath keeping. If one observes the sabbath for the wrong motives, then they are in grave error.

From post 81 of this thread:

2. The sabbath was also given by Yahowah as a precursor, as a type, to His rest that is yet to come for all His children who become born again. This rest, that is to come, is discussed in Hebrews 3:7-19 continuing through 4:1-11 KJV, "7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)" Here the word rest is first spoken in this group of Scriptures. This is the teaching on which we are focusing. "12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?" Rest is written here again. This is the true sabbath rest that God has been teaching throughout the Bible. Not a weekly rest, but a spiritual rest now in the present, and an eternal rest forever. "19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." and in Hebrews 4:1-5 KJV, "1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world." God has prepared a rest for us, but we must have the faith to enter into this rest. Beginning in Exodus 16 the Hebrews were taught to observe this rest by a weekly sabbath. However, they did not exercise and apply their faith. Therefore, God did not allow most of them to enter into His rest. "4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest." Here God shows the pattern and teaching He prepared for us even from the beginning, even from the seventh day of creation. He did not introduce the sabbath at this time however. But He did introduce the rest that He had prepared for us. It is the rest that God focuses on in Genesis 2:2-3 and here in Hebrews chapters three and four. In fact, the seventh day of creation week is a Friday, not a Saturday or Sabbath: see our treatise on the "Calendar of Scripture" parts I and II. His focus is not on the physical requirements of a sabbath rest day, instead His focus is on the spiritual rest from all our labors. His focus is on the spiritual rest that is ours when we rest in the finished work of Yahoshua on the tree of Calvary. We cannot strive to reach God and strive to maintain our salvation. We can only rest in the power and sovereignty of Yahowah. He did not need our help in creating the heavens and the Earth, He did not need our help in paying for our sins by Yahoshua's death on the tree, and He does not need our help in preparing an eternal rest for us. But He does want our faith and belief that He created the heavens and the Earth. And He wants our faith and belief that He did atone for our sins on the execution stake at Calvary. And He wants our faith and belief that we can enter into His rest. Without this faith we cannot please God, Hebrews 11:6. "Hebrews 4:6-11 KJV, "6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if [Yahoshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." This is what God was teaching in Genesis 2:2-3; this is what God was teaching in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5; and this is what God is teaching here in Hebrews 3 and 4. He is teaching of His rest, prepared for His people. The purpose of the old requirements to keep the weekly sabbath was not the beginning point nor the end point of His teachings and requirements; it was not the culminating point; it was not the ordinance above all ordinances to be observed by all for all time. No, not at all. Weekly sabbath keeping was only another tool along the way, used by God, to teach us the importance of entering into His spiritual and permanent rest.

Zeke25

BTW, my Father gave all of us this information and teaching. For those who will submit to the authority of the Scriptures, they too can glean it for themselves. He gave it to me, He can give it to anyone who will humble themselves before Him.

 

[Phoneman777]

You can't even read English. What's this mess you just typed? You're losing it Phoneyman, your connections are fried.

One thing you did say that might make sense: "The day you keep is the day dedicated to the Sun god." Oops, you couldn't have meant that. What a short memory you have? I never said that I worship on Sunday as a special day. I worship 7 days per week, they are all the same. More of your lies to insinuate that I do otherwise.

Phoneyman also said: "you fully disregard the Biblical prohibition that we should not "learn to do as the heathen" who reverenced the Day of the Sun in honor of Satan."

Zeke25: You're doing exactly that which you accuse me of. You are honoring Satan by using his calendar and his designated days and claiming that you are doing right.

Christians have the leeway to worship on Sundays on any calendar they want, but you do not. They are doing the best they can with the knowledge they have. But you are different. You claim to have superior knowledge and spirituality, when all you have is muddled and prideful thinking. God opposes the proud.

Zeke25

Zekoward, somewhere at this very moment Christian women and children are bravely facing Islam's wrath for their beliefs, so why can't you pluck up a little courage and publicly declare to everyone that we may break every one of the same Ten Commandments that you claim do not apply to Christians? Tell us that we may have other gods before God, blaspheme His name, engage in idolatry, kill, steal, commit adultery, etc. This requires far less courage than what our poor, persecuted Christian sisters and their little children are demonstrating, does it not?

 

[Phoneman777]

It is Gods covenant with israel. You are under a new covenant, you never had one before. Why are you doing what Christ said you shoulkd not do, try put the new wine into an old wine skin, it does not work.

In all his Love

Wrong, bro. God's New Covenant is also with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" and only with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah." We Christians are "Spiritual Israelites" who Paul says are Abraham's true descendants because we are Christ's, have God's same Ten Commandment law that was once written in stone in the OC now written on our hearts in the NC. (2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV)

 

[brakelite]

In this debate we have a mini replication of history. Brothers fighting over the correct forms of worship. (Genesis 4) This debate is also a microcosm of what is to take place in the near future on a global scale. The question we meed to ask ourselves is ...is the way we worship according to mans' commandments or God's? While you all lay claim to the Bible as your source of reference. your conclusions , whether it be 'Sunday' or the 'Jesus is my Sabbath rest' theory, are both subjective interpretation. There is not a 'thus sayeth the Lord' for either.
It was the subjective reasoning of Cain that resulted in Abel's demise. It will be the subjective reasoning of the future NWO that commits commandment keepers to their deaths. Same as what is happening here...Sabbath keepers being condemned because they simply want to obey God's commandments.