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So because you believe it to be so evil to 'add words to scripture' ( when you are applying that to us it appears that even commentary is evil) could yo provide scripture that tells us that the meaning of the concept "fulfilled" means "replaced"? For that appears to be what you are suggesting...that the whole law has been "replaced" with this new law you speak of "morallity".UppsalaDragby said:Brakelite, it sounds to me as though you are trying to suggest that I "agree" that there is some kind of division in the law between "ceremonial" or "civil" laws and "moral" laws. I have never, in this forum, or anywhere else, agreed with anything of the sort. What I agree with is what scripture says. Nothing else!
So if scripture says that Christ only fulfilled the "ceremonial" laws then that is what I would be agreeing with. OK?
But you cannot make a claim like that without breaking the commandment given to us by God NOT to add anything to his words. Jesus taught us that he had come to fulfill the Law - not simply a part of it!
Furthermore, I do NOT claim that the 7th commandment is appicable to Christians whereas the 4th is not. What on earth caused you to reach such a conclusion?
I have repeatedly pointed out that issues concerning morality are not only common in completely different legal systems, but also that the Mosiac Law was given to a specific group of people at a specific point in time.
And to support this, I have provided irrefutable scriptures that prove this to be a Biblical FACT. The law was given to Israel and to no other nation. The sabbath commandment was made known "by the hand Moses" (Neh 9:14) And it was given to "those who came out of the wilderness".. those who came "out of Egypt":
"Therefore I led them out of Egypt and brought them into the desert. I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy."
Sounds like a good idea.aspen said:This thread is begging to be locked......
Where did I equate being fulfilled with being replaced? That is nothing more than another strawman. I never made that claim at all. In fact I have pointed out the opposite time and time again and yet you still chose to missrepresent what I say. Romans 7:1-6 explains how it works. The law of adultery used here is as an illustration of how Christians have been released from the law (which is what scripture says, not me!). Nowhere does it say that the law itself was "replaced".... or abolished if you prefer to use that term. Think about what those verse are saying Brakelite! They don't say that anything has been replaced, they say that there are circumstances that make the law in question no longer applicable to the woman.brakelite said:So because you believe it to be so evil to 'add words to scripture' ( when you are applying that to us it appears that even commentary is evil) could yo provide scripture that tells us that the meaning of the concept "fulfilled" means "replaced"? For that appears to be what you are suggesting...that the whole law has been "replaced" with this new law you speak of "morallity".
Well "your" theology is incredibly similar to SDA theology, which suggests that those who are opposed to them are trying desparately to "alter" the law (probably in order to justify their own doctrine). The "change in the law" mentioned in scripture (Hebrews 7:12) has NOTHING to do with re-chiseling the 10 commandments! That is not what scripture is saying. There has been a change in the priesthood and therefore we are no longer under the covenant of the OLD levitical priesthood.My whole theology on his matter is in the belief that because the law is a reflection of the character and righteousness of God, and because God does not change, therefore neither can the law change.(I speak of the ten commandments).
That too is incredibly bad logic. The fact that we no longer are under the Mosaic covenant - due to the obvious fact that we are unable to keep it has NOTHING to do with God's character. It has to do with OUR character! And furthermore, where does scripture distinguish between which laws "reflect the character of God" and which laws do not?? There is NOTHING in scripture that supports that claim.The fact that the letter to the Hebrews states clearly the a law has changed, means that whatever law changed, it had nothing to do with that law that reflected the character of God. Because God does not change. (The law that changed is in fact explicitly stated, the law regarding the priesthood. Thus the ceremonial law).
Thus there is more than just one law. As I have contended from the beginning.
Fine, that's a good argument for you to keep the entire Mosaic covenant. Nothing more, nothing less!Jesus did not give anyone any new law. What He did, and what Isaiah prophesied He would do, was to put the magnifying glass to it and reveal it for what it truly was.Jesus made the law 'honorable' in the words of Isaiah.(Isa. 42:21)
Through Jesus' demonstrations of sacrificial unselfish agape love that excluded no-one regardless of race, gender, or nationality or social status, He revealed the true meaning of commandment keeping. It is through our acceptance of Himself into our lives through the Spirit that the law is fulfilled. (Romans 8:29; 13:9,10).
He is referring to the Ten Commandments, which none of these here opposed to the seventh day Sabbath will boldly declare that we are at liberty to violate. What an astounding rebuke to their inconsistent logic that "we Christians are not a liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that do not apply to Christians." What rubbish.brakelite said:Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
According to the Bible, what law is Paul referring to?
Thanks MJRHealth, one could hope that everyone could understand it as plainly as it is written.mjrhealth said:Lets what the bible says,
Mat 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
Mat 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
The old wine is what the Jewys had, the law, religion,
than Jesus did His bit than came pentecost,
in teh words of an observer,
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
And Jesus,
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
in All His Love
Phoneguy,Phoneman777 said:What an astounding rebuke to their inconsistent logic that "we Christians are not a liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that do not apply to Christians." What rubbish.
The Mosaic Covenant is not the Ten Commandments, else we'd be able to quote Romans 3:31 KJV as "Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the (Old Covenant).UppsalaDragby said:That too is incredibly bad logic. The fact that we no longer are under the Mosaic covenant - due to the obvious fact that we are unable to keep it has NOTHING to do with God's character. It has to do with OUR character! And furthermore, where does scripture distinguish between which laws "reflect the character of God" and which laws do not?? There is NOTHING in scripture that supports that claim.
Zekoward, it is you who stand rebuked by your own foolishly inconsistent logic that we are not at liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that you claim do not apply to Christians. The day I keep is the day of which Jesus is Lord - the Sabbath. The day you keep is the day dedicated to the Sun god. I marvel that you claim to have walked away from a job because of a Biblical prohibition against "oath swearing" but you fully disregard the Biblical prohibition that we should not "learn to do as the heathen" who reverenced the Day of the Sun in honor of Satan. More inconsistent foolishness on your part, Zekoward.zeke25 said:Phoneguy,
This rebuke you have written applies to you. You break the Ten Commandments every week when you go to church on Pope Gregory's sabbath. You are the one who not only does not observe God's Holy Sabbath, but mocks that Sabbath. Now if that's not "rubbish" (your words), then what is? You're a phony.
You can't even read English. What's this mess you just typed? You're losing it Phoneyman, your connections are fried.Phoneman777 said:Zekoward, it is you who stand rebuked by your own foolishly inconsistent logic that we are not at liberty to break the same Ten Commandments that you claim do not apply to Christians. The day I keep is the day of which Jesus is Lord - the Sabbath. The day you keep is the day dedicated to the Sun god. I marvel that you claim to have walked away from a job because of a Biblical prohibition against "oath swearing" but you fully disregard the Biblical prohibition that we should not "learn to do as the heathen" who reverenced the Day of the Sun in honor of Satan. More inconsistent foolishness on your part, Zekoward.
brrr,brrrilliantsteve said:zeke25 - the bible tells us this truth very clearly.
[SIZE=14.3360004425049px]My question (on the OP topic of Sabbath-Keeping) then becomes, what should we all do to sanctify, dedicate, hallow & separate the 7th day from the other 6.[/SIZE]
brrr,brrrilliantsteve said:Brother Zeke,
It seems you are referring to the redemptive work of Christ which only he could accomplish when you say `it has already been done without us`. I think you have mis-read my question.
I would like to re-phrase my Question.
We ALL worship God in different ways and on different days. Muslims on Friday, Jews & several other 7th day protestant faiths on Saturday, & the majority of Christendom on Sunday.
Given we all agree that God made the earth in 6 days and then created a 7th day which he furnished with blessings and also sanctified... (insert definition from your preferred source here)
How should we show our honor to God who instituted the blessings and sanctification of the 7th day.
Personally I choose to follow the example of our creator by resting from my work, by following Jesus example and not withholding doing good on the Sabbath, Spending time reading his word and praying, fellowship with other believers, spending time in nature, and generally trying to show others (presumably non-believers) the love of God.
Zekoward, somewhere at this very moment Christian women and children are bravely facing Islam's wrath for their beliefs, so why can't you pluck up a little courage and publicly declare to everyone that we may break every one of the same Ten Commandments that you claim do not apply to Christians? Tell us that we may have other gods before God, blaspheme His name, engage in idolatry, kill, steal, commit adultery, etc. This requires far less courage than what our poor, persecuted Christian sisters and their little children are demonstrating, does it not?zeke25 said:You can't even read English. What's this mess you just typed? You're losing it Phoneyman, your connections are fried.
One thing you did say that might make sense: "The day you keep is the day dedicated to the Sun god." Oops, you couldn't have meant that. What a short memory you have? I never said that I worship on Sunday as a special day. I worship 7 days per week, they are all the same. More of your lies to insinuate that I do otherwise.
Phoneyman also said: "you fully disregard the Biblical prohibition that we should not "learn to do as the heathen" who reverenced the Day of the Sun in honor of Satan."
Zeke25: You're doing exactly that which you accuse me of. You are honoring Satan by using his calendar and his designated days and claiming that you are doing right.
Christians have the leeway to worship on Sundays on any calendar they want, but you do not. They are doing the best they can with the knowledge they have. But you are different. You claim to have superior knowledge and spirituality, when all you have is muddled and prideful thinking. God opposes the proud.
Zeke25
Wrong, bro. God's New Covenant is also with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" and only with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah." We Christians are "Spiritual Israelites" who Paul says are Abraham's true descendants because we are Christ's, have God's same Ten Commandment law that was once written in stone in the OC now written on our hearts in the NC. (2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV)mjrhealth said:It is Gods covenant with israel. You are under a new covenant, you never had one before. Why are you doing what Christ said you shoulkd not do, try put the new wine into an old wine skin, it does not work.
In all his Love