Sabbath

[Axehead]

Like not killing and remaining faithful to ones mate and not lying?

Rom_13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another:for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Does your Bible say that we fulfill the law if we love one another?

Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

John 8_32, with the advent of Jesus Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit, God goes deeper with us than just the letter of the law and the outward observance of it. He is after our hearts and the attitudes of the inward man. True, you may not kill anyone, but God does not even want you to hate anyone. Isn't that right?

Does your Bible liken lust in your heart to adultery?
Mat_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Keeping the Law will not purify your heart, will it?

That is why Jesus says that the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. If you love your neighbor, you won't inwardly hate them. Jesus likened hate in our heart to murder.

When do you work?

Like Jesus, I am always working aren't you? Yet, I "labor" to always be at rest in Christ. Jesus was ALWAYS working, yet always resting in His Father's love and care. What do you define as work? Compare that to what Jesus defines as work.

John_9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Are you actually going to side with the OT Testament teaching about doing NO activity at all that it defines as work on the Sabbath? Remember, where a LAW exists there is a PENALTY. There is no such thing as a LAW without a PENALTY

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

You apparently don't work for my employer.

If your Employer is a Taskmaster, then yes, I don't work for him. He keeps trying to employ me, but I keep turning him down.

Here are my Master’s instructions to me.
Gal_5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Does that sound like a taskmaster?

Paul, another of His servants testifies this way.
Gal_5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal_5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal_5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Does your Bible say that the only thing that AVAILS is FAITH which WORKETH by LOVE?

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

The Law will not cleanse the heart or save an individual. That alone is the work of the Holy Spirit in response to one's faithful abiding in Christ.


Great chatting with you, John8_32,
Axehead

 

[Thegoodground]

And anyone who speaks of "wilful sin" concerning murder or adultery is acting completely against the Spirit of Pauls teaching; against truth?

This comment was in referrence to another members comment but in hindsight it was rather poorly worded. Should read "And anyone who speaks of "wilful sin" concerning Sabbath breaking is acting completely against the Spirit of Pauls teaching; against truth"

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

It's rather clever how Paul is able to combine both idolatry and observance of Law of Moses which were slavery to systems of salvation by works. In fact, the Law of Moses became idolarty in that they made it the commandments of men and worship it as such...but Gal 4 is not referring to the idolarty you have in mind.

You kind of left the context out, didn't you?

If it's context you want you ought to cont. to read the theme of the great allegory of Gal 4 which speaks to those in slavery to the Law (Bondmaid) and those in the freewoman (Sarah).

If fact you could conclude the entire chapter is one of slave verses free - Law vrs Grace.

Wouldnt you agree?

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Here Paul is referring to "A hard ceremonial idolatry" which is from Law

I think Gal 4:12 sums it up!...That is, I Paul was in bondage to Law also. I do hope you dont believe Paul was involved with paganism at any time in his life?

Once again careful reading.

So before these folks were called and converted, they did service to those who were not gods.

Not so.

Paul knew the circumcision party were endeavouring to convert Christians back to Judiaism, which is why Paul goes on to say with zeal!...

Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? (Gal 4:21)

And the introduction of Paul sets the tone for the entire chapter

But is under tutors and governors (The Law was a School Master...) until the time appointed of the father.

See Gal 3:24KJV Gal 3:25KJV

Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
(Gal 4:2-4)

Paul refers to the Law as the "elements of the world" not the entire world but the World relating to Jewry.

Now they were returning to weak and beggardly elements such as observing days, months, times and years. What were these?

Explained above.

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Gal 4:5 - Adoption of Sons could not take place until the Law or Elements of this World were taken out of the way.

Not the law of God,

I could see how you may think this however the Law of Moses represented sin not because it was not Holy Just and Good but due to its teaching work. The Law magnified man’s sinfulness therefore God allowed it to stand for that which stood against mankind.

Some here desire still to be servants rather than sons - Paul is showing the Galatian ekklesia they are not to return or be convinced to be shackled with Judiastic teaching.

Actually the Law is the central theme of Galatians mentioned over 25 times.

Throughout the book Paul is trying to get the believers to see a fundamental shift had taken place although the transition from Law to Grace was a difficult one.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (Gal 3:23)

rather the elements of the world.

Already defined above.

This is not a passage about the law of God, all one has to do is read the context. These folks were returning to pagan ways and practising syncretism.

I think as you read through my comments and consider the central theme of Galatians, and chapter 4, your understanding should come in line with Pauls.

There can be no mistaking the Sabbath day is no longer practiced if one is in Christ. The apostles taught that the law of Moses is "done away in Christ" (2 Cor 3:11-14), but not only so they single out the Sabbath for special indication.

Pauls states "Christ having blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ" (See Col. 2:16, 17).

In this fact was Pauls fear for the Galatians as it came to his knowledge they were "observing days, and months, and times, and years" (Gal. 4:10). He reminded them that Christ was "made under the law that he might redeem them that were under the law" (Gal 4:4, 5), who before time were "under the elements "of that system (Gal 4:3), but had now "received the adoption of sons " which made it an utterly incongruous thing in the eyes of Paul that they should "turn again to the weak and beggarly elements" of the law.

He confronts the beleivers after making this important disctinction with "Tell me", Paul says "ye that desire to be under the law"...then proceeded with the allegory of Sarah and Hagar (Gal 4:9, 21).

And as I have proven his words to the Romans he stated the observance of days which was essential under Moses is a matter of indifference to those who stand in Christ. "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord. He that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it" (Rom 14:5,6).

It is unScrpitural and a great mistake to speak of "a Christian Sabbath" in the sense of it being a day.

Thank you for you reply.

TGG

 

[Axehead]

Why would the Lord internalize 9 commandments but not the 4th commandment? The truth is that the 4th commandment is internalized, too. In the Old Testament, the Sabbath Day is only a type of rest that we have entered into, today, in Christ Jesus. No striving, no worrying, no more performance. Leaning completely on the arms of Jesus.

When a person is born-again, they immediately fulfill the first 4 commandments and will continue to fulfill them as they love the Lord their God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength and their neighbor as themselves.

1. They have turned to the Lord their God with all their heart and they have no other gods before them.
2. Instead of making graven images, for the first time in their lives they are worshipping God in the Spirit.
3. Rather than take the Lord thy God's name in vain, they exalt His name and worship and praise Him for their great deliverance.
4. They have entered into His rest and ceased from their own works of righteousness.

The Spirit of Reconciliation and Forgiveness will lead him to fulfill the other 6 as he walks with Christ.

This is the "Simplicity of Christ."


I think it's time to go back to Josh (original poster) on this thread now and ask him why he started this thread. He is no spring chicken and surely knows that he is giving a platform for Judaizers. Josh, while you are at it, tell us what the Sabbath means to you.

 

[Thegoodground]

Why would the Lord internalize 9 commandments but not the 4th commandment? The truth is that the 4th commandment is internalized, too. In the Old Testament, the Sabbath Day is only a type of rest that we have entered into, today, in Christ Jesus. No striving, no worrying, no more performance. Leaning completely on the arms of Jesus.

Axehead, I appreciated this post and especially the spiritual approach you have taken.

It is here we see how Christ being the Lord of the Sabbath, as he fulfilled all the Divine principles contained within God's appointment both in Creation and in Law but mostly in favour.

Well done.

TGG

 

[mjrhealth]

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Its all got to do with those verses. Who was under the law. the Jews, who did Jesus redeem from the law, The Jews, us gentiles never had the law, it was never ours never given to us, we came to Christ through grace.

In all His Love

 

[Axehead]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="mjrhealth" data-cid="178359" data-time="1356087838"><p>Its all got to do with those verses. Who was under the law. the Jews, who did Jesus redeem from the law, The Jews, us gentiles never had the law, it was never ours never given to us, we came to Christ through grace.<br />
<br />
In all His Love</p></blockquote>
<br />
But the spiritual principles still applies because the Enemy even tries to get Gentiles (who begin in the Spirit) to finish in the flesh. <br />
<br />
Law can be any work that one begins to depend on instead of Christ's sacrifice. Any word that one depends on for their righteous standing before God. <br />
<br />
This is why the entire Bible speaks to the spiritual man (James and Hebrews) included.<br />
<br />
For me, it was all the Catholic "laws" growing up, trying to work my way to heaven. I never heard the true Gospel of being saved by grace through faith hoping that I would just make it to Purgatory. <br />
<br />
The whole Bible is keenly relevant to non-Jews in the flesh who have become true Jews in the Spirit. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Thegoodground" data-cid="178340" data-time="1356062869"><p>Axehead, I appreciated this post and especially the spiritual approach you have taken.<br />
<br />
It is here we see how Christ being the Lord of the Sabbath, as he fulfilled all the Divine principles contained within God's appointment both in Creation and in Law but mostly in favour.<br />
<br />
Well done.<br />
<br />
TGG</p></blockquote>
<br />
<br />
<br />
Thank you, Thegoodground. One good thing about forums is that they constantly challenge me to think of better ways to communicate my thoughts.<br />
<br />
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="mjrhealth" data-cid="178359" data-time="1356087838"><p><br />
Its all got to do with those verses. Who was under the law. the Jews, who did Jesus redeem from the law, The Jews, us gentiles never had the law, it was never ours never given to us, we came to Christ through grace.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
In all His Love</p></blockquote><br />
<br />
The key is what law He redeemed us from. And EVERYONE has been redeemed from the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. <br />
<br />
Romans_8:2<br />
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Raeneske]

There are those who claim the Sabbath was nailed to the cross. Then it is claimed that we keep the Sabbath by resting in Christ. Which is it? Was the Sabbath Commandment nailed, or do you still have to keep it?

 

[marksman]

Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.

The literal translation of this is "And on the first of the Sabbaths the disciples having been assembled to break bread, being about to depart on the morrow, Paul reasoned to them. And he continued his speech until midnight.

NOTE: The word is Sabbath, not first. And another note is that Paul spoke till midnight. If they met Sunday morning it was rather a long sermon. Say about 12 hours.

1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.

The literal interpretation of this verse is " On one of the Sabbaths let each of you put by himself, storing up whatever he is prospered, that there not be collections then when I come.

NOTE: The word is Sabbath, not first.

The other point is there is nothing here about meeting together. It was an instruction as what they should do with their money.

 

[John_8:32]

The literal translation of this is "And on the first of the Sabbaths the disciples having been assembled to break bread, being about to depart on the morrow, Paul reasoned to them. And he continued his speech until midnight.

NOTE: The word is Sabbath, not first. And another note is that Paul spoke till midnight. If they met Sunday morning it was rather a long sermon. Say about 12 hours.


The literal interpretation of this verse is " On one of the Sabbaths let each of you put by himself, storing up whatever he is prospered, that there not be collections then when I come.

NOTE: The word is Sabbath, not first.

The other point is there is nothing here about meeting together. It was an instruction as what they should do with their money.

Actually, 1Cor 16:2 is not about money...

Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
Act 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

The Diaglott has it...

1 Corinthians 16:1 Concerning and the collection that for the saints, as I appointed to the
congregations of the Gentiles, so also you do.
1 Corinthians 16:2 Every first of week each one of you by itself let him place, treasuring up, what
thing he may be prospered; so that not when I may come, then collections may be made.
1 Corinthians 16:3 When and I may arrive, whom if you may approve, by letters these I will send to
carry the gift of you to Jerusalem;
1 Corinthians 16:4 if but it may be be worthy of the even me to go, with me they shall go.
1 Corinthians 16:5 I will come but to you, when Macedonia I may have passed through;
(Macedonia for I pass through
1 Corinthians 16:6 with you and it may happen I will remain, or even I shall winter, so that you me
may send before where if I may go

2Co 1:15 And in this confidence I was minded to come unto you before, that ye might have a second benefit;
2Co 1:16 And to pass by you into Macedonia, and to come again out of Macedonia unto you, and of you to be brought on my way toward Judaea.

2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2Co 9:2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
2Co 9:3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
2Co 9:4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
2Co 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
2Co 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
2Co 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
2Co 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

This was a collection of foodstuffs for the starving saints in Judea. It had nothing to do with passing the plate on a 'Sunday got to meeting'. The instruction (as the Diaglott says) was to collect this on the first day of the week because it was heavy work to collect, dry, prepare and store these foodstuffs so that Paul and Barnabas and whomever else they determined, could take them to Jerusalem.

 

[Thegoodground]

There are those who claim the Sabbath was nailed to the cross. Then it is claimed that we keep the Sabbath by resting in Christ. Which is it? Was the Sabbath Commandment nailed, or do you still have to keep it?

The interpretation has been made known to you within this thread.

Your response is to accept it in truth.

 

[marksman]

Actually, 1Cor 16:2 is not about money...

Actually in my bible it is as it is talking about a person succeeding in business. if your business is making leather products, you have no produce to give.

One thing is sure. it is definitely not about the church meeting on Sunday morning.

 

[Raeneske]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Thegoodground" data-cid="179632" data-time="1357251993"><p>
The interpretation has been made known to you within this thread.<br />
<br />
Your response is to accept it in truth.</p></blockquote>

The interpretation of mankind, and a rebellious angel has been made known to me on this.

The statements are contradictory. The claim is Jesus is the Sabbath, but then we are told we don't have to keep the Sabbath. Anything is used to remove the obligation from the 7th Day Sabbath.

Much like the Tithe, it is not explicitly stated within the New Testament. But it an assumed validity like the tithe. You give the Lord %10 of what He's given to you, and you give the Lord the time He deserves. The Law still stands as is, and stands in Heaven as well. Angels are obediant to the Law, and so are those who are the true Saints of Christ Jesus (Revelation 14:12). Keep God's Commandments, all ten. The picking and choosing is over with. You either keep all 10, or you keep neither of them. There is not 9 commandments, there are 10. You will find another man with that understanding. He is John the Revelator. Read the first chapter of Revelation and watch him keep the Sabbath. Watch him, in Spirit worship the Lord on HIS day, te Sabbath Day, the Day Jesus is LORD of, and watch for his obediance receive the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Obediance is a must. No one is saving themselves by obediance. Because we are forgiven, we obey. So, for being forgiven for breaking His Sabbath, much like breaking any other commandment, we long to keep the commandments of God, and keep a smile upon His face. If we continue to break something which is made totally for the goodwill of men, then God will in turn reject us. There is no middle ground with the 10 Commandments as Christians seek. You either keep every single one of them, or you keep not a single one at all.

 

[mjrhealth]

God will in turn reject us.

So God has no grace, God is not love, we are not actually forgiven.

Anything is used to remove the obligation from the 7th Day Sabbath

No its teh flesh that tries to please God through its works, since the Law is not ours. You are either forgiven or not, it is either Grace or not. Which do you choose, teh Law which you keep running too, or Grace, A FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

In All His Love

 

[Raeneske]

So God has no grace, God is not love, we are not actually forgiven.




No its teh flesh that tries to please God through its works, since the Law is not ours. You are either forgiven or not, it is either Grace or not. Which do you choose, teh Law which you keep running too, or Grace, A FREE GIFT FROM GOD.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

In All His Love

God is love, you are forgiven for breaking the law. You are not loosed from obediance to the 10 Commandments. That is not love, to be loosed from such an obligation. No one is going to tell me that you actually love God and your neighbours when you routinely break the other 9 commandments. But when the obligation is shown for the 4th as well, the entire Law of God is almost tossed away. You cannot pick and choose. You are required to keep every single one of them, or none of them at all.

Has salvation, being a free gift from God, meant that you are not now required to be obediant to the Lord thy God? What is the entire duty of man?

Ecclesiates 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Are you allowed, to even break the least commandments of God?

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You are to teach them, and do them, says the Lord Jesus Christ. He does not dance around the subject, nor does He ever state that we are doing it to get salvation ourself. We are to be obediant because we are saved. Jesus showed you are still required, even though you have grace, to keep the Law of God. This is a New Testament teaching, to keep the 10 Commandments of God.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

And before that verse is taken out of context, to mean the law is not good for you, that's not what it's saying. The law works wrath only to the disobediant, not to the keeper of the law. If the 10 Commandments did not exist, if you did not have to keep them, it would be impossible for you to sin. Because there is nothing there to tell you what sin is.

Jesus did not abolish to the 10 Commandments. Jesus abolished the commandments contained in ordinances, which is not the 10 Commandment law contained in stone. Did Jesus nail stone to the cross with Him as well, or just the law contained in ordinances. And finally, what is found within Heaven?

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

So then, who are the true Saints of God? Is it those who only have the faith in God and nothing else? Or is it them who also keep the Commandments of God as well, as have the faith?

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[mjrhealth]

Well not much to say, you are obsessed with the law, its not about the law its about love, but you seem afraid to displease God, Why is it you think you have to keep the Law, do you not think that in love this is done. So which of the laws did you break today, you do realize that any sin you committed today is accounted in the law and for such you shall be judged.

Again Grace or the Law its one choice not both. Quoting text from the bible doesnt change things.

Revelation, I hope you do get some, than you will have this heavy burden removed from you. Carry it if you like, But Jesus did ask we take His yoke upon our shoulders for it is light.

In all His Love

 

[Raeneske]

Well not much to say, you are obsessed with the law, its not about the law its about love, but you seem afraid to displease God, Why is it you think you have to keep the Law, do you not think that in love this is done. So which of the laws did you break today, you do realize that any sin you committed today is accounted in the law and for such you shall be judged.


Again Grace or the Law its one choice not both. Quoting text from the bible doesnt change things.

Revelation, I hope you do get some, than you will have this heavy burden removed from you. Carry it if you like, But Jesus did ask we take His yoke upon our shoulders for it is light.

In all His Love

"Obsessed with the law" -- Not really, and I find that accusation rather strange, as you are on a topic about The Law of God, specifically the Sabbath.

You're right when you say it's about love. But you are conclusively wrong when you say it's not about the law. The Law of God tells you how to love. You are a human being, sinful and erring. Love is not determined by your feelings in your heart. God's ways are not your ways, His thoughts are higher than your thoughts. Therefore, God specifically made the 10 Commandments known to the followers of Jesus Christ on how to love.

How do we love our neighbour as ourselves? Scripture tells you:

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Plain and simple, if you truly love your neighbour as yourself, if you truly fulfill the law with your love, you will not be found breaking those commandments. For this is love -- not murdering, not stealing, not coveting, etc.

"Quoting texts from the Bible does not change things" -- That is quite a hefty statement. But see, it changes everything. It's what you and I are to wrap our understandings around, and not the other way around. God's word made it abundantly clear that while you are under grace, you still have absolutely no license to break the law. So here's the breakdown:

Under the law - You must keep the law, or you shall die. There is no way to be saved if you break this.

Under grace - You must keep the law, or you shall die. However, if you accidentally break this (and I mean accidental, and not a routine decision, like claiming it doesn't matter if you keep the law) you are under the grace of God, and you can repent of the sin, and completely be forgiven of the debt, and you shall not die.

You are therefore bidden to show me how you can love God and your neighbour without keeping the 10 Commandments. Show me how it is possible to love anyone, while routinely stamping out the Law of God. I want you to go over every single point of the 10 commandments, and tell me how it's love when you routinely break every single one. You have the floor.

 

[mjrhealth]

Unless your name is Jesus, i think you would find what you are trying to do impossible, which is why He did it.

Anyway your choice not mine.

2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Its enough for me and Him This is no glory in my flesh or my works only in Him.

In His Love

 

[Raeneske]

Unless your name is Jesus, i think you would find what you are trying to do impossible, which is why He did it.

Anyway your choice not mine.

2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Its enough for me and Him This is no glory in my flesh or my works only in Him.

In His Love

With men, it is impossible, but with God all things are impossible.

What I am trying to do, is what scripture tells you. Be ye holy, for God is holy. Keep the Commandments of God. If Jesus is truly within you, you will be keeping the 10 Commandments, no questions asked. Will you make mistakes? Of course. But will you routinely ignore, anc claim you don't have to keep the 10 Commandments? Absolutely not.

The point I made, is that you are not to decide the law does not matter, and routinely decide that transgressing the Law of God is okay. Jesus in you fulfills the law. Scripture shows by GRACE YOU ARE SAVED. So why cannot a Christian boast when he has been keeping the law? Because it is NOT his own power, but Christ's power.

If a man is an adulterer, and does so routinely, can he honestly claim that he does not have to worry about the law? Absolutely not. No one can claim that while transgressing any precept rountinely, and claiming the law does not matter.

There is no glory in the flesh when a Christian keeps the Commandments of God. Scripture has told you, the true Saints of Jesus Christ do BOTH. And they are able to do so, BECAUSE of Christ. You are not saving yourself, Christ is in you giving you strength. That's why the Lord is glorified. When you actually don't sin, you know that it was through no merit of yourself. It was because of Christ.

You have not done what I have asked. You are bidden to show me how you love God and your neighbour by transgressing those 10 precepts. Point by point, I would like an explanation how you can routinely ignore and break every single one, and still claim to love God and your fellow man. If you know that is impossible to do, just say so, mjrhealth.

 

[mjrhealth]

You still dont get it do you, You sit there and judge me as if I do those things because I refuse to hold onto the law, which is not mine nor yours, you simply dont seem to be able to grasp that is out of love we dont do those things, nothing to do with the law. Now you seem to be well learned in the bible, now all you need to do is take these things to Jesus and ask Him and know Him.

In His Love

 

[Raeneske]

You still dont get it do you, You sit there and judge me as if I do those things because I refuse to hold onto the law, which is not mine nor yours, you simply dont seem to be able to grasp that is out of love we dont do those things, nothing to do with the law. Now you seem to be well learned in the bible, now all you need to do is take these things to Jesus and ask Him and know Him.

In His Love

I have stated in previous posts, we do not break the law because we love God. Love is what actuates us to fulfill these things (Romans 13:8-10). However, the point of this discussion is to open the eyes of those who are truly following the lamb of God. The desecration of the 4th Commandment will become valid proof who truly does and does not love the Lord of the Sabbath. If you love the Lord of the Sabbath, keep the Sabbath. It is that message which I am trying to convey. The world has been taught to ignore this precept. And now, the world will be taught to re-look upon the transcript of God's character. You do not know love by your feelings. You know love by your actions. If you continually claim to have the love of God, but your actions continually point otherwise, it is made manifest by your actions the lack of love. So, when someone says they love the Lord of the Sabbath, but continue to desecrate His day, the fruits of that person is made manifest.