"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[theefaith]

Okay...I will humor you:

Choose what ever bible version you prefer, but what is your take away-- How many types of birth are named regarding mankind?​

mine Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration eph 5:4
Mk 16:16
Cannot enter the kingdom without baptism it’s even in the prophecy of the new covenant ez 36:25:27

 

[ScottA]

4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.1 Peter 1:4-5. ​

As we can see, he's speaking of that which is "reserved in heaven for you". We don't have the fullness of salvation and the inheritance now. We will receive that when Jesus returns.

You are repeating yourself and your error in understanding, which you can certainly continue in until you die--but, the thief on the cross came into paradise (heaven) that very day--2,000 years ago, and this is the measure of how far off you are.

But you were correct about it being "when Christ returns."

 

[ScottA]

mine Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration eph 5:4
Mk 16:16
Cannot enter the kingdom without baptism it’s even in the prophecy of the new covenant ez 36:25:27

That was not my question.

You already know what you have just stated, and now I also know what you know because you have told me. But the question I asked is common biblical information that apparently you do not know...so, I ask again:

How many types of birth are named in the Bible regarding mankind?​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the thief on the cross came into paradise (heaven) that very day--2,000 years ago

...But not into the kingdom with a glorified body.

 

[ScottA]

...But not into the kingdom with a glorified body.

Well...if you are going to add the terms of religious folly--No, that he did not do.

Ferris, please understand that the events of God do not exist on such a timeline as you have based your beliefs, but are merely revealed on one.

In other words, the saying "to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord", is a true statement, and true for all including you and I and the thief on the cross. This is biblical--but has not been fully understood. Nonetheless, I am speaking from that standpoint of ultimate truth when I tell you (just as Jesus told him) that the thief on the cross entered the kingdom that very day.

The difficulty is in understanding the transition of all things from Time to eternity. But that is exactly what God has and is doing day by day, wherein He has been dividing the light from the darkness since the beginning. This is why Paul came to say of Christ's return "but each one in his own order." Which is how it is experienced from our historical timeline--but only from this side of that godly equation. From the other side--from God's eternal side where there is "no shadow of turning" (no time), there is no timeline, no "each one in his own order", and certainly no pre', post', etc. worldly nonsense.

I could go on--but you should first surrender your worldly perspective, "renew your mind" to the truth and reality of God from which I have been presenting the truth to you. You decide.

 

[Marymog]

Thats Spiritual Baptism, not the city water suppy, Marymog.

Baptized in the SPIRIT, (with the Holy Spirit) is how God creates the new birth.

The WASHING of REGENERATION... not the washing of water.

"regeneration" is the act of converting the "dead spirit" into the BORN AGAIN Spirit, that is accomplished by the HOLY Spirit......not by the city water supply.

Water can't cause your spirit to be born again.
Water is just water., and if it could save you then we'd all be saved when we took a bath or shower.

Your men have lied to you. Run from those false teachers:
God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body,

 

[ScottA]

Your men have lied to you. Run from those false teachers:
God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body,

It is not the waters below the firmament that save, but those above...as it has been since the beginning.

This is that other flood that was poured out upon all flesh prophesied by Joel the prophet, sent and fulfilled by Jesus, and confirmed by Peter.

 

[ScottA]

Sir, have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? And unto what were you baptized?

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

That is indeed the dividing line. However, many are confused by accusations of sins during these times of walking in the spirit of God while carrying that carcass of death unto death.

You have answered, but how would you give an answer to what is not as it seems?

 

[Behold]

, eight persons, were saved through water. 21

You are blinded by the Pope.

Listen.

Had NOAH left the ARK, and gotten in the water that you believe is salvation, He would have been drowned by "Catholic Salvation". = the lie of "baptismal regeneration".

Let me show the readers the reality, as you can't be shown anything but a photo of Mary to adore.

Reader, the ARK, saved Noah from the WATER that was killing everything outside the ARK that this deceiver believes is His savior according to the lie that is the "cult of Mary".

What is the ARK of Noah?
Its symbolic of the CROSS of Christ.
The WATER was JUDGEMENT.... and Noah's ARK was SALVATION.

Do the math.

 

[Marymog]

You are blinded by the Pope.

Listen.

Had NOAH left the ARK, and gotten in the water that you believe is salvation, He would have been drowned by "Catholic Salvation". = the lie of "baptismal regeneration".

Let me show the readers the reality, as you can't be shown anything but a photo of Mary to adore.

Reader, the ARK, saved Noah from the WATER that was killing everything outside the ARK that this deceiver believes is His savior according to the lie that is the "cult of Mary".

What is the ARK of Noah?
Its symbolic of the CROSS of Christ.
The WATER was JUDGEMENT.... and Noah's ARK was SALVATION.

Do the math.

You crack me up behold.

Your men have lied to you: In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, ". Scripture does not say the Ark was salvation. Your men taught you that....and you drank the Kool aide. Notice how what your men have taught you is opposite of what Scripture teaches?

The Pope is teaching what Christianity has taught for 2,000 years. Let's look at the first 170 years of historical Christian writings to back that up:

Hermas
“‘I have heard, sir,’ said I [to the Shepherd], ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’” (The Shepherd 4:3:1–2 [A.D. 80]).

Justin Martyr
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).

Tertullian
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

In summary: Your men are wrong AND they teach opposite of Scripture AND they teach opposite of the earliest teachings of The Church. The Pope doesn't.

 

[Marymog]

It is not the waters below the firmament that save, but those above...as it has been since the beginning.

This is that other flood that was poured out upon all flesh prophesied by Joel the prophet, sent and fulfilled by Jesus, and confirmed by Peter.

And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—

I will keep repeating Scripture. You can keep repeating your opinion.

 

[Behold]

You crack me up behold.

Your men have lied to you: In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, ". Scripture does not say the Ark was salvation. .

The Bible has a lot of analogy and symbolism, in it.
Its also a completely spiritual book. So, when you read like a newspaper, you end up outside of it's Light, trying to prove what you dont understand.
And there we find all your posts.

Listen...

Noah would have died, along with His Family, had they gotten into the WATER that was drowning everything that was outside the Ark.
When do you think you will understand this? Never ?
Seems so, Marymog.
Inside the Ark was their salvation found, outside the ark was Judgement and Death, waiting.
The Ark was the SAFETY Zone. It kept them FROM the Judgement of God that was the FLOOD of WATER.

The Flood, (the water) was God's Judgment RAINING down.
The Ark was the safety, the protection, the safe place.... symbolic of The Cross.
Did you notice that both are made of Wood? (Trees).

The Cross is a type of Noah's ark, that will protect and does protect all believers from God's eternal Judgement, based on Jesus's death on the Cross.

 

[ScottA]

And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—

I will keep repeating Scripture. You can keep repeating your opinion.

Repeating the prefigure like groundhog day is not repeating scripture, nor does it save, but is a sign of unbelief.

 

[Marymog]

Repeating the prefigure like groundhog day is not repeating scripture, nor does it save, but is a sign of unbelief.

Scotty,

Once again, thank you for your opinion. I will gladly repeat Scripture time and time again to back up what I say and continue to teach you (2 Timothy 3:16). I will never get tired of repeating it since it continues to prove your opinion wrong. I will hold fast to Titus 1:9!

You reject 1 Peter 3:21 (baptism now saves you). You reject Matthew 28:19 (the command to baptize all). You reject Acts 22:16 (baptism washes away sin). You reject Acts 2:38 (baptism for remission of sins and gift of Holy Spirit). For you see Scotty boy we must do what he tells us to do so we can be saved. Since you reject and do not believe all those passages, you reject Him.

You reject the historical teachings/writings from the first 120 years of The Church (Didache, Hermas, Justin Martyr) about the necessity of water baptism AND how it saves us.

You accept the teachings/writings of the men POST Reformation. You are in a quagmire.

I never get tired of proving you wrong. Do you ever get tired of me proving you wrong Scotty?

 

[MatthewG]

Truth is it Jesus who would come to baptize a person…

John said it himself, when he said there is one who is coming who will Baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The water Baptism is just an outward expression of and inward faith nothing wrong with that but the realize baptism that matters is the one Jesus bestows on a person who is looking and believing on the one who God had sent, died, was buried and raised again ascended, and returned.

 

[Charlie24]

Scotty,

Once again, thank you for your opinion. I will gladly repeat Scripture time and time again to back up what I say and continue to teach you (2 Timothy 3:16). I will never get tired of repeating it since it continues to prove your opinion wrong. I will hold fast to Titus 1:9!

You reject 1 Peter 3:21 (baptism now saves you). You reject Matthew 28:19 (the command to baptize all). You reject Acts 22:16 (baptism washes away sin). You reject Acts 2:38 (baptism for remission of sins and gift of Holy Spirit). For you see Scotty boy we must do what he tells us to do so we can be saved. Since you reject and do not believe all those passages, you reject Him.

You reject the historical teachings/writings from the first 120 years of The Church (Didache, Hermas, Justin Martyr) about the necessity of water baptism AND how it saves us.

You accept the teachings/writings of the men POST Reformation. You are in a quagmire.

I never get tired of proving you wrong. Do you ever get tired of me proving you wrong Scotty?

You haven't proven anyone wrong, what you have proven is that you don't understand the spiritual aspect of "the baptism into Christ" that Paul explained in Rom. 6.

You don't understand that Ananias was speaking of the symbol of the spiritual baptism "washing away sins."

You don't understand that only the blood of Christ can wash away sins, and that water baptism is the symbol of that sin being washed away.

Salvation takes place inside man's heart, Paul said, "for with the heart man believes unto righteousness." Water baptism is the public confession of that salvation. It symbolizes all that took place in the heart when man believes, the real salvation, the spiritual act of salvation that took place in the heart.

 

[Marymog]

The Bible has a lot of analogy and symbolism, in it.
Its also a completely spiritual book. So, when you read like a newspaper, you end up outside of it's Light, trying to prove what you dont understand.
And there we find all your posts.

Listen...

Noah would have died, along with His Family, had they gotten into the WATER that was drowning everything that was outside the Ark.
When do you think you will understand this? Never ?
Seems so, Marymog.
Inside the Ark was their salvation found, outside the ark was Judgement and Death, waiting.
The Ark was the SAFETY Zone. It kept them FROM the Judgement of God that was the FLOOD of WATER.

The Flood, (the water) was God's Judgment RAINING down.
The Ark was the safety, the protection, the safe place.... symbolic of The Cross.
Did you notice that both are made of Wood? (Trees).

The Cross is a type of Noah's ark, that will protect and does protect all believers from God's eternal Judgement, based on Jesus's death on the Cross.

Dear behold,

I agree. Scripture has a lot of analogy and symbolism in it. Scripture uses the analogy about Noah and his family showing us that 8 were saved thru water. Water is used as a "symbol" to save us. Just like Scripture says. When you don't know how to read Scripture then you come up with the conclusion that water does not save us....even though Scripture says that it does.

Lesson of the day :

Why does Scripture say that 8 were saved by water when it seems very clear that the wood boat saved them? Because it was the intent of God to teach man the necessity of water baptism! The flood, which was Gods wrath/judgement, destroyed sin and took it away from the world. That flood water washed away sin. That same flood water lifted up and put 8 above and saved them from that sin/evil. Here is the cool part Behold that your men failed to teach you! Noah sent out a dove and it eventually returned with an olive leaf. What does a dove represent in Scripture Behold? What does an olive leaf represent in Noah's story Behold? The dove represents the Holy Spirit. The olive leaf represented a new life. So we have water that saved 8 AND washed away sin AND a dove (Holy Spirit) and an olive leaf (new life) all in the same story. Golly gee......... Hmmmm.......What is going on here . Kind of sounds like Acts 2:38 and 22:16 might be connected to the whole Noah thing Behold. And putting all that in context with 1 Peter 3:21 it all makes sense now. Water does save us, just like it saved the 8, AND it washes away sin and gives us a new life.....you know, just like Scripture says it does.

 

[Marymog]

Truth is it Jesus who would come to baptize a person…

John said it himself, when he said there is one who is coming who will Baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The water Baptism is just an outward expression of and inward faith nothing wrong with that but the realize baptism that matters is the one Jesus bestows on a person who is looking and believing on the one who God had sent, died, was buried and raised again ascended, and returned.

Nope, water baptism is NOT just an "outward expression". Baptism is necessary: Matthew 28:19

 

[MatthewG]

Nope, water baptism is NOT just an "outward expression". Baptism is necessary: Matthew 28:19

simply rejection of what John stated. And I believe that Matthew 28:19 is a commandment for the disciples at the time which they went out and did what Jesus said.

was John speaking truth or not? John the Baptist was a liar if he said Jesus Christ comes baptizing in the Holy Spirit and fire?

 

[Marymog]

You haven't proven anyone wrong, what you have proven is that you don't understand the spiritual aspect of "the baptism into Christ" that Paul explained in Rom. 6.

You don't understand that Ananias was speaking of the symbol of the spiritual baptism "washing away sins."

You don't understand that only the blood of Christ can wash away sins, and that water baptism is the symbol of that sin being washed away.

Salvation takes place inside man's heart, Paul said, "for with the heart man believes unto righteousness." Water baptism is the public confession of that salvation. It symbolizes all that took place in the heart when man believes, the real salvation, the spiritual act of salvation that took place in the heart.

Hey Charlie. Thank you for your opinion. I will continue to repeat Scripture.

Scripture says Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away! Since we KNOW for a FACT that water was used by NT Christians when baptizing then we KNOW that water baptism washes away your sin.....Just like Scripture says.

We KNOW for a FACT that NT Christians were commanded in Matthew 28:19 to baptize all. Sooooooo getting baptized is NOT a symbol or an option.....it is a COMMAND!! A COMMAND by Him is not symbolic. We must do what He tells us to do because if we don't.....well, you know what happens to those that don't do what He tells them to do!!

What you and what the men who taught you fail to understand is that BOTH can be true: The blood of Christ can wash away sins and batpismal water can wash away sins. Scripture says both are true...but you reject one of them. Why?