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ScottA

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Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14 KJV)

The wide gate and broad way lead to destruction (Pro_16:25). The narrow gate and difficult way lead to life. Jesus is both the gate (Joh_10:9) and the way (Joh_14:6). Jesus is saying that to follow Him require faith, discipline, and endurance. But this difficult life is the only life worth living. If you choose the easy way, you will have plenty of company, but that road leads to destruction.
That is all true, but you have not "rightly divided" that which pertains to the dead, from that which pertains to the living. This is the sword that Jesus said He brought to the world rather than peace. Indeed, many do not discover just what it is that He was referring to.
 

Cooper

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That is all true, but you have not "rightly divided" that which pertains to the dead, from that which pertains to the living. This is the sword that Jesus said He brought to the world rather than peace. Indeed, many do not discover just what it is that He was referring to.
If I wanted your understanding of "rightly dividing" I would ask, but as it is, I see people dividing scripture in many different ways, but that is not what Jesus meant. Sorry about the rant, I am simply tired of all the false teaching.
 
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Keiw

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You contradict yourself.

If I am "in Christ" it is finished. To say it is not, is to say that Christ is not finished-- which you just said He was.

The matter of "enduring to the end", is not what you make of it-- It is not the end of the flesh living in the world. "We who are alive and remain" in the world, have already come to "the End." The End is Jesus. It is no longer we who live, but He who lives. "For me, to live is Christ."

Having quoted both Jesus and Paul, surely you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth", but are mixing what they preached to Israel for Israel, with what they also preached regarding the "other fold" whom Jesus said He "must also bring." Both narratives are in the gospels, but indeed, they must be "rightly divided", or those captives whom Christ came to set free-- are not free. That whole line of thinking makes Jesus out to be a liar.

But, that whole line of thinking is only confusion, for we are free indeed.


Here at Matthew 7:22-23 Jesus is clear-- All can see these are those told they are christian, obviously believe they are saved and covered by Jesus and yes they believe--this is judgement scenario--He tells them--Get away from me you who work iniquity(practice a sin) i must confess i never even knew you.
Jaws will be dropped to the floor. At Hebrews 10:26 it is clear--There is no sacrafice left for any who practice a sin. So i would say those teaching what you believe are these teachers-2Cor 11:12-15--Run from them.
 
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Cooper

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Here at Matthew 7:22-23 Jesus is clear-- All can see these are those told they are christian, obviously believe they are saved and covered by Jesus and yes they believe--this is judgement scenario--He tells them--Get away from me you who work iniquity(practice a sin) i must confess i never even knew you.
Jaws will be dropped to the floor. At Hebrews 10:26 it is clear--There is no sacrafice left for any who practice a sin. So i would say those teaching what you believe are these teachers-2Cor 11:12-15--Run from them.
It wouldn't surprise me if people who post this stuff aren't teachers themselves. They need an education. When the Bible tells people their end is worse than their beginning if they turn away from God, it is not talking to people who have never believed.
 
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ScottA

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If I wanted your understanding of "rightly dividing" I would ask, but as it is, I see people dividing scripture in many different ways, but that is not what Jesus meant. Sorry about the rant, I am simply tired of all the false teaching.
So then, state it clearly:

Did Jesus not say that He has brought a "sword" which He warned would cause some to be "cut in two?" And did Paul not say that what Jesus brought should be "divided" or "rightly" "cut" or "handled", because there are those who do not do it and therefore misrepresent the gospel? Is this not a doctrine that they established, but few have embraced, and instead reject?​
 

ScottA

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Here at Matthew 7:22-23 Jesus is clear-- All can see these are those told they are christian, obviously believe they are saved and covered by Jesus and yes they believe--this is judgement scenario--He tells them--Get away from me you who work iniquity(practice a sin) i must confess i never even knew you.
Jaws will be dropped to the floor. At Hebrews 10:26 it is clear--There is no sacrafice left for any who practice a sin. So i would say those teaching what you believe are these teachers-2Cor 11:12-15--Run from them.
I would also say to run from those teaching to continue in sin.

But that is not what I said.

Apparently, you misunderstood...and because you do, you are probably among those who are not "rightly dividing" the gospel...because they have not "heard" His voice. And these are those of whom He warned He would "cut in two and appoint his portion with the hypocrites."

So we can either reconcile these passages or pit them at each other as with that sword that does not bring peace, again, just as Christ warned.

If you will hear it, what I have done, is I have indeed reconciled the objection verses with these that I have presented, and they do agree. The choice then, is whether to continue in disagreement without peace, or enter into His peace and realize that Paul's instructions to rightly divide the gospel was first forewarned by Jesus, and then inspired by Him who He sent by another Helper.

But I caution you, the warnings still apply.
 

Keiw

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I would also say to run from those teaching to continue in sin.

But that is not what I said.

Apparently, you misunderstood...and because you do, you are probably among those who are not "rightly dividing" the gospel...because they have not "heard" His voice. And these are those of whom He warned He would "cut in two and appoint his portion with the hypocrites."

So we can either reconcile these passages or pit them at each other as with that sword that does not bring peace, again, just as Christ warned.

If you will hear it, what I have done, is I have indeed reconciled the objection verses with these that I have presented, and they do agree. The choice then, is whether to continue in disagreement without peace, or enter into His peace and realize that Paul's instructions to rightly divide the gospel was first forewarned by Jesus, and then inspired by Him who He sent by another Helper.

But I caution you, the warnings still apply.


The passages you showed are to the righteous only. Are you saying Paul is not correct?
 

ScottA

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The passages you showed are to the righteous only. Are you saying Paul is not correct?
No, not at all, Paul was indeed correct. And that is my point.

Paul warned of those of this great house-- those Christians, who were either like gold or silver, or as wood or clay, some for honor and some for dishonor-- Which shares the same Spirit of Jesus' warning of the profitable servant compared to the unprofitable servant. I quoted both.

The point again being, that although both are servants in the same great house, both are not doing honor to God...for which Paul makes this same point as I am now making, that the gospel must be rightly divided-- not lumped together, combining the house of Israel with the other nations. No, God separated them, Jesus brought a sword between them, and Paul says we should rightly divide what is written of them. But, yes, to the credit of all who would like to consider us all One-- we are, but only after rightly divided. Then, in Christ we become One new man. But first the gospel is to be rightly preached to all nations. And rightly preached--it has not been, nor is it even now.
 

Keiw

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No, not at all, Paul was indeed correct. And that is my point.

Paul warned of those of this great house-- those Christians, who were either like gold or silver, or as wood or clay, some for honor and some for dishonor-- Which shares the same Spirit of Jesus' warning of the profitable servant compared to the unprofitable servant. I quoted both.

The point again being, that although both are servants in the same great house, both are not doing honor to God...for which Paul makes this same point as I am now making, that the gospel must be rightly divided-- not lumped together, combining the house of Israel with the other nations. No, God separated them, Jesus brought a sword between them, and Paul says we should rightly divide what is written of them. But, yes, to the credit of all who would like to consider us all One-- we are, but only after rightly divided. Then, in Christ we become One new man. But first the gospel is to be rightly preached to all nations. And rightly preached--it has not been, nor is it even now.



The watchtower ( scriptures in every paragraph backing the truth taught) is in 1000 languages. Worldwide a JW gets the same spiritual feeding week after week--Keeps us united-1Cor 1:10--unity of thought-no division. So yes it is being preached worldwide.
 

ScottA

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The watchtower ( scriptures in every paragraph backing the truth taught) is in 1000 languages. Worldwide a JW gets the same spiritual feeding week after week--Keeps us united-1Cor 1:10--unity of thought-no division. So yes it is being preached worldwide.
If there is no "rightly dividing the word of truth" ("no division") being preached-- it's another gospel, not of Christ.
 

Taken

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So then, state it clearly:

Did Jesus not say that He has brought a "sword" which He warned would cause some to be "cut in two?" And did Paul not say that what Jesus brought should be "divided" or "rightly" "cut" or "handled", because there are those who do not do it and therefore misrepresent the gospel? Is this not a doctrine that they established, but few have embraced, and instead reject?​

Yes!

Rightly dividing IS as BIND and LOOSE.
BIND TO the TRUTH of the Word of God that APPLIES.
Let LOOSE of the TRUTH of the Word of God that DOES NOT APPLY.

JESUS is the Christ the Son of the Living God.....all others “christ’s are False
A SAVED man IS Saved....scripture of the “unsaved”...do not apply.
A Believing man CAN BE Loosed...he is not BOUND IN Salvation.
A QUICKENED man IS Spiritual...he is BOUND forever with God.
A CONVERTED man IS BOUND...he CAN SIN NO MORE.
SIN Applies to a LOOSE man....he is not BOUND to God.

OT men repeatedly SINNED...Repeatedly they gave SIN Offerings, animal blood, for forgiveness.

Jesus gave His BLOOD ONCE and forever for a mans FORGIVENESS of Sin..
A man BOUND with God has Received the Lords Forgiveness.

Jesus gave His BODY ONCE and forever for a man SIN Payment.

How many times must Jesus give His Blood, and Jesus give His Body, BEFORE a man TRUSTS TO BELIEVE...?

* Either a man IS CRUCIFIED with Jesus, or he isn’t...
* Either Jesus’ BLOOD IS sufficient, or it isn’t...
* Either Holy Spirit is IN a man, or it isn’t...

A Converted man IS BOUND WITH the Lord Gods SPIRIT dwelling withIN him.
WHO is WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE, God DOES NOT DWELL IN SIN?

Where are these men that continue to claim they are Baptized with the Holy Spirit, AND continue to SIN........really? Any one really think the Holy Spirit of God IS DWELLING IN YOU while YOU SIN?
 

Cooper

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So then, state it clearly:

Did Jesus not say that He has brought a "sword" which He warned would cause some to be "cut in two?" And did Paul not say that what Jesus brought should be "divided" or "rightly" "cut" or "handled", because there are those who do not do it and therefore misrepresent the gospel? Is this not a doctrine that they established, but few have embraced, and instead reject?​
A Worker Approved by God rightly dividing the word of truth
Paul reminds Timothy to rightly divide the word of truth as a good teacher needs to do, rather than to argue about words to the ruin of the hearers. This happens on here and all forums when people wrongly divide the word of truth by taking it out of context.

(15) Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (16) But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. (17) And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, (18) who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:14-18 (NKJV)

Paul writes of idle babblings, leading to more ungodliness. Their message will spread like cancer, (it has done), straying from the truth. It would be beneficial to pay heed.

(Lights out)
 
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Keiw

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If there is no "rightly dividing the word of truth" ("no division") being preached-- it's another gospel, not of Christ.


There is no division in Gods truth. There is division between the light and the dark.
 

ScottA

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A Worker Approved by God rightly dividing the word of truth
Paul reminds Timothy to rightly divide the word of truth as a good teacher needs to do, rather than to argue about words to the ruin of the hearers. This happens on here and all forums when people wrongly divide the word of truth by taking it out of context.

(15) Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (16) But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. (17) And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, (18) who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:14-18 (NKJV)

Paul writes of idle babblings, leading to more ungodliness. Their message will spread like cancer, (it has done), straying from the truth. It would be beneficial to pay heed.

(Lights out)
Agreed.

However, the issue that has come up, and the common misunderstanding of this passage, is that of the unified narrative that spiritually connects Paul's words of "dishonoring servants" to Jesus' "evil servants." Jesus does not say they lose their salvation but rather will suffer consequences, and Paul says they are of the same "great house." Which means they are not referring to a loss of salvation, or those outside the church-- which makes the context that of handling the gospel...and a specific need to keep it straight.

Straight how?

That is the point that I have been addressing (on more than one thread). It is a major problem that has us doing exactly what Paul told us not to do, which is all the squabbling over scripture. But it is a much bigger issue than that by far. Which would not be obvious without joining both Jesus and Paul in spirit toward all truth, just as Jesus has arranged for our benefit via the Holy Spirit. As Paul advocated, this is our way to "press on."

If not...then, well, one may certainly not press on and remain in partial truth until death, and then wake up to all they otherwise missed during their lifetime in the world. But that is simply not what is prescribed in the scriptures if one has and ear to hear the overarching unified spiritual work of the Holy Spirit regarding the gospel during the church age. And, yes, maybe that is too much for some people...it certainly was for the apostles, at least that is what Jesus told them:

John 16:12
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."​

But us? ...We are not suppose to just hear, but do.
 

ScottA

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There is no division in Gods truth. There is division between the light and the dark.
Now we're getting somewhere!

Yes, just as there is division between death and life-- and that is what we are talking about.

Jesus stands as the Last of those born of the flesh who lived until death before salvation came, and also as the First born of the spirit bringing forth many sons. He is that dividing point between death and life.

As such, Jesus preached to those destine to die before salvation came through His death on the cross, resurrection from the dead, and His ascension, after which He sent forth the Holy Spirit bringing new life to those who would be born [again] of God. But...He only came the first time "for the house of Israel." Nonetheless, the gospels speak of both-- which, therefore, must be rightly divided, which was the counsel of Paul the apostle to the "other fold" that Jesus said He "must bring." These are "the dead" and "the living" "in Christ", and "the last who would be first, and the first last."

So...with no division, there is no passing from death to life in the world, but only in death.
 
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Keiw

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Now we're getting somewhere!

Yes, just as there is division between death and life-- and that is what we are talking about.

Jesus stands as the Last of those born of the flesh who lived until death before salvation came, and also as the First born of the spirit bringing forth many sons. He is that dividing point between death and life.

As such, Jesus preached to those destine to die before salvation came through His death on the cross, resurrection from the dead, and His ascension, after which He sent forth the Holy Spirit bringing new life to those who would be born [again] of God. But...He only came the first time "for the house of Israel." Nonetheless, the gospels speak of both-- which, therefore, must be rightly divided, which was the counsel of Paul the apostle to the "other fold" that Jesus said He "must bring." These are "the dead" and "the living" "in Christ", and "the last who would be first, and the first last."

So...with no division, there is no passing from death to life in the world, but only in death.


They had holy spirit in the Ot as well. Actually the little flock( Luke 12:32) is the bride of Christ=Rev 14:3-144,000 bought from the earth. To rules as kings and priests sitting on thrones.( Rev 1:6--Rev 20:4-6( part of the first ressurection)
The other sheep( John 10:16) who are not of that fold are the great crowd which no man can number. No where are they promised heaven, but receive this promise from Jesus and the psalmist--Matthew 5:5-Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth,, Psalm 37:29-- The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it. These will be brought through Har-mageddon on earth-Matthew 24:22-Proverbs2:21-22 same as Noah was brought through on the earth. Rev 20:7-8 after the thousand years and satan gets loosed for a little while.-Gog of Magog attacks Gods righteous on the earth. They will remain on earth always.
 

Taken

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There is no division in Gods truth.

Eh, not so.

All of Gods Words ARE TRUTHS.
All of Gods Divisions ARE TRUTHS.

Matt 12
[30] He that is not with me is against me...

A man NOT with the Lord...
By default IS Divided IS Against the Lord.

Interesting Division:
that goes beyond WITH or WITHOUT;
to: IS WITH or IS AGAINST.
 

Cooper

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Agreed.

However, the issue that has come up, and the common misunderstanding of this passage, is that of the unified narrative that spiritually connects Paul's words of "dishonoring servants" to Jesus' "evil servants." Jesus does not say they lose their salvation but rather will suffer consequences, and Paul says they are of the same "great house." Which means they are not referring to a loss of salvation, or those outside the church-- which makes the context that of handling the gospel...and a specific need to keep it straight.

Straight how?

That is the point that I have been addressing (on more than one thread). It is a major problem that has us doing exactly what Paul told us not to do, which is all the squabbling over scripture. But it is a much bigger issue than that by far. Which would not be obvious without joining both Jesus and Paul in spirit toward all truth, just as Jesus has arranged for our benefit via the Holy Spirit. As Paul advocated, this is our way to "press on."

If not...then, well, one may certainly not press on and remain in partial truth until death, and then wake up to all they otherwise missed during their lifetime in the world. But that is simply not what is prescribed in the scriptures if one has and ear to hear the overarching unified spiritual work of the Holy Spirit regarding the gospel during the church age. And, yes, maybe that is too much for some people...it certainly was for the apostles, at least that is what Jesus told them:

John 16:12
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now."​

But us? ...We are not suppose to just hear, but do.
Paul in 2 Timothy chapter 2 is writing about false teachers i.e. Hymenaeus and Philetus, but it can be any false teacher.
He proceeds to instruct the Lord's servants (2 Tim 2:24-26) on how to behave towards the false teachers. He tells us not to be quarrelsome or "squabbling" over scripture, to be kind, to teach with patience and to correct opponents with gentleness. Furthermore, he then gives us the reason, it is: "so that they may repent and come to know the truth, and escape from the snare of the devil." Therefore, it is the believer's responsibility to lead the false teachers to the Lord. So yes, there is hope for the false teacher if they repent and turn to the truth, but some are not for turning, and they are best ejected from the church, for fear of leading others astray.
'''''''''''''''''''
So now we turn to true believers (Luke 12:35-48) who are servants in the master's household. They need to be prepared for the Masters' return. Similar to the parable of the ten virgins. Some are more faithful than others, but all are present.

Verses 42 to 48 are set in the here and now, in which Jesus talks of good and bad servants. The good news is that being servants of the Lord, they are therefore heaven bound, but with varying degrees of reward. The implication is that heavenly judgement is not a simple matter of guilty or not guilty, but rather living a life in which we are always prepared, ready and waiting for the master's return, and additionally we will be judged on the criteria below. By our works we are known. (James)

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. (Matthew 25:41-46 KJV)

Our reward or otherwise is not only a simple matter of believing in God, but we are known by our works, so those who live with one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom of God need to be careful.

A final word: Love not the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (1 John 2:15 KJV)

Conclusion: let us be good and faithful servants of the Lord.
.
 
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Keiw

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Eh, not so.

All of Gods Words ARE TRUTHS.
All of Gods Divisions ARE TRUTHS.

Matt 12
[30] He that is not with me is against me...

A man NOT with the Lord...
By default IS Divided IS Against the Lord.

Interesting Division:
that goes beyond WITH or WITHOUT;
to: IS WITH or IS AGAINST.


34,000 religions claiming to be christian= a mass of confusion, division) All claim to have holy spirit. Its not the Holy spirit that caused that confusion, its the dogmas of men that have. The bible speaks of the real Jesus. The Jesus that teaches--He has a God just like us-his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--So why wont those claiming to be his follower believe him?
 

Eternally Grateful

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34,000 religions claiming to be christian= a mass of confusion, division) All claim to have holy spirit. Its not the Holy spirit that caused that confusion, its the dogmas of men that have. The bible speaks of the real Jesus. The Jesus that teaches--He has a God just like us-his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--So why wont those claiming to be his follower believe him?
actually there are but three different truths. all with their own way of doing things. Not 34,000 truths. That is just a roman way of trying to deter from the truth and keep the focus off them

1. Licentiousness - A gospel that teaches we can say a sinners prayer and magically we are saved, No repentance or true faith is needed. and we can live however we want

2. Grace through faith - A gospel that teaches it is through the cross and Christ alone we are saved.

3 Legalism/works - A gospel that states we are saved in the end by some sort of works, The amount and types of works varies with each denomination, bit in the end, they teach we begin in the flesh but must maintain or keep it/perfect it in the flesh

You can pick any denomination you want, and they will all fit into one of these three categories.