"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Keiw]

actually there are but three different truths. all with their own way of doing things. Not 34,000 truths. That is just a roman way of trying to deter from the truth and keep the focus off them

1. Licentiousness - A gospel that teaches we can say a sinners prayer and magically we are saved, No repentance or true faith is needed. and we can live however we want

2. Grace through faith - A gospel that teaches it is through the cross and Christ alone we are saved.

3 Legalism/works - A gospel that states we are saved in the end by some sort of works, The amount and types of works varies with each denomination, bit in the end, they teach we begin in the flesh but must maintain or keep it/perfect it in the flesh

You can pick any denomination you want, and they will all fit into one of these three categories.

I dont know of any who teach works save. Works builds a true living faith that will stand under pressures that come. Without works James said that ones faith is dead, and that kind of faith will fail when pressures come. So works and faith go hand in hand.
Yes #1 is a joke for any to believe it. #2 is taken out of context and those believe they are automatically covered as well. But Jesus taught truth--Few will find the road.
true repentance = Acts 3:19--turning around-means stopping doing the sin. Without that kind of repentance one is not covered by Jesus sacrifice. Hebrews 10:26

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I dont know of any who teach works save.

Stick around. Many people here teaches that works saved. They deny it. but they teach it

Works builds a true living faith that will stand under pressures that come. Without works James said that ones faith is dead, and that kind of faith will fail when pressures come. So works and faith go hand in hand.

James is talking to people who have a claimed faith only. Not people who had true faith. And he asked if it can save a person. the answer is no.

James was actually calling out group number 1 or the licentious group.

Yes #1 is a joke for any to believe it. #2 is taken out of context and those believe they are automatically covered as well. But Jesus taught truth--Few will find the road.
true repentance = Acts 3:19--turning around-means stopping doing the sin. Without that kind of repentance one is not covered by Jesus sacrifice. Hebrews 10:26

Actually number 2 is the narrow gate and few there are who pass through it

And number 1 and number 3 are jokes. Both based on pride. both in effect say they do not have to truly repent or have true saving faith. The difference is usually seen as the 1 says we can sin all we want and the other focuses on certain sins, while ignoring their own sins.

1 says I have called out to God so I am good

the other says I do all these works so I am good (as long as I continue to do these works)

They are easy to call out. I have not determined what you believe yet. I will be open.

 

[Keiw]

Stick around. Many people here teaches that works saved. They deny it. but they teach it


James is talking to people who have a claimed faith only. Not people who had true faith. And he asked if it can save a person. the answer is no.

James was actually calling out group number 1 or the licentious group.



Actually number 2 is the narrow gate and few there are who pass through it

And number 1 and number 3 are jokes. Both based on pride. both in effect say they do not have to truly repent or have true saving faith. The difference is usually seen as the 1 says we can sin all we want and the other focuses on certain sins, while ignoring their own sins.

1 says I have called out to God so I am good

the other says I do all these works so I am good (as long as I continue to do these works)

They are easy to call out. I have not determined what you believe yet. I will be open.

I believe this is the narrow gate--Matthew 7:21--Those living now to do Jesus Fathers will get to enter the kingdom. And as well one must do that until their end-Matt 10:22-- Matt 24:13.

 

[Taken]

34,000 religions claiming to be christian= a mass of confusion, division) All claim to have holy spirit. Its not the Holy spirit that caused that confusion, its the dogmas of men that have. The bible speaks of the real Jesus. The Jesus that teaches--He has a God just like us-his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--So why wont those claiming to be his follower believe him?

You appear confused.
A religion has a core BELIEF.
The Core Belief Of Christianity IS:
~Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God

Christian Denominations- are sub-groups;
With their own;
*Common Name,
*Traditions,
*Identity

It is not confusing if you understand the difference between a religion a denomination.

Early teaching of what we call Christianity:
Was in...
A field, a boat, a garden, a street, homes, a court yard, a Temple, a synagogue, town meeting halls, schools, a building established as a Church.

Early meeting places ^^^ in Scripture calls several of such places, A Church, identified by the name of the City.

The same method continues. Cities grow, more churches established, specific Common names for multiple churches.

What is your complaint?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe this is the narrow gate--Matthew 7:21--Those living now to do Jesus Fathers will get to enter the kingdom. And as well one must do that until their end-Matt 10:22-- Matt 24:13.

Ahh,

so now I think it is clear. You fall under number three. It is based on how good we are and our works and enduring under our power that we are saved.

Not the power of God to save us.

Matt 7 is descriptive, not prescriptive.

actually most major religions on the earth believe as you do. It is our obedience and how good we are that determines our eternal destination

Let me give you Gods standard of how good is good enough.

1. For all have sinned and fall short of that standard (romans 3) - No one has met that standard
2. According to the law. whoever does not obey every word is cursed (again perfection is the standard) James goes as far as to say if we even stumble into one sin, we are guilty

so you see, Gods standard is perfection. No one is good but God (using Jesus own words) so why would you think that yourself or anyone else can be good enough to earn salvation?

why would you try to maintain your own salvation. When God says it is him who keep you??

 

[Keiw]

You appear confused.
A religion has a core BELIEF.
The Core Belief Of Christianity IS:
~Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God

Christian Denominations- are sub-groups;
With their own;
*Common Name,
*Traditions,
*Identity

It is not confusing if you understand the difference between a religion a denomination.

Early teaching of what we call Christianity:
Was in...
A field, a boat, a garden, a street, homes, a court yard, a Temple, a synagogue, town meeting halls, schools, a building established as a Church.

Early meeting places ^^^ in Scripture calls several of such places, A Church, identified by the name of the City.

The same method continues. Cities grow, more churches established, specific Common names for multiple churches.

What is your complaint?

Actually the Greek word translated-congregation.
1Cor 1:10--Unity of thought( all matters of Gods truth) no division. Gods will to be worshipped in spirit and truth( John 4:22-24) There is 1 truth.

 

[Taken]

I dont know of any who teach works save.

Several on this forum Teach Works Save.

Works do not Save.
Salvation Saves.
Salvation IS Jesus.

Luke19:
[1]And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
[2] And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
[3] And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
[4] And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
[5] And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
[6] And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
[7] And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
[8] And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
[9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

God sent the Gift of Gods Salvation to Earth. Any man can freely and heartfully receive the Gift God Sent.

Any man who freely and heartfully receives Gods Gift of Salvation...Becomes Saved Unto The Lord God....By, Through, Of the Lord Gods’ Works.

A man does Not Do Works to become Saved.
A man does A Service Unto God to receive The Offered Gift of Salvation.

What is a mans Service?
Opening his own mouth:
confessing Heartful Belief, That: Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
Asking for Forgiveness, For having HAD not believed.
Agreeing to lay down his own life, crucified with Jesus.

This man has Completed his Reasonable Service Unto The Lord God, to receive Gods Gift of Salvation, which means that man Has been Delivered from eternal death and Separation From the Lord God Almighty.

Rom 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Now this man is prepared to DO Works that Glorify God.

Works this man does...that Glorifies God, Shall Be rewarded by God.
Works this man does...that does not Glorify God, Shall be burned.
Works Do NOT Save. Works Do NOT affect Salvation. Words affect Rewards.

1 Cor 3:
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Glory to God.
Taken

 

[Taken]

Actually the Greek word translated-congregation.
1Cor 1:10--Unity of thought( all matters of Gods truth) no division. Gods will to be worshipped in spirit and truth( John 4:22-24) There is 1 truth.

And? Who is saying there “IS” a division of thought in any Church identified as holding the Core Belief of Christianity?
Already said: the Core belief of a Church identifying with the Christianity Religion; IS:
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Are you saying there ARE thousands of churches “claiming to be Adherents of the Core Belief of Christianity”.......but in fact DO NOT hold that as their Core Belief?

 

[Keiw]

Several on this forum Teach Works Save.

Works do not Save.
Salvation Saves.
Salvation IS Jesus.

Luke19:
[1]And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
[2] And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
[3] And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
[4] And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
[5] And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
[6] And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
[7] And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
[8] And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
[9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

God sent the Gift of Gods Salvation to Earth. Any man can freely and heartfully receive the Gift God Sent.

Any man who freely and heartfully receives Gods Gift of Salvation...Becomes Saved Unto The Lord God....By, Through, Of the Lord Gods’ Works.

A man does Not Do Works to become Saved.
A man does A Service Unto God to receive The Offered Gift of Salvation.

What is a mans Service?
Opening his own mouth:
confessing Heartful Belief, That: Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
Asking for Forgiveness, For having HAD not believed.
Agreeing to lay down his own life, crucified with Jesus.

This man has Completed his Reasonable Service Unto The Lord God, to receive Gods Gift of Salvation, which means that man Has been Delivered from eternal death and Separation From the Lord God Almighty.

Rom 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Now this man is prepared to DO Works that Glorify God.

Works this man does...that Glorifies God, Shall Be rewarded by God.
Works this man does...that does not Glorify God, Shall be burned.
Works Do NOT Save. Works Do NOT affect Salvation. Words affect Rewards.

1 Cor 3:
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Glory to God.
Taken

Those who listen to Jesusand obey him are the ones revealed by fire. He said it would be FEW.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Those who listen to Jesusand obey him are the ones revealed by fire. He said it would be FEW.

what is the standard? WHo is considered good. vs considered bad? Where is the breaking point?

 

[Keiw]

And? Who is saying there “IS” a division of thought in any Church identified as holding the Core Belief of Christianity?
Already said: the Core belief of a Church identifying with the Christianity Religion; IS:
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Are you saying there ARE thousands of churches “claiming to be Adherents of the Core Belief of Christianity”.......but in fact DO NOT hold that as their Core Belief?

The NT speaks about 10 x about one coming to an accurate knowledge. Not a core belief, but ALL of Gods truth.

 

[Keiw]

what is the standard? WHo is considered good. vs considered bad? Where is the breaking point?

A single from Jesus summed it up--Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from GOD--Takes years of studying the bible-OT-NT And they must be taught by the teachers Jesus has appointed because much of it cannot be understood.
John 14:15-24--Obeying Jesus is proof of ones love for him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A single from Jesus summed it up--Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from GOD--Takes years of studying the bible-OT-NT And they must be taught by the teachers Jesus has appointed because much of it cannot be understood.
John 14:15-24--Obeying Jesus is proof of ones love for him.

You did not summon anything up.

Obeying Jesus, what is the standard? what determines a person is obeying vs a person who is not obeying?

 

[Keiw]

You did not summon anything up.

Obeying Jesus, what is the standard? what determines a person is obeying vs a person who is not obeying?

By learning and applying Every utterance from God. Jesus didnt say if you want to. there is no choice in the matter. Jesus meant every word he said. And thats his Fathers will, And at Matt 7:21--Jesus assures--those living now to do his Fathers will, get to enter his kingdom( be saved)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

By learning and applying Every utterance from God. Jesus didnt say if you want to. there is no choice in the matter. Jesus meant every word he said. And thats his Fathers will, And at Matt 7:21--Jesus assures--those living now to do his Fathers will, get to enter his kingdom( be saved)

you keep sidestepping the question my friend

HOW good is good enough.

How can I, as a believer, know if I am obedient enough to enter heaven, or have fallen enough that I lost my place in heaven?

 

[ScottA]

They had holy spirit in the Ot as well. Actually the little flock( Luke 12:32) is the bride of Christ=Rev 14:3-144,000 bought from the earth. To rules as kings and priests sitting on thrones.( Rev 1:6--Rev 20:4-6( part of the first ressurection)
The other sheep( John 10:16) who are not of that fold are the great crowd which no man can number. No where are they promised heaven, but receive this promise from Jesus and the psalmist--Matthew 5:5-Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth,, Psalm 37:29-- The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it. These will be brought through Har-mageddon on earth-Matthew 24:22-Proverbs2:21-22 same as Noah was brought through on the earth. Rev 20:7-8 after the thousand years and satan gets loosed for a little while.-Gog of Magog attacks Gods righteous on the earth. They will remain on earth always.

Those are the teachings of men. Sorry, but you have been deceived.

First, the Holy Spirit, is God, and therefore has always been-- which has nothing to do with the OT or the New. If you will read again any reference to the Spirit of God in the OT, you will see that He "came upon". "moved", "empowered", and "inspired", etc., men of old, even including some ungodly. But only after the cross and the ascension of Jesus was salvation paid for and available. Nor did the Holy Spirit "enter in" any that they should become One with God, which is salvation, nor did men. To say differently, is to say that Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension unto the Father was unnecessary, robbing Him of His glory. It's anti-Christ.

That should be enough to stop anyone wanting approval from God, and from continuing in such teachings. But I will continue:

As for the little flock being the bride, kings and priests, and the first resurrection...that is backwards, as Jesus said "the first shall be last, and the last first."

As for the "other sheep Christ must also bring"... how is it that you do not see that if He must "also bring" them-- that He brings them (also), just as He said, "that where I am you may be also?" If it were not true, He would not "bring" them...as it is written.

As for the meek not entering heaven, but inheriting the earth, that is so scripturally wrong it is hard to know where to begin. Scripturally, the present earth is to be completely destroyed "by fervent heat and with fire." The "New Earth" where the meek shall dwell, is not apart from God-- not outside heaven, but is the place of "many mansions" and the "New Jerusalem."

As for your end time comments-- you are not even ready to discuss it.

 

[Taken]

The NT speaks about 10 x about one coming to an accurate knowledge. Not a core belief, but ALL of Gods truth.

No.
The Core Foundational Belief of Christianity IS:
“Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God”.
It is precisely what Jesus’ Church IS build upon.

Without the Core Foundational Belief, it is NOT the Christian Religion.
From there, are Scriptural Principles and Standards that teach individuals how to implement those Principles and Standards pleasing to God.

It is the Principles and Standards, that includes Gods Order, Gods Way, Gods Truth, Gods Commands, Gods Divisions, Gods Applications, Gods Promises, etc.

 

[Keiw]

you keep sidestepping the question my friend

HOW good is good enough.

How can I, as a believer, know if I am obedient enough to enter heaven, or have fallen enough that I lost my place in heaven?

Only 144,000 are bought from the earth-Rev 14:3= the little flock( Luke 12:32) No where is the great crowd promised heaven. Obey Jesus is what it takes. Studying him and what he actually teaches. Learning and applying.

 

[Keiw]

Those are the teachings of men. Sorry, but you have been deceived.

First, the Holy Spirit, is God, and therefore has always been-- which has nothing to do with the OT or the New. If you will read again any reference to the Spirit of God in the OT, you will see that He "came upon". "moved", "empowered", and "inspired", etc., men of old, even including some ungodly. But only after the cross and the ascension of Jesus was salvation paid for and available. Nor did the Holy Spirit "enter in" any that they should become One with God, which is salvation, nor did men. To say differently, is to say that Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension unto the Father was unnecessary, robbing Him of His glory. It's anti-Christ.

That should be enough to stop anyone wanting approval from God, and from continuing in such teachings. But I will continue:

As for the little flock being the bride, kings and priests, and the first resurrection...that is backwards, as Jesus said "the first shall be last, and the last first."

As for the "other sheep Christ must also bring"... how is it that you do not see that if He must "also bring" them-- that He brings them (also), just as He said, "that where I am you may be also?" If it were not true, He would not "bring" them...as it is written.

As for the meek not entering heaven, but inheriting the earth, that is so scripturally wrong it is hard to know where to begin. Scripturally, the present earth is to be completely destroyed "by fervent heat and with fire." The "New Earth" where the meek shall dwell, is not apart from God-- not outside heaven, but is the place of "many mansions" and the "New Jerusalem."

As for your end time comments-- you are not even ready to discuss it.

Fact--Every living being has a personal name-Holy spirit-0
God shares things with Jesus--Holy spirit-0
Holy spirit never seen on a throne.
Many important passages in the NT has God and Jesus always seperate-Holy spirit- 0( like John 17:3--One has to know the Father and know Jesus to get eternal life) holy spirit-0
There is a single teaching about the holy spirit--God asked a question, he sent the holy spirit as a go between, It was God seeking the answer, that is how that one lied to God. Twisting it like your religions do in a single spot out of the whole bible.

The new catholic encyclopedia 1967--vol XIII page 575-- the majority of NT texts reveals Gods spirit as something not someone this is especially seen in the parellism between the spirit and the power of God. the Apologists ( greek christian writers of the 2nd century) spoke to haltingly of the spirit with a measure of anticipation, one might say to impersonally.

Jesus will bring the other sheep into Gods kingdom, on earth. No where are they promised heaven. At that point in time, no matter where one stands, Earth, the moon, or heaven they will be standing before the throne( the only ruling power left in existence)

 

[Keiw]

No.
The Core Foundational Belief of Christianity IS:
“Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God”.
It is precisely what Jesus’ Church IS build upon.

Without the Core Foundational Belief, it is NOT the Christian Religion.
From there, are Scriptural Principles and Standards that teach individuals how to implement those Principles and Standards pleasing to God.

It is the Principles and Standards, that includes Gods Order, Gods Way, Gods Truth, Gods Commands, Gods Divisions, Gods Applications, Gods Promises, etc.

Yes the son of the living God(Father) a son is never his Father, Jesus is his image.