Salvation/Sin/Death/Hell/Satan-Demons

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Do you consider the Revelation to be Hebrew Apocalyptic genre?

That's kinda a loaded question depending on how deep you get in the subject.

I believe Revelation to be written cryptically deliberately by John to hide its true meaning from the Roman contemporaries of the day and acknowledge the possibility that the Holy Spirit has even "sealed" ( hidden really) the true meaning until those who actually have to deal with it get 'ears to hear and eyes to see".

That's why i compare each thing in revelation with other Scripture for an aggregate reading and don't take anything it it literally or at face value.

That said, I have multiple theories on meanings of various parts of revelation and constantly updating them ( like a permanent state of study and continuous evaluation)

 

[marks]

I don't believe He would've made billions of people, knowing that so many would suffer eternally. He's better than that!

His ways are way beyond our understanding. There are considerations behind things that I think we can't even begin to guess at.

I'm not going to be one who reads the Bible, and reads a certain thing, and then say to myself, No, I know better than that!

In all honesty I don't like the idea that unbelievers will suffer forever, but I find fault in myself, not God or the Bible.

Remember. Humanity is dead already. Humanity, Man, the First Man, died, the day Man ate from that tree.

The Man God created died. A walking corpse has been populating the planet ever since. You MUST BE born again to enter the kingdom of God. And you can only be born again being immersed into Christ.

If you died while dead, you will die the second death. The first death is not our physical death, I don't think. That's just the the expiration of the corpse. Man died that day in the garden. Physical death is in a way just that death playing itself out. And being tossed into the like of fire is the second death.

Much love!

 

[Truman]

His ways are way beyond our understanding. There are considerations behind things that I think we can't even begin to guess at.

I'm not going to be one who reads the Bible, and reads a certain thing, and then say to myself, No, I know better than that!

In all honesty I don't like the idea that unbelievers will suffer forever, but I find fault in myself, not God or the Bible.

Remember. Humanity is dead already. Humanity, Man, the First Man, died, the day Man ate from that tree.

The Man God created died. A walking corpse has been populating the planet ever since. You MUST BE born again to enter the kingdom of God. And you can only be born again being immersed into Christ.

If you died while dead, you will die the second death. The first death is not our physical death, I don't think. That's just the the expiration of the corpse. Man died that day in the garden. Physical death is in a way just that death playing itself out. And being tossed into the like of fire is the second death.

Much love!

The day He taught me otherwise, I believed that some would suffer forever. I wasn't looking for it. I was reading and at one point, saw something differently and was inspired to pursue a certain "thread?"

 

[Truman]

It's what He says it is. I spent many years arguing with my Maker. I don't want to do that anymore.

 

[Wynona]

@MatthewG

Do you really believe Jesus died for unbelievers sin? Do you have Scripture to support this?

Do you believe that everyone is going to heaven regardless of whether they believe and recieve Jesus as Lord and Saviour?

If so, what Scripture supports that?

 

[farouk]

@MatthewG

Do you really believe Jesus died for unbelievers sin? Do you have Scripture to support this?

Do you believe that everyone is going to heaven regardless of whether they believe and recieve Jesus as Lord and Saviour?

If so, what Scripture supports that?

@Wynona Romans 8 is a great description of God's salvation accomplished and applied to the believer.

 

[MatthewG]

There is plenty of scripture.

What is you think is going to happen to the unbeliever?

Is God angry and mad at them?

Is God going to destroy them even though God created them, and they chose not believe?

What is perception of the afterlife?

Is it just you and your own envisioned way that Heaven is going to be like?

If you desire to know more of what heaven looks like (which I believe there are two parts).
A place that is in the Kingdom.
A place that is outside of the Kingdom.

Let me put it to you this way, imagine if Jesus Christ never came and you were born with your sin not paid for… thankfully Jesus Christ blood paid for sin once and for all people… past, present, and future.

Not sure how many more times am going to have to explain this. Those without faith aren’t going into the heavenly Jerusalem until they are ready to turn to God. They are in the darkness. Those who were believers after this life go into the heavenly Jerusalem.

What do you believe, if you don’t believe the same thing that is mentioned here?

Do you believe souls are destroyed?
Do you believe souls sleep?
Do you believe you are in the last days now?
Do you believe Jesus is still coming back or do you believe he is with you now?
Do you believe all the revelation has happened?
Do you believe hell gave up its dead from the people from Noah’s Age to up to when Jesus died and went and proclaimed a message to the souls on hell both Paradise and Prison.
Do you believe that Satan and his angels are still here roaming the earth?
Do you believe you have a responsibility to help protect others from what opinion someone may have over the bible?
Are you a part of the bride of Christ from back in that age?
Do you believe that Jesus death was only for certain people?
Do you believe you where someone predestined, or elected?

Just curious about all of your own thoughts because to me Jesus has had the victory over everything from the world, to sin, to hell, to the grave, and over Satan and his demons.

I also believe people all people end up in a heavenly realm there is two sections one for people with no faith and a section for those with faith.

All biblical by the looks of Revelation 22 and it has been made known to me the Bible is completed. Though am not forcing you to believe it, I may be wrong about it but I choose that Jesus has already came back and He has had the victory. It’s just up to people if they accept that great news or not.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

What is you think is going to happen to the unbeliever?

He's going to burn

Is God angry and mad at them?

Abomination is the word

Not sure how many more times am going to have to explain this. Those without faith aren’t going into the heavenly Jerusalem until they are ready to turn to God. They are in the darkness. Those who were believers after this life go into the heavenly Jerusalem.

Your "explanation" is wrong and goes against everything Scripture teaches.

I also believe people all people end up in a heavenly realm there is two sections one for people with no faith and a section for those with faith.

You can "believe" in the Easter bunny but it doesn't make it real.

 

[MatthewG]

Some people will never believe what has been made known to me. To each their own. If they do burn it must because of Gods love and they only take a ‘part’ in when and if they decide to change their mind to repent towards God.

I’ll tell you this God already knows my heart on the situation to worry about anyone trying to correct my view is futile.

No judgment for believing how you do; thankfully God loves us all equally and not one above the other ~ especially when it comes to overlooking theological stand points held by the individual.

Everything explained here in the last post 67 is what I believe personally and God knows that is what I believe personally.

If you disagree no judgment here. Hope you all take care and have a good day.

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you, love of God, and fellowship of the Holy Spirit.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Some people will never believe what has been made known to me.

"Who" and how was this "made known" to you?

I’ll tell you this God already knows my heart on the situation to worry about anyone trying to correct my view is futile.

You overrate yourself- its not about correcting you- its preventing your "doctrines of demons" from influencing weaker sheep and leading them astray.

 

[MatthewG]

No time for listening and other people’s judgments.

You may believe anything you desire sir when it comes to that Bible. You can make it say all kinds of things. Many people believe all types of things about all the different subjects. So having differing views, or beliefs when it comes to looking at the Bible is not uncommon.

From free will to predestined and elected, foreknowledge, to was Jesus death really enough to pay for all people’s sins? Does God really love everyone? Has God stopped being angry at sin, because of the death of Jesus? Is God going to burn people alive? Will satan torture those in hell forever? Is the wrath of God abiding on you? What about people who died never knowing God and Jesus? Hell forever? What about little billy who died falling of the tree? Didn’t God create little billy? Little billy didn’t believe is billy sent to hell forever burning alive forever in the flesh?

What ever you desire the Bible to say can all be conjecture or looked at scripturally.

However you decide to do that is up to you.

People who showed me about preterism. However it is called though people may not believe that way; my belief is all of it completed.

So not completely alone is suggesting everything has been done. God and Jesus in what they had done was sufficient enough to allow all people to have a choice to believe and look towards God and Jesus that they may have freedom in this life helped by the Holy Spirit/spirit in Christ that God gives us to live by in this life to have love for God first and to have love for other people.

Living by the spirit by walking in faith in trusting the Victory of Christ in who gives us a new way of looking at things when it comes to living in this life and knowing that God is there with you.

That the spirit of Christ is there with you and you are loved and cherished by God and he does really desire for others to comes to Him as well but people make choice and some decide to reject; and are not healed spiritually because of that reason.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

You may believe anything you desire sir when it comes to that Bible. You can make it say all kinds of things. Many people believe all types of things about all the different subjects. So having differing views, or beliefs when it comes to looking at the Bible is not uncommon.

You hide behind your own deeds and always evade direct questions which is an indicator that you are aware of your deception and its deliberate.

 

[MatthewG]

Whatever you desire to believe sir. Am okay here. Hope you are too, friend in Christ. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Whatever you desire to believe sir. Am okay here. Hope you are too, friend in Christ. Enjoy the rest of your day.

You hide behind that word to try and justify your falsehoods yet you never produce anything to substantiate the claims you make that you claim are from Scripture.

Reminds me of a story about a serpent and a fruit

 

[Addy]

Reminds me of a story about a serpent and a fruit

I'm still trying to recover from the discovery that you do not seem to believe in the Easter Bunny.

 

[Wynona]

There is plenty of scripture.

What is you think is going to happen to the unbeliever?

Is God angry and mad at them?

Is God going to destroy them even though God created them, and they chose not believe?

What is perception of the afterlife?

Is it just you and your own envisioned way that Heaven is going to be like?

If you desire to know more of what heaven looks like (which I believe there are two parts).
A place that is in the Kingdom.
A place that is outside of the Kingdom.

Let me put it to you this way, imagine if Jesus Christ never came and you were born with your sin not paid for… thankfully Jesus Christ blood paid for sin once and for all people… past, present, and future.

Not sure how many more times am going to have to explain this. Those without faith aren’t going into the heavenly Jerusalem until they are ready to turn to God. They are in the darkness. Those who were believers after this life go into the heavenly Jerusalem.

What do you believe, if you don’t believe the same thing that is mentioned here?

Do you believe souls are destroyed?
Do you believe souls sleep?
Do you believe you are in the last days now?
Do you believe Jesus is still coming back or do you believe he is with you now?
Do you believe all the revelation has happened?
Do you believe hell gave up its dead from the people from Noah’s Age to up to when Jesus died and went and proclaimed a message to the souls on hell both Paradise and Prison.
Do you believe that Satan and his angels are still here roaming the earth?
Do you believe you have a responsibility to help protect others from what opinion someone may have over the bible?
Are you a part of the bride of Christ from back in that age?
Do you believe that Jesus death was only for certain people?
Do you believe you where someone predestined, or elected?

Just curious about all of your own thoughts because to me Jesus has had the victory over everything from the world, to sin, to hell, to the grave, and over Satan and his demons.

I also believe people all people end up in a heavenly realm there is two sections one for people with no faith and a section for those with faith.

All biblical by the looks of Revelation 22 and it has been made known to me the Bible is completed. Though am not forcing you to believe it, I may be wrong about it but I choose that Jesus has already came back and He has had the victory. It’s just up to people if they accept that great news or not.

If there is plenty of Scripture, Id like to see them.

Im not seeing how Revelation 22 is saying heaven is filled with unbelievers.

Jesus did speak and warn about hell quite a bit. He said the path to eternal life is narrow

Matthew 7:13-14
King James Version

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



How can this be a saying of Jesus if everyone finds the path to eternal life?

 

[Wynona]

There is plenty of scripture.

What is you think is going to happen to the unbeliever?

Is God angry and mad at them?

Is God going to destroy them even though God created them, and they chose not believe?

What is perception of the afterlife?

Is it just you and your own envisioned way that Heaven is going to be like?

If you desire to know more of what heaven looks like (which I believe there are two parts).
A place that is in the Kingdom.
A place that is outside of the Kingdom.

Let me put it to you this way, imagine if Jesus Christ never came and you were born with your sin not paid for… thankfully Jesus Christ blood paid for sin once and for all people… past, present, and future.

Not sure how many more times am going to have to explain this. Those without faith aren’t going into the heavenly Jerusalem until they are ready to turn to God. They are in the darkness. Those who were believers after this life go into the heavenly Jerusalem.

What do you believe, if you don’t believe the same thing that is mentioned here?

Do you believe souls are destroyed?
Do you believe souls sleep?
Do you believe you are in the last days now?
Do you believe Jesus is still coming back or do you believe he is with you now?
Do you believe all the revelation has happened?
Do you believe hell gave up its dead from the people from Noah’s Age to up to when Jesus died and went and proclaimed a message to the souls on hell both Paradise and Prison.
Do you believe that Satan and his angels are still here roaming the earth?
Do you believe you have a responsibility to help protect others from what opinion someone may have over the bible?
Are you a part of the bride of Christ from back in that age?
Do you believe that Jesus death was only for certain people?
Do you believe you where someone predestined, or elected?

Just curious about all of your own thoughts because to me Jesus has had the victory over everything from the world, to sin, to hell, to the grave, and over Satan and his demons.

I also believe people all people end up in a heavenly realm there is two sections one for people with no faith and a section for those with faith.

All biblical by the looks of Revelation 22 and it has been made known to me the Bible is completed. Though am not forcing you to believe it, I may be wrong about it but I choose that Jesus has already came back and He has had the victory. It’s just up to people if they accept that great news or not.

You asked a lot of questions but I want to try to address the heart of your post.

We agree that God is good, right? But if He is good He cannot tolerate evil and push it under the rug.

Psalm 7:11
King James Version

11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.


So that answers your question about whether God is angry.

Does He have a right to be? Yes. We had everything in the garden of Eden and chose disobedience which brought a curse on humanity.

See, none of us are innocent. None of us are good. We each go after sin.

But God gave us His Son as reconciliation. But we have to believe.
John 3:18
King James Version

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


I don't know how you feel about Scriptures posted but can we talk?

God really is a good God. But He has the authority to destroy His creation if it displeases Him much like if I build a sandcastle and destroy it later.

God has the right to demand perfect Holiness from His creation. But we couldn't do it on our own, hence Jesus is the Holy One sacrificed on our behalf.

No belief? No sacrifice? No Perfect Holiness.

Why would people need to hear the gospel if believing it wasn't important to their eternal salvation?

 

[MatthewG]

bump.

 

[amigo de christo]

If there is plenty of Scripture, Id like to see them.

Im not seeing how Revelation 22 is saying heaven is filled with unbelievers.

Jesus did speak and warn about hell quite a bit. He said the path to eternal life is narrow

Matthew 7:13-14
King James Version

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



How can this be a saying of Jesus if everyone finds the path to eternal life?

IT AINT , this man is filled with that all inclusive stuff . He may as well be seated at the right hand of pope francis .
THIS is the delusion i have been warning against .
SEE , this generation has turned the love of GOD into a lie . THE LOVE OF GOD
states clearly that GOD so LOVED the world that HE sent HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
that all who do , BELEIVE , BELIEVE , BELIEVE would be saved
and JESUS then goes on to say ALL who believe not will be damned .
BUT the all inclusive lie says , GOD so loved the WORLD that HE SENT JESUS
so that all who even DENY HIM will be saved . THAT my dear sister , COMETH FROM SATAN and IS NOT THE LOVE OF GOD .
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD , POINTS FOLKS TO JESUS SO THEY CAN BE SAVED , the LOVE OF GOD DONT point to a love
which allows folks to perish .in unbelief

 

[ChristisGod]

IT AINT , this man is filled with that all inclusive stuff . He may as well be seated at the right hand of pope francis .
THIS is the delusion i have been warning against .
SEE , this generation has turned the love of GOD into a lie . THE LOVE OF GOD
states clearly that GOD so LOVED the world that HE sent HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
that all who do , BELEIVE , BELIEVE , BELIEVE would be saved
and JESUS then goes on to say ALL who believe not will be damned .
BUT the all inclusive lie says , GOD so loved the WORLD that HE SENT JESUS
so that all who even DENY HIM will be saved . THAT my dear sister , COMETH FROM SATAN and IS NOT THE LOVE OF GOD .
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD , POINTS FOLKS TO JESUS SO THEY CAN BE SAVED , the LOVE OF GOD DONT point to a love
which allows folks to perish .in unbelief

Ditto