Sanctified by the BLOOD

[justbyfaith]

The Word of God makes it clear that we, as converted, born-again believers must cooperate with God's grace. This is why Paul uses the term "sunergos"/co-workers with God (1 Cor. 3:9, 2 Cor. 6:1).

The verses in question (1 Corinthians 3:9, 2 Corinthians 6:1), in context, do not speak of us cooperating with God's grace for our own salvation...but they speak of cooperating with God in order to bring about the salvation of others.

We ARE eternally secure as we cooperate with His saving grace.

Of course, if we are truly justified, we have been born again....and thus have been given a new nature that is inclined towards cooperating with the grace of God, concerning sanctification.

However, clearly, because to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:5)...because we are justified as ungodly people...our justification is not dependent therefore on our performance or cooperation...but only on faith.

This doesn't mean that we save ourselves. God's love is unconditional - but salvation is NOT.

Yes, I would agree, that there is one condition placed on our salvation...faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 5:2).

Jesus assures us that NOBODY can pluck us out of His hand (John 10:28) - and this is a fact. You CAN, however, leave by your OWN will - and Scripture warns us of this over and over

Yes, and most certainly those who leave by their own will are those who do not have the fear of the LORD in them.

But if anyone does have the fear of the LORD, they cannot walk away.

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

They shall not depart from God because of His fear in their hearts; which is a for ever fear according to this scripture.

 

[Behold]

We have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, Galatians 3:22, Romans 3:23); this is a fact of holy scripture.

I dont have "indwelling sin".
I have "indwelling Christ".
So, 4U to continue to obsess on misunderstanding 1 Jn 1, is not going that reality.
You can post 1 Jn 1 till you stop breathing, and i still wont have "in dwelling sin" and neither does that Apostle.
Believe it.

 

[Behold]

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process –.

Salvation is NOT a "lifelong" process.
Salvation is the Blood Atonement, that was created by the "finished work of Jesus on the Cross" that is offered as : John 3:16 And when a person receives this offer they are BORN AGAIN, and that means they have received "the gift of Salvation".
Salvation is not a "process", its a GIFT.

Discipleship, is a process.
Growing in Grace is a process.
Salvation is to be BORN AGAIN, and that is not a "process".

 

[justbyfaith]

I dont have "indwelling sin".
I have "indwelling Christ".
So, 4U to continue to obsess on misunderstanding 1 Jn 1, is not going that reality.
You can post 1 Jn 1 till you stop breathing, and i still wont have "in dwelling sin" and neither does that Apostle.
Believe it.

I will continue to post 1 John 1:8 in response to your posts until the day comes that you or I stop breathing and are standing before the Lord; and you are found by Him to have deceived yourself and others because the truth is not in you.

Fact of the matter is, you have indwelling sin; in denying this you have the indwelling sin of self-deception; if nothing else.

As long as you say that you have no sin, you are in denial at the very least of Ephesians 2:8-9...

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The verses in question (1 Corinthians 3:9, 2 Corinthians 6:1), in context, do not speak of us cooperating with God's grace for our own salvation...but they speak of cooperating with God in order to bring about the salvation of others.

Of course, if we are truly justified, we have been born again....and thus have been given a new nature that is inclined towards cooperating with the grace of God, concerning sanctification.

However, clearly, because to him that worketh not but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:5)...because we are justified as ungodly people...our justification is not dependent therefore on our performance or cooperation...but only on faith.

Yes, I would agree, that there is one condition placed on our salvation...faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 5:2).

And there you go.

If salvation is a gift that cannot be returned – why would God need us to be “co-workers” with Him to bring about the salvation of others?? Are YOU saying that other people brought about YOUR salvation and NOT God alone.

You and I have been down this road DOZENS of times and you refuse to listen to my explanation, so going any further is fruitless. I have given you the Catholic position on works – that they are not OUR works and that they were prepared FOR us BY God to do (Eph. 2:10. And that we cannot take credit for them.

You always come back with the same conclusion: “Catholics believe in a ‘works salvation’.”

This is a complete misrepresentation of what I just explained above.

Yes, and most certainly those who leave by their own will are those who do not have the fear of the LORD in them.

But if anyone does have the fear of the LORD, they cannot walk away.

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

They shall not depart from God because of His fear in their hearts; which is a for ever fear according to this scripture.

WRONG.

As I already showed you – the Bible does NOT teach that we can’t walk away and lose our security when you read it in CONTEXT with the rest of Scripture - instead of cherry-picking like you have done (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Salvation is NOT a "lifelong" process.
Salvation is the Blood Atonement, that was created by the "finished work of Jesus on the Cross" that is offered as : John 3:16 And when a person receives this offer they are BORN AGAIN, and that means they have received "the gift of Salvation".
Salvation is not a "process", its a GIFT.

Discipleship, is a process.
Growing in Grace is a process.
Salvation is to be BORN AGAIN, and that is not a "process".

WRONG.
Salvation IS a process and NOT a slam dunk one-time event – as I showed you from Scripture.

This doesn’t mean that JESUS needs to do anything else. It means that WE need to conform to HIS will and the will of the Father. HIS work is done – but unless we cooperate with that work – we cannot HOPE to be saved. This is why we read about enduring to the end in faith (Matt. 10:22, 24:13). This is the whole point about the parable of the Vine and Branches (John 15:1-17).

You can cherry-pick verses ALL day long to fit your man-made 16th century inventions – but the CONTEXT of Scripture shows that you can LOSE your security (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

 

[Waiting on him]

WRONG.
Salvation IS a process and NOT a slam dunk one-time event – as I showed you from Scripture.

This doesn’t mean that JESUS needs to do anything else. It means that WE need to conform to HIS will and the will of the Father. HIS work is done – but unless we cooperate with that work – we cannot HOPE to be saved. This is why we read about enduring to the end in faith (Matt. 10:22, 24:13). This is the whole point about the parable of the Vine and Branches (John 15:1-17).

You can cherry-pick verses ALL day long to fit your man-made 16th century inventions – but the CONTEXT of Scripture shows that you can LOSE your security (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

The problem I see on this position is that the faith we abide in is not of ourselves but a fruit of the Holy Spirit, that's right we abide in His faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The problem I see on this position is that the faith we abide in is not of ourselves but a fruit of the Holy Spirit, that's right we abide in His faith.

To say that we have nothing to do with our faith is false and unbiblical.
Faith is our response to God’s grace. It’s our steadfastness and trust in God.

We cannot possess it without Him because it’ a gift– but it is ours nonetheless.

 

[Philip James]

Salvation is to be BORN AGAIN, and that is not a "process".

I think I might agree with you here..

Everyone who has been baptised into Christ has been saved.

And each will have to answer for what they did with that gift..
.
But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' 9 and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, to eat and drink and get drunk,

then that servant's master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour and will punish him severely and assign him a place with the unfaithful.

That servant who knew his master's will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely;

and the servant who was ignorant of his master's will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.

Peace be with you!

 

[justbyfaith]

If salvation is a gift that cannot be returned – why would God need us to be “co-workers” with Him to bring about the salvation of others??

If salvation is a gift that cannot be returned - why would God not need us to be co-workers with Him to bring about the salvation of others?

Are YOU saying that other people brought about YOUR salvation and NOT God alone.

Yes, that is what I am saying.

The following shows that ministers can save those to whom they preach:

Jde 1:23, And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15, And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16, But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Waiting on him]

To say that we have nothing to do with our faith is false and unbiblical.
Faith is our response to God’s grace. It’s our steadfastness and trust in God.

We cannot possess it without Him because it’ a gift– but it is ours nonetheless.

Ok, so here's just one of many to reconcile

Galatians 2:16 KJV
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

By who's faith?

 

[Waiting on him]

Romans 3:22,27 KJV
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Who's faith is this referring to?

 

[Waiting on him]

Galatians 5:22 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

See it's a package gift it's not something you have it's something you are given?

How can the Holy Spirit give you something you already posses?

 

[Waiting on him]

This is why He asked the disciples while in the tempest, where is your faith, the answer being they had none till the gifting of the Holy Spirit at pentecost.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ok, so here's just one of many to reconcile

Galatians 2:16 KJV
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

By who's faith?

This is the problem with the 21st century person reading the KJV, written in a form of English not used for centuries. Some Catholics have the same problem with the Douay-Rheims version

In virtually EVERY other version - including the New King James version, the wording is "faith IN Christ Jesus" - not "the faith OF Christ Jesus."
This verse is talking about OUR faith IN Christ.

New International Version
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

New Living Translation
Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

English Standard Version
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

New American Standard Bible
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

New King James Version
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Christian Standard Bible
and yet because we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus. This was so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Contemporary English Version
But we know that God accepts only those who have faith in Jesus Christ. No one can please God by simply obeying the Law. So we put our faith in Christ Jesus, and God accepted us because of our faith.

Good News Translation
Yet we know that a person is put right with God only through faith in Jesus Christ, never by doing what the Law requires. We, too, have believed in Christ Jesus in order to be put right with God through our faith in Christ, and not by doing what the Law requires. For no one is put right with God by doing what the Law requires.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If salvation is a gift that cannot be returned - why would God not need us to be co-workers with Him to bring about the salvation of others?

Yes, that is what I am saying.
The following shows that ministers can save those to whom they preach:

Jde 1:23, And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15, And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16, But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Sorry - but that's heresy.

ONLY God's grace can save you through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
People can plant seeds - but they CANNOT save you. And they can only plant those seeds because of God's grace.

 

[Waiting on him]

This is the problem with the 21st century person reading the KJV, written in a form of English not used for centuries. Some Catholics have the same problem with the Douay-Rheims version

In virtually EVERY other version - including the New King James version, the wording is "faith IN Christ Jesus" - not "the faith OF Christ Jesus."
This verse is talking about OUR faith IN Christ.

New International Version
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

New Living Translation
Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

English Standard Version
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

New American Standard Bible
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

New King James Version
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Christian Standard Bible
and yet because we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus. This was so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Contemporary English Version
But we know that God accepts only those who have faith in Jesus Christ. No one can please God by simply obeying the Law. So we put our faith in Christ Jesus, and God accepted us because of our faith.

Good News Translation
Yet we know that a person is put right with God only through faith in Jesus Christ, never by doing what the Law requires. We, too, have believed in Christ Jesus in order to be put right with God through our faith in Christ, and not by doing what the Law requires. For no one is put right with God by doing what the Law requires.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

So what do you believe that Scripture means where it's written that faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit?
Is this in your opinion faith that is a different faith from our own personal faith?

 

[justbyfaith]

Sorry - but that's heresy.

Nope. If anything has a biblical basis, it isn't heresy.

And I showed a biblical basis for what I was saying.

 

[Behold]

I think I might agree with you here..

Everyone who has been baptised into Christ has been saved.

"Baptized INTO Christ"..

This is a spiritual birth. This is to become "IN CHRIST"..... as our literal existence. This is why we are "seated in heavenly places IN Christ". This is why "as Christ IS< so are the BORN AGAIN, .. IN this world"...... This is to be "ONE" with God and Christ.
Where the confusion comes in is with the word "baptism".
As the secular understanding is always to not recognize the Spiritual. So, the carnal mind, or the "religious' understanding is that this mean "water".
It in fact does not. As its the Holy Spirit that BIRTHS or "makes alive"

 

[Behold]

Romans 3:22,27 KJV
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ

Who's faith is this referring to?

Hebrews 12:2

""Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith"""

Salvation is all of God.
He came here, Died as Christ on the Cross. This resolves our sin issue and our unrighteousness issue.
Then, once we give God our faith..>"justification BY Faith"...... God also perfects this as well.

What most Christians think, because thy have been very badly taught by terrible ministers, is that God starts their salvation and then they take it from there, and keep themselves "abiding" as justbyfaith falsely teaches, = IF they try hard and hold unto their faith, they can hopefully end up in heaven if they remember to keep repenting and confessing.
This type theology is JUNK. Its self righteous foolishness.
As that is the exactly NOT how God's Grace functions or is maintained.
Understand....Salvation is not God + our behavior after we are saved.
Salvation is God saving you and keeping you saved, even regarding perfecting your faith, as "Jesus is the FINISHER of YOUR Faith".

Coming into the LIGHT of this revelation of God's Grace, regarding how to perfectly understand that Salvation is a GIFT, that is started and completed by God, frees us from LEGALISM and the error of trying to do what God has already Completed.