Sanctified by the BLOOD

[BreadOfLife]

So what do you believe that Scripture means where it's written that faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit?
Is this in your opinion faith that is a different faith from our own personal faith?

Not sure I understand your question.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nope. If anything has a biblical basis, it isn't heresy.

And I showed a biblical basis for what I was saying.

No – it’s a misinterpretation of Scripture.
If we can save each other – the Christ is obsolete.

Ultimately – it is God’s grace that saves us through the atoning sacrifice of Christ - not ANYBODY or ANYTHING else.

 

[justbyfaith]

"Baptized INTO Christ"..

This is a spiritual birth. This is to become "IN CHRIST"..... as our literal existence. This is why we are "seated in heavenly places IN Christ". This is why "as Christ IS< so are the BORN AGAIN, .. IN this world"...... This is to be "ONE" with God and Christ.
Where the confusion comes in is with the word "baptism".
As the secular understanding is always to not recognize the Spiritual. So, the carnal mind, or the "religious' understanding is that this mean "water".
It in fact does not. As its the Holy Spirit that BIRTHS or "makes alive"

Consider what is written in the holy scriptures:

1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

What most Christians think, because thy have been very badly taught by terrible ministers, is that God starts their salvation and then they take it from there, and keep themselves "abiding" as justbyfaith falsely teaches, = IF they try hard and hold unto their faith, they can hopefully end up in heaven if they remember to keep repenting and confessing.

I do not teach that at all, let alone falsely teach it.

I teach that abiding is by faith; which is not of self-effort.

Of course, we do know that the anointing which abides in us teaches us to abide in Christ (1 John 2:27-28) and that if we truly abide (by staying connected to the vine), we will sin not (1 John 3:6).

However we do not abide by not sinning; we abide by faith. And not sinning is the result.

It is also true that a person can abide for ever more (1 John 2:17).

And if I am teaching falsely, how is it that I always back up my statements with holy scripture and @Behold never does? If one of us is teaching falsely, the one who is false would have an adversity to holy scripture being quoted because holy scripture would contradict the teaching of one who is teaching falsely. Just as Jesus confronted the devil with holy scripture and after three shots, the devil fled from the sharpness of the sword of the Spirit.

Also, there are two scriptures that I believe we should keep in mind when contemplating this issue:

1Pe 1:5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Jo 5:18, We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Understand....Salvation is not God + our behavior after we are saved.

No we are not saved through our behaviour. However our behaviour will be affected by genuine salvation.

No – it’s a misinterpretation of Scripture.
If we can save each other – the Christ is obsolete.

And you are misinterpreting my words. Of course we are saved through Christ's shed blood (and since Mary did not shed her blood for us, she also is not a co-redeemer); however ministers do "save" other people by preaching the gospel to them; so that they are saved through the preaching of the gospel message. If the gospel had not been preached, they would not have been saved. And therefore, the minister's preaching becomes integral to the salvation of the hearer.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you are misinterpreting my words. Of course we are saved through Christ's shed blood (and since Mary did not shed her blood for us, she also is not a co-redeemer); however ministers do "save" other people by preaching the gospel to them; so that they are saved through the preaching of the gospel message. If the gospel had not been preached, they would not have been saved. And therefore, the minister's preaching becomes integral to the salvation of the hearer.

Somebody who shares the gospel with another is simply an instrument.
They are not the CAUSE of that person’s salvation.

As for Mary – I don’t know why you even mentioned her – because I never did.
My guess is that you just wanted to insert an anti-Catholic slur to make your case seem “stronger”.

 

[justbyfaith]

Somebody who shares the gospel with another is simply an instrument.
They are not the CAUSE of that person’s salvation.

As for Mary – I don’t know why you even mentioned her – because I never did.
My guess is that you just wanted to insert an anti-Catholic slur to make your case seem “stronger”.

It was not an anti-Catholic slur....it was an anti-Catholicism slur. I made it because I know that you are Catholic (but that as one, you don't necessarily follow after the Catholic doctrine that Mary is co-redeemer); so I made the statement in order to deal with this false doctrine that is prevalent in the Catholic Church.

The verses that I also presented, do in fact indicate that we can save people by preaching the gospel to them.

If I throw a life-preserver to someone who is drowning, technically, they are saved by the life-preserver.

This does not mean that I did not save them by throwing it out to them.

The Cross and blood of Jesus is like a life-preserver that is thrown out to the sinner.

It is necessary that someone throw this life-preserver out to the sinner in order that they might lay hold of it...

And the person who does so is in some sense a saviour.

While Jesus is the only Saviour and there is no saviour besides Jehovah...

So those "saviours" (Obadiah 1:21) who throw the Saviour (the life-preserver) out to the sinner, cannot be outside of the body of Jehovah (Jesus Christ).

 

[BreadOfLife]

It was not an anti-Catholic slur....it was an anti-Catholicism slur. I made it because I know that you are Catholic (but that as one, you don't necessarily follow after the Catholic doctrine that Mary is co-redeemer); so I made the statement in order to deal with this false doctrine that is prevalent in the Catholic Church.

The verses that I also presented, do in fact indicate that we can save people by preaching the gospel to them.

If I throw a life-preserver to someone who is drowning, technically, they are saved by the life-preserver.

This does not mean that I did not save them by throwing it out to them.

The Cross and blood of Jesus is like a life-preserver that is thrown out to the sinner.

It is necessary that someone throw this life-preserver out to the sinner in order that they might lay hold of it...

And the person who does so is in some sense a saviour.

While Jesus is the only Saviour and there is no saviour besides Jehovah...

So those "saviours" (Obadiah 1:21) who throw the Saviour (the life-preserver) out to the sinner, cannot be outside of the body of Jehovah (Jesus Christ).

No – you give yourself too much credit.

You don’t get ANY credit for “saving” someone. It’s ALL done for the glory of God – BY God and FOR God. We’re just His instruments – we’re NOT the cause of salvation.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said, “Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

 

[justbyfaith]

No – you give yourself too much credit.

You don’t get ANY credit for “saving” someone. It’s ALL done for the glory of God – BY God and FOR God. We’re just His instruments – we’re NOT the cause of salvation.

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said, “Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

We are commanded as ministers to save people:

Jde 1:22, And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jde 1:23, And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

And therefore it is no heresy to say that a minister, in preaching the gospel, did "save" or at the very least help to save, the people who respond in faith to the gospel message as it is presented by the minister.

 

[justbyfaith]

Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[justbyfaith]

No doubt we are instruments in God's hands; that God uses to save sinners from inexplicable doom.

We can choose whether to be obedient or disobedient to the call to preach the gospel.

 

[Philip James]

As the secular understanding is always to not recognize the Spiritual. So, the carnal mind, or the "religious' understanding is that this mean "water".
It in fact does not. As its the Holy Spirit that BIRTHS or "makes alive"

I agree that many seem to dismiss the power of the Holy Spirit working in and through the sacrament...
Happily, their unbelief is immaterial...

Peace!

 

[BreadOfLife]

We are commanded as ministers to save people:

Jde 1:22, And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jde 1:23, And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

And therefore it is no heresy to say that a minister, in preaching the gospel, did "save" or at the very least help to save, the people who respond in faith to the gospel message as it is presented by the minister.

And if I can't make you understand that ALL of these verses are not about YOU saving anybody - but God USING you as an instrument - then there is nothing more to say.
You are stuck in the heretical belief that YOU can save people. You CAN'T.

Only the Grace of Almighty God through the atoning sacrifice of Christ saves people.
The verse you presented merely show the works that GOD prepared FOR us in advance to do (Eph. 2:10).

 

[justbyfaith]

Jude 1:23...

Jde 1:22, And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jde 1:23, And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

We are commanded here as ministers to save people.

The third time it shall do double damage (Ezekiel 21:14 (nkjv)).

Eze 21:14
“You therefore, son of man, prophesy,
And strike your hands together.
The third time let the sword do double damage.
It is the sword that slays,
The sword that slays the great men,
That enters their private chambers.

 

[justbyfaith]

Only the Grace of Almighty God through the atoning sacrifice of Christ saves people.

Yes, that is the life preserver.

The minister of the gospel saves people by throwing the life preserver out to the one who is drowning.

 

[Waiting on him]

Not sure I understand your question.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Scripture states that faith comes from the Holy Spirit. It seems your saying that the faith of Jesus is something that originates with you?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Scripture states that faith comes from the Holy Spirit. It seems your saying that the faith of Jesus is something that originates with you?

No – I never said that.
Go back and read my post carefully.

I stated explicitly that faith is a gift from GOD – but the fact that it is a gift – it is OURS nonetheless. What we DO with that faith is up to US. We can cooperate with the grace to have faith – or reject it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, that is the life preserver.

The minister of the gospel saves people by throwing the life preserver out to the one who is drowning.

A minister saves NOBODY.
God saves them.

He uses the minister as His instrument.

 

[Behold]

I agree that many seem to dismiss the power of the Holy Spirit working in and through the sacrament...
Happily, their unbelief is immaterial...

Is it a sin to make an idol out of the sacrament as you have done?
God, Christ, and none of the Apostles referred to it as the "Eucharist."

Its possible to take this sacrament and be confirmed, and end up in Hell.
Do you understand why?

 

[Behold]

The minister of the gospel saves people by throwing the life preserver out to the one who is drowning.

The life preserver does not save.
The minister does not save.
Faith does not save.

GOD SAVES.

The Gospel that is offered by ministers or by any situation is not the "savior"....Its only the offer that if accepted...God then SAVES You.

God is the Savior.

I understand that you wrongly believe that faith is the savior.
Its not.
God saves through Faith.
God alone is the Savior.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is it a sin to make an idol out of the sacrament as you have done?
God, Christ, and none of the Apostles referred to it as the "Eucharist."

Its possible to take this sacrament and be confirmed, and end up in Hell.
Do you understand why?

Of ALL of the arguments among Christians – the silliest one of all is the “That’s not explicitly mentioned in the Bible” argument. Would you like a list of things that you as a Protestant believe in that are NOT in the Bible – starting with the word “Bible” itself?

The word “Eucharist is not explicitly mentioned in Scripture doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a term that was used by the Early Church. We see in the writings of the 1st century Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius where he uses the terms “Eucharist” and “Catholic Church” in the same letter (Letter to the Smyrnaeans).

As for WHAT the Eucharist is – the Early Church believed and taught as Christ Himself did – that it is His Body and Blood (Luke 22:19–20; Matt. 26:26–28; Mark 14:22–24; 1 Cor. 11:23–25).
So – if it IS Christ – then it ISN’T an idol.

As for your final comment – yes, it IS possible to receive the Eucharist – and STILL be lost because Eternal Security is a false, man-made, 16th century invention . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

The life preserver does not save.
The minister does not save.
Faith does not save.

GOD SAVES.

The Gospel that is offered by ministers or by any situation is not the "savior"....Its only the offer that if accepted...God then SAVES You.

God is the Savior.

I understand that you wrongly believe that faith is the savior.
Its not.
God saves through Faith.
God alone is the Savior.

God is the life-preserver that is thrown to the one who is drowning by the minister.

So yes, God alone saves. He saves through the gospel of Jesus Christ which presents God to the sinner; and God uses the minister who is an effective tool in the hand of God to save the hearer of the gospel.

It can be said that "I struck the nail with the hammer" or that "the hammer struck the nail." Both statements would be accurate to describe what had happened.

So it can be said that "God used me to save the person" or that "I saved that person." Both are correct.

Because it is clear what is written in Jude 1:23, that we are commanded to save people, pulling them out of the fire and hating even the garment corrupted by the flesh.

And of course, I do not want to diminish that the means of salvation is the blood of Jesus Christ alone; through faith in Jesus and that blood.

So, in all reality, the blood of Jesus saves the person.

While the blood is an impersonal factor.

The persons that save the hearer of the gospel are the Lord who died for them and the minister who brings to them the gospel message.

'nuff said!

But, the current situation makes me think of 1 Corinthians 16:9.